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Game 31: Suns (9-21) at Timberwolves (17-12), Saturday, December 16th, 6 PM MST

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Re: Game 31: Suns (9-21) at Timberwolves (17-12), Saturday, December 16th, 6 PM MST 

Post#161 » by jcsunsfan » Sun Dec 17, 2017 4:16 am

darealjuice wrote:
jcsunsfan wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:Maybe but this really just highlights how bad our PG rotation is when journeyman can come in and outplay our starting PG in his first game.

Tyler Ulis does not belong in the NBA. He is Devin’s friend. That is why he is here. 3rd string then. Keep Devin happy.


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The only player to get SEC DPOY and POY in the same year besides Anthony Davis doesn't belong in the NBA lol? He definitely shouldn't start, but he would have been drafted in 2016 regardless of if the Suns picked him or not.

That is correct. He is clearly overmatched. His nba defense is horrible and he is a turnover machine. Lots of players drafted don’t belong in the nba. You take a flyer and see. We have now seen.


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Re: Game 31: Suns (9-21) at Timberwolves (17-12), Saturday, December 16th, 6 PM MST 

Post#162 » by AtheJ415 » Sun Dec 17, 2017 4:19 am

lilfishi22 wrote:
AtheJ415 wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:Also trade Booker. Don't need him. We're now 1-9 without him. Trending upwards!



We just need to make sure we get somebody awesome like George Hill. Gotta get that mid lottery pick. It's way better than a high pick. If we can get a mediocre, aging, and incredibly expensive C we can maybe even get into the playoffs even though we really have no prayer and would at best finish 11th in conference. Sounds much better.

When our high picks have been JJ, Bender, Chriss, Len while our mid-late lotto picks are Booker, Warren.... :dontknow: :dontknow: :dontknow:


When, if we didn't stick with the PJ Tucker's and Tyson Chandler's of the world, those high picks would have been guys like Simmons, Fultz, etc.. But hey, let's ignore the entire history of the NBA draft and instead focus on our recent picks from very different drafts while ignoring that many of our high picks have been in weak drafts with clear players at the top that we never got the chance to draft because we didn't take well enough. The history and math is clear--the higher the pick, the better chance you have of getting a better player. Nobody is saying it is a sure thing or will always be the case, but it is VERY clear. To argue irrelevance or that it doesn't matter is to idiotically ignore the history of the draft for a good 40 years, and takes a willful ignorance of fact.
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Re: Game 31: Suns (9-21) at Timberwolves (17-12), Saturday, December 16th, 6 PM MST 

Post#163 » by AtheJ415 » Sun Dec 17, 2017 4:21 am

jcsunsfan wrote:
darealjuice wrote:
jcsunsfan wrote:Tyler Ulis does not belong in the NBA. He is Devin’s friend. That is why he is here. 3rd string then. Keep Devin happy.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app


The only player to get SEC DPOY and POY in the same year besides Anthony Davis doesn't belong in the NBA lol? He definitely shouldn't start, but he would have been drafted in 2016 regardless of if the Suns picked him or not.

That is correct. He is clearly overmatched. His nba defense is horrible and he is a turnover machine. Lots of players drafted don’t belong in the nba. You take a flyer and see. We have now seen.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app



Just a horrible misjudgment of a player based on a 30 game span. I can pick 30 games last year where he put up monster numbers as a starter. Something like 20 and 9. He has struggled this year and will have to improve his jumper so that guys can't play him the same way on offense. I don't know what you do defensively. He has the same issue IT has where the problems are not really fixable on that end, but it is WAY too early to write him off.
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Re: Game 31: Suns (9-21) at Timberwolves (17-12), Saturday, December 16th, 6 PM MST 

Post#164 » by jcsunsfan » Sun Dec 17, 2017 4:32 am

AtheJ415 wrote:
jcsunsfan wrote:
darealjuice wrote:
The only player to get SEC DPOY and POY in the same year besides Anthony Davis doesn't belong in the NBA lol? He definitely shouldn't start, but he would have been drafted in 2016 regardless of if the Suns picked him or not.

That is correct. He is clearly overmatched. His nba defense is horrible and he is a turnover machine. Lots of players drafted don’t belong in the nba. You take a flyer and see. We have now seen.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app



Just a horrible misjudgment of a player based on a 30 game span. I can pick 30 games last year where he put up monster numbers as a starter. Something like 20 and 9. He has struggled this year and will have to improve his jumper so that guys can't play him the same way on offense. I don't know what you do defensively. He has the same issue IT has where the problems are not really fixable on that end, but it is WAY too early to write him off.

