PG: Can't stop, won't stop

[3noD]

Seems Paxson build another Gordon-Hinrich-Deng team. And Niko is doing his best impression of 6'10 Ben Gordon... And now he will again hope for #1 with 1.7% chance.

Or maybe he's building a Steph-Klay-Draymond team, and we just don't know it yet. No one thought the Warriors would be where they are today in Steph's first or second year, when it looked like he might not even have a career with all his ankle issues.

You just don't know.

That’s the right analogy. Good but not great young talent playing within a fast paced system.


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[3noD]

Portis and Holiday may be the lowest bball IQ pairing in the league. You want to tank just play them 25 mpg together. Niko, Lauri, and Lavine combined couldn't overcome that. Throw Zip in there with them for 20 of the minutes... tank accomplished.

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Portis made some really smart plays tonight. Made good decisions, some nice passes. One in particular to Lopez in the post, would have made John Stockton proud. But someone gets a label, and it's easy to just keep repeating that....

Portis has been a good team player and routinely made the smart basketball decisions this year. Not sure what that person has been watching this season.

Portis could be a Horford type big. His versatility fits today’s game.


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[JimmyJammer]

Our 26yr old power forward just shredded one of the best defenses in the league with extreme efficiency, but some are complaining he should be traded. Isn't that a bitch? We are too spoiled around here. What's not to like about Niko? At 6ft10, he is a match-up nightmare because he can post you up, he can step outside, he can put it on the floor, he is a solid defender and he loves Chicago. This is the Niko we have been waiting to see over the past three years. He worked his ass off during the offseason to get where he is at, looking all confident and swagged up. Let's embrace it, goddamn it!

[Repeat 3-peat]

It would be our luck if Niko finally breaks out after trading Jimmy lol.

[The Force.]

Our 26yr old power forward just shredded one of the best defenses in the league with extreme efficiency, but some are complaining he should be traded. Isn't that a bitch? We are too spoiled around here. What's not to like about Niko? At 6ft10, he is a match-up nightmare because he can post you up, he can step outside, he can put it on the floor, he is a solid defender and he loves Chicago. This is the Niko we have been waiting to see over the past three years. He worked his ass off during the offseason to get where he is at, looking all confidenft and swagged up. Let's embrace it, goddamn it!

Pump the breaks my man. It's Niko we're talking about so a 3 game sample size means nothing.

With that said, if he does actually ball out consistently it will be a wonderful problem to have. I'd still rather trade him for a low lottery pick if the opportunity presents itself.

[mtron32]

Winning 4 straight isn't common at all among a worst in the league type team.

It's not common, but it's more of a combination of Mirotic and some young players getting confidence and struggling teams.

Charlotte's lost 7 of their last 10.
New York is mediocre.
Boston played without Kyrie.
Utah's lost 4 in a row.

The Bulls are on pace for 21 wins now, which is 1 off the worst record in the league of last season.

I'm good with that, I never want to be Early 90's Mavericks bad. We need SOME "W"s

[MetalFingaz]

We need to find a way to lose a lot AND keep Niko. The simple answer is "develop" Felicio. Trade Robin and give Cris 46mpg.

[ArizonaBullsFan]

Winning 4 straight isn't common at all among a worst in the league type team.

It's not common, but it's more of a combination of Mirotic and some young players getting confidence and struggling teams.

Charlotte's lost 7 of their last 10.
New York is mediocre.
Boston played without Kyrie.
Utah's lost 4 in a row.

The Bulls are on pace for 21 wins now, which is 1 off the worst record in the league of last season.

All true, so in the game thread, exactly how much did you have us beating them by tonight.... just kidding bro

Charlotte sucks, but that's what good teams do, beat bad teams

Knicks are above .500 and the 6 seed

I know with Kyrie out you had us beating Boston lol, but seriously even without Kyrie, that was a history-making win.

It was the first time in NBA history a sub-.200 beat a over-.800 team by more than 20 points.

We are 8 points away from being 8-1 over the last 9. 1, 1, 2 and 4 point losses.

Our 2 best players before the season by a large margin were Niko and Zach.

Without them 3-20 of course.

With Niko 4-0, and Zach will be back soon.

Yes I know, it's only 4 games (but really 9), but at one point it was only 4 games 7 games 11 games for Dunn.

