Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 4

[jredsaz]

For tankers this next stretch is big. Games a against Mavs, Clips, Kings, and two against the Grizz over the next 7.

[carey]

Bulls win another. Thats 5 straight!

We are now only 1 game out of the 3rd pick.

Oh man, it is so early in the season for this stuff. I can't do it for another 4 months.

[gaspar]

Read on Twitter

[Skillmatic]

I have a question. Can we still pick up Derrick Jones from our gleague team after we waived him? Would like him to get minutes now. He improved his 3pt shooting in the gleague. He is still a 3 and D prospect for me. Or isn't it possible after waiving him?

[bigfoot]

I have a question. Can we still pick up Derrick Jones from our gleague team after we waived him? Would like him to get minutes now. He improved his 3pt shooting in the gleague. He is still a 3 and D prospect for me. Or isn't it possible after waiving him?

I would imagine we could sign him to a 10-day contract or a two-way contract if we made a trade where we sent out more players than we got back or if we waived cheap players that we got back. Basically if we can get our roster size under 17 players then there is a spot available to sign Jones.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Question on Jones. Are they allowed to sign him to a two way contract or is that not allowed since he's been on the active roster over 45 days this season?

[nevetsov]

I think you can only have 2 two ways at a time, so one of House or Peters would have to make way for starters.

Even then, there's he complexity on having DJJ already technically on our books.

[jcsunsfan]

Read on Twitter

Nice read in this "all the nba players hate the Suns" world.

[Qwigglez]

Is there anyway we can get Lavine from the Bulls? I think a Lavine/Booker backcourt would be lights out offensively. Lavine isn't known as a passer but he's only 22. He has a quick release on his 3 that reminds me of Curry and he drives to the hoop aggressively like Westbrook.
Doubt they trade him since he was likely the main piece coming back for them from the Butler trade. Though Lauri and Dunn are playing surprisingly well so far this year.

[Son of Ra]

Is there anyway we can get Lavine from the Bulls? I think a Lavine/Booker backcourt would be lights out offensively. Lavine isn't known as a passer but he's only 22. He has a quick release on his 3 that reminds me of Curry and he drives to the hoop aggressively like Westbrook.
Doubt they trade him since he was likely the main piece coming back for them from the Butler trade. Though Lauri and Dunn are playing surprisingly well so far this year.

They'd maybe do it for our first. That's about it imo. Lavine is money. Considering our record with high picks I'd probably do that.
Flame me

[jcsunsfan]

Is there anyway we can get Lavine from the Bulls? I think a Lavine/Booker backcourt would be lights out offensively. Lavine isn't known as a passer but he's only 22. He has a quick release on his 3 that reminds me of Curry and he drives to the hoop aggressively like Westbrook.
Doubt they trade him since he was likely the main piece coming back for them from the Butler trade. Though Lauri and Dunn are playing surprisingly well so far this year.

I am beginning to the think that Trae Young is the guy to play with Booker. The good news is that if that is so, we should be able to get him in this draft--if not with the Miami pick, then with our own pick.

This team needs a passer and shooter. LaVine is not the answer.

[NavLDO]

Stuff like this:

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2017/12/11/16760590/lebron-james-houston-rockets-free-agency

Is the reason why we should continue to tank just a few more years.

Philly and Minnesota are the scariest young teams in the NBA and they got that way by tanking.

A few more years of pain guys. And remember, Philly wasted lotto picks on Okafor, Noel, and MCW. They hit on Embiid, Simmmons. They kinda hit on Saric. Jury is out on Fultz.

We wasted picks on Len, We hit on Booker. We kinda hit on TJ.

We just need one more hit. ONE more hit. PLUS we need one of JJ/Chriss/Bender to get it together.

Is what Minnesota Fans were saying in 2009...

'06 - 6th - Roy...oops, I mean Foye...
'07 - 7th - Brewer
'08 - 3rd - Mayo (traded for Love, later traded for Wiggins/Bennett)
'09 - 5th - Rubio & 6th - Flynn
'10 - 4th - Wes Johnson
'11 - 2nd - Derrick Williams
'13 - 9th - Burke
'14 - 13th - Lavine (coulda had Warren )
'15 - 1st - KAT
'16 - 5th - Dunn
'17 - 7th - Markkanen (traded for Butler)

So...yeah, the Wolves were 'chasing' that last piece to go with Love for how many years???

