Pippen on First Take about Jordan vs Lebron

[711takeover]

He's right. When you consider the talent and coaching MJ had around him, as well as the significantly weaker opposition in the Finals, I think it's clear the say LeBron has definitely surpassed MJ in stats as well as overall standing.

How about the NBA in general being weaker. 6 expansion team in 8 years right in the middle of his prime really weakened the league and this was before the international influx. The last year he won the MVP at 33 or 34 whatever he was it was a geriatric league with a bunch of old farts still dominating. Most of the all nba teams were guys were over 30 dominated by old farts like he and Malone. Weak ass time. Even their running makes like Stockton, Pippen, Hornecek, Rodman were all old farts too. Contrast that today and their are only like 2 guys over 30 years old in the top 15 or 20 best players in the league. Makes what Lebron is doing all the more impressive. They also moved the 3 point line up just to Jordan's range. He shot 28% if you take out the those 3 years.

You must be young if you think the NBA back then was weaker.

[dynamic duo]

lebron is the GOAT and it's not going to be even close 5 years from now.

[711takeover]

Stats in an era with less defense .

MJ vs Lebron is a debate but forget about it for a moment.

'Era with less defense' is an absolutely false statement.Team's defense has evolved unquestionably since the 90's.Pistons ran 2 to 3 defensive systems, at most. This era Spurs, have had a defensive system for each possiple possesion.

Life evolves.Technology evolves.The game evolves.

You must be young if you think that the defense today is better than defense back then. Rules have made the defense so much harder now with not being able to hand check and the pace of play. Scottie said it himself - MJ would kill in this era.

The eras make it a completely different game. It's hard to compare because it's literally not the same game anymore

[Porzingod]

lebron is the GOAT and it's not going to be even close 5 years from now.

But... But... But... 6 ringzzz

[711takeover]

lebron is the GOAT and it's not going to be even close 5 years from now.

But... But... But... 6 ringzzz

LeBron will have the records yeah but that makes him the best player of all time?

Peyton Manning has all the QB records.. Is he the best QB of all time too?

[Lovethisgamegr]

How about the NBA in general being weaker..

Lebron might not be the GOAT but the NBA is in general stronger.Bigger talent pool.Better equipment.Knowledge accumulation.Better defensive and offensive systems.Life moves forward,don't stick to the past,it's lost

[zimpy27]

It's hard to separate these two and I don't believe you have to. LeBron and Jordan are two different types of players with different careers. Both amazing in different ways and I'd choose either for different moments in an nba game.

[12footrim]

He's right. When you consider the talent and coaching MJ had around him, as well as the significantly weaker opposition in the Finals, I think it's clear the say LeBron has definitely surpassed MJ in stats as well as overall standing.

How about the NBA in general being weaker. 6 expansion team in 8 years right in the middle of his prime really weakened the league and this was before the international influx. The last year he won the MVP at 33 or 34 whatever he was it was a geriatric league with a bunch of old farts still dominating. Most of the all nba teams were guys were over 30 dominated by old farts like he and Malone. Weak ass time. Even their running makes like Stockton, Pippen, Hornecek, Rodman were all old farts too. Contrast that today and their are only like 2 guys over 30 years old in the top 15 or 20 best players in the league. Makes what Lebron is doing all the more impressive. They also moved the 3 point line up just to Jordan's range. He shot 28% if you take out the those 3 years.

You must be young if you think the NBA back then was weaker.

I'm almost 39. I watched every finals and even the last year the pistons beat them bud. I watched it all in real time and I watch it today and the league is far more talented, skilled, advanced coaching and simply better overall just like in any industry that builds on the innovations of an earlier time. It's also more popular and it's not even debatable with 20-25% of the roster international and all the 10's of millions more talent pool to draw on.

[711takeover]

How about the NBA in general being weaker..

Lebron might not be the GOAT but the NBA is in general stronger.Bigger talent pool.Better equipment.Knowledge accumulation.Better defensive and offensive systems.Life moves forward,don't stick to the past,it's lost

How was the game back then weaker? It was just a completely different game back then compared to now. Pace of play and lack of defensive intensity are the biggest changes, along with no longer being able to hand check now

[Star-Lord]

Stats in an era with less defense .

MJ vs Lebron is a debate but forget about it for a moment.

'Era with less defense' is an absolutely false statement.Team's defense has evolved unquestionably since the 90's.Pistons ran 2 to 3 defensive systems, at most. This era Spurs, have had a defensive system for each possiple possesion.

Life evolves.Technology evolves.The game evolves.

All well and good, but players today have simply been stripped of the tools to play what has always been considered effective defense.

Basketball is way more fun to watch on a given day than it was in 2005 or 1995, and maybe that means its better, depending on what you value. This idea that defenses are so much better today is just a myth, though. Evolution often doesn't follow a linear path.

[12footrim]

How about the NBA in general being weaker..

Lebron might not be the GOAT but the NBA is in general stronger.Bigger talent pool.Better equipment.Knowledge accumulation.Better defensive and offensive systems.Life moves forward,don't stick to the past,it's lost

WTF. That's what I said. IT's 100% stronger than the **** of the 90's in nearly every way. That's my point as a 39 year old that watched it.

