Harden is the best player in the NBA

[draftnightsuit]

LeBron James is still the best player in the NBA. He just doesn't give his 100% in regular season. He's saving his energy for playoff. He can do that because he is playing with two superstar/all-star most of his career. Compare to Harden which before this season had to give his 100% on offense for Rockets to win. This is why he slack off on defense and run out of energy in playoff. This is also same for CP3. There are many games he is great in the first 3rd quarter and then not much left in the 4th.

Lebron spent half of his career carrying horrible teams in his first stint in Cleveland. Meanwhile, Harden was draft onto a team that had Durant/Westbrook, then a Rockets team where he was 1A/1B with Dwight Howard. Now he’s playing alongside Chris Paul.

You got it backwards.

[Baski]

I'm a Spurs fan but i find it weird that Kawhi is being called better than Harden by like half of realgm even before he played a single game this season, while i haven't seen even a mention of IT in any top 10 or even top 15.
Just goes to show how little respect Harden and IT receive compared to other top players.

Harden is playing like the best player in the NBA. Is he the best player? Probably not, but he does have a good argument.

[MaxRider]

LeBron James is still the best player in the NBA. He just doesn't give his 100% in regular season. He's saving his energy for playoff. He can do that because he is playing with two superstar/all-star most of his career. Compare to Harden which before this season had to give his 100% on offense for Rockets to win. This is why he slack off on defense and run out of energy in playoff. This is also same for CP3. There are many games he is great in the first 3rd quarter and then not much left in the 4th.

Lebron spent half of his career carrying horrible teams in his first stint in Cleveland. Meanwhile, Harden was draft onto a team that had Durant/Westbrook, then a Rockets team where he was 1A/1B with Dwight Howard. Now he’s playing alongside Chris Paul.

You got it backwards.

Big Z and Mo Williams did make it to the all-star game playing with LeBron. Harden wasn't the first option when playing with Durant and Westbrook. He was the 6th man.

[MaxRider]

I'm a Spurs fan but i find it weird that Kawhi is being called better than Harden by like half of realgm even before he played a single game this season, while i haven't seen even a mention of IT in any top 10 or even top 15.
Just goes to show how little respect Harden and IT receive compared to other top players.

Harden is playing like the best player in the NBA. Is he the best player? Probably not, but he does have a good argument.

Harden and Rockets are most hated by fans.

[ken6199]

I'm a Spurs fan but i find it weird that Kawhi is being called better than Harden by like half of realgm even before he played a single game this season, while i haven't seen even a mention of IT in any top 10 or even top 15.
Just goes to show how little respect Harden and IT receive compared to other top players.

Harden is playing like the best player in the NBA. Is he the best player? Probably not, but he does have a good argument.

Harden and Rockets are most hated by fans.

Not as simple as hating.

It's a combination of various human nature.
- Last impression effect: people only choose to remember Manu's block on Harden, and Harden's record TO game in GS 14-15, or the Miami finals series, but forget everything else good he did in those post seasons
- Blindly holding on to the old cliche of "you are wrong until proven right". Harden can average 50/15/15 for the season leading Rockets to 82-0, and still there will be folks saying "until he proves it in the playoffs I don't buy his hype yap yap yap"
- Then, there is probably lot of hate on Harden's play, his "cheating" style. I've seen comments saying "if Harden never gets a foul call for the rest of his career I will be happy" - and that's only on RealGM, I bet some of those guys were truly hoping Harden snaps his ACL or something. What a twisted mindset.
- Some other smaller factors like personal dislikes of his appearance, lukewarm demeanor, etc

We've seen enough. Things happen for a reason, good or bad. I could be one of those guys if he wasn't on my team.

[MaxRider]

I'm a Spurs fan but i find it weird that Kawhi is being called better than Harden by like half of realgm even before he played a single game this season, while i haven't seen even a mention of IT in any top 10 or even top 15.
Just goes to show how little respect Harden and IT receive compared to other top players.

Harden is playing like the best player in the NBA. Is he the best player? Probably not, but he does have a good argument.

Harden and Rockets are most hated by fans.

Not as simple as hating.

