Pippen on First Take about Jordan vs Lebron

ChiCityHoops34 · Post #41 » by **ChiCityHoops34** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:44 pm

I'm sorry but Lebron's performance against the Mavs in the 2011 finals make this not even a conversation for me.

Greed · Post #42 » by **Greed** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:44 pm

LeBron vs Jordan is a good debate. Statistically and as far as championships and such I still favor Jordan. His peak was the greatest ever, and his level of play during the 1st 3peat is above reproach. He was THAT good

LeBron has this absolutely mind boggling longevity though. At this point, he should've been declining quite a bit, but he's still able to churn out seasons comparable to any ATG. That's unbelievable and cannot be discounted in these discussions.

They both have different effects on their teams and require different roles to maximize their effectiveness. I feel that Jordan is more portable and a higher ceiling raiser, while LeBron can do more with less and is thus a better floor raiser.

You absolutely can't go wrong with either player. However, Jordans offensive and defensive intensity and skill are what I'd prefer to have on my team. So I'm rocking with him

Legacy wise, Jordans basically won and accomplished everything in the game (At every level unless I'm mistaken) except what, coach of the year?

Cavsfansince84 · Post #43 » by **Cavsfansince84** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:45 pm

Freighttrain wrote:I hate that they don't even have the decency to let Scottie fully talk. They're japping at him like he's some fan who's never seen MJ in his prime. Makes me sick.

They act as though either of their opinions matters even 1/10th to the people watching as much as Pippen's does. Honestly SAS always comes off as though he truly believes that his opinions on everything are the most informed and correct opinions of anyone on the planet. Even when discussing MJ with Scottie Pippen. As soon as he opens his mouth I always want to hit the mute button.

sophie23 · Post #44 » by **sophie23** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:47 pm

MJ and it is not f close at this moment.

He just go 6/6 in The finals. His scoring ability was unmatched.
This Guy just resigned from basketball, took vacation, came back and win z 3x like it was nothing. It was epic.
Maybe Lebron is The King, and hail to the king, but mj is God.

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711takeover · Post #45 » by **711takeover** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:48 pm

Cavsfansince84 wrote:
Freighttrain wrote:I hate that they don't even have the decency to let Scottie fully talk. They're japping at him like he's some fan who's never seen MJ in his prime. Makes me sick.

They act as though either of their opinions matters even 1/10th to the people watching as Pippen's does. Honestly SAS always comes off as though he truly believes that his opinions on everything are the most informed and correct opinions of anyone on the planet. Even when discussing MJ with Scottie Pippen.

Scottie said what he wanted to. He said statistically LeBron is better all around but he'll take MJ. That's the same as saying Westbrook is statistically the best point guard in the league but you won't take him as the best PG. Also, Scottie said MJ would kill in this era with the pace and defense. I fail to see where he Scottie didn't fully talk.

bringinhinkie · Post #46 » by **bringinhinkie** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:49 pm

Benedict_Boozer wrote:The argument will end the same every time. MJ fans will point to his 6 rings and unblemished Finals record, and cite things like "closing" ability. LBJ fans will point to his numbers, longevity, overall dominance on the court. Rinse and repeat.

Both are great, both very different players in terms of style, both right up there in the all time top 5-10 players no matter your personal bias.

jordan had a killer instinct that the league will never see again.. it's more than "closing ability"

as someone who saw both their primes -- you wanna say lebron is the 2nd best of all time, (too young for magic), but go for it.. but no way in a million years do I take him over jordan

jordan had a level that we haven't seen since.. if you are too young, dig up the tapes.. not the highlights, entire games

it is hard to imagine someone being better than lebron, lebron is that off the charts insane at basketball... but he ain't Mike .. he just isn't

kowboy · Post #47 » by **kowboy** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:54 pm

Jordan had the better legacy (muh ringz), but LeBron is the better player (muh statz).

That's as close as I believe we can make it.