And with Philly, they lucked out so incredibly much, they proceeded to get 1st and 3rd overall picks...the best we've managed is 4th twice. Philly's had shots at Fultz, Simmons with the 1st overall, and Embiid, Okafor with the 3rd overall. The point is, we are not likely to pick that high. This year? Sure, but by season's start, there is no reason for us not to have our HC, PG, and C positions figured out, and our Starting SG, SF, and PF identified...

...shall I beat my dead horse once more? Naw, I'll stop there on that point, but I will say this...

...that by 'tanking' a few more years, as you put it, we are seriously jeopardizing the mindset of these younger kids. I know a lot of you think that 'treadmilling' by being the 7th or 8th seed for a few years is the worst thing we could do, but I disagree. Because at least then (since we are in the West, not the East), that means we are winning more games than losing, and that means a lot to the young competitive athlete psyche. Another year of losing, and Booker, Bender, JJ, an Chriss may as well be done for. They'll start to believe that's the norm, and to me, one of two things will happen:

1) They'll look to go to greener pastures, even if the money isn't as good, because it's a lot more fun to win than lose...or...
2) They'll just play for themselves, even more so than they already do. No 'team chemistry' to build upon, which honestly, does have an effect upon team performance overall, so the team will just continue to lose, IMO.

No, this year has to be it. If not, they should probably scrap McD (and Sarver, as the billboards recommend), and get what they can get for the young guys we have; maybe keep Warren since he's on a good contract, but Booker?? JJ?? Try to get as many picks as we can for those guys. Bender and Chriss...see if we can get a pick for both, as well. Keep Knight and Dudley. Dump Chandler. See if we can't keep Len somehow, then, with our new shiny 2018 pick we selected (hopefully, a PG), and go from there, and start all over...almost.

Crazy, I know, but better to get something from Booker before he leaves on his own, or ends up being too 'tainted' to salvage. Or, we could try something like that now, before the draft this next year, but keep Booker...

Sorry, now I'm off on a tangent, I'll put in a new post... (...and the crowd goes crazy with excitement 'yaaayyyyyy.... what a great idea, Nav!!! ')

[NavLDO]

Ok, what you all have been anxiously awaiting...

What if McD spearheaded a massive trade effort across several teams that are not firing on all cylinders, though should be based upon young talent. Maybe some guys just aren't working together; maybe some were just not built with the best 'fore-thought' (McD). Or what if some have just been derailed by some injuries or other situations (like us, as well), and maybe thee young guys just need a change of scenery.

For instance...the Bulls are sitting on 2 talented PGs (Dunn/Grant) and have a potential guy in Payne, if he ever stays healthy. They also have 3 guys at PF--Markkanen, Portis, and Mirotic. Yet they at SF, I dare say they are 1 deep, and SG, they've got no one until Lavone comes back.

Orlando is sitting on 2 Centers-Vucevic and Biyombo, and two highly talented PFs in Isaac and Gordon. They've got Founier and a big disappointment in Hezonja at SF. Yet they also have nothing at SG, and not much at PG.

Charlotte has MCW and Kemba at PG, and while MCW is far from stellar, when you look at our roster, well, shoot, he's a decent upgrade, if provided the opportunity, I bet. They have Frank the tank, at PF, Monk as their new SG behind Lamb...

Anyway, we could try something radical and try to unload all of our players for picks, and see ifthese teams would go for that, and we could try to completely rebuild build that way, in one year...

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y9cn4nn9

Bulls try a different Center in Vucevic, Give Bender a new environment to replace Portis, the hot-head, they get a desperately needed SG in Monk, who desperately needs a new environment as well, and get a vastly upgraded SF in Warren. For Warren and Bender, we get their 2018 1st.