Nope. He was a gimmick last year. He was easy to figure out. Other teams have.


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Re: Game 31: Suns (9-21) at Timberwolves (17-12), Saturday, December 16th, 6 PM MST 

Post#165 » by Hesh » Sun Dec 17, 2017 4:42 am

Man it was really nice seeing Len's passing game today. Never to be seen before. The Monroe effect?
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Re: Game 31: Suns (9-21) at Timberwolves (17-12), Saturday, December 16th, 6 PM MST 

Post#166 » by lilfishi22 » Sun Dec 17, 2017 4:44 am

AtheJ415 wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:
AtheJ415 wrote:

We just need to make sure we get somebody awesome like George Hill. Gotta get that mid lottery pick. It's way better than a high pick. If we can get a mediocre, aging, and incredibly expensive C we can maybe even get into the playoffs even though we really have no prayer and would at best finish 11th in conference. Sounds much better.

When our high picks have been JJ, Bender, Chriss, Len while our mid-late lotto picks are Booker, Warren.... :dontknow: :dontknow: :dontknow:


When, if we didn't stick with the PJ Tucker's and Tyson Chandler's of the world, those high picks would have been guys like Simmons, Fultz, etc.. But hey, let's ignore the entire history of the NBA draft and instead focus on our recent picks from very different drafts while ignoring that many of our high picks have been in weak drafts with clear players at the top that we never got the chance to draft because we didn't take well enough. The history and math is clear--the higher the pick, the better chance you have of getting a better player. Nobody is saying it is a sure thing or will always be the case, but it is VERY clear. To argue irrelevance or that it doesn't matter is to idiotically ignore the history of the draft for a good 40 years, and takes a willful ignorance of fact.

That's like saying, if we didn't pick Len, we would've taken Giannis. We took the guys we took, in the draft position we were in. it is what it is. To say if we didn't do this, we didn't do that, had the lottery balls had fallen our way etc and we would've ended up with Simmons, Fultz etc... there's soooo many factors involved which you ignore. The fact is, we had a great opportunity to draft the right players when we had the picks we had and what we've seen is Len bust, Bender and Chriss not showing as much as we would like while Warren and Booker playing way above expectations.

What if we played to expectation (bottom 5 team) the season before we picked Booker? Maybe we end up with the 3rd pick and take Jah or we end up with the 8th pick and take a Kaminsky. Or maybe, we should've drafted better in 2013 and picked up CJ or Adams instead? If we're talking about history and maths, the Suns have historically never won the draft lottery, so could we really have got Simmons and Fultz? Statistically we've had VERY good chances to win a #1 pick but history has not been kind to us. So who knows, even if we did tank, does that mean we would've had a chance at Fultz, Simmons? Maybe, maybe not.

Would I be mad if we ended up taking Ayton, Doncic? Hell no. But who knows if they would be available when we pick them even if we were the worst team. We've seen the worst team in the league pick #3, #4 and #5.
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Re: Game 31: Suns (9-21) at Timberwolves (17-12), Saturday, December 16th, 6 PM MST 

Post#167 » by carey » Sun Dec 17, 2017 4:50 am

I'll take what Cannan did tonight as confirmation that any G-League starting PG can come in and play about as well as Mike James.
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Re: Game 31: Suns (9-21) at Timberwolves (17-12), Saturday, December 16th, 6 PM MST 

Post#168 » by AtheJ415 » Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:06 am

lilfishi22 wrote:
AtheJ415 wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:When our high picks have been JJ, Bender, Chriss, Len while our mid-late lotto picks are Booker, Warren.... :dontknow: :dontknow: :dontknow:


When, if we didn't stick with the PJ Tucker's and Tyson Chandler's of the world, those high picks would have been guys like Simmons, Fultz, etc.. But hey, let's ignore the entire history of the NBA draft and instead focus on our recent picks from very different drafts while ignoring that many of our high picks have been in weak drafts with clear players at the top that we never got the chance to draft because we didn't take well enough. The history and math is clear--the higher the pick, the better chance you have of getting a better player. Nobody is saying it is a sure thing or will always be the case, but it is VERY clear. To argue irrelevance or that it doesn't matter is to idiotically ignore the history of the draft for a good 40 years, and takes a willful ignorance of fact.

