PG: Can't stop, won't stop

[ArizonaBullsFan]

You cannot look at how this team is playing and say their likely record should be projected on our full season record.

Niko and Portis were both out to start the year, Dunn clearly is progressing, and LaVine is back soon.

Sure you can, unless you think the Bulls are going to keep facing struggling teams or teams without their star players at home.

I'm glad that the Bulls have strung together some wins, because it's a positive for development and you're not going to lose every single game. The young players look more confident, which is a huge plus. But, I don't see this continuing. Next 6:

@Milwaukee, Philadelphia, Orlando, @Cleveland, @Boston, @Milwaukee

If they go 4-2 or better during that stretch, maybe I'll think differently about it.

Maybe? Maybe?

It's all good, I can see where you're at now. Good for you, bro.

Nobody saw us winning the last 4, or losing the 4 before that (minus CLE) by 1, 1, 2 and 4.

The Kyrie BS is just a joke, nobody has us winning without Kyrie, if it's such a meaningless win, why didn't a bunch of people say "oh, we got this one in historic fashion, Kyrie is out"?

Where are all the people who had us winning this one, since the Jazz are struggling so bad? Bueller? Bueller?

[ArizonaBullsFan]

We are going to lose games this month, most likely the very next game . We aren't going to continue streaking if that's what you're afraid of.

We're not going to be a bottom 5 team, that's all I said.

And I'm saying it's way too early to make that type of prediction. All it takes is trading one or two pieces and it's quick downward spiral.

The bottom 5 teams last season had 20, 24, 26, 28 and 29 wins. And right now we are at 7 wins. Take out Niko, Robin, Bobby or anything combination of players, you take way any depth and the losses start piling up again.

My stance is, you can panic and trade players of value to secure a bottom 3 record, with no assurance you'll get a top 2 pick depending on the odds, or you can be smart, build some of the value of the players you intend to trade, perhaps get an additional first round pick in this upcoming draft or future picks, while also giving yourself enough time to steer the team back to tank and get a top pick. Because say we do only get the no.3 pick with a bottom 3 record, if we have that additional pick we can move, the possibilities are there to make something happen come draft time.

Putting your eggs all in one basket is a silly thing to do. Even when Hinkie was tanking, he was smart and tried to get as many assets from deals as he could, we need to do the same, simply losing games isn't a smart move.

Like playing without Lavine and Lauri??

[ArizonaBullsFan]

Perceptions are comical.

This board during the game: we have a shot, the Jazz are playing like garbage.

The Jazz announcers during the game: The Bulls are playing very well lately, not one hint of "our team (the Jazz) is struggling tonight".

[the ultimates]

I'll just leave these two links here.
https://basketball.realgm.com/analysis/246435/Grading-The-Deal-Wolves-Acquire-Jimmy-Butler-From-Bulls-In-Lopsided-Trade
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1581665&start=1600#start_here

Start at the first page of the second link and be entertained.

[RedBulls23]

At this point I'm really starting to wonder how the team would have done last year if they never signed Wade?

I know we make jokes about March Niko, but it can't be a coincidence that when ever he plays in this kind of role, he seems to excel, and that coincided with Wade being out last year.

[ArizonaBullsFan]

What if they keep getting better? What if Dunn actually redeems his value as the #5 pick?... What if Lauri shows he was even better than the #7th pick in his draft? What if Lavine looks like a high lotto pick and the real deal when he comes back? What if this is the real Niko and plays like a high lottery pick from here on out? What if Nwaba just keeps doing what he's doing?

What if the Bulls win more than expected, get to around 26 wins with 20 games left and finished the season on like a 15-5 run with a .500 record and squeaked into the playoffs. Then won in the 1st round. How would you feel about that team with say the 13th pick in next years draft? Vs. one of worst teams in league and the 5th pick?

Amazing post. Sorry I'm too lazy to go back and +1 it.

You left out "more cap space this summer than any other team in a stacked FA class".

And let me add, the difference is that you almost always know what you're getting with a free agent. At the top of the NBA Draft in the late 2010s...

[ArizonaBullsFan]

If we finish this season and don't get a lottery pick. Disastrous. Time to pull some trades.

Are you saying we will make the playoffs?

