Moderators: Deeeez Knicks, mpharris36, j4remi, NoLayupRule, HerSports85, GONYK, Jeff Van Gully, dakomish23
Knicksfan20 wrote:You guys have no idea how good Jack is going to be for Frank. He seems like a great mentor. We are lucky we have somebody like Jack to Help Frank.
Deeeez Knicks wrote:thebuzzardman wrote:Deeeez Knicks wrote:
Randle would fit, but don’t think he is one of our bigger needs and I would not want to pay him a big contract. It would almost compound our problem having too many bigs. We really need a good wing player and more young guards/wings. If we lock up Randle long term with a big contract, it would just leave less money to add quality wings/guards
In a vacuum where the Knicks didn't have to worry about his $ impacting the future, I guess he'd be good - if they dealt a big to get him. I don't see him as adding to a "big man glut" because the Knicks issues isn't too many bigs, but specifically too many bigs that are Centers and Centers only - Kanter, WHG, KOQ and Noah. None of those guys can play PF, at ALL. Now, that's fine, because KP can, but what the Knicks need is a PF off the bench who truly is a PF, who can play some defense, has some real height, and isn't garbage on offense. Look what the Knicks have to do if KP is out with injury, or who comes off the bench for him - LFT.
Backup PF is clearly a need.
The Knick obvious need is a SF. A playmaking SF is the obvious first choice, but picking 8-10, that chances of a playmaking SF being available are pretty slim. So, from there I move onto a SF who can defend, with wingspan, who can reliable hit outside shots.
I assume this is the target in the draft, so that's why I considered Randle as a potential backup PF target, but then Randle , with his contract coming up has to be viewed as a "last piece" because the Knicks would cap out and be over to resign him if they traded for him, and even if the Knicks land a quality SF in the draft, they still aren't that player and Randle away from being a complete team.
PF is a need, but I think I would prefer a PF/SF more then a PF/C if we are investing big…we have guys like that in Beasley and LT, but we could def use an upgrade over them. Not that we can get him, but someone like Kuzma would be perfect and I would prefer someone like that over a PF/C like Randle. I’d look to pay for a player like that if we are paying big and maybe just add another PF for cheap if needed.
Else, true PF’s are a dying breed anyway or they end up playing C like Randle and even KP. Teams def need players like that, but we already have one of the best players in the league at that position. True, we are kinda screwed when he is out but I don’t know if there is much we can do to fix that at this time. KP just brings so much production that can’t be replaced easily.
Deeeez Knicks wrote:thebuzzardman wrote:Deeeez Knicks wrote:
Randle would fit, but don’t think he is one of our bigger needs and I would not want to pay him a big contract. It would almost compound our problem having too many bigs. We really need a good wing player and more young guards/wings. If we lock up Randle long term with a big contract, it would just leave less money to add quality wings/guards
In a vacuum where the Knicks didn't have to worry about his $ impacting the future, I guess he'd be good - if they dealt a big to get him. I don't see him as adding to a "big man glut" because the Knicks issues isn't too many bigs, but specifically too many bigs that are Centers and Centers only - Kanter, WHG, KOQ and Noah. None of those guys can play PF, at ALL. Now, that's fine, because KP can, but what the Knicks need is a PF off the bench who truly is a PF, who can play some defense, has some real height, and isn't garbage on offense. Look what the Knicks have to do if KP is out with injury, or who comes off the bench for him - LFT.
Backup PF is clearly a need.
The Knick obvious need is a SF. A playmaking SF is the obvious first choice, but picking 8-10, that chances of a playmaking SF being available are pretty slim. So, from there I move onto a SF who can defend, with wingspan, who can reliable hit outside shots.
I assume this is the target in the draft, so that's why I considered Randle as a potential backup PF target, but then Randle , with his contract coming up has to be viewed as a "last piece" because the Knicks would cap out and be over to resign him if they traded for him, and even if the Knicks land a quality SF in the draft, they still aren't that player and Randle away from being a complete team.
PF is a need, but I think I would prefer a PF/SF more then a PF/C if we are investing big…we have guys like that in Beasley and LT, but we could def use an upgrade over them. Not that we can get him, but someone like Kuzma would be perfect and I would prefer someone like that over a PF/C like Randle. I’d look to pay for a player like that if we are paying big and maybe just add another PF for cheap if needed.
