Political Roundtable Part XVI

[stilldropin20]

ive been telling you guys about this for months. the Fix was in. Strzok, mccabe, Comey, Lynch, the entire obama appointed DOJ consprired to have hillary elected. And since they lost, they have now conspired to cover there tracks on many dirty deals during the entire obama administration.

Trump is going to expose them. they are scared. I told you guys months ago. These guys are going to go down. I'm guessing that the stench is so nasty that it will need to be "kept quiet." I just hope that the clinton foundation and Obama foundation gets completely shut down. I want their wealth removed. You dont get to get rich due to being in public office. Its a bad precedent. all of our future politicians will be told its OK to do what they did.

Go get em trump!

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[stilldropin20]

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[montestewart]

Here's a great idea for an experiment: invite Hands back and set up a Hands-STD exclusive thread where they can just go at it all day long, being a VP, drilling teeth, telling each other how they'd been predicting this and that all along. It would be like the Three Christs of Ypsilanti, minus one.

PS: Don't let them in other threads. It would dilute the research.

[Wizardspride]

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[Wizardspride]

So Comey/Mueller are now liberal plants by that diabolical Obