Political Roundtable Part XVI

[dckingsfan]

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/fcc-votes-repeal-net-neutrality

In a vote along party lines, the federal government has ended sweeping net-neutrality rules that guaranteed equal access to the internet.

The Thursday vote at the Federal Communications Commission will likely usher in big changes in how Americans use the internet, a radical departure from more than a decade of federal oversight. The move not only rolls back restrictions that keep broadband providers like Comcast, Verizon and AT&T from blocking or collecting tolls from services they don’t like, but bars states from imposing their own rules.

Customers hate this. Corporations hate this. Democrats hate this. Republicans hate this. The fact that so many opposing forces can agree that repealing net neutrality is horrible decision should tell you something. It’s like when superheros team up with super villains to defeat a world ending threat. Hopefully this gets tied up in lawsuits for years and a new administration can reverse this decision.

I think we are on the opposite side of this one. The key point that supporters of net neutrality have missed is that ISPs and the companies that control the Internet backbone infrastructure that knits everything together do not have the power to pick winners and losers either.

Consumers decide what products and services are successful because we adopt them. If an ISP blocks Amazon Prime because of the bandwidth it requires, consumers who want Amazon Prime will take their business elsewhere. If enough people do so, the ISP will have to change policies or go out of business.

The only reason to have Net Neutrality in place is so that the government can have oversight. The only way to do that is to have companies that have enough personnel to fill out the gobs of paperwork required and to collect the inevitable taxes that go with the administrative overhead. It isn't a model for innovation.

[TGW]

And people continue to feed the troll. Ya'll have no self control.

My bad. Can we call it an illness - I need to go to troll-feeding rehab.

When there's not much to talk about (i.e. Wizards), I can understand why people engage the trolls.

I really wish the reply feature didn't show the responses of the idiots that you're trying to block. The interface designers need to fix that.

[gtn130]

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/fcc-votes-repeal-net-neutrality

In a vote along party lines, the federal government has ended sweeping net-neutrality rules that guaranteed equal access to the internet.

The Thursday vote at the Federal Communications Commission will likely usher in big changes in how Americans use the internet, a radical departure from more than a decade of federal oversight. The move not only rolls back restrictions that keep broadband providers like Comcast, Verizon and AT&T from blocking or collecting tolls from services they don’t like, but bars states from imposing their own rules.

Customers hate this. Corporations hate this. Democrats hate this. Republicans hate this. The fact that so many opposing forces can agree that repealing net neutrality is horrible decision should tell you something. It’s like when superheros team up with super villains to defeat a world ending threat. Hopefully this gets tied up in lawsuits for years and a new administration can reverse this decision.

I think we are on the opposite side of this one. The key point that supporters of net neutrality have missed is that ISPs and the companies that control the Internet backbone infrastructure that knits everything together do not have the power to pick winners and losers either.

Consumers decide what products and services are successful because we adopt them. If an ISP blocks Amazon Prime because of the bandwidth it requires, consumers who want Amazon Prime will take their business elsewhere. If enough people do so, the ISP will have to change policies or go out of business.

The only reason to have Net Neutrality in place is so that the government can have oversight. The only way to do that is to have companies that have enough personnel to fill out the gobs of paperwork required and to collect the inevitable taxes that go with the administrative overhead. It isn't a model for innovation.

What you're saying regarding consumers deciding is generally true, but it doesn't apply to this industry because nobody can really enter the market. Google, I repeat, GOOGLE, tried and failed to break into the ISP game because it's simply far too expensive to deploy Google Fiber when you consider the infrastructure costs and the bureaucratic red tape. Other players can't enter the market because you need to actually physically build things in public spaces. On top of that, Comcast, Verizon, Cox and whoever else have effectively formed a cartel wherein they've drawn lines on maps to equitably share and divvy up customer bases so they can maintain their anti-competition stranglehold on the market.

[gtn130]

Also, DC, you should look into Chattanooga's municipal broadband offering before you declare that any government involvement is counter to innovation.

https://www.thenation.com/article/chattanooga-was-a-typical-post-industrial-city-then-it-began-offering-municipal-broadband/

They have speeds that are ~30x that of what Comcast can offer. Comcast lobbied hard against Chattanooga implementing this service back in 2010 or so.