Else, true PF’s are a dying breed anyway or they end up playing C like Randle and even KP. Teams def need players like that, but we already have one of the best players in the league at that position. True, we are kinda screwed when he is out but I don’t know if there is much we can do to fix that at this time. KP just brings so much production that can’t be replaced easily.
mpharris36 wrote:Knicksfan20 wrote:You guys have no idea how good Jack is going to be for Frank. He seems like a great mentor. We are lucky we have somebody like Jack to Help Frank.
as long as his defense doesn't rub off on Frank...Jack makes Calderon look like a solid defender...
GONYK wrote:Spoiler:
I agree that we would be better off with a Marvin Williams type than a Julius Randle type.
GONYK wrote:mpharris36 wrote:Knicksfan20 wrote:You guys have no idea how good Jack is going to be for Frank. He seems like a great mentor. We are lucky we have somebody like Jack to Help Frank.
as long as his defense doesn't rub off on Frank...Jack makes Calderon look like a solid defender...
I don't think that's true.
I think Jack makes Jose Calderon look like Jarret Jack
mpharris36 wrote:GONYK wrote:mpharris36 wrote:
as long as his defense doesn't rub off on Frank...Jack makes Calderon look like a solid defender...
I don't think that's true.
I think Jack makes Jose Calderon look like Jarret Jack
there actually pretty similar. Jack is a more creative passed, both are atrocious defenders. But at least calderon took 3's...jack takes that horrendous mid range shot.
Jack's been fine, but the gigs up. He needs to go to the bench and start to relinquish minutes to baker even but I don't mind if he plays 15 mins as a backup point to slow the game down and get us into our spots. But Baker and Frank's defense is game changing. Baker got up into clarkson a few times and cooled him off after a hot start.
IAmTheBest wrote:Amsterdam wrote:IAmTheBest wrote:
Randle would be an excellent fit with porzingis. his defense is rock solid and he can switch onto any position and hold his own, defensively
I dont think the lakers would move him for hernangomez/koq + a 2nd round pick though. They will use him like dangelo russell most likely - to set up a situation where they can take on superstar players
we'd also have to pay him big bux after a year
Randle's best position is Center and not a need of ours. Why make a lateral trade with Willy or O'Quinn and a pick. I thought we were passed given up picks for non-starters?
Randle is very talented and a perfect fit with Porzingis. He is easily starter level material. The only reason he doesnt start is because Walton is incompetent when it comes to rotations. His best players - Randle, Clarkson, and Kuzma all come off the bench lol. In fact Randle is often out there closing games because of his defense.
I wouldnt trade Hernangomez + a pick for him, but I would easily pull the trigger on oquinn + a pick.
I watch a lot of Lakers games and acquiring randle is not a lateral move. His defensive versatility is reminiscent of Draymond Green (of course he's not on that level at the moment...but he just turned 23).
This defensive capability means we can play a lot more of small ball without sacrificing defense, which is perfect for KP.
He is also capable offensively - able to run the floor and attack the basket. Gives our team much needed athleticism.
Great motor and work ethic as well. First game in his pro career he broke is tibia paul george style and came back and prospered. That shows great willpower in the face of adversity. Not only that, he went from being a doughboy reminiscent of zac randolph to being shredded.
Randle is a great player imo and when he hits the market as a free agent he's going to get max contracts thrown at him. He's almost everything you want in a modern 4/5 player and it's hard to come across those.
GONYK wrote:mpharris36 wrote:GONYK wrote:
I don't think that's true.
I think Jack makes Jose Calderon look like Jarret Jack
there actually pretty similar. Jack is a more creative passed, both are atrocious defenders. But at least calderon took 3's...jack takes that horrendous mid range shot.
Jack's been fine, but the gigs up. He needs to go to the bench and start to relinquish minutes to baker even but I don't mind if he plays 15 mins as a backup point to slow the game down and get us into our spots. But Baker and Frank's defense is game changing. Baker got up into clarkson a few times and cooled him off after a hot start.
