Nets - In Season Moves & Possible Trade Ideas

[DeRoma]

question -- what would Joe Harris fetch before the trade deadline?

I think id put harris value in the category of bogs and Crabbe. Crabbe last year was a bit more productive then harris now, although not by much and on a huge contract. bogs more production/worse shooting but only 4-5 million more not 18 million more. i think harris value is probably worth more then both due to contract.


im thinking... harris might allow us to dump a bad contract in the 8-10m range but we dont have one of those. certainly he doesnt get it done moving mozgod.

bogs got a first in the20s while having us have to also eat nicholson. im thinking harris gets a pick in the 25-35 are or maybe slightly better and us eating a semi bad deal in the 3-5m range?

I still think Crabbe is the better player than Harris BUT from a contract standpoint I think the Nets should be looking to deal Crabbe+Dinwiddie which can attain us a pretty productive player. We can then resign Joe Harris into a reasonable contract.

i love Dinwiddie as a player but LeVert is looking so good out there and I think he has way more upside than DinDin. I'd like to give him a bigger role in the bench for us and gradually give him the starting PG spot with D-Lo playing SG. We also need to start thinking of players that we can add into our 3/4.

Maybe Otto porter? Crabbe, Nik, and Dindin?

[Netaman]

I don't foresee any big dump trade like that in-season. I think most likely (Bobby) Marks is correct and he's traded for a good 2nd round pick or maybe a slightly better 2019 pick? Or if there's a Trey Lyles type hang around someone's bench collecting dust that Sean Marks likes.

The rest of this season is going to be about continuing the development of DLo, Levert, Dinwiddie, Crabbe, RHJ, Allen, and Okafor. Stauskas possibly enters that group if/when Harris gets dealt. All 7 of those guys have a chance to be starters going forward. I don't think Marks is going to make any big trades until he has a feel for which ones he thinks are keepers.

[LKIRNets]

Be on the look out for teams wanting Joe Harris this winter. I can see OKC, NO and Denver being one of these teams. Maybe even the Knicks since they have Willy Hernangomez and are looking to move him for a guard.

Anyone that thinks Joe Harris is not moving did not see that Marks got Sauce Castillo in that deal and a 2nd rd pick. Plus they are very high on Milton Doyle in the G League.

[brook]

You guys think that the Bulls can give us Bobby Portis for Acy and a second pick? Portis he's a good player who rebounds very strong, he have another year after this on his rookie contract. The Bulls maybe would trade him and clean up the locker room because Portis and Mirotic have big problems.

[Keith Van Horn]

we're not going to be able to move Crabbe or Mozgov. Those dudes will be Nets until the end of their current contracts.

I can see us moving Joe Harris though, that's why I asked about his value. Doing something like trading him and the Raptor's pick for a pick in the mid teens could be a goal.... like to the Nuggets, Clippers, Hornets, etc. Like what the Jazz did when they traded #24 pick and Trey Lyles for the #13 pick which turned out to be Donovan Mitchell.

[Prokorov]

Be on the look out for teams wanting Joe Harris this winter. I can see OKC, NO and Denver being one of these teams. Maybe even the Knicks since they have Willy Hernangomez and are looking to move him for a guard.

Anyone that thinks Joe Harris is not moving did not see that Marks got Sauce Castillo in that deal and a 2nd rd pick. Plus they are very high on Milton Doyle in the G League.

we cant afford harris even if we did want to keep him. Marks set harris value with the crabbe deal. he is looking at 10+ million a year

[Prokorov]

You guys think that the Bulls can give us Bobby Portis for Acy and a second pick? Portis he's a good player who rebounds very strong, he have another year after this on his rookie contract. The Bulls maybe would trade him and clean up the locker room because Portis and Mirotic have big problems.

why wouldnt they just get rid of mirotic?

makes little sense for the bulls

[Prokorov]

we're not going to be able to move Crabbe or Mozgov. Those dudes will be Nets until the end of their current contracts.

I can see us moving Joe Harris though, that's why I asked about his value. Doing something like trading him and the Raptor's pick for a pick in the mid teens could be a goal.... like to the Nuggets, Clippers, Hornets, etc. Like what the Jazz did when they traded #24 pick and Trey Lyles for the #13 pick which turned out to be Donovan Mitchell.

he is a free agent, we cant trade him at the draft, would need to be by the deadline

[steady]

We have got to get Milton Doyle signed to a two way contract / maybe swap him for Outtara - before the deadline for such changes, and the time for ten day contracts starts, in January or February

He won’t last in G League for long. I liked what we saw in summer league and he’s been playing well all season for Long Island

[Netaman]

yea Doyle is really intriguing. He looked like he belonged in Summer League.

[Netaman]

Be on the look out for teams wanting Joe Harris this winter. I can see OKC, NO and Denver being one of these teams. Maybe even the Knicks since they have Willy Hernangomez and are looking to move him for a guard.