For more context, look no further than global broadband speeds and where the US ranks: https://www.speedtest.net/global-index

The US is 12th in broadband speeds, a big improvement actually, but they still can't quite compete with global juggernaut in international commerce and home to a massive population of 300,000 people, Iceland.

[cammac]

Cammac – I’ve remained open minded about single payer but studies like the one below really concern me. The shift to single payer would be a big adjustment for many Americans. I can only speak for myself, but I’ve never had to wait to see, or be treated by a specialist. I’ve never had to wait for an MRI or any other medical test. You mentioned before that Canadians can buy additional private insurance to augment the govt. plan. Under that circumstance are wait times reduced or eliminated?

……..The Fraser Institute found that patients under Canada's single-payer system this year waited an average of 10.9 weeks—roughly two-and-a-half months—from the time they had a consultation with a specialist to the time at which they received treatment. Physicians consider 7.2 weeks to be a clinically reasonable wait time.

The report also found that patients' wait for treatment after referral to a specialist by their general practitioner was 21.2 weeks, or longer than four months.

"This year's wait time—the longest ever recorded in this survey's history—is 128 percent longer than in 1993, when it was just 9.3 weeks," the report states.

The report, which looks at 10 provinces in Canada, found that there are 1,040,791 patients waiting for procedures. There are also high wait times to receive scans and ultrasounds. Patients waited an average of 10.8 weeks for an MRI scan and 3.9 weeks for an ultrasound.

"Research has repeatedly indicated that wait times for medically necessary treatment are not benign inconveniences," the report states. "Wait times can, and do, have serious consequences such as increased pain, suffering, and mental anguish."
According to the report, patients experience long wait times for surgeries, waiting as long as 41.7 weeks for orthopedic surgery, 32.9 weeks for neurosurgery, and 31.4 weeks for ophthalmology.

"In certain instances, [wait times] can also result in poorer medical outcomes—transforming potentially reversible illnesses or injuries into chronic, irreversible conditions, or even permanent disabilities," the report states. "In many instances, patients may also have to forgo their wages while they wait for treatment, resulting in an economic cost to the individuals themselves and the economy in general."

Fraser points out that previous studies have found the lost economic output in waiting for joint replacement surgery, coronary artery bypass graft surgery, MRI scans, and cataract surgery totaled $14.8 billion in 2007.

The report also notes that 46.3 percent of patients would prefer to have their procedure performed within a week if they had the opportunity to do so.

Sally Pipes, a former Canadian and president of the Pacific Research Institute, said one of the incentives for her to come to America was the growing problem with Canada's health care system.

Pipes's mother, who lived in Canada, died from colon cancer in 2005 because she couldn't get a colonoscopy. She finally received one two weeks before she died when she was hemorrhaging…..

http://freebeacon.com/issues/waiting-times-for-canadas-single-payer-health-care-system-hit-record-high/

The Fraser Institute is a very right wing think tank and not well regarded.
I can only go on my experience I waited 1 week to see my heart specialist and once you have a specialist they book appointments. Again waited a week to see a specialist for a colonoscopy had a appointment booked in 1 week but had it deferred till January because of my trip to South Africa. But many USA have waiting times and many procedures aren't covered and you must go to certain hospitals for care where in Canada you can go to any hospital. The healthcare system is provincially run in Canada so if I traveled to another province and got ill I would be treated and OHIP (Ontario Health Insurance Program) would pay the Provincial payment if it was more its out of pocket.Hip replacements may be delayed more than in the USA but then there isn't costs involved.

Sorry forgot to this not sure if the "Free Beacon" is the best possible way to find out about healthcare?
No healthcare system is perfect except if you have unlimited funds and can fly around the world on your corporate jet to get the very best.

[gtn130]

Popper has a very keen eye for finding material that confirms all of his biases

[Ruzious]

ehhhh.....tyin' to figure out your question.......exactly.....i think you are asking me if cutting taxes will increase the deficit?

In theory, yes. If the GDP is stangant and we remain in the 8 year Obama recession. Yes. You are right. In your vaccuum of little to no growth or even a recession.

