Markelle Fultz Discussion III: For Fultz and going forward (see 2017 draft thread for trade discussion)

the_process · Post #441 » by **the_process** » Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:40 pm

Bottom 5 CHI, ATL, PHX, SAC, DAL
Next 5 MEM, ORL, BKN, LAC, LAL

It is still, as it has always been, far more likely that the pick comes to Philly.

Bum Adebayo · Post #442 » by **Bum Adebayo** » Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:46 pm

I never liked ackson, never saw anything special in him, just a good athlete, decent handles but overrated defense, not a good frame and not a good wingspan. Also was older than most players in his draft.

Kobblehead · Post #443 » by **Kobblehead** » Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:18 pm

Josh Jackson is playing 80% of his minutes at F and playing off the ball. The Suns clearly don't know what they have in him.

He'll be fine in due time, just like some of the other high talent rookies that are struggling. These dudes aren't emotionally, mentally or physically ready to be professionals.

PLO · Post #444 » by **PLO** » Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:32 pm

Jackson should be playing off-ball, but he's not close to being NBA standard offensively mainly because he's a bad shooter. Without a serviceable shot he'll have a limited NBA career. He's been a better on-ball defender than what I thought TBH but all the predictions us nay-sayers had for him pre-draft have been borne out in his play overall. It seems a long time since many of the expert posters on here were fawning over him as "the best player in the draft" in the dedicated thread he had, page after page after page after page of notable sig-worthiness for crueler posters than I.

Kobblehead · Post #445 » by **Kobblehead** » Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:46 pm

PLO wrote:Jackson should be playing off-ball, but he's not close to being NBA standard offensively mainly because he's a bad shooter. Without a serviceable shot he'll have a limited NBA career. He's been a better on-ball defender than what I thought TBH but all the predictions us nay-sayers had for him pre-draft have been borne out in his play overall. It seems a long time since many of the expert posters on here were fawning over him as "the best player in the draft" in the dedicated thread he had, page after page after page after page of notable sig-worthiness for crueler posters than I.

I do not think draft takes can be validated or invalidated this soon.

Some guys are ahead of the curve because they're strong neck-up and/or landed in an enviroment that cultivates talent well. The others have the play catch-up.

JojoSlimbiid · Post #446 » by **JojoSlimbiid** » Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:48 pm

Josh Jackson has been playing the 2 since Booker went down. Haven't seen any magical improvement playing the 2.

PLO · Post #447 » by **PLO** » Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:56 pm

Kobblehead wrote:
PLO wrote:Jackson should be playing off-ball, but he's not close to being NBA standard offensively mainly because he's a bad shooter. Without a serviceable shot he'll have a limited NBA career. He's been a better on-ball defender than what I thought TBH but all the predictions us nay-sayers had for him pre-draft have been borne out in his play overall. It seems a long time since many of the expert posters on here were fawning over him as "the best player in the draft" in the dedicated thread he had, page after page after page after page of notable sig-worthiness for crueler posters than I.

I do not think draft takes can be validated or invalidated this soon.

Some guys are ahead of the curve because they're strong neck-up and/or landed in an enviroment that cultivates talent well. The others have the play catch-up.

Well I think what we can invalidate is some of the ridiculousness posted in that thread about Josh Jackson. Overall though I agree it is to early to say with a number of prospects. Jackson can certainly improve his NBA currency by lifting his shooting percentages. He's very erratic which can be put down to inexperience in the league. What is a worry is that he was a super senior and is closer in age to Ben Simmons than to those freshman in his own draft class, but that was always a worry as was the fact his apparent calling card as a defensive swiss knife was chimerical and he was more an over-hyped butter-on-bread type of implement.

ivysixer2000 · Post #448 » by **ivysixer2000** » Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:28 pm

PLO wrote:Jackson should be playing off-ball, but he's not close to being NBA standard offensively mainly because he's a bad shooter. Without a serviceable shot he'll have a limited NBA career. He's been a better on-ball defender than what I thought TBH but all the predictions us nay-sayers had for him pre-draft have been borne out in his play overall. It seems a long time since many of the expert posters on here were fawning over him as "the best player in the draft" in the dedicated thread he had, page after page after page after page of notable sig-worthiness for crueler posters than I.

Most just want to ignore all that and just tell us how much Fultz was a bad move. I'd rather have Fultz riding the pine than looking at Josh right now, but I do think Josh could develop into a player kinda like Jaylon has in his second year. Of course Jaylon has talent around him, Josh not so much. It is kinda funny though, we complain about not having shooters out there yet some wanted Ball or Josh, can't see how they would give Ben any space at all.

But now of course we have to be on the Tatum or Donovan 'shoot first ask questions later' Mitchell bandwagon. Prospects are just hard to pick really, and noone is right all the time. At the end of the day, I respect the work that is put in to research them but I don't see doing that much work if your not getting paid for it.

LloydFree · Post #449 » by **LloydFree** » Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:26 pm

Kobblehead wrote:Josh Jackson is playing 80% of his minutes at F and playing off the ball. The Suns clearly don't know what they have in him.

He'll be fine in due time, just like some of the other high talent rookies that are struggling. These dudes aren't emotionally, mentally or physically ready to be professionals.

Yeah, I don't know what the Suns are doing. Wasting time with Uliss getting starts at PG, like he's a long term solution. They should've put the ball in Jackson's hands and develop him to his strengths. Let him him learn at a faster pace. The Suns know they aren't going to win anyway. Playing Uliss isn't going to help them or build the other player's value.

Kobblehead · Post #450 » by **Kobblehead** » Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:31 pm

The Suns don't know they're doing either. They fired a coach 3 games into the season.

