Around the NBA 10

Post #221 » by **yosemiteben** » Wed Dec 13, 2017 5:05 pm

Unbelievable to me how good Porzingis is. I thought he'd be much more likely to wash out than get to the point where he is now.

catch20two · Post #222 » by **catch20two** » Sat Dec 16, 2017 2:57 am

The Sixers are so much better than us with less depth that it don’t make no sense. We’re just poorly coached by Dinosaurs.

Braggins · Post #223 » by **Braggins** » Sat Dec 16, 2017 3:09 am

catch20two wrote:The Sixers are so much better than us with less depth that it don’t make no sense. We’re just poorly coached by Dinosaurs.

Lots of people on this board mocked Philadelphia relentlessly for their tanking and acted like we were the smart organization for ending our tank. Its funny now that they are already miles ahead of us even with their top two players having less than a full season of NBA experience.

I always thought it was bizarre how much our fan base cheered on our descent back into hopeless mediocrity.

catch20two · Post #224 » by **catch20two** » Sat Dec 16, 2017 3:15 am

Braggins wrote:
catch20two wrote:The Sixers are so much better than us with less depth that it don’t make no sense. We’re just poorly coached by Dinosaurs.

Lots of people on this board mocked Philadelphia relentlessly for their tanking and acted like we were the smart organization for ending our tank. Its funny now that they are already miles ahead of us even with their top two players having less than a full season of NBA experience.

I always thought it was bizarre how much our fan base cheered on our descent into hopelessness.

We fumbled our rebuild on lack of player development, drafting players with low ceilings, and using all of our cap space on Batum & Marv. We had a glimmer of hope but the front office from the GM to the coach failed.

We had two top 5 picks and five other lottery picks. That’s 7 lottery picks. Only Kemba amounted to being more than a role player so far and he was MJ’s consolation prize pick.

Post #225 » by **yosemiteben** » Sat Dec 16, 2017 4:28 am

PHI wasted multiple years of tanking on Noel and Okafor. They had the luxury of a supportive fan base that we aren't close to having so they tolerated four consecutive seasons of intentionally unwatchable basketball, and even then their GM still got fired.

When they have no cap space due to paying Covington and Embiid it will be interesting to see what they do.

Embiid and Simmons obviously look like nice pieces, but let's not act like they are a model for player development.

catch20two · Post #226 » by **catch20two** » Sat Dec 16, 2017 4:42 am

Yea I think the city of Charlotte would’ve lost the franchise to another city had we kept up our losing ways. Stern/Silver prolly would’ve took matters into their own hands to move the team to Seattle or something. We had every opportunity to improve this team through the draft without intentionally tanking and we failed.

Braggins · Post #227 » by **Braggins** » Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:16 am

The city might still lose the franchise and if the fans won't tolerate tanking then they shouldn't expect anything more than what the team is now. Our shift of direction sent the franchise right back to desperately needing to tank again and its only been a few years... We could have just extended the original tank a couple more years and built on the core we had and wed be in infinitely better shape than we are now. Its not like being a 35 win team that caps out as a 1st round fodder if everything goes right is going to save the franchise from being sold for relocation and we'd at least have flexibility right now even if we missed on our picks.

Post #228 » by **yosemiteben** » Sat Dec 16, 2017 1:05 pm

That's just a dumb take IMO. Are you really making the argument that we could not possibly have made any different decisions (either in the draft or in FA) that would have put us in a different spot, and the only way we could have avoided our current state would have been to tank?

Braggins · Post #229 » by **Braggins** » Sat Dec 16, 2017 1:43 pm

Resetting and building through the draft was clearly the best plan of action when Cho took over and we basically abandoned that plan too early when we signed Clifford and Al and decided to chase 8th seeds. The front office could have made different decisions other than changing the course when and how they did, but they didn't and they kept doubling down every opportunity they got and now we are basically back to where we were before Cho blew it up the first time.

I'm not saying that tanking is the only way to build a team, but it was the best strategy for this franchise when Cho did it the first time and it was a mistake to not see that plan through. The front office has continually overplayed their hand the last few years and now we are capped out and toeing the luxury tax line while not being a playoff team and not having much young talent or valuable assets. We are one of the least attractive free agent destinations in the league, so even if we could clear cap room it probably wouldn't matter. At this point we probably need to try tanking again, even if its just for a season or two and not necessarily a full on Hinkie style tank.

Edit: We could and should try to hire the next Brad Stevens (had a chance to get Quinn Snyder, but we chose Dunlap/Clifford), but we can't really count on that as a strategy. If we get a new GM and coach it would still be nice to give them a couple high draft picks to add players for their system. We don't have cap space for a long time and Kemba is our only big trade asset, so we don't have great options for adding talent, other than through the draft.

chellis · Post #230 » by **chellis** » Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:17 pm

Tanking isn’t the solution in all honesty. Having a competent scouting department and player development are largely the issues. There is plenty value that can be had throughout the draft. Kwahi, Giannis, Tony Parker, Ginobili, Draymond Green, IT4, Marc Gasol, Arenas, Michae Redd went later and several teams teams missed on drafting earlier. Hell, Kobe was drafted 13th and he’s arguably a top 5 all time talent.

Point is, the tank isn’t what will give us the assets. Yes, Philly got some players that may turn out great in Embiid and Simmons, but you aren’t guaranteed anything in the league. Invest in your scouting Dept and make player development a priority. Then you’ll have huge dividends paid out.

catch20two · Post #231 » by **catch20two** » Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:26 pm

chellis wrote:Tanking isn’t the solution in all honesty. Having a competent scouting department and player development are largely the issues. There is plenty value that can be had throughout the draft. Kwahi, Giannis, Tony Parker, Ginobili, Draymond Green, IT4, Marc Gasol, Arenas, Michae Redd went later and several teams teams missed on drafting earlier. Hell, Kobe was drafted 13th and he’s arguably a top 5 all time talent.