However, if growth (GDP) is significant enough that new business is created. You would then create new tax dollars. and Offshore overseas money is repatriated(trillions of it!!!!!) then those taxes even at lower rates creates a ton more revenue.

Remember 21% of something is better than 35% of nothing!!!!!

Trump is betting on himself to get the economy going. and keep it going. So far he's winning. if you havent noticed? oh that's right, CNN wont cover it. GDP is at 3.3%!! 3.9% expected next quarter and perhaps as much as 4-4.1%. Unemployement is at 4.1% 3.9% expected next quarter.

Its working, Dat. Its effin working right now!!!!!!!

We have yet to see the repatriation of those trillions of the offshore wealth. Offshore, huge corporations pay 10-20%. For example, right now, Apple has over 300 billion offshore!!!!!!!!!!!! 3. hundred. effing. billion.!!!!! they pay 10% in ireland. Economic Experts believe corporations like Apple will bring that money back here even at 20-21%. and trump is the guy to call them out if they dont. But at 35-40%??? he cant blame them, yet.

You do understand this position, right? I mean fully? and we can argue how to implement it to best make it work. But this is the plan. The plan is not to just take money away from the poor. at all. the plan is to create even more tax dollars.

So we might not lose a single penny for entitlements. not. a. single. penny. Its a boom vs. bust mentality.

So imo, all these idiot democrats and liberal media are doing is nothing more than attempting to derail the boom. which will bring us back to the bust economy. where we do nothing but borrow into oblivion and end up needing even more money for entitlements as more people lose their jobs.

all for what!!!!!???/So democrats can remain in power!!!!????? why????????? For what??? more entitlements!!!????????

stop the effin insanity!! folks!!! get off your azzes and instead be happy to go to work!!! Its ok to work!!!! you dont need big daddy government's nipple to swuck on!!!!!!!!!you will actually be happier when you work!! mentally and physically healthier!! have more self respect!!!!!!! stick around with the family more!!!! have a healthier relationship with you wife or husband, even your baby n daddy momma will appreciate you more, might even get some side tail from time to time with a few more bucks in your pocket that you actually earned, and do a better job as a parent!!!!!!!You dong might even grow an inch. Mine grew at least 2 when i made my first million. all of which will benefit the kids!!!! so they do NOT grow up on and get too accustomed to big daddy government's nipple and around parents "beaten down" by the "system." Beat the system!!! Engage in society!! have a personal plan for wealth. its not that hard.

Ya know...there is an entirely different paradigm out there. a different way of life. where you make your own damn money. and have enough of it to share with family and friends to help them, the last thing you will want is big daddy government taking out large portions of your check only to inefficiently spend it on go nowhere, non-needle moving entitlements which are not healthy. I grew up with parents that waited for their check each month. They were miserable, they made everyone around them miserable. they never "got out" of it. But all their children. All of us!! BY not doing it the way they did it. 50 effin years later, my mom still waits for that check each month. And is miserable. all because she was never made (or forced) to engage with society in a healthy manner. Always angry, always pissed off, always thinking everything should just be given to her and that life was fair. Well, me and all my brothers and sisters figured out real quick that life aint fair. and did nearly everything different than they did. Starting with engaging in society in a polite fashion and willing to work hard to "earn our keep" along the way.

just my two cents.

Your 2 cents is worth 35% of nothing. Why do you think the CBO said the Senate plan would add 1.4 trillion to the debt over the next decade - and that was before changes were reportedly made that would dramatically increase that number? Committee for a Responsible Federal Government estimated it would be 6 trillion. Is this because they haven't seen your posts? They haven't been exposed to the genius that is you?

And the stuff you put in quotes shows you're not listening. It's all just more irrelevant blubbering blabberings. You have a tendency to do that... a lot. Has anyone mentioned that? Not that you noticed? Btw, not to sound harsh (this time), but do you have any family or close friends? It might help to understand where you're coming from.

so no credit fo rmy side tail joke or your dong growing when you got a little change in your pocket? Tough crowd. Tough crowd indeed.