It's a combination of various human nature.
- Last impression effect: people only choose to remember Manu's block on Harden, and Harden's record TO game in GS 14-15, or the Miami finals series, but forget everything else good he did in those post seasons
- Blindly holding on to the old cliche of "you are wrong until proven right". Harden can average 50/15/15 for the season leading Rockets to 82-0, and still there will be folks saying "until he proves it in the playoffs I don't buy his hype yap yap yap"
- Then, there is probably lot of hate on Harden's play, his "cheating" style. I've seen comments saying "if Harden never gets a foul call for the rest of his career I will be happy" - and that's only on RealGM, I bet some of those guys were truly hoping Harden snaps his ACL or something. What a twisted mindset.
- Some other smaller factors like personal dislikes of his appearance, lukewarm demeanor, etc

We've seen enough. Things happen for a reason, good or bad. I could be one of those guys if he wasn't on my team.

no ****
at least Rockets is trying to compete

[ken6199]

Plus the fact that Harden was so close to two MVPs, of course his fans, myself included, will have to defend him. There are homers in any fan bases, or a wrong choice of words (inevitably) in a reasonable take, those can all annoy neutral fans and turn them away from Harden. Then the homers see them as haters, and it's a bad circle.

Just like people condemning KD, you think the Warriors fans will sit there and say nothing? Then they start defending KD, it makes them even more annoying. Damn if you do, damn if you dont.

In a strange way, I always thought the Warriors fans and Houston fans should understand each other better. Do less pointless defending, let the ball do the talk, is the best way to shut up the critics. And In that regard, I think KD should learn some from Harden.

[ReginaldDwight]

Not big game James. Dude has to do it in the postseason before he is ahead of Lebron. Top 3 player for sure maybe the best offensive player right now but he has the tendency to not show up in big games IMO.

[AdagioPace]

There's a belief Harden played through Game 6 with a concussion, which is a more reasonable answer than he quit or fell under the non-existent pressure. Harden had a 40 point game in that series so it's not like he wasn't capable of scoring at will. There's never been a recorded instance of a lead ball handler/scorer playing a full playoff game with a concussion, but you can envision it'd look like Harden's Game 6.

whoa! what?
are you saying that going against the best defensive team in the league featuring one of the GOAT coach that has tried for the entire series to limit harden with multiple strategies,perfectioning the best strategy throughout the series, equals to a NON_EXISTENT PRESSURE????
that's actually the WORST playoff environment you could find for a bivalent offensive player like HArden!

I don't know if this is a bad attempt of discrediting the opponent or a bad attempt to find an alibi for HArden. I'd say both

Pressure is Game 7 of an NBA Finals.

Pressure is not playing in the second round at home against a Kawhi-less Spurs. Pressure is supposed to push you down and make you sweat. There would be a sigh of relief for any star player if you had to go up against a Kawhi-less Spurs on your home floor. That's not discrediting anybody, you just don't get pressured when you're the odds on favorite to win a game on your home floor against a team without their best player. San Antonio played great defense, but Harden was still able to drop an average of 30 on 50% shooting in Game 3, 4, and 5. He had more trouble with Roberson than San Antonio's switches.

ISO Harden was always going to be unstoppable. His average individual numbers were not affected but the impact he had on his teammates was affected.
Spurs were never going to stop him, they did a great job in making him uncomfortable though. this was reflected in the Rockets Ortg. Rockets went from 114 to 108 Ortg!! And that's not because Spurs contested Harden's teammates' shots better!

I remember for example vividly that the spurs were trying to force him to drive when there was the lenght of aldridge or gasol waiting for him, I rememebr Spurs trying to clog the passing lanes or swarm him. I remember the second part of game 5 where Pop put Leonard on HArden and he became passive.
In game 6 he was harrassed by simmons and green.

Also,the fact that the spurs weren't effective in stopping harden (as in "not allowing him to score") it doesn't mean HArden wasn't getting tired of the constant harrassment.
I think HArden collapsed in game 6 after an accumulation of stress,tiredness,frustration.

He wouldn't have collapsed vs ....the Nuggets! That's what I mean
A performance is always the result of a bidirectional process. How good/bad you are and how good/bad is the opponent. Always

[Splashin]

I'm a Spurs fan but i find it weird that Kawhi is being called better than Harden by like half of realgm even before he played a single game this season, while i haven't seen even a mention of IT in any top 10 or even top 15.
Just goes to show how little respect Harden and IT receive compared to other top players.