Charlotte, since we are taking on Dwight, takes on two Centers in Chandler and RoLo. They also get a HUGE upgrade at SF in Aaron Gordon, and they get a young PF in Chriss. Since we also are taking Batum off their hands for FOUR years, they are happy to give us their 2018 1st Rd pick, since they just got 2 top 10 picks at SF and PF, and gave up $45M per in the process.

Orlando needs Guard help, so we give them BK and Daniels. They get Dunn from Chicago, and to 'buffer' the loss of Gordon, they get Portis from the Bulls. Sadly, since they are doing us a favor in taking BK, we pass along our 2018 2nd, which should be in the VERY low 30s.

So, this leaves us with...well...not much, player wise. We have Dwight the 'dweam' at Center for the 2018-'19 season, and Batum until the end of time, but we do successfully unload BK and Chandler, so we trade $27M for $45M and 2 x 2018 lotto 1sts, with which we can start our one year rebuild, because we will have the Bulls, Charlotte's, ours, and Miami's 1st Rd picks, or, without the lotto, would be picks, 3, 4, 7, and 14. So with those, McD could surely get our Center, PF, and PG of the future, since our starting unit would consist of Booker and JJ (kept JJ since he's the least tainted right now and our best chance for development) and not much else...

Ulis / Booker / JJ / Dudley / Howard or Len or Monroe

Since this draft is loaded with PF and Center talent, at the top, and only one or two PGs, it will depend on how it shakes out, but if what some others say is true, and Doncic can play a 'mean' PG, then we could conceivably draft Doncic, Bamba, Bagley and say Bridges.

...that's one scenario...

...Or we could do a round robin of players, if GMs/Personnel guys/Head Coaches could get over themselves, and their egos, and think about what is best for their teams, and maybe do a redistribution of players so that each team benefits from players at positions of need....

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y7b92cty

...something a little less drastic. we really only bring in positions of need, and swap out Warren, Chriss, and Bender and try our hand with Biyombo, Lamb, Grant, and Portis. At first glance you think'no f'n way', but we'd dump BK in the process, and these players are all playing well above Bender and Chriss. Warren is the only one out-playing them.

Orlando would need incentive to give up Gordon in the way of a 1st, but other than that, it would likely help everyone out in some capacity.

[Phnxsports]

In ABQ for holiday. Watching Ayton live interested to see kid.

[AtheJ415]

I never said 12ppg per game by age 20. He's wrong and is blatantly misrepresenting what has been posted. I have said that players who don't score on average 9pts per game in their first two seasons combined, irregardless of age, probably aren't going to turn into all-stars or all-NBA players. Plenty of 21-22 year olds don't cut within their first two seasons. Why would it be any different for 18 year olds.

Also note, Tobias hasn't met either of those two requirements yet. He also didn't get much of an opportunity for playing time his first two season with the Bucks and had he not been traded might already be out of the league. Sadly, Bender and Chriss are barely averaging 5-6 pts in their second season while getting decent minutes and that is pretty damn bad for fans. AtheJ415 is still shaking his pom-poms for those two because they were an integral part of his pro-tank philosophy which is throwing treads at a rapid clip. I hope one of them pans out but not holding my breath for anything other than a role player. Two busts would be the worst case.

Okay, then in their first 2 seasons. Tobias Harris didn't do that either. Also, doing it by age actually helps my argument since Chriss and Bender are as young as you can possibly be in their first 2 seasons, but hey, why use statistical history of the NBA or logic?

Neither were an integral part of my pro tank philosophy. I don't think they are busts like you, but I wanted us to tank better and get higher picks like Ben Simmons and Towns. Guess what? Thanks to us playing the PJ Tuckers and Tyson Chandlers of the world, we ended up with lower picks and had to take those 2.

We had the second best odds and picked fourth last year. Drafted Booker - the Suns player with by far the best odds of being All NBA - at 12.

That happens. The lottery isn't a sure thing. What is sure though, is that the odds are better the worse you finish, and the higher the pick the more likely you are to get a great player. Booker was pure luck. Nobody thought he would be what he ended up being, INCLUDING US. Same with Kawhi. But if you want to cling to that type of hope, you are literally ignoring the entire statistical history of the NBA. It is VERY clear that your best odds of drafting a superstar occur at the top of the draft, not 12th, not 8th, not where random example of player X who slipped and ended up way better than anybody expected. It is really clear.