That's like saying, if we didn't pick Len, we would've taken Giannis. We took the guys we took, in the draft position we were in. it is what it is. To say if we didn't do this, we didn't do that, had the lottery balls had fallen our way etc and we would've ended up with Simmons, Fultz etc... there's soooo many factors involved which you ignore. The fact is, we had a great opportunity to draft the right players when we had the picks we had and what we've seen is Len bust, Bender and Chriss not showing as much as we would like while Warren and Booker playing way above expectations.

What if we played to expectation (bottom 5 team) the season before we picked Booker? Maybe we end up with the 3rd pick and take Jah or we end up with the 8th pick and take a Kaminsky. Or maybe, we should've drafted better in 2013 and picked up CJ or Adams instead? If we're talking about history and maths, the Suns have historically never won the draft lottery, so could we really have got Simmons and Fultz? Statistically we've had VERY good chances to win a #1 pick but history has not been kind to us. So who knows, even if we did tank, does that mean we would've had a chance at Fultz, Simmons? Maybe, maybe not.

Would I be mad if we ended up taking Ayton, Doncic? Hell no. But who knows if they would be available when we pick them even if we were the worst team. We've seen the worst team in the league pick #3, #4 and #5.



What? It is nothing like saying that. Nothing at all. Giannis was a guy that nobody, including the Bucks, ever expected to be all that good, let alone the best player in the draft class. Saying the Suns would have taken the consensus best player heading into the respective draft (like Simmons and Fultz were for the entire year leading up to the draft and at the time of the draft) if they had the top spot is NOTHING like that. It is hardly a reach at all.
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Re: Game 31: Suns (9-21) at Timberwolves (17-12), Saturday, December 16th, 6 PM MST 

Post#169 » by Capn'O » Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:50 am

Who is that guy and what did he do to Alex Len?

I've noticed he's been + in the +/- stats lately, which wasn't the case earlier. Something seems to have clicked with him, no?
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Re: Game 31: Suns (9-21) at Timberwolves (17-12), Saturday, December 16th, 6 PM MST 

Post#170 » by sunsbum » Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:01 am

Capn'O wrote:Who is that guy and what did he do to Alex Len?

I've noticed he's been + in the +/- stats lately, which wasn't the case earlier. Something seems to have clicked with him, no?


They were trying to make him a stretch 5 all these years, we finally gave that up, told him to go rebound, defend and block shots..we still aren't sure if this is contract year fools gold and is his price going to be worth what he can limitedly do on the offensive end.
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Re: Game 31: Suns (9-21) at Timberwolves (17-12), Saturday, December 16th, 6 PM MST 

Post#171 » by Qwigglez » Sun Dec 17, 2017 11:22 am

jcsunsfan wrote:
darealjuice wrote:
jcsunsfan wrote:Tyler Ulis does not belong in the NBA. He is Devin’s friend. That is why he is here. 3rd string then. Keep Devin happy.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app


The only player to get SEC DPOY and POY in the same year besides Anthony Davis doesn't belong in the NBA lol? He definitely shouldn't start, but he would have been drafted in 2016 regardless of if the Suns picked him or not.

That is correct. He is clearly overmatched. His nba defense is horrible and he is a turnover machine. Lots of players drafted don’t belong in the nba. You take a flyer and see. We have now seen.


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He's still growing as a player/person, give him time! :lol:
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Re: Game 31: Suns (9-21) at Timberwolves (17-12), Saturday, December 16th, 6 PM MST 

Post#172 » by Saberestar » Sun Dec 17, 2017 11:57 am

Qwigglez wrote:
jcsunsfan wrote:
darealjuice wrote:
The only player to get SEC DPOY and POY in the same year besides Anthony Davis doesn't belong in the NBA lol? He definitely shouldn't start, but he would have been drafted in 2016 regardless of if the Suns picked him or not.

That is correct. He is clearly overmatched. His nba defense is horrible and he is a turnover machine. Lots of players drafted don’t belong in the nba. You take a flyer and see. We have now seen.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app



He's still growing as a player/person, give him time! :lol:

Yeah, I think that he just needs to improve his shooting a little bit and get stronger. These two things are relatively easy to fix.

He is struggling fighting with starting PGs in the league, but I like him like a backup PG. It is not his fault that we do not have an starting PG.
He can lead a second unit and his defense improves if he can use all his energy in those 15-18 minutes per game.