Greed · Post #48 » by **Greed** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:54 pm

Just watched the videos

I love them lol. Especially the reactions after Scottie says he surpassed him in filling the stat sheet haha. Very entertaining though I agree they're talking to Scottie like he just wasn't aware of Jordans game

bringinhinkie · Post #49 » by **bringinhinkie** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:56 pm

ckmcnutt wrote:Jordan had the better legacy (muh ringz), but LeBron is the better player (muh statz).

That's as close as I believe we can make it.

rings dont define legacy

stats certainly don't define the better player

yesh · Post #50 » by **yesh** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:57 pm

711takeover wrote:
Lauri_Legend wrote:
Master Ze wrote:It's more than just rings; we're talking skill, competition, era. What good is leading your team to the NBA finals if you don't win?

Are we really gonna crown Lebron GOAT with 3 rings under his belt on 2 teams? Jordan had 2 three-peats in one decade, you can't tell me Lebron's achievement is better than that.

Being the better player and being the better winner is two different debates. There's a thin line, but there is one.

Jordan is the better winner. 6/6 in the finals. Impressive. Amazing scorer.

But like how Scottie pointed out, Lebron just does more on the court. He's more all around. He's a better all around player which defines being the better player. You can be an amazing all around player but not win as many rings as the next guy, as in Jordan.

Kobe has more rings than Lebron, and Kobe is not better. Lebron has surpassed Kobe in almost every category imaginable and he will soon pass him in scoring too. Lebron is a complete player.

LeBron doesn't belong in the same sentence as Jordan. You should know that as a Bulls fan or maybe you're too young to remember MJ. LeBron is a better scoring version of Pippen with the offense revolved around him. Just imagine the stats MJ would put up in today's era. Scottie said it himself - he would kill in today's era even more than he did back then.

Statistically Westbrook is the best point guard in the league.. Does that mean he's the best PG though? He fills up the stat sheet more than any other guard.

Have to agree; it's always telling how no one ever mentions Jordans stint at PG where he pretty much averaged a triple double. Jordan did what was needed to win from the SG position, he was an offensive and defensive behemoth, he wasn't an unnecessary stat padder.

If the finals was out of reach for Jordan, does anyone think he'd still be chasing a triple double? Me neither.

711takeover · Post #51 » by **711takeover** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:58 pm

ckmcnutt wrote:Jordan had the better legacy (muh ringz), but LeBron is the better player (muh statz).

That's as close as I believe we can make it.

Stats in an era with less defense and more pace doesn't make you the better player lol. Also, MJ averaged 3 more PPG, 1 less RPG, and 1 less APG as a 6-6 SG compared to a 6-8 SF. I fail to see where Lebron definitively has the advantage in stats.

rumdiary · Post #52 » by **rumdiary** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:59 pm

Imagine if the mainstream media reacted this extremely about the destruction of Net Neutrality

There might be something resembling a democracy with all those people making informed decisions all of a sudden

Cookin Baskets · Post #53 » by **Cookin Baskets** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:00 pm

The Dumbest debate in sports. The NBA has had so many great players throughout its history so comparing just two of them is fruitless and quite frankly pointless.

Cavsfansince84 · Post #54 » by **Cavsfansince84** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:05 pm

711takeover wrote:
Scottie said what he wanted to. He said statistically LeBron is better all around but he'll take MJ. That's the same as saying Westbrook is statistically the best point guard in the league but you won't take him as the best PG. Also, Scottie said MJ would kill in this era with the pace and defense. I fail to see where he Scottie didn't fully talk.

As soon as Pippen said one word SAS started doing all sorts of histrionics as though he couldn't wait to respond when Pippen had barely even started making points to back up what he said. SAS is a joke as an interviewer. I don't have any need to argue Pippen's arguments for him here either. That's not my job.

Star-Lord · Post #55 » by **Star-Lord** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:06 pm

711takeover wrote:
ckmcnutt wrote:Jordan had the better legacy (muh ringz), but LeBron is the better player (muh statz).

That's as close as I believe we can make it.

Stats in an era with less defense and more pace doesn't make you the better player lol. Also, MJ averaged 3 more PPG, 1 less RPG, and 1 less APG as a 6-6 SG compared to a 6-8 SF. I fail to see where Lebron definitively has the advantage in stats.

Thank you. I keep seeing this over and over, and it gets no less confusing each time. There is no real great argument for LeBron over Jordan, statistically or otherwise.

Porzingod · Post #56 » by **Porzingod** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:10 pm

Well everyone knows that LeBron will not get 6 rings therefore MJ stans will always come back to this argument but then i guess Horry is one of the GOATs? Or you can pick and choose when you use the ring argument?

Sure i agree MJ was the most dominant offensive force NBA has ever seen but it's enough to see one game of LeBron(lets take as an example yesterdays game against Hawks) and how he runs the offence to conclude who is the greatest player ever. He looks like a basketball maestro. He makes dozens of passes to set up his teammates each game which just blow your mind. And if we take in to account all other things which he is doing - scoring and shooting 3pt shots with high efficiency, defense and all in all his overall impact on the game i don't see an argument really.

Best offensive player ever - MJ without an argument
Best overall player ever - LeBron

At this point LeBron could break the scoring record, win 5 rings, win 2 more MVPs, 2more FMVPs and MJ stans would be like durr hurr 6 rings

yesh · Post #57 » by **yesh** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:11 pm

711takeover wrote:
ckmcnutt wrote:Jordan had the better legacy (muh ringz), but LeBron is the better player (muh statz).

That's as close as I believe we can make it.

Stats in an era with less defense and more pace doesn't make you the better player lol. Also, MJ averaged 3 more PPG, 1 less RPG, and 1 less APG as a 6-6 SG compared to a 6-8 SF. I fail to see where Lebron definitively has the advantage in stats.

Lebron is 6'9, but I agree.

12footrim · Post #58 » by **12footrim** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:12 pm

Hero wrote:He's right. When you consider the talent and coaching MJ had around him, as well as the significantly weaker opposition in the Finals, I think it's clear the say LeBron has definitely surpassed MJ in stats as well as overall standing.

How about the NBA in general being weaker. 6 expansion team in 8 years right in the middle of his prime really weakened the league and this was before the international influx. The last year he won the MVP at 33 or 34 whatever he was it was a geriatric league with a bunch of old farts still dominating. Most of the all nba teams were guys were over 30 dominated by old farts like he and Malone. Weak ass time. Even their best running mates on the 2 best finals teams like Stockton, Pippen, Hornecek, Rodman were all old farts too.

Contrast that today and their are only like 2 guys over 30 years old in the top 15 or 20 best players in the league. Makes what Lebron is doing in this far more athletic league all the more impressive. They also moved the 3 point line up just to Jordan's range. He shot 28% if you take out the those 3 years. I'm almost 39, I've watched Jordan from 1989 on and I think Lebron is the better basketball player.

711takeover · Post #59 » by **711takeover** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:13 pm

Porzingod wrote:Well everyone knows that LeBron will not get 6 rings therefore MJ stans will always come back to this argument but then i guess Horry is one of the GOATs? Or you can pick and choose when you use the ring argument?

Sure i agree MJ was the most dominant offensive force NBA has ever seen but it's enough to see one game of LeBron(lets take as an example yesterdays game against Hawks) and how he runs the offence to conclude who is the greatest player ever. He looks like a basketball maestro. He makes dozens of passes to set up his teammates each game which just blow your mind. And if we take in to account all other things which he is doing - scoring and shooting 3pt shots with high efficiency, defense and all in all his overall impact on the game i don't see an argument really.

Best offensive player ever - MJ without an argument
Best overall player ever - LeBron

How was LeBron better overall? You know that when MJ played PG for the Bulls (50 game sample size), he averaged 33.4 PPG, 10.4 APG, and 11.2 RPG.

Lovethisgamegr · Post #60 » by **Lovethisgamegr** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:13 pm

711takeover wrote:
Stats in an era with less defense .

MJ vs Lebron is a debate but forget about it for a moment.

'Era with less defense' is an absolutely false statement.Team's defense has evolved unquestionably since the 90's.Pistons ran 2 to 3 defensive systems, at most. This era Spurs, have had a defensive system for each possiple possesion.

Life evolves.Technology evolves.The game evolves.