Anyone that thinks Joe Harris is not moving did not see that Marks got Sauce Castillo in that deal and a 2nd rd pick. Plus they are very high on Milton Doyle in the G League.

we cant afford harris even if we did want to keep him. Marks set harris value with the crabbe deal. he is looking at 10+ million a year

Marks didn't set the value for Harris with the Crabbe deal because it's 2 totally different situations (primarily UFA vs. RFA and age).

The market for Harris was set last year by guys like Bogdonovic and CJ Miles. I'd guess he gets 3/24M or 2/18M, something in that range.

[Prokorov]

Be on the look out for teams wanting Joe Harris this winter. I can see OKC, NO and Denver being one of these teams. Maybe even the Knicks since they have Willy Hernangomez and are looking to move him for a guard.

Anyone that thinks Joe Harris is not moving did not see that Marks got Sauce Castillo in that deal and a 2nd rd pick. Plus they are very high on Milton Doyle in the G League.

we cant afford harris even if we did want to keep him. Marks set harris value with the crabbe deal. he is looking at 10+ million a year

Marks didn't set the value for Harris with the Crabbe deal because it's 2 totally different situations (primarily UFA vs. RFA and age).

The market for Harris was set last year by guys like Bogdonovic and CJ Miles. I'd guess he gets 3/24M or 2/18M, something in that range.

he wont get what crabbe did because of RFA like you mentioned but thats still setting the bar... his market valye is 75% of crabbe due to him only being a UFA. he is the same exact player as crabbe.

either way, we cant afford him regardless of if he makes crabbe money or miles money

[Netaman]

we cant afford harris even if we did want to keep him. Marks set harris value with the crabbe deal. he is looking at 10+ million a year

Marks didn't set the value for Harris with the Crabbe deal because it's 2 totally different situations (primarily UFA vs. RFA and age).

The market for Harris was set last year by guys like Bogdonovic and CJ Miles. I'd guess he gets 3/24M or 2/18M, something in that range.

he wont get what crabbe did because of RFA like you mentioned but thats still setting the bar... his market valye is 75% of crabbe due to him only being a UFA. he is the same exact player as crabbe.

either way, we cant afford him regardless of if he makes crabbe money or miles money

Agree that it's not worth paying him given our situation, disagree that he's the exact same player as Crabbe despite the 26 game comparison victory lap. Crabbe has been really good on defense, slightly better than him at just about everything else, and he's shown more upside. Injuries have stalled his momentum every time he's expanded his role so it would be nice to see if he can have a strong, consistent 2nd half.

[Prokorov]

Agree that it's not worth paying him given our situation, disagree that he's the exact same player as Crabbe despite the 26 game comparison victory lap. Crabbe has been really good on defense, slightly better than him at just about everything else, and he's shown more upside. Injuries have stalled his momentum every time he's expanded his role so it would be nice to see if he can have a strong, consistent 2nd half.

its hard for me to call crabbe "really good on defense" when he is in a negative just about every advanced defensive metric. granted, harris is slightly worse in those areas... but defense is tough to measure and crabbe has played hard... then again so has harris.

Crabbe has been really good on defense, slightly better than him at just about everything else, and he's shown more upside. Injuries have stalled his momentum every time he's expanded his role so it would be nice to see if he can have a strong, consistent 2nd half.

Bro... come on. slightly better at everything???

Harris is shooting 44% from the field, crabbe 38% from the field. how is th at crabbe slightly better?

Harris is shooting 36.7% from three, crabbe 36.6% from three. how is that crabbe slightly better?

Harris has an 11.2 PER and 59 TS%. Crabbe has an 11.1 PER and 53 TS%. how is that crabbe slightly better?

Crabbe really only has an edge in minutes and free throw shooting. PER36 their raw stats are basically identical.

Harris also has been better all around offensively... cutting, finsshing, playing off rhe ball. crabbe has really struggled outside of jump shots.

he's shown more upside.

How has he shown more upside?

-his numbers are basically down across the board and harris numbers are up.
-from a potential standpoint they are basically the same age and both had the same draft stock and college careers

the only thing that makes people think crabbe has more upside are that marks massively overpaid him. that contract is the only thing setting expectations for crabbe...

i had to take crap from this entire board before the season, im not going to eat your crap now that its clear the two arent worlds apart.

[Netaman]

Bro... come on. slightly better at everything???

Harris is shooting 44% from the field, crabbe 38% from the field. how is th at crabbe slightly better?

Harris is shooting 36.7% from three, crabbe 36.6% from three. how is that crabbe slightly better?

Harris has an 11.2 PER and 59 TS%. Crabbe has an 11.1 PER and 53 TS%. how is that crabbe slightly better?

Crabbe really only has an edge in minutes and free throw shooting. PER36 their raw stats are basically identical.

Harris also has been better all around offensively... cutting, finsshing, playing off rhe ball. crabbe has really struggled outside of jump shots.