It's not black or white regarding players. He is not an All Star but he belongs to the NBA.
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Re: Game 31: Suns (9-21) at Timberwolves (17-12), Saturday, December 16th, 6 PM MST 

Post#173 » by ImNotMcDiSwear » Sun Dec 17, 2017 2:52 pm

Saberestar wrote:
Qwigglez wrote:
jcsunsfan wrote:That is correct. He is clearly overmatched. His nba defense is horrible and he is a turnover machine. Lots of players drafted don’t belong in the nba. You take a flyer and see. We have now seen.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app



He's still growing as a player/person, give him time! :lol:

Yeah, I think that he just needs to improve his shooting a little bit and get stronger. These two things are relatively easy to fix.

He is struggling fighting with starting PGs in the league, but I like him like a backup PG. It is not his fault that we do not have an starting PG.
He can lead a second unit and his defense improve if he can use all his energy in those 15-18 minutes per game.

It's not black or white regarding players. He is not an All Star but he belongs to the NBA.


The biggest problem I have with Ulis is that I don't have any problems with his defense. He plays the right way. But if he's rotating onto a three point shooter, that shot is going up uncontested. If the opposing PG is a scorer, he can and will get to his spot and make his shot. If Ulis has to rotate off his assignment, the team has to adjust immediately to get Ulis onto the next-shortest player. None of these things can be adjusted for or improved upon. They are what they will always be.

Add to that the fact that Ulis low-key pounds the ball a bit and cannot hit a pull up three, and you have a 3rd stringer on your hands. Not a sparkplug off the bench, but a backup sparkplug.
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Re: Game 31: Suns (9-21) at Timberwolves (17-12), Saturday, December 16th, 6 PM MST 

Post#174 » by RunDogGun » Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:15 pm

Finally got to watch the game, great from the bench. Bummed that I could have gone to the game, but circumstances prohibited that.

Ulis isn’t a starting point guard, well not yet. I like how he gets under the opposing team’s guard’s skin, but he doesn’t have enough of an offensive game to make them pay. His passing in traffic is not good to his big men. Often there were bounce passes, which were too low or in too much traffic. Canaan did a better job at this last night, but similar troubles going above screens, and slacking off his man.

Chriss just doesn’t seem to have worked on his game at all this offseason. There are zero goto moves, no solid midrange shots. Bender is better, but lacks confidence, and his passes are too soft.

Warren couldn’t hit any shots, and starting him and Jackson is bad when this is happening, for Jackson has had a tough time lately hitting open shots. Both force up shots when their feet aren’t set. Their defense is getting better, but can’t make the other team pay.

Len played better than Chandler.

The Suns have to figure out a way to ride the hot hands, and set screens to get those guys open. Chriss should be setting screens all night long, and learning to roll off of those screens and have hands ready to make the play. He also needs to learn how to finish.

Bummed I missed the game, it would have been fun to be there, and wear all my Suns gear. I’ll make for it today at the gym. The question is to wear my Nash, Marion, or Stat jersey.
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Re: Game 31: Suns (9-21) at Timberwolves (17-12), Saturday, December 16th, 6 PM MST 

Post#175 » by ImNotMcDiSwear » Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:31 pm

RunDogGun wrote:Finally got to watch the game, great from the bench. Bummed that I could have gone to the game, but circumstances prohibited that.

Ulis isn’t a starting point guard, well not yet. I like how he gets under the opposing team’s guard’s skin, but he doesn’t have enough of an offensive game to make them pay. His passing in traffic is not good to his big men. Often there were bounce passes, which were too low or in too much traffic. Canaan did a better job at this last night, but similar troubles going above screens, and slacking off his man.

Chriss just doesn’t seem to have worked on his game at all this offseason. There are zero goto moves, no solid midrange shots. Bender is better, but lacks confidence, and his passes are too soft.

Warren couldn’t hit any shots, and starting him and Jackson is bad when this is happening, for Jackson has had a tough time lately hitting open shots. Both force up shots when their feet aren’t set. Their defense is getting better, but can’t make the other team pay.

Len played better than Chandler.

The Suns have to figure out a way to ride the hot hands, and set screens to get those guys open. Chriss should be setting screens all night long, and learning to roll off of those screens and have hands ready to make the play. He also needs to learn how to finish.

Bummed I missed the game, it would have been fun to be there, and wear all my Suns gear. I’ll make for it today at the gym. The question is to wear my Nash, Marion, or Stat jersey.


That arena sees enough #13. Go with the Matrix or STAT.
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Re: Game 31: Suns (9-21) at Timberwolves (17-12), Saturday, December 16th, 6 PM MST 

Post#176 » by jcsunsfan » Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:18 pm

cosmofizzo wrote:
Saberestar wrote:
Qwigglez wrote:

He's still growing as a player/person, give him time! :lol:

Yeah, I think that he just needs to improve his shooting a little bit and get stronger. These two things are relatively easy to fix.