No argument from me. Hopefully the last 2 games are the start of the transition.
mpharris36 wrote:GONYK wrote:mpharris36 wrote:
there actually pretty similar. Jack is a more creative passed, both are atrocious defenders. But at least calderon took 3's...jack takes that horrendous mid range shot.
Jack's been fine, but the gigs up. He needs to go to the bench and start to relinquish minutes to baker even but I don't mind if he plays 15 mins as a backup point to slow the game down and get us into our spots. But Baker and Frank's defense is game changing. Baker got up into clarkson a few times and cooled him off after a hot start.
No argument from me. Hopefully the last 2 games are the start of the transition.
thats all i want. I heard jeff in the pre-game saying that jack still will be his starter for the foreseeable future...I hope last night games starts to change his mind because we are different team when we are getting stops. We can get out in transition and get easier buckets or transition 3's which are the best shots.
We went through a stretch of facing not so great guards so Jack was able to get by but when we play the dynamic guards he will continue to get exposed on the defensive side of the ball. I think Frank has proved if you can trust him late in a game, why not let him start so he can have better minute distribution instead of forcing frank to play large consecutive chunks of minutes instead of properly distributing them.
Amsterdam wrote:IAmTheBest wrote:Amsterdam wrote:
Randle's best position is Center and not a need of ours. Why make a lateral trade with Willy or O'Quinn and a pick. I thought we were passed given up picks for non-starters?
Randle is very talented and a perfect fit with Porzingis. He is easily starter level material. The only reason he doesnt start is because Walton is incompetent when it comes to rotations. His best players - Randle, Clarkson, and Kuzma all come off the bench lol. In fact Randle is often out there closing games because of his defense.
I wouldnt trade Hernangomez + a pick for him, but I would easily pull the trigger on oquinn + a pick.
I watch a lot of Lakers games and acquiring randle is not a lateral move. His defensive versatility is reminiscent of Draymond Green (of course he's not on that level at the moment...but he just turned 23).
This defensive capability means we can play a lot more of small ball without sacrificing defense, which is perfect for KP.
He is also capable offensively - able to run the floor and attack the basket. Gives our team much needed athleticism.
Great motor and work ethic as well. First game in his pro career he broke is tibia paul george style and came back and prospered. That shows great willpower in the face of adversity. Not only that, he went from being a doughboy reminiscent of zac randolph to being shredded.
Randle is a great player imo and when he hits the market as a free agent he's going to get max contracts thrown at him. He's almost everything you want in a modern 4/5 player and it's hard to come across those.
Randle is not an impact player and right now is not on Kanter's impact level. Would absolutely NOT trade ANY picks for him along with one of our young bigs.
GONYK wrote:Starting vs coming off the bench is way less important to me than overall minutes, finishing the game and time paired with KP.
We'll see how Jeff plays this, but it seems that if Frank is rolling, Jeff usually rides with him.
Triple C wrote:
j4remi wrote:GONYK wrote:Starting vs coming off the bench is way less important to me than overall minutes, finishing the game and time paired with KP.
We'll see how Jeff plays this, but it seems that if Frank is rolling, Jeff usually rides with him.
There felt like a pattern of early deficits going on. Not that I'd stack that right on Jack's shoulders because it has improved with lance over Beas, but I'd keep an eye out for that starting up again as competition improves. If we're having teams jump on us early, then shifting Frank to the starting unit over Jack would be the next change I gun for.
thebuzzardman wrote:So, what would it take for the Knicks to get Julius Randle from the Lakers, and would we want to, based on his ability but also that the Knicks would have to resign him.
KOQ and Chicago's 2nd?
WHG and Chicago's 2nd?
Knicks have a center glut, Lakers have a PG glut. I mean, it's not like the Lakers are dying for a C, but how long before Broke Lopez goes down with an injury, plus I know they have a young C to develop, but either of those guys would give them someone who would have some use for a few years.
I guess they could do better than that.
I'll have to rewatch the game - how is Randle on defense?
I just know that after a SF with athleticism and legit offensive skill, the Knicks next need is a young PF with some bounce who can defend and isn't a stiff on offense. I know Randle's shot isn't that great, but he'd be good next to KP where KP slides to C and Randle at PF. Unless his defense is bad. I've never thought it was, but looking for some input from guys who watch more Lakers games than me.