[jredsaz]

Okay, then in their first 2 seasons. Tobias Harris didn't do that either. Also, doing it by age actually helps my argument since Chriss and Bender are as young as you can possibly be in their first 2 seasons, but hey, why use statistical history of the NBA or logic?

Neither were an integral part of my pro tank philosophy. I don't think they are busts like you, but I wanted us to tank better and get higher picks like Ben Simmons and Towns. Guess what? Thanks to us playing the PJ Tuckers and Tyson Chandlers of the world, we ended up with lower picks and had to take those 2.

We had the second best odds and picked fourth last year. Drafted Booker - the Suns player with by far the best odds of being All NBA - at 12.

That happens. The lottery isn't a sure thing. What is sure though, is that the odds are better the worse you finish, and the higher the pick the more likely you are to get a great player. Booker was pure luck. Nobody thought he would be what he ended up being, INCLUDING US. Same with Kawhi. But if you want to cling to that type of hope, you are literally ignoring the entire statistical history of the NBA. It is VERY clear that your best odds of drafting a superstar occur at the top of the draft, not 12th, not 8th, not where random example of player X who slipped and ended up way better than anybody expected. It is really clear.

I agree but to use that as the only mechanism to improve, like you consistantly argue, is not a sound strategy.

[AtheJ415]

We had the second best odds and picked fourth last year. Drafted Booker - the Suns player with by far the best odds of being All NBA - at 12.

That happens. The lottery isn't a sure thing. What is sure though, is that the odds are better the worse you finish, and the higher the pick the more likely you are to get a great player. Booker was pure luck. Nobody thought he would be what he ended up being, INCLUDING US. Same with Kawhi. But if you want to cling to that type of hope, you are literally ignoring the entire statistical history of the NBA. It is VERY clear that your best odds of drafting a superstar occur at the top of the draft, not 12th, not 8th, not where random example of player X who slipped and ended up way better than anybody expected. It is really clear.

I agree but to use that as the only mechanism to improve, like you consistantly argue, is not a sound strategy.

When have I ever argued it is the only mechanism to improve? I have repeatedly been a fan of improvement in FA. My only contingency to that is to get somebody who fits our age group and is actually worth their salaries. Much of this board wants an aging, near retirement grizzled vet who is at the end of their prime, or to trade youth for said vet, which is inherently more risky and stupid. I am all for improving via FA. I am not for a trade unless it maintains our flexibility to grab another main piece in FA, or else fits our age group. People here don't want that. They want George Hill, Ricky Rubio, Mike Conley, or Marc Gasol, and they want to trade half the youth or multiple picks to do it. I cannot overstate how incredibly stupid I believe that logic is. I am 1000% against losing our FA flexibility or youth, let alone pieces of both, for any of those players or any players in similar situations to them.

As far as this season goes, the reality is the draft should be the priority along with youth development. Wins should not be the priority. That is simply a logical realization of where we are as a team, and it is very clearly the best path forward.

[KLEON]

Is Troy Daniels under contract for next season?

[RaisingArizona]

Is Troy Daniels under contract for next season?

Yes

[Qwigglez]

Is there anyway we can get Lavine from the Bulls? I think a Lavine/Booker backcourt would be lights out offensively. Lavine isn't known as a passer but he's only 22. He has a quick release on his 3 that reminds me of Curry and he drives to the hoop aggressively like Westbrook.
Doubt they trade him since he was likely the main piece coming back for them from the Butler trade. Though Lauri and Dunn are playing surprisingly well so far this year.

They'd maybe do it for our first. That's about it imo. Lavine is money. Considering our record with high picks I'd probably do that.
Flame me

I'd likely do it giving them our pick if it's top 3 protected. Booker/Lavine could swap running PG, and we should consider giving Booker the Harden type role anyhow. I don't think we need a traditional PG at all. The way the league is trending it really isn't required, plus getting a scoring PG such as Lavine, would require teams to play him tight and that would lead to open shots to other teammates.