He is struggling fighting with starting PGs in the league, but I like him like a backup PG. It is not his fault that we do not have an starting PG.
He can lead a second unit and his defense improve if he can use all his energy in those 15-18 minutes per game.

It's not black or white regarding players. He is not an All Star but he belongs to the NBA.


The biggest problem I have with Ulis is that I don't have any problems with his defense. He plays the right way. But if he's rotating onto a three point shooter, that shot is going up uncontested. If the opposing PG is a scorer, he can and will get to his spot and make his shot. If Ulis has to rotate off his assignment, the team has to adjust immediately to get Ulis onto the next-shortest player. None of these things can be adjusted for or improved upon. They are what they will always be.

Add to that the fact that Ulis low-key pounds the ball a bit and cannot hit a pull up three, and you have a 3rd stringer on your hands. Not a sparkplug off the bench, but a backup sparkplug.


I agree with this. I also think that its pretty easy to find a 3rd pg that is better than Ulis.
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Re: Game 31: Suns (9-21) at Timberwolves (17-12), Saturday, December 16th, 6 PM MST 

Post#177 » by Damkac » Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:18 pm

4/5 of Suns starters was 7-28 with 11 turnovers. It would be ugly if the bench didn't played so well.
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Re: Game 31: Suns (9-21) at Timberwolves (17-12), Saturday, December 16th, 6 PM MST 

Post#178 » by sunsbum » Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:46 pm

I know someone mentioned this earlier but why has Chriss stopped driving? He's essentially a worse version of Bender now.
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Re: Game 31: Suns (9-21) at Timberwolves (17-12), Saturday, December 16th, 6 PM MST 

Post#179 » by RunDogGun » Sun Dec 17, 2017 10:22 pm

cosmofizzo wrote:
RunDogGun wrote:Finally got to watch the game, great from the bench. Bummed that I could have gone to the game, but circumstances prohibited that.

Ulis isn’t a starting point guard, well not yet. I like how he gets under the opposing team’s guard’s skin, but he doesn’t have enough of an offensive game to make them pay. His passing in traffic is not good to his big men. Often there were bounce passes, which were too low or in too much traffic. Canaan did a better job at this last night, but similar troubles going above screens, and slacking off his man.

Chriss just doesn’t seem to have worked on his game at all this offseason. There are zero goto moves, no solid midrange shots. Bender is better, but lacks confidence, and his passes are too soft.

Warren couldn’t hit any shots, and starting him and Jackson is bad when this is happening, for Jackson has had a tough time lately hitting open shots. Both force up shots when their feet aren’t set. Their defense is getting better, but can’t make the other team pay.

Len played better than Chandler.

The Suns have to figure out a way to ride the hot hands, and set screens to get those guys open. Chriss should be setting screens all night long, and learning to roll off of those screens and have hands ready to make the play. He also needs to learn how to finish.

Bummed I missed the game, it would have been fun to be there, and wear all my Suns gear. I’ll make for it today at the gym. The question is to wear my Nash, Marion, or Stat jersey.


That arena sees enough #13. Go with the Matrix or STAT.

Wore my Marion jersey, but not many guys were in the gym to play hoops.
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Re: Game 31: Suns (9-21) at Timberwolves (17-12), Saturday, December 16th, 6 PM MST 

Post#180 » by jcsunsfan » Sun Dec 17, 2017 11:11 pm

Saberestar wrote:
Qwigglez wrote:
jcsunsfan wrote:That is correct. He is clearly overmatched. His nba defense is horrible and he is a turnover machine. Lots of players drafted don’t belong in the nba. You take a flyer and see. We have now seen.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app



He's still growing as a player/person, give him time! :lol:

Yeah, I think that he just needs to improve his shooting a little bit and get stronger. These two things are relatively easy to fix.

He is struggling fighting with starting PGs in the league, but I like him like a backup PG. It is not his fault that we do not have an starting PG.
He can lead a second unit and his defense improves if he can use all his energy in those 15-18 minutes per game.

It's not black or white regarding players. He is not an All Star but he belongs to the NBA.


He passes the ball to the other team. . .constantly. How is extra strength or better shooting going to help that? Man, you have to look at what is going on, on the court. He is a deer in the headlights. He constantly looks completely overmatched. Its not like Jackson or Bender who need to work on some aspects of their game.

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