PG: Can't stop, won't stop

[ArizonaBullsFan]

when lauri returns, he should not start. unless it's at center next to niko. rolo is the odd man out here

Couldn't agree more.

Give me Lauri and Niko and Bobby for 32 minutes each. Any minutes they can't handle, Felicio.

And reason for Niko to start is...?

Wasn't sure if you were talking to me or Niko.

The reason to start Niko is he and Lauri are our 2 best frontcourt players.

Personally, I actually could have agreed more with Niko, because he said "Lauri at C next to Niko", and me I'd start Niko at C and Lauri at PF.

That's pretty ticky tac thought, as long as those 2 are starting, I'm happy.

Unless we get a defensive center who is really good, then I'd bring Niko off the bench.

[Onibuh]

aim big and hope you have your guys. Give Projects the playing time over Holiday.

This is all with Lavine out and Markkanen not drawing Attention. Niko is legit, he is out of the shadow and the best Player on the Team and #1 Option. Maybe this role helps him to become a Player like that every night.

[ArizonaBullsFan]

If this were a traditional draft with one headliner, then sure. But, there could potentially be anywhere from 3-4 players in the running for #1 overall. The odds are thrown out of the window in that scenario.

Draft narratives are almost always bull. This year is no exception.

The odds are very much still in place.

You do realize the Warriors were a team of mid lottery picks right. Durant who signed last year was is the only top 5 pick on that roster.

Lebron, Durants, and great bigs are always top 2 picks. I honestly do not see any Durants or Lebrons. The 7'0 footer Anton is the only guy that intrigues me that much in his draft.

Yeah, I have some pretty disturbing numbers for the "We have to tank until we get a superstar" people:

Steph at 21: 16.3 PER, .568 TS%
Zach at 21: 14.6 PER, .576 TS%

Yes folks, at age 21, Zach was more efficient on offense than Steph.

'Nuff said.

[Ice Man]

Steph at 21: 16.3 PER, .568 TS%
Zach at 21: 14.6 PER, .576 TS%

Yes folks, at age 21, Zach was more efficient on offense than Steph.

'Nuff said.

Zach did have a very good TS% for a young guy last year. Didn't do much else very well, but that's something on which we can build. Why I preferred getting him to Wiggins. I don't see much Steph in him, though.

[DASMACKDOWN]

I think what is different about the resurgence is that its not coming off the back of one person. We are winning and improving off the shared backs of several players.

Which is why I think if we only traded Lopez or Niko or Portis, it wont really plunge us at all.

But if there was one person who really changes the balance of tanking or not, is Kris Dunn.

He is the one true difference maker position wise mainly due to the fact of his replacements.

We have seen Jerian as starting PG and its pretty much a disaster most of the time. Thank would tank us regardless of who else we have on the team.

[NZB2323]

Even with the 4 game win streak, the Bulls still have the 2nd worst record in the league. A little bit of progression was due after being on pace for 10 wins at one point.

I’d take 10 wins and getting a superstar over 35 wins and getting a role player.

I'm guessing maybe a 5% chance tops of getting a generational talent, a true superstar.

You'll take 10 wins, meaning greatest odds are we'd get the 4th pick.

And even if we get #1 or #2, 20 straight drafts either #1 or #2 is a bust. Not always blatant busts, like Darko or Bargnani, but certainly busts for having gone top-2.

Including non-busts like Rose, Bogut, Tyson, Kenyon Martin, Brand, Mike Bibby, Antonio McDyess...

"Superstars" over the last 20 years at #1 or #2? The other 13 guys:

Dipo
AD
Kyrie
Wall
Blake
KD
Aldridge
Howard
LeBron
Yao
Duncan
Iverson
Kidd

How many generational superstars? 5 of those guys have rings.

And there's almost certainly no superstar in this draft. Or there would be a clear #1 pick.

How many of those generational talents weren't blatant, obvious, #1 overall picks?

How many of those guys were blatant #1 picks in December? Also, how is the fact that this draft could be like 2003 and have multiple stars a bad thing? Do you want Lebron, Wade, or Kirk Hinrich?

KD vs. Oden was an argument.
Rose vs. Beasley was an argument.
Lebron vs. Melo vs. Darko was an argument.

This is the last year where tanking odds really benefit the worst team, it’a a great draft, and if Lavine comes back soon we could end up out of the top 5.