Yes - he is slightly better at everything. Shooting, passing, defending. You can throw all of their similar numbers you want out there, over a small sample size it's not that relevant. There is a reason why it has been Crabbe taking and hitting big shots at the end of games more often than Harris. It's not because of their salaries. He has been on the floor more often because he is the better player.

How has he shown more upside?

-his numbers are basically down across the board and harris numbers are up.
-from a potential standpoint they are basically the same age and both had the same draft stock and college careers

the only thing that makes people think crabbe has more upside are that marks massively overpaid him. that contract is the only thing setting expectations for crabbe...

i had to take crap from this entire board before the season, im not going to eat your crap now that its clear the two arent worlds apart.

Come on, you don't think Crabbe has more upside? Joe Harris has never scored 20 points in an NBA game. You can beat the drum of them being identical players all you want based on their numbers from the first 26 games, but let's not lose sight of the fact that despite Crabbe's numbers being down right now he shot 42% for a full season last year and he's got some physical attributes - like a 7 foot wingspan - that Harris simply doesn't have.

[Prokorov]

Yes - he is slightly better at everything. Shooting, passing, defending. You can throw all of their similar numbers you want out there, over a small sample size it's not that relevant. There is a reason why it has been Crabbe taking and hitting big shots at the end of games more often than Harris. It's not because of their salaries. He has been on the floor more often because he is the better player.

1) if he is a better shooter, why isnt he shooting better. oh and its not just this year, go back to the early crabbe thread where i showed harris was better in stand still catch a nd shoot he just took a higher percentage of off dribble and off screen threes.

2) how is crabbe a better passer?

3) how is crabbe a better cutter or better inside the 3 point stripe?

4) how is crabbe better at hitting big shots? he has hit liek 2. harris has hit 3 or 4.

Come on, you don't think Crabbe has more upside? Joe Harris has never scored 20 points in an NBA game. You can beat the drum of them being identical players all you want based on their numbers from the first 26 games, but let's not lose sight of the fact that despite Crabbe's numbers being down right now he shot 42% for a full season last year and he's got some physical attributes - like a 7 foot wingspan - that Harris simply doesn't have.

No i dont think he has more upside. "never scored 20 points in a game". crabbe has only done it a few times and thats playing more games and more minutes. their scoring averages, especially per36 are similar. crabbe isnt some 20 ppg scorer. he doesnt really score much at all... and givensimilar opportunity (liek this year) harris has poved to be just as productive while shooting better. meanwhile crabbe has proven that with more volume he cant maintain his percentages

its great crabbe has a longer wingspan. doesnt help him much. and harris is quicker and moves better without the ball. better inside the 3 point arc

other then free throws crabbe really doesnt do much better.

again, other then someone giving him 19m, what is there to say he has more potential then harris?

-not current play
-not prior play
-not college play
-not age
-not size
-not where they were drafted

[Netaman]

If even in a purely binary choice you don't think Crabbe is a better player than Harris there's nothing else worth discussing.

[shakendfries]

If even in a purely binary choice you don't think Crabbe is a better player than Harris there's nothing else worth discussing.

Crabbe at his best is a tertiary offensive option. All evidence points to Harris performing better in this role.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

[bws94]

Crabbe has underperformed. It's still relatively early in the season. But probably, not worth the money.

My guys on this team are RHJ, Dinwiddie, Fro and CLV. Russell is immensely talented and smooth and effective, although he's not necessarily my favorite type of player I respect his basketball talent. He's a leading talent in the NBA. Okafor may turn into a major player, but is he a defensive player? Lin is my guy too, I'd like to see him reduce his salary and contribute. His ability to change games is very underappreciated in comments I'm reading (and I don't want to get into a Lin argument either, that's my opinion and he's just one player but he's still the best choice for captain of the team, in my opinion). I love Harris as well because he has some grit and toughness. This team needs that gritty, tough player because Din, Russell and to some extent CLV are finesse player. RHJ is a gritty, unorthodox player and real fun to watch. One of the best players on the team, IMO.

DMC is immensely important as a vet on the team. If he is traded or replaced, another vet please. This team is bordering on too young and not enough vets IMO. Especially if Lin is going to be traded next season.

I want to see a stretch 4. Also a guy that has a reliable low-post game, sort of like Booker but more polished.

[MGrand15]

If we're playing Crabbe over Harris because of salary, we need to blame the coaching staff for playing favorites. Crabbe is starting over him and playing in crunch time. Blame Kenny. That's not something we should support.

He's definitely a candidate to be traded for a similar type of deal that we got for Bojan. He's been AUTOMATIC when open. (Crabbe on the other hand hovers around the same percentage whether he's open or tightly guarded which is why he's so interesting) That's really useful for a contender. Any team with tight spacing that's in playoff contention will consider him.

I don't think Stauskas or any D-Leaguer has anything to do with Harris. It's strictly a money thing plus pouncing on the opportunity to snag another 1st round pick. We're desperate for that.