Finish the season in the playoffs, and Gar gets his 2nd Executive of the Year, maybe unanimously.

Certainly proves himself 10x the GM Thibs is so far (though it's early for Thibs, of course)

Because us in the playoffs would mean Gar beat Thibs up in the trade worse than Bobby did to Niko.

[RedBulls23]

If we finish this season and don't get a lottery pick. Disastrous. Time to pull some trades.

Are you saying we will make the playoffs?

Finish the season in the playoffs, and Gar gets his 2nd Executive of the Year, maybe unanimously.

Certainly proves himself 10x the GM Thibs is so far (though it's early for Thibs, of course)

Because us in the playoffs would mean Gar beat Thibs up in the trade worse than Bobby did to Niko.

Gar?

By all accounts Pax has taken back full rein back, which is why Jimmy was traded in the first place.

[Louri]

Markkanen said that he decided himself to sit this one. He had good feeling at the morning and was sure to play but felt a bit stiff at the warm-up. He couldn't move as good as he wanted and he felt that he can't help team. This time back spasm started at monday morning when he got up from bed. He said it's same thing he has had before, but doesn't think it's serious. It feels good without contact.

[ArizonaBullsFan]

Both things can, and likely are true. That the Bulls caught a fortunate stretch, but are also now a better team than the first month or so.

And going forward as I mentioned the other day, teams will likely rest more players vs us down the stretch, or maybe even along the way.

That much is clear. The Bulls are a better team than they were a few weeks ago and they've had lucky circumstances during a three-game homestand + the Charlotte game.

It's also possible that injuries will happen to the Bulls and players will start struggling again. It's also possible that star players will sit, but those teams will be at home instead of on the road. There's a lot of factors. It would be a mistake to assume that this is the same quality of team the rest of the way.

I'm not saying we are a .500 team or something crazy.

But if no changes are made, LaVine comes back and is at least better than Valentine/Holiday (prob likely) and we make no moves, hard to see this team finishing bottom 3.

Lavine could have just rested after his injury, foregoing surgery, come back tomorrow and be better than Chuck. And better than Val right now, he still has upside.

[RedBulls23]

Dunn's lack of finishing at the rim continues to be preplexing, but it's good to see the rest of his game continue to grow.

In the end, volume scoring won't be needed from him. Just keep working on that spot up 3, and becoming more of a pure PG.

[ArizonaBullsFan]

After tonight, we're done with 13 of our 30 games against the West.

The rest of the way, we play 17 vs the West and 38 against the East.

We are 6-8 against the East.

We're going to reach my 32-win scenario from before the season.

Without a bunch of injuries and talent giveaways (the latter won't happen), we'll do it easily.

[ArizonaBullsFan]

It's inherently flawed to trade for 3 roster players and then also announce at the press conference that your plan is to build through the draft.

How is it flawed? Dunn was the 5th pick overall the year before. Markkanen was the 7th pick this year. They acquired three players still on their rookie deals. "Building through the draft" is just code for "Our team is inexperienced as hell and we expect to have a top pick because of it."

The rebuild officially started with us grabbing a #5, #7 and #13 pick, all on rookie deals.

We have 2 other lottery picks on the team, on rookie deals, a 19 and 22 picks on rookie deals, Niko just off his rookie deal...

Isn't that the definition of building through the draft?

Just because 95% of this board had 95% of those guys branded as busts, doesn't make it true.

As folks are seeing more and more, game by game.

And we STILL don't have the alleged best player.

[ArizonaBullsFan]

Oh please. Right after the trade every one was saying the Bulls got trash back. Now you are saying Dunn and Markkanen are too good for the tank?

This board will be fun if LaVine comes back lighting it up.

Again, I said the same thing at the time. That the ideal trade for Jimmy would have been one of Boston's top picks, or any deal centered around the best consolidated asset you could get. Not three swings for singles and doubles.

The Bulls don't need or want to be good right now if they are smart.

Yeah, too bad we got Lavine, Dunn and Lauri instead of Boston's #1 pick last summer.

Think where we'd be if we had Fultz instead of the Jimmy Boys right now? At least 95% of this board would be happy, we would suck worse than the Washington Generals.

[ArizonaBullsFan]

I know people want to say well hey the kids are developing, but sorry none of them look like elite talents so far

That's the thing, those of you (and there are plenty) who aren't watching the games, just the box scores, have no clue how much Dunn has improved over the last month.