[ArizonaBullsFan]

Steph at 21: 16.3 PER, .568 TS%
Zach at 21: 14.6 PER, .576 TS%

Yes folks, at age 21, Zach was more efficient on offense than Steph.

'Nuff said.

Zach did have a very good TS% for a young guy last year. Didn't do much else very well, but that's something on which we can build. Why I preferred getting him to Wiggins. I don't see much Steph in him, though.

Me either, not at all. Just pointing out that Steph is known for his efficiency on offense, and at the same age Zach was better.

And that Steph was a shooter and not much more at Zach's age, nobody had him even making an All-Star team really. Nothing said "Future MVP"

Apparently Zach came into the league with no PG skills. He worked on them but i still think it' his biggest weakness on that end.

He also (allegedly) can't defend, but neither could Steph at 21.

Too many people only look at the numbers, they either don't watch enough games or don't have a scouting eye for the game.
Not that I'm special, but I started scouting future opponents my Junior year in HS, I was the SA For Advanced Stats, when I was the only person we knew of doing advanced stats in all of western Indiana.

[Chitownbulls]

If we get pick 5, 6, 7 or later.....we failed miserably.


The draft is in Chicago! The league will give us a top pick, we just need to suck wtf!

[ArizonaBullsFan]

Also, how is the fact that this draft could be like 2003 and have multiple stars a bad thing? Do you want Lebron, Wade, or Kirk Hinrich?

KD vs. Oden was an argument.
Rose vs. Beasley was an argument.
Lebron vs. Melo vs. Darko was an argument.

This is the last year where tanking odds really benefit the worst team, it’a a great draft, and if Lavine comes back soon we could end up out of the top 5.

Every draft could be like 2003, so non-contenders should tank every year just in case?

Multiple stars, like 2011:

1- Kyrie
2- Derrick Williams
3- Kanter
4- Tristan
5- Jonas
6- Jan Vesely
7- Biyambo
8- Kemba
15- Kawhi
30- Jimmy
60- Not Zeke Thomas

I'm sure the Lakers are glad they picked #2 next year and got Lonzo instead of picking #13 and getting Donovan, right?

Too bad we had to pick 7 and get Lauri, instead of #1 and getting Fultz. Or #2 for Ball.

[ArizonaBullsFan]

If we get pick 5, 6, 7 or later.....we failed miserably.


The draft is in Chicago! The league will give us a top pick, we just need to suck wtf!

Yeah, I know in 2011, there were some teams that are glad they got top 7 instead of 8 or 15 or 30 or 60...

Multiple stars, like 2011:

1- Kyrie
2- Derrick Williams
3- Kanter
4- Tristan
5- Jonas
6- Jan Vesely
7- Biyambo
8- Kemba
15- Kawhi
30- Jimmy
60- Not Zeke Thomas

[JohnnyTapwater]

Draft narratives are almost always bull. This year is no exception.

The odds are very much still in place.

You do realize the Warriors were a team of mid lottery picks right. Durant who signed last year was is the only top 5 pick on that roster.

Lebron, Durants, and great bigs are always top 2 picks. I honestly do not see any Durants or Lebrons. The 7'0 footer Anton is the only guy that intrigues me that much in his draft.

Yeah, I have some pretty disturbing numbers for the "We have to tank until we get a superstar" people:

Steph at 21: 16.3 PER, .568 TS%
Zach at 21: 14.6 PER, .576 TS%

Yes folks, at age 21, Zach was more efficient on offense than Steph.

'Nuff said.

So the numbers are saying we have a superstar right under our nose?!!!

happy, happy, joy, joy.

[ArizonaBullsFan]

You do realize the Warriors were a team of mid lottery picks right. Durant who signed last year was is the only top 5 pick on that roster.

Lebron, Durants, and great bigs are always top 2 picks. I honestly do not see any Durants or Lebrons. The 7'0 footer Anton is the only guy that intrigues me that much in his draft.

Yeah, I have some pretty disturbing numbers for the "We have to tank until we get a superstar" people:

Steph at 21: 16.3 PER, .568 TS%
Zach at 21: 14.6 PER, .576 TS%

Yes folks, at age 21, Zach was more efficient on offense than Steph.

'Nuff said.

So the numbers are saying we have a superstar right under our nose?!!!

happy, happy, joy, joy.

A more efficient scorer than Steph at 21, so I see no reason why it isn't POSSIBLE!!

Steph at 21 was a lousy defender, now he's decent, no reason Zach can't get there.