Harden is playing like the best player in the NBA. Is he the best player? Probably not, but he does have a good argument.

Likely because Defense is finally valued nearly as much as offense in this NBA era. KL has shown massive improvements on both ends, is Harden an elite defender? Nah.

[Rednation91]

I'm a Spurs fan but i find it weird that Kawhi is being called better than Harden by like half of realgm even before he played a single game this season, while i haven't seen even a mention of IT in any top 10 or even top 15.
Just goes to show how little respect Harden and IT receive compared to other top players.

Harden is playing like the best player in the NBA. Is he the best player? Probably not, but he does have a good argument.

Likely because Defense is finally valued nearly as much as offense in this NBA era. KL has shown massive improvements on both ends, is Harden an elite defender? Nah.

What? So does that mean kawhi is better than curry cus curry does not play ELITE DEFENSE?

[Splashin]

I'm a Spurs fan but i find it weird that Kawhi is being called better than Harden by like half of realgm even before he played a single game this season, while i haven't seen even a mention of IT in any top 10 or even top 15.
Just goes to show how little respect Harden and IT receive compared to other top players.

Harden is playing like the best player in the NBA. Is he the best player? Probably not, but he does have a good argument.

Likely because Defense is finally valued nearly as much as offense in this NBA era. KL has shown massive improvements on both ends, is Harden an elite defender? Nah.

What? So does that mean kawhi is better than curry cus curry does not play ELITE DEFENSE?

No, just throwing a guess as to why KL is so respected and why Harden is still looked at as a novelty.

[Baski]

I'm a Spurs fan but i find it weird that Kawhi is being called better than Harden by like half of realgm even before he played a single game this season, while i haven't seen even a mention of IT in any top 10 or even top 15.
Just goes to show how little respect Harden and IT receive compared to other top players.

Harden is playing like the best player in the NBA. Is he the best player? Probably not, but he does have a good argument.

Likely because Defense is finally valued nearly as much as offense in this NBA era. KL has shown massive improvements on both ends, is Harden an elite defender? Nah.

Sure you could make that argument for last year, but Kawhi just played his first game of this season, while Harden has been tearing the league up since game 1 of the season, and you have basically everyone talking about "LeBron, Durant, Curry, Kawhi are better". Makes no sense to me. Thomas, who is in the exact same situation as Kawhi, was for sure a top 10 player last year, and people here even forget he exists outside of Kyrie/Cavs threads. Any mention of him has nothing to do with his ranking as a player but rather how his return would help the Cavs and LeBron.
Curry isn't an elite defender either but noone has any problem calling him better than Kawhi.

[Splashin]

I'm a Spurs fan but i find it weird that Kawhi is being called better than Harden by like half of realgm even before he played a single game this season, while i haven't seen even a mention of IT in any top 10 or even top 15.
Just goes to show how little respect Harden and IT receive compared to other top players.

Harden is playing like the best player in the NBA. Is he the best player? Probably not, but he does have a good argument.

Likely because Defense is finally valued nearly as much as offense in this NBA era. KL has shown massive improvements on both ends, is Harden an elite defender? Nah.

Sure you could make that argument for last year, but Kawhi just played his first game of this season, while Harden has been tearing the league up since game 1 of the season, and you have basically everyone talking about "LeBron, Durant, Curry, Kawhi are better". Makes no sense to me. Thomas, who is in the exact same situation as Kawhi, was for sure a top 10 player last year, and people here even forget he exists outside of Kyrie/Cavs threads. Any mention of him has nothing to do with his ranking as a player but rather how his return would help the Cavs and LeBron.
Curry isn't an elite defender either but noone has any problem calling him better than Kawhi.

Curry has rings and mvps, I guess there is your simple answer. I don't look at players season by season only, I'm guessing a lot of fans don't. Cumulative fails in the playoffs matter, I know that's boring to hear for rocket fans but until he beats great teams in the playoffs, no one is going to call Harden the best.

[Rednation91]

Likely because Defense is finally valued nearly as much as offense in this NBA era. KL has shown massive improvements on both ends, is Harden an elite defender? Nah.