As for the personal, I dont believe in victims(other than small children). I do believe in the boot strap mentality. I beleive in a daily series of choices that define who we are and what we do and how happy we end up. and I hold people accountable in my life for their actions. I dont really listen to their words so much as I more so pay attention to their actions. I am strong and centered and stand on my own and keep my own counsel. In that regard, i have tons of professional acquaintances(1000's) that i do business with and therefore consider friends. My thought is that if we dont put bread on each other's tables then what are we doing? pretending to be friends? friend do. frenemies talk! And sometimes family is nothing more than a frenemy. I'm ok with that. I dont cry over none if it and in fact, I'm quite happy. Quite content. So much so that i share a path to happiness here with you guys. I would bet every penny I have that I am happier and my approach to life is better and healthier than everyone in this thread. My last dollar. I am so free and so at peace that i dont care what anyone thinks of me. thats true freedom. and it come from an inner confidence and peace built on a foundation of exhilarating happiness defined by a ton of mistakes that i learned from. And most important that has led me down a path where I have people in my life that know the real me (not an agent I created to look good or to impress people) . I show them the real me because I love the real me. I love myself sooooo much. and it has also led me to the love of my life. My soul mate and we've been together 5 years and have an amazing realationship. and yes she reads this stuff and the stuff i put on twitter. lol and laughs at me for doing this. she is like why bother. but then she sees me smirk daily as I'm typing away or talking away and gets it. she sees me enjoying myself. this is fun for me. So Enjoy it while you can folks. I might get bored soon?

Cool, I actually am glad to hear you gots things together there. Keep it up. I mean the personal stuff - you can slow down on the posting... you and the prez... please.

[cammac]

How does Trump compare to other Presidents in telling the truth?
"We applied the same conservative standard to Obama and Trump, counting only demonstrably and substantially false statements. The result: Trump is unlike any other modern president. He seems virtually indifferent to reality, often saying whatever helps him make the case he’s trying to make.

In his first 10 months in office, he has told 103 separate untruths, many of them repeatedly. Obama told 18 over his entire eight-year tenure. That’s an average of about two a year for Obama and about 124 a year for Trump."

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/12/14/1724302/-Trump-supporters-demanded-the-NY-Times-to-compare-his-lies-to-other-presidents-they-shouldn-t-have

[dckingsfan]

Also, DC, you should look into Chattanooga's municipal broadband offering before you declare that any government involvement is counter to innovation.

https://www.thenation.com/article/chattanooga-was-a-typical-post-industrial-city-then-it-began-offering-municipal-broadband/

Why would not supporting net neutrality put me at logger heads on this issue? If anything this goes to prove the point, no? I would have no problem with investments in infrastructure - block grants if you will to state and local governments.

Or tax breaks for Spacex - although I hate tax carveouts.

Personally, I think that net neutrality was set so they could slap the same fee structure on that they slapped on phones. A very regressive tax.

I think not treating the internet like a utility is by far the best way to continue to innovate - since we don't really know what that innovation will look like

[popper]

Popper has a very keen eye for finding material that confirms all of his biases

Not sure how keen eyed I am gtn but the same study is referenced in this Huffington Post article. Does that make you feel better?


https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/canadian-medical-tourism_us_5949b405e4b0db570d3778ff

[cammac]

Popper has a very keen eye for finding material that confirms all of his biases

Not sure how keen eyed I am gtn but the same study is referenced in this Huffington Post article. Does that make you feel better?


https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/canadian-medical-tourism_us_5949b405e4b0db570d3778ff

Unlike right wing media ....the left wing media does give opposition views!
Again my basic comments were from personal experience!!

[stilldropin20]

Popper has a very keen eye for finding material that confirms all of his biases

Not sure how keen eyed I am gtn but the same study is referenced in this Huffington Post article. Does that make you feel better?


https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/canadian-medical-tourism_us_5949b405e4b0db570d3778ff

Popper, all they do is post far left extremely liberal sources. Don't apologize for your sources. In fact embrace them. History is going to put you on the right side of nearly all these issues. Me too. Im 100% certain of it.

The left has one goal. Destroy trump's reputation at any and all costs, some of which will be grave. Death of a 1000 cuts. Then impeach him. On almost no actual grounds.