It's only 4 games for Niko, but who the hell missed the first 23 games and steps right in with:

25.5 Min
19.5 Pts
5.8 Reb
0.8 TO
0.5 Blk
0.5 Stl
57.1% FG
52.2% 3's (5.8 att)
3.8 fta
94.6 Def Rtg (#1 on team, #3 is RoLo 104.3)
7.6 Net Rtg (#1 on team, #3 is RoLo/Portis -5.2)
69.4 eFG% (#1 on team, Felicio is #2)
.701 TS% (#1 on team, Felicio is #2)
101.21 Pace (#1 on team)
+/- 4.3 (#2 on team)

And we're 6-9 when Nwaba plays, 4-3 since he came back from the ankle injury

For the season:

+/- 6.2 (#1 on team)
Def Rtg 99.9 (#2 on team)
Net Rtg +5.4
57.7 eFG% (#3 on team)
.608 TS% (#3 on team)
The only "+" guys on a -8.2 team

PIE:
Niko 17.4
Bobby 13.9
Lauri 11.4
Nwaba 11.3
Dunn 9.9
Grant 9.8
RoLo 8.7
Valentine 8.4

We are doing this with KIDS for the most part (old man Niko is 26, Nwaba 25, nobody else over 23 - except the soon-to-be-gone RoLo)

Our team PIE is 44.0

What is PIE?
It is a simple metric that gives an excellent indication of performance at both the team and player level. It’s a major improvement to our EFF Rating. Notably 2 things changed: (1) We included Personal Fouls, (2) We added a denominator. We feel the key here is the denominator because it acts as an "automatic equalizer". Using the denominator, we find there is no need to consider the "PACE" of the statistics that are being analyzed. In its simplest terms, PIE shows what % of game events did that player or team achieve. The stats being analyzed are your traditional basketball statistics (PTS, REB, AST, TOV, etc..) A team that achieves more than 50% is likely to be a winning team. A player that achieves more than 10% is likely to be better than the average player. A high PIE % is highly correlated to winning. In fact, a team’s PIE rating and a team’s winning percentage correlate at an R square of .908 which indicates a "strong" correlation. We’ve introduced this statistic because we feel it incorporates a bit of defense into the equation. When a team misses a shot, all 5 players on the other team’s PIE rating goes up.

http://stats.nba.com/team/1610612741/players-advanced/?sort=PIE&dir=1

[SimonFish]

People understandably like Nwaba, but that **** makes no sense either. Why are we signing a guy to a 1 year deal?

For goodness sake tack a team option on the end.

we claimed him off the waiver so there wasn't a choice.

[pduh01]

Yeah....tell me there is no concern about the tank..

Plenty of basketball games to lose we still in December if this was say mid January through February then there is a concern.

I think you guys are missing the point to the reason why we have been winning or losing to begin with.

When we started the season we had No Niko, No Portis, No Lavine, No Dunn then went a 12 game stretch of No Nwaba.

Thats going to make you lose a ton of games.

The difference between us and teams like Atlanta, Dallas etc, is that we are getting healthier and actually improving our play. Those 5 names I mentioned 4 of them back, are pushing guys like Felicio, Pondexter, Zipser, whomever bench guy into very limited or non existent roles. Which obviously makes our team much better.

Like I said before, this team hardly looks like worst team overall but rather more like the Knicks, Lakers, Hornets etc Still lottery team, but in the 7-12 variety. People have blinders on if they cant see that.

We have been playing very well for 2 weeks now.

The teams that we have been playing well for the last two weeks was against teams that are mediocre, or bad teams well most of them. We haven't played good teams for a while well except the Celtics but they were playing without their best player. We got our ass kick by the Warriors, and Cavs not to long ago. There is a rough tough stretch of the schedule coming up. Is it somewhat surprising we beat those mediocre or bad teams kinda but I am not to worry about it not yet.

We are still on track of the worse record of the tam. If the winning streak continue for a long stretch then I will be worried. If going to rebuild then I want to see a certain players how they progress, and develop but at the same time I want to at least to be competitive. That is what they are doing right now sure they are on a little four game winning streak.

Also plus the man, the myth, the legend, the man who have the hair, and have all the dance moves will help the tank even further should be back very soon I am talking about CAMERON PAYNE!

[SimonFish]

i say we keep Niko and start with a Niko/Lauri frontcourt in the long term.

draft doncic or porter (porter is better as he may probably miss his first season allow us to tank through 18-19 too).