Sure you could make that argument for last year, but Kawhi just played his first game of this season, while Harden has been tearing the league up since game 1 of the season, and you have basically everyone talking about "LeBron, Durant, Curry, Kawhi are better". Makes no sense to me. Thomas, who is in the exact same situation as Kawhi, was for sure a top 10 player last year, and people here even forget he exists outside of Kyrie/Cavs threads. Any mention of him has nothing to do with his ranking as a player but rather how his return would help the Cavs and LeBron.
Curry isn't an elite defender either but noone has any problem calling him better than Kawhi.

Curry has rings and mvps, I guess there is your simple answer. I don't look at players season by season only, I'm guessing a lot of fans don't. Cumulative fails in the playoffs matter, I know that's boring to hear for rocket fans but until he beats great teams in the playoffs, no one is going to call Harden the best.

Yea it'll be like this til they get to wcf I guess? It sucks but it is what it is. Though Im pretty confident he will prove people wrong this yr with all the help from cp3.

[Baski]

Curry has rings and mvps, I guess there is your simple answer. I don't look at players season by season only, I'm guessing a lot of fans don't. Cumulative fails in the playoffs matter, I know that's boring to hear for rocket fans but until he beats great teams in the playoffs, no one is going to call Harden the best.

This is my take as well. Curry has led his team to championships as well as put up the stats and that puts him up there.
I don't think Harden is the best player in the NBA, but calling him better than Kawhi shouldn't be the stretch some guys on here are making it out to be. Kawhi has played one game, fresh from an injury, and he was being annointed as better than Harden even before he played. That's pretty bizarre. I keep bringing up Isaiah Thomas because his situation is exactly the same as Kawhi's, and everytime he is brought up, it always comes with a qualifier of "If he comes back the same as he was, or even 90%, the Cavs will be so much better". There is a clear reluctance to acknowlegde IT's quality as a player this year (for fear of overrating him if it turns out he comes back worse), and rightfully so, because he is out with an injury and hasn't played a single game. Kawhi on the other hand is being given the benefit of the doubt like this injury has affected him in no way at all, and he is coming back as a top 4 player and specifically better than this Harden for sure.
I find it weird, considering how similar the two's situations are.

[ReturnofMVP3]

Give him the mvp, finals mvp, and championship this year. I don't think any of those are out of question. I think Harden (and CP) could lead the rockets past the warriors in a grueling 7 game series and crush the Cavs.

[scrabbarista]

Even as an apologist for Harden as the '15 and '17 MVP, I would not put him in the discussion of game's best player. (The MVP is a regular season award.)

1. Lebron
2. Steph
3. Durant (but you could put Harden here)
4. Harden (but you could put Kawhi here)
5. Kawhi

I feel pretty strongly about that order. If the playoffs go the way the regular season has gone so far, then yes, Harden will be the game's best player.

[ken6199]

Here is the thing. When people rank players, what do they look? Talent of course, physical durability? Bball IQ? Obviously. Heart? Most would, but some might not. Leadership quality? Personal charisma? Popularity? Marketability? Depending on your own checkboxes, you will have quite a different view when comparing players. LeBron vs whoever, sure, no doubt. But when it comes to Harden vs Kawhi, it can get very tricky.

How much do you attribute Kawhi's rise to stardom to Pop, the Spurs organization, then himself? How much weight do you give Kawhi for his championship, FMVP, DPOY? Do you consider it 100% personal achievement, or team success? LeBron has proven that he can lead a group of dumpster fire players to big success with almost zero coaching help in a badly run organization, can Kawhi do that? Curry, Harden, Lebron, can all play the PG, can Kawhi do that? Like another poster said, Kawhi even without playing a single game, he enters the league as a top 4 player, that benefit of the doubt, does he deserve it? Or you prefer to put more weight on someone, something that's happening right in front of your eyes? How do you compare Giannis and Kawhi then? Giannis is currently playing with a group of mediocre players with a clueless coach putting up 30ppg on 31PER 61% TS, Kawhi's career best PER was 27.6. There are just tons and tons of ways you can slide it.

My take is, with everything combined, Lebron is the absolute #1, then you have Curry/KD/Harden/Kawhi as the next 4 with no specific order. I wouldn't include Harden before this season, but due to the past couple of months, he has every right to be up there. However you rank those 4 should be all acceptable depending on your own criteria of "better". At this point I think it's pretty clear that Westbrook is a half tier below those top 5, that's for certain.

[spicy6]

-_-