Jackson, Chriss and Bender are all struggling to develop. It took Devin Booker until this year to finally play above replacement level. It's just a bad enviroment for young players.

Post #451 » by **Sixerscan** » Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:34 pm

LloydFree wrote:
Kobblehead wrote:Josh Jackson is playing 80% of his minutes at F and playing off the ball. The Suns clearly don't know what they have in him.

He'll be fine in due time, just like some of the other high talent rookies that are struggling. These dudes aren't emotionally, mentally or physically ready to be professionals.

Yeah, I don't know what the Suns are doing. Wasting time with Uliss getting starts at PG, like he's a long term solution. They should've put the ball in Jackson's hands and develop him to his strengths. Let him him learn at a faster pace. The Suns know they aren't going to win anyway. Playing Uliss isn't going to help them or build the other player's value.

You want Jackson to play full on point guard?? Or just pair him with a less ball dominant pg?

LloydFree · Post #452 » by **LloydFree** » Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:50 pm

Sixerscan wrote:
LloydFree wrote:
Kobblehead wrote:Josh Jackson is playing 80% of his minutes at F and playing off the ball. The Suns clearly don't know what they have in him.

He'll be fine in due time, just like some of the other high talent rookies that are struggling. These dudes aren't emotionally, mentally or physically ready to be professionals.

Yeah, I don't know what the Suns are doing. Wasting time with Uliss getting starts at PG, like he's a long term solution. They should've put the ball in Jackson's hands and develop him to his strengths. Let him him learn at a faster pace. The Suns know they aren't going to win anyway. Playing Uliss isn't going to help them or build the other player's value.

You want Jackson to play full on point guard?? Or just pair him with a less ball dominant pg?

I'm saying run the offense thru him, for significant portions of the game. Similar to what the Bucks did with Giannis. They should be in the business of developing Jackson and Bender, not trying to squeeze 25 wins from starting Tyler Ulis.

Sasashi · Post #453 » by **Sasashi** » Wed Dec 13, 2017 11:04 pm

JojoSlimbiid wrote:

Read on Twitter

High level athleticism at work for the only rookie that I was told by realgm experts was going to be a net positive his first year.

We sure he doesn't have scapular muscle imbalance? Cause something looks wrong with him

that is coldddd :lol:

best player of the draft!!

Negrodamus · Post #454 » by **Negrodamus** » Wed Dec 13, 2017 11:19 pm

I guess it’s Jackson’s turn in the Fultz thread.

cksdayoff · Post #455 » by **cksdayoff** » Wed Dec 13, 2017 11:28 pm

Negrodamus wrote:I guess it’s Jackson’s turn in the Fultz thread.

might as well, 22 and some pages of crap

JojoSlimbiid · Post #456 » by **JojoSlimbiid** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:26 am

I like how there is nary a peep when people start talking about Tatum or Mitchell in this thread to demean and bash the pick but when we talk about some of the **** prospects all of the sudden it's a problem. #notthesameenergy

cksdayoff · Post #457 » by **cksdayoff** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:31 am

tatum and mitchell are solid players but they won't be stars in this league imo

Unbreakable99 · Post #458 » by **Unbreakable99** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:42 am

cksdayoff wrote:tatum and mitchell are solid players but they won't be stars in this league imo

Maybe. Maybe not but so far they look like they have a higher ceiling than Fultz. Fultz doesn’t have the athleticism of Mitchell. He never will either. Fultz may never shoot as well as Tatum. Tatum is a much better FT shooter. He is a better 3 point shooter so far. This is Tatum’s floor. He can go much higher.

ivysixer2000 · Post #459 » by **ivysixer2000** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:51 am

Unbreakable99 wrote:
cksdayoff wrote:tatum and mitchell are solid players but they won't be stars in this league imo

Maybe. Maybe not but so far they look like they have a higher ceiling than Fultz. Fultz doesn’t have the athleticism of Mitchell. He never will either. Fultz may never shoot as well as Tatum. Tatum is a much better FT shooter. He is a better 3 point shooter so far. This is Tatum’s floor. He can go much higher.

Fultz hasn't even played healthy in the NBA yet, how do you know what is ceiling is, crystal ball??

Handpicking Mitchell and Tatum is fun as I like them as players, but its not like someone could go back and do it again. Trade back, get the Kings to trade up for Fox per say, then pick Tatum at 5 cause the Celtics weren't really going to take him at 1. Then take Donovan 'shoot first ask questions later' Mitchell at 10. There is your perfect hindsight dream draft.

Then you wake up and realize you drank too much vodka last night.

Unbreakable99 · Post #460 » by **Unbreakable99** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:56 am

ivysixer2000 wrote:
Unbreakable99 wrote:
cksdayoff wrote:tatum and mitchell are solid players but they won't be stars in this league imo

Maybe. Maybe not but so far they look like they have a higher ceiling than Fultz. Fultz doesn’t have the athleticism of Mitchell. He never will either. Fultz may never shoot as well as Tatum. Tatum is a much better FT shooter. He is a better 3 point shooter so far. This is Tatum’s floor. He can go much higher.

Fultz hasn't even played healthy in the NBA yet, how do you know what is ceiling is, crystal ball??

Handpicking Mitchell and Tatum is fun as I like them as players, but its not like someone could go back and do it again. Trade back, get the Kings to trade up for Fox per say, then pick Tatum at 5 cause the Celtics weren't really going to take him at 1. Then take Donovan 'shoot first ask questions later' Mitchell at 10. There is your perfect hindsight dream draft.

Then you wake up and realize you drank too much vodka last night.

A GM easily could have drafted Mitchell in the top 6.