[Ice Man]

[quote="ArizonaBullsFan"[/quote]

I can't believe how bad the #2 picks have been. Of all those selections, KD was the only one good enough to be a 1st option for a title contender. A team could have drafted for 10 straight years in the #2 position and never come away with a superstar.

[Jvaughn]

So, does Niko start over Lauri?

Of course. Her is the better player... for now.

Absolutely not. Lauri goes right back to the starting lineup. The goal is to develop the young core guys. If we were trying to win more games, that would be a different story. Niko will still get plenty of minutes off the bench.

[Chitownbulls]

If we get pick 5, 6, 7 or later.....we failed miserably.


The draft is in Chicago! The league will give us a top pick, we just need to suck wtf!

Yeah, I know in 2011, there were some teams that are glad they got top 7 instead of 8 or 15 or 30 or 60...

Multiple stars, like 2011:

1- Kyrie
2- Derrick Williams
3- Kanter
4- Tristan
5- Jonas
6- Jan Vesely
7- Biyambo
8- Kemba
15- Kawhi
30- Jimmy
60- Not Zeke Thomas

Im not trusting GarPax to find the gems. Dont forget, these are the same guys that literally wasted draft picks on Erik Murphy, Marques Teague, Tony Snell, an Cameron Beartoes etc...

[Ice Man]

Absolutely not. Lauri goes right back to the starting lineup. The goal is to develop the young core guys.

If that is the policy, then Lauri and Niko should start, with RoLo watching. But I rather think Fred will start the guys that he thinks will give the team the best chance of winning, which means RoLo and Niko, if Niko keeps playing like this.

[ArizonaBullsFan]

I can't believe how bad the #2 picks have been. Of all those selections, KD was the only one good enough to be a 1st option for a title contender. A team could have drafted for 10 straight years in the #2 position and never come away with a superstar.

If that isn't Exhibit A for not tanking, you shouldn't be a lawyer, or serve on jury duty.

And very few of the #1 overall picks are leading a team to a title.

And if people aren't aware, that's the last 20 drafts in a row (starting with 2013, all of those guys are off their rookie deals. 2014 draft are on the last year of their rookie deal right now.

[ArizonaBullsFan]

If we get pick 5, 6, 7 or later.....we failed miserably.


The draft is in Chicago! The league will give us a top pick, we just need to suck wtf!

Yeah, I know in 2011, there were some teams that are glad they got top 7 instead of 8 or 15 or 30 or 60...

Multiple stars, like 2011:

1- Kyrie
2- Derrick Williams
3- Kanter
4- Tristan
5- Jonas
6- Jan Vesely
7- Biyambo
8- Kemba
15- Kawhi
30- Jimmy
60- Not Zeke Thomas

Im not trusting GarPax to find the gems. Dont forget, these are the same guys that literally wasted draft picks on Erik Murphy, Marques Teague, Tony Snell, an Cameron Beartoes etc...

Sometimes it just doesn't pay to change the foe settings to see if the foe was just having a bad day when you added foe.

Me: Here's a list of late draft gems
(List includes All-NBA Jimmy Butler, taken #30 by GarPax)

Foe: I'm not trusting GarPax to find gems

It's not just me, is it?

[MC3]

So, does Niko start over Lauri?

Of course. Her is the better player... for now.

Absolutely not. Lauri goes right back to the starting lineup. The goal is to develop the young core guys. If we were trying to win more games, that would be a different story. Niko will still get plenty of minutes off the bench.

This. If Bulls bench Lauri I have no reason to watch this franchise anymore. They can all go to hell.

[Jvaughn]

Absolutely not. Lauri goes right back to the starting lineup. The goal is to develop the young core guys.

If that is the policy, then Lauri and Niko should start, with RoLo watching.

RoLo should be traded, but that's besides the point. I don't think putting Lauri at the 5 defending players too strong for him is best for his development. He'll be in constant foul trouble planted to the bench which in turn will damper his development more.

But I rather think Fred will start the guys that he thinks will give the team the best chance of winning, which means RoLo and Niko, if Niko keeps playing like this.

If Fred thinks his goal is to win as many games as possible, and not to develop our young core, then he's more clueless than I thought. And in turn he'll be sealing his own fate.

He can stick around and lead the tank as long as our youngsters are showing growth (ie Dunn's improvement). If he becomes the coach who leads his team to the late lottery every year, he can take his act back to college.