Point is, the tank isn’t what will give us the assets. Yes, Philly got some players that may turn out great in Embiid and Simmons, but you aren’t guaranteed anything in the league. Invest in your scouting Dept and make player development a priority. Then you’ll have huge dividends paid out.

catch20two · Post #232 » by **catch20two** » Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:28 pm

I personally felt like we wasted a lot of years with Silas being the head of player development. The only player development I’ve seen out of this franchise in the past 6-7 years I’ve been following them is from Mark Price’s brief stint where he taught Kemba how to play PnR and MKG how to shoot.

Eoghan · Post #233 » by **Eoghan** » Sun Dec 17, 2017 2:29 am

Braggins wrote:The city might still lose the franchise and if the fans won't tolerate tanking then they shouldn't expect anything more than what the team is now. Our shift of direction sent the franchise right back to desperately needing to tank again and its only been a few years... We could have just extended the original tank a couple more years and built on the core we had and wed be in infinitely better shape than we are now. Its not like being a 35 win team that caps out as a 1st round fodder if everything goes right is going to save the franchise from being sold for relocation and we'd at least have flexibility right now even if we missed on our picks.

That's what I was hoping we'd do. I thought the excitement of rebranding to the Hornets would've bought the team an extra season or two of sucking but MJ got hard up for having a decent team for the All-Star game so they gave the keys to the treadmill to Al Jefferson.

Post #234 » by **Diop** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 10:37 am

Isaiah Canaan did well in his first game for Phoenix, why wouldn't we give someone like that a go?

CatgutStitches · Post #235 » by **CatgutStitches** » Wed Dec 20, 2017 4:46 pm

chellis wrote:Tanking isn’t the solution in all honesty. Having a competent scouting department and player development are largely the issues. There is plenty value that can be had throughout the draft. Kwahi, Giannis, Tony Parker, Ginobili, Draymond Green, IT4, Marc Gasol, Arenas, Michae Redd went later and several teams teams missed on drafting earlier. Hell, Kobe was drafted 13th and he’s arguably a top 5 all time talent.

Point is, the tank isn’t what will give us the assets. Yes, Philly got some players that may turn out great in Embiid and Simmons, but you aren’t guaranteed anything in the league. Invest in your scouting Dept and make player development a priority. Then you’ll have huge dividends paid out.

This.

Ive said it before and Ill say it again, there is NO evidence that a multi year tank does anything but breed a losing attitude. There are many other factors and a short sighted, multi year tank would really stress my fan-hood...it goes back to this idiotic belief that ALL that matters are championships. I like actually being competitive....even when we suck.

Vanderbilt_Grad · Post #236 » by **Vanderbilt_Grad** » Wed Dec 20, 2017 4:58 pm

CatgutStitches wrote:
chellis wrote:Tanking isn’t the solution in all honesty. Having a competent scouting department and player development are largely the issues. There is plenty value that can be had throughout the draft. Kwahi, Giannis, Tony Parker, Ginobili, Draymond Green, IT4, Marc Gasol, Arenas, Michae Redd went later and several teams teams missed on drafting earlier. Hell, Kobe was drafted 13th and he’s arguably a top 5 all time talent.

Point is, the tank isn’t what will give us the assets. Yes, Philly got some players that may turn out great in Embiid and Simmons, but you aren’t guaranteed anything in the league. Invest in your scouting Dept and make player development a priority. Then you’ll have huge dividends paid out.

This.

Ive said it before and Ill say it again, there is NO evidence that a multi year tank does anything but breed a losing attitude. There are many other factors and a short sighted, multi year tank would really stress my fan-hood...it goes back to this idiotic belief that ALL that matters are championships. I like actually being competitive....even when we suck.

Scouting & development are the keys, but tanking does have an effect. It's just that the evidence points more than one way. What tanking really does is increase the odds that your draft pick(s) will pan out and put you over the top later. Non-tanking teams tilt the odds with good scouting and development, but in theory tanking teams can too.

catch20two · Post #237 » by **catch20two** » Wed Dec 20, 2017 5:35 pm

Diop wrote:Isaiah Canaan did well in his first game for Phoenix, why wouldn't we give someone like that a go?

Because we’re maxed and capped out. I think both MCW and Stone are on guaranteed contracts without mentioning Paige’s two-way contract. Just a poor job of acquiring players and eliminating roster flexibility.

CatgutStitches · Post #238 » by **CatgutStitches** » Wed Dec 20, 2017 7:11 pm

Sure, higher draft picks are better. You will not get an argument from me on that. But look at the successful teams over the past decade...they have all been successful for different reasons (and none of them by outright, multi-season tanking I may add). Its a lot of factors, but Id much rather be competitive while trying to succeed and be a "treadmill" team worst case than have to watch (even more) garbage basketball for years...oh, and hope we dont lose our team during it.

Id love to see some young, inventive minds brought into the front office/coaching ranks....to me thats the best way to shake things up. Im a big fan of continuity in general but whatever we are doing now is not working, clearly.

catch20two · Post #239 » by **catch20two** » Thu Dec 21, 2017 4:22 am

Would’ve been nice if we could’ve drafted Kyle Kuzma. Imagine having him instead of Frank to be our stretch 4.

Post #240 » by **Diop** » Thu Dec 21, 2017 7:19 am

catch20two wrote:Would’ve been nice if we could’ve drafted Kyle Kuzma. Imagine having him instead of Frank to be our stretch 4.

Bloody 27th pick, there is so much luck in drafts.

Why couldn’t Marty mcfly go get us a future nba almanac so we know the future steals.