And in fact everything trump is doing is working. The left can't have that!! Anything but the orange monkey actually being right about how to make the us economy work for the American people. " But, he's a meany!!!"

Nope, can't have that. Instead let's keep the people desperate needy of big government.

Oh the left. Oh your scare tactics. Oh the alarmists!! And oh...all of your chicken littles!!!

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[cammac]

This is worth the read

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/13/opinion/alabama-senate-election-resistance.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col-left-region&region=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region

[cammac]

Popper has a very keen eye for finding material that confirms all of his biases

Not sure how keen eyed I am gtn but the same study is referenced in this Huffington Post article. Does that make you feel better?


https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/canadian-medical-tourism_us_5949b405e4b0db570d3778ff

Unlike right wing media ....the left wing media does give opposition views!
Again my basic comments were from personal experience!

http://formosamedicaltravel.com/
http://www.cnn.com/travel/article/medical-tourism-morgan-spurlock-inside-man/index.html
https://www.cnbc.com/2014/05/23/patients-cross-borders-for-online-deals-on-medications.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/11/17/prescription-drug-prices_n_13057392.html

[popper]

Not sure how keen eyed I am gtn but the same study is referenced in this Huffington Post article. Does that make you feel better?


https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/canadian-medical-tourism_us_5949b405e4b0db570d3778ff

Unlike right wing media ....the left wing media does give opposition views!
Again my basic comments were from personal experience!

http://formosamedicaltravel.com/
http://www.cnn.com/travel/article/medical-tourism-morgan-spurlock-inside-man/index.html
https://www.cnbc.com/2014/05/23/patients-cross-borders-for-online-deals-on-medications.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/11/17/prescription-drug-prices_n_13057392.html

Which is why I addressed my post to you. You’re the one with personal experience in the system. I’m eager to learn more.

[cammac]

Before I went to China I had a cardiac incident called for ambulance rushed to hospital which made sure I was stable. In 2 days was in for surgery to put in a stent. Spent one more night in hospital was released and had follow-ups with stress tests. At the time of the incident I was running and cycling everyday in perfect health it was a hereditary problem.

My total out of pocket was $25 the portion of the ambulance cost OHIP didn't cover. The service I received was top notch and equipmnt a surgury staff would rival any in the USA.

[stilldropin20]

Before I went to China I had a cardiac incident called for ambulance rushed to hospital which made sure I was stable. In 2 days was in for surgery to put in a stent. Spent one more night in hospital was released and had follow-ups with stress tests. At the time of the incident I was running and cycling everyday in perfect health it was a hereditary problem.

My total out of pocket was $25 the portion of the ambulance cost OHIP didn't cover. The service I received was top notch and equipmnt a surgury staff would rival any in the USA.

Hip hip hooray!! All your neighbors paid your hospital bill for the win!!

Mean while your raking in the profits on the backs of your poor Chinese employees and at the expense of the middle class of your own country!! Whom you are sticking with the bill.

And paying only, what was it? 10% federal income tax? And most of your income is untaxed dividends?

Come on man, this whole time it's been you running the con game!!!!

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[cammac]

Before I went to China I had a cardiac incident called for ambulance rushed to hospital which made sure I was stable. In 2 days was in for surgery to put in a stent. Spent one more night in hospital was released and had follow-ups with stress tests. At the time of the incident I was running and cycling everyday in perfect health it was a hereditary problem.

My total out of pocket was $25 the portion of the ambulance cost OHIP didn't cover. The service I received was top notch and equipmnt a surgury staff would rival any in the USA.

Hip hip hooray!! All your neighbors paid your hospital bill for the win!!

Mean while your raking in the profits on the backs of your poor Chinese employees and at the expense of the middle class of your own country!! Whom you are sticking with the bill.

And paying only, what was it? 10% federal income tax? And most of your income is untaxed dividends?

Come on man, this whole time it's been you running the con game!!!!