Dunn
Lavine
Doncic or Porter
Niko
Lauri

Championshipsssss.

[pduh01]

I am going to hold my judgment regarding Niko, fool me once shame on me, fool me twice double shame on me, you not going to fool me the third time! Something like that so I am going to hold, and save my judgment until I see more enough games regarding Niko so far, so good kinda reminded me of the rookie Niko except a better version of Niko.

[ArizonaBullsFan]

Even with the 4 game win streak, the Bulls still have the 2nd worst record in the league. A little bit of progression was due after being on pace for 10 wins at one point.

I’d take 10 wins and getting a superstar over 35 wins and getting a role player.

I'm guessing maybe a 5% chance tops of getting a generational talent, a true superstar.

You'll take 10 wins, meaning greatest odds are we'd get the 4th pick.

And even if we get #1 or #2, 20 straight drafts either #1 or #2 is a bust. Not always blatant busts, like Darko or Bargnani, but certainly busts for having gone top-2.

Including non-busts like Rose, Bogut, Tyson, Kenyon Martin, Brand, Mike Bibby, Antonio McDyess...

"Superstars" over the last 20 years at #1 or #2? The other 13 guys:

Dipo
AD
Kyrie
Wall
Blake
KD
Aldridge
Howard
LeBron
Yao
Duncan
Iverson
Kidd

How many generational superstars? 5 of those guys have rings.

And there's almost certainly no superstar in this draft. Or there would be a clear #1 pick.

How many of those generational talents weren't blatant, obvious, #1 overall picks?

[Rerisen]

I'm guessing maybe a 5% chance tops of getting a generational talent, a true superstar.

The odds are indeed bad, but still that's what you blow it up to max your chances for. You don't nuke a playoff team with a star in his prime, just to spend 3-4 years building back the the exact same style capped team, except with a likely lesser lead player.

We're only going to get 1 chance at this, maybe 2 if lucky. And odds are there will be a franchise player, or more than 1, in the next draft. Most years do have 1 or 2. Have to be in position to pick them outright, and not hope all the teams ahead of you mis-scout and let some miracle ticket drop to you.

[GimmeDat]

i say we keep Niko and start with a Niko/Lauri frontcourt in the long term.

draft doncic or porter (porter is better as he may probably miss his first season allow us to tank through 18-19 too).

Dunn
Lavine
Doncic or Porter
Niko
Lauri

Championshipsssss.

I'm not sure that that's the starting lineup we have in the long term, but I can definitely see us trading RoLo and just rolling with that front-court for the rest of the season. In the long term, Niko would be a great 3rd big to have.

[ArizonaBullsFan]

They're 1 game ahead of getting the 6th pick. And Zach Lavine hasn't played a game.

LaVine is going to be rusty and likely on a minutes restricton. It doesn't seem likely that he'll affect winning right away.

Obviously not as rusty, but Niko was pretty rusty too, he had 5 preseason games since April 28.

Niko played 1,841 minutes from opening night 2016 (plus 5 preseason games before missing 3 pre and 23 regular season games) until his first game this regular season.

Zach had played zero minutes since February 3rd.

Zach played 1,749 minutes from opening night 2016 until that day.

I'm not sure he'll be any rustier than Niko, and probably not by very much.

The minutes restriction is real, but Niko has only played 25.5 minutes since his return. As careful as they are being already with Zach, IMHO the restrictions won't last very long and won't be all that severe.

Obviously the difference is that Zach is coming off a leg injury instead of a face injury, but he's been back working out for what, at least 2 months. Maybe longer.

[ZOMG]

when lauri returns, he should not start. unless it's at center next to niko.

And so it begins. Yanking Lauri around to accommodate Mirotic. Anyway, from those two it’s clearly Niko who belongs at center.

We’re officially living in bizarro world. Four game win streak on the back of Niko Mirotic playing hero ball AND openly gloating about it to the media. Made more horrible by the fact that even knowledgeable Bulls fans are cheerleading this crap.

Somebody shoot me.

Here’s a few facts:

1) We don’t need to ”develop” Niko. He’s a veteran, a known commodity (for better and worse) and is only out to get his. Niko ’bout Niko.

2) The way this is going, there’s no freaking way he’ll agree to be traded. He loves being the hero. Read his interviews.

3) We absolutely cannot pay him like a future long term piece. Not at 27, not after an inconsistent career.