That's why a very few of us kept saying that Dunn was getting much better even when the stats didn't show are 100% unsurprised with what's happening now.

[ArizonaBullsFan]

I swear to God if we are winning Lauri and Lavine. One of them better become superstars. Cause goal was to get high pick and get one. And now that's out the window.

The thing is, those top 4 "superstars" in Draft 2018 will be lucky if they are playing as well as Lauri is so far.

Those guys are going to be 20 next year, yeah Dunn is 23 but he missed most of 2 college seasons, he has the experience of a 21-year old.

And got zero development as a rookie thanks to Thibs.

[ArizonaBullsFan]

The way these guys are playing, you’d almost think the Bulls FO team were above average at evaluating talent...

Maybe they wanted this. I feel we will get into Miami heat situation from last year and then year after underperform....

Who played the most minutes for the Heat last season? And how old were they last year?

Here's their top 10:

Whiteside 27
Dragic 30
Tyler Johnson 24
James Johnson 29
McGruder 25
Richardson 23
Ellington 29
Waiters 25
Babbitt 27
Reed 26

They are all a year older this year.

How were the Heat supposed to improve?

Winslow missed most of the season, but he's not that good.
11.3 PER, .490 TS%

That's his numbers this season. He's 21, one year younger than Lavine, how much upside can he have? And Zach has never had a season that bad.

They drafted Adebayo, who even with Whiteside missing half their games, has played 1/2 as many minutes as Olynyk. 301 all season.

The rest of that team no upside, hell many are on the downside or getting close to the top of the hill.

We are so far from the Heat, it's not even worth mentioning them at all.

Our old guy is Niko, he's 26. RoLo has been OK at best, give me Lauri/Niko/Bobby over RoLo and whichever 2 of those 2 you choose. Chuck is 28, and his minutes are going waaaaay down here soon when Zach comes back.

Valentine is old at 24, he'd be one of the 4 or 5 youngest on the Heat roster.

No Niko and no Zach has probably limited us to 35 wins, only 6 less than the Heat got last year. And our guys are on average like 4-5 younger than they had last season.

[Louri]

I don't watch that much NBA but is it same in every NBA team, that so called playmaker takes all of his shots from isolation? Dunn had like 10 shots where no-one in whole team touched the ball. I know best PG's in league do that but Dunn is not one of them. In third Q, other possessions were lazy rolls with Lopez. Teammates were just standing in corners. That ball hogging is one of the reasons why guards who have ball in their hands look better at their rookie season. Bigs don't have that much impact, if team doesn't play sets to them.

[ArizonaBullsFan]

Niko didn't play well alongside Jimmy. None of those guys did. Mirotic in particular plays well inside of a fluid fast paced offense. During his tenure as The Guy, Butler didn't raise up those around him.

Butler was good for dribbling down the clock and pass it to you to protect his shooting numbers.

You cannot blame this on Jimmy. These players obviously put in work over the summer. Actually, maybe we have Jimmy to thank for that. He showed that dedicated nonstop selfimprovement can produce results

They put in work over the summer, just like every summer.

Every current and former NBA player in the history of the world will tell you, hard work is absolutely necessary, but you only get better in actual by playing in actual games.

Just like everyone here at their job, you can go to school all you want, study hard, get continuing education every summer, blah blah blah.

But you will be soooooooooooooooooooooo much better during your 5th year in your chosen profession than your 1st and 2nd, it'll blow you away.

From looking at numbers this year, which I never did before because we weren't rebuilding, it's about 2000-2500 minutes in the NBA, you start getting comfortable. A BIT.

Do a little research, I'm betting the overwhelming majority of players are 50-100% better in minutes 2000-2500 thru 4000-5000 than they were their first 2000-2500 minutes.

MJ was amazing as a rookie, playing like 3100 minutes. But look how much better even HE got the next 6000 minutes.

Experience. You whippersnappers who won't stay off my lawn have no clue how vital it is, and anyone here over 40 will back me up 110%.

[ArizonaBullsFan]

“It seems like March, but it’s not,” Mirotic joked.

Did he say that after tonight's game? He said the exact same thing after the Boston game.