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FYI I had 2 Chinese employees and 35 Western Employees in China.........My 1 Chinese Employee as the highest paid employee and when I sold my business I gave her 25% of the business because she was the key to my success in China she had a MBA & Law Degree. My Western Employees were mostly engineers or QC specialists.
Everyone in our country share in the cost of universal healthcare and I'm quite sure I have paid more than my fair share over the years.
I said I own a couple of small corporations that make less than 500K so yes I pay 10% Federal Corporate and 5% Provincial Corporate Which both will change to 8.5% and 3.5% within 2 years. Currently I take zero from the corporations but my employees are paid well and get added benefits and profit sharing.Most of my income comes from stock dividends or capital gains dividends 15% and Capital gains 25%. I'm in the process of starting a larger company which will make well over 500K it will be be a international company using experiences I've gained over the world.

Yes my neighbors paid for my healthcare and I thank them and I paid for there healthcare that's what universal healthcare is my friend it is socialism at its best. Just like I pay a disproportionate part of my municipal taxes to benefit the education and services of others in the region. I suggest you come to Toronto check the city out its basically the same size as your Chicago tell me you don't feel safe.

[Wizardspride]

Before I went to China I had a cardiac incident called for ambulance rushed to hospital which made sure I was stable. In 2 days was in for surgery to put in a stent. Spent one more night in hospital was released and had follow-ups with stress tests. At the time of the incident I was running and cycling everyday in perfect health it was a hereditary problem.

My total out of pocket was $25 the portion of the ambulance cost OHIP didn't cover. The service I received was top notch and equipmnt a surgury staff would rival any in the USA.

Hip hip hooray!! All your neighbors paid your hospital bill for the win!!

Mean while your raking in the profits on the backs of your poor Chinese employees and at the expense of the middle class of your own country!! Whom you are sticking with the bill.

And paying only, what was it? 10% federal income tax? And most of your income is untaxed dividends?

Come on man, this whole time it's been you running the con game!!!!

Sent from my SM-N920T using RealGM mobile app

Yes my neighbors paid for my healthcare and I thank them and I paid for there healthcare that's what universal healthcare is my friend it is socialism at its best. Just like I pay a disproportionate part of my municipal taxes to benefit the education and services of others in the region. I suggest you come to Toronto check the city out its basically the same size as your Chicago tell me you don't feel safe.

[stilldropin20]

Before I went to China I had a cardiac incident called for ambulance rushed to hospital which made sure I was stable. In 2 days was in for surgery to put in a stent. Spent one more night in hospital was released and had follow-ups with stress tests. At the time of the incident I was running and cycling everyday in perfect health it was a hereditary problem.

My total out of pocket was $25 the portion of the ambulance cost OHIP didn't cover. The service I received was top notch and equipmnt a surgury staff would rival any in the USA.

Hip hip hooray!! All your neighbors paid your hospital bill for the win!!

Mean while your raking in the profits on the backs of your poor Chinese employees and at the expense of the middle class of your own country!! Whom you are sticking with the bill.

And paying only, what was it? 10% federal income tax? And most of your income is untaxed dividends?

Come on man, this whole time it's been you running the con game!!!!

Sent from my SM-N920T using RealGM mobile app

FYI I had 2 Chinese employees and 35 Western Employees in China.........My 1 Chinese Employee as the highest paid employee and when I sold my business I gave her 25% of the business because she was the key to my success in China she had a MBA & Law Degree. My Western Employees were mostly engineers or QC specialists.
Everyone in our country share in the cost of universal healthcare and I'm quite sure I have paid more than my fair share over the years.
I said I own a couple of small corporations that make less than 500K so yes I pay 10% Federal Corporate and 5% Provincial Corporate Which both will change to 8.5% and 3.5% within 2 years. Currently I take zero from the corporations but my employees are paid well and get added benefits and profit sharing.Most of my income comes from stock dividends or capital gains dividends 15% and Capital gains 25%. I'm in the process of starting a larger company which will make well over 500K it will be be a international company using experiences I've gained over the world.

Yes my neighbors paid for my healthcare and I thank them and I paid for there healthcare that's what universal healthcare is my friend it is socialism at its best. Just like I pay a disproportionate part of my municipal taxes to benefit the education and services of others in the region. I suggest you come to Toronto check the city out its basically the same size as your Chicago tell me you don't feel safe.

So.......it feels kinda good.......to pull it out........and plop it on the table?



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