[TheCly]

What if they beat the Bucks in Milwaukee next game for 5 straight? What then?

I think it ends there. Who guards Giannis? Hoilday? Nwaba is probably our best bet, but he gives up 6 inches. Well, stranger things have happened, but that one would be a stretch.

Niko will guard him.

[NikosTheGoat]

when lauri returns, he should not start. unless it's at center next to niko.

And so it begins. Yanking Lauri around to accommodate Mirotic. Anyway, from those two it’s clearly Niko who belongs at center.

We’re officially living in bizarro world. Four game win streak on the back of Niko Mirotic playing hero ball AND openly gloating about it to the media. Made more horrible by the fact that even knowledgeable Bulls fans are cheerleading this crap.

Somebody shoot me.

Here’s a few facts:

1) We don’t need to ”develop” Niko. He’s a veteran, a known commodity (for better and worse) and is only out to get his. Niko ’bout Niko.

2) The way this is going, there’s no freaking way he’ll agree to be traded. He loves being the hero. Read his interviews.

3) We absolutely cannot pay him like a future long term piece. Not at 27, not after an inconsistent career.

what's lauri done to deserve the starting spot? be drafted in the lottery? certainly his play hasn't warranted it. he's entitled nothing. he should earn his spot like everybody else.

a known commodity? apparently not, considering how wrong people's perceptions of his game are. like y'all are acting like it's a coincidence that the bulls are undefeated against some pretty good teams since he's returned. loves being the hero? out to get his? how do you know these things? it sure doesn't come from watching basketball games. niko actually passes the ball and plays within the offense. he's also the best scorer on this team, far and away. he was last year too, but nobody passed him the ball and hoiberg doesn't run plays for him for some reason.

also, don't call your opinions facts.


ps: i don't get this age stuff, i touched on it in a different thread. how long do you expect the bulls to be bad? 10 seasons? niko is probably entering his prime this season. a prime that will probably last for a while, considering his game is reliant upon footwork and shooting, and now he finally has an NBA body. that stuff doesn't go away the second you turn 30.

[ArizonaBullsFan]

I'm guessing maybe a 5% chance tops of getting a generational talent, a true superstar.

The odds are indeed bad, but still that's what you blow it up to max your chances for. You don't nuke a playoff team with a star in his prime, just to spend 3-4 years building back the the exact same style capped team, except with a likely lesser lead player.

We're only going to get 1 chance at this, maybe 2 if lucky. And odds are there will be a franchise player, or more than 1, in the next draft. Most years do have 1 or 2. Have to be in position to pick them outright, and not hope all the teams ahead of you mis-scout and let some miracle ticket drop to you.

I'll give you that on average, but as each year passes and draftees get younger and younger (so harder and harder to read, who the hell knows how a teenager is going to grow up?), more and more superstars are coming late lottery, non-lottery, 2nd round.

Right now, the best players in last year's draft are Mitchell at 13, Kuzma low 1st round and Lauri at 7.

We had a "playoff team with a star in his prime" but he's 28 now, he had maybe 3-4 years of prime left. And that's my old man math, the majority of people here say 26-30 is the current prime.

1/2 our roster was anywhere from slightly underrated to pretty underrated to downright "they're a bust". when the season started, Dunn, Lauri, Grant, Portis, Niko, Valentine, Nwaba...

People are going to start calling me crazy, but there is no more tank. Es no mas. We're trying for the playoffs now, as we should. Shooting for an All-Star with our NBA-high cap space this summer. I'll be here to take my ridicule if I'm wrong, but I'll dish out patting myself on the back to an equal level of how much I'm ridiculed over the next 4 months.

We took a shot, found out our young players are pretty decent and still with upside/lots of upside. We started with 2 top-7 picks and 5 lottery picks from the last 4 drafts (plus Niko, who in redrafts goes much higher than 23). Portis fell from average of 16 in the mocks I found, so we got him at 22. He was pretty close to a "bust" when the season started, certainly useless and not needed to many here, and now he's 20+ PER and .570 TS% after missing the first 1/3 of the regular season.

GarPax aren't stupid, they aren't going to give away a bunch of good players for a prayer at a top-3 superstar when it's just as likely this drafts superstar comes from the bottom half of the lottery. I have Donovan Mitchell backing me up 100% lol. (For "current 2017 draftee looking most like a future superstar). And then spend the next 3-4 years hoping to get guys as good as the ones they gave away.