[NLZ]

New perspective:

Is it good for basketball/NBA if we can so easily compare the GOAT to someone currently playing that's seems beatable, stoppable etc. the list goes on and on about the flaws and criticisms of LeBron. Isn't MJ supposed to be this Jesus invincible type of figure? Some, or a good % wouldn't even take LeBron atm as their best player. Isn't Durant supposedly better? Harden?

Can't see any current hockey player or whatever even dare being as close to Gretzky as some make it seem current players are to Jordan (first Kobe, now LeBron, some saying Giannis next? lol).

[Porzingod]

lebron is the GOAT and it's not going to be even close 5 years from now.

But... But... But... 6 ringzzz

LeBron will have the records yeah but that makes him the best player of all time?

Peyton Manning has all the QB records.. Is he the best QB of all time too?

Well shouldn't durability(stats long-term) be a pretty big factor in GOATs convo?
No one forced MJ to be weak mentally and quit for all those years.

Possibly if he would have played those years we would not be even having this argument and he would be the unquestioned GOAT but we will never know...

[dynamic duo]

lebron is the best basketball player this league has ever seen, jordan won his rings while being on a stacked bulls teams led by a GOAT coach in phil beating up trash teams. lebron is playing GOAT teams and is now trying to take down 73-9 team+prime durant. of course he's not winning 6 rangz.

[711takeover]

But... But... But... 6 ringzzz

LeBron will have the records yeah but that makes him the best player of all time?

Peyton Manning has all the QB records.. Is he the best QB of all time too?

Well shouldn't durability(stats long-term) be a pretty big factor in GOATs convo?
No one forced MJ to be weak mentally and quit for all those years.

Possibly if he would have played those years we would not be even having this argument and he would be the unquestioned GOAT but we will never know...

I'd love to hear you say MJ is mentally weak with a straight face.

I mean he played at 39 yrs old and averaged 20,6, and 5 but ok.

Sorry you just lost all credibility by saying MJ is weak mentally

[711takeover]

lebron is the best basketball player this league has ever seen, jordan won his rings while being on a stacked bulls teams led by a GOAT coach in phil beating up trash teams. lebron is playing GOAT teams and is now trying to take down 73-9 team+prime durant. of course he's not winning 6 rangz.

Lol thanks for the laugh

[Lovethisgamegr]

Stats in an era with less defense .

MJ vs Lebron is a debate but forget about it for a moment.

'Era with less defense' is an absolutely false statement.Team's defense has evolved unquestionably since the 90's.Pistons ran 2 to 3 defensive systems, at most. This era Spurs, have had a defensive system for each possiple possesion.

Life evolves.Technology evolves.The game evolves.

You must be young if you think that the defense today is better than defense back then. Rules have made the defense so much harder now with not being able to hand check and the pace of play. Scottie said it himself - MJ would kill in this era.

The eras make it a completely different game. It's hard to compare because it's literally not the same game anymore

You must be really old if you think that individual defense can be in any way better than a team's defense.Rules have actually helped this evolution.You don't have to punch someone once every ten games to prevent him from scoring, you can just play better defense with the help of your coach and your teammates in every possession.

Ofcourse the eras make it a different game.That's why you don't consider Russel,Wilt,or Mikan as the GOAT. You know there has been evolution, but somehow you expect or wish that evolution stopped when you were young.
I understand that, a lot of ppl do so, it makes them forget that they're growing older.

[Star-Lord]

But... But... But... 6 ringzzz

LeBron will have the records yeah but that makes him the best player of all time?

Peyton Manning has all the QB records.. Is he the best QB of all time too?

Well shouldn't durability(stats long-term) be a pretty big factor in GOATs convo?
No one forced MJ to be weak mentally and quit for all those years.

Possibly if he would have played those years we would not be even having this argument and he would be the unquestioned GOAT but we will never know...

His father was murdered... That doesn't make him mentally weak, it just means you have a really, really bad take. May want to rethink that one there.

And if we're factoring in longevity, then Kareem has more of a case as the greatest player of all time than LeBron does currently.

[NLZ]

lebron is the best basketball player this league has ever seen, jordan won his rings while being on a stacked bulls teams led by a GOAT coach in phil beating up trash teams. lebron is playing GOAT teams and is now trying to take down 73-9 team+prime durant. of course he's not winning 6 rangz.

LeBron isn't the only player "trying to take down 73-9 team+prime Durant. So is Houston (Harden), Spurs (Kawhi) etc.
Is Harden top 3 all-time now by this logic? Harden/Houston in the East make the Finals, no difference than LeBron.
This doesn't make him or them better than Jordan, it's almost irrelevant.

[711takeover]

LeBron will have the records yeah but that makes him the best player of all time?

Peyton Manning has all the QB records.. Is he the best QB of all time too?

Well shouldn't durability(stats long-term) be a pretty big factor in GOATs convo?
No one forced MJ to be weak mentally and quit for all those years.

Possibly if he would have played those years we would not be even having this argument and he would be the unquestioned GOAT but we will never know...

His father was murdered... That doesn't make him mentally weak, it just means you have a really, really bad take. May want to rethink that one there.

And if we're factoring in longevity, then Kareem has more of a case as the greatest player of all time than LeBron does currently.

This dude said MJ is weak mentally when he is known as the fiercest competitor and being mentally stronger than most players... And players who played against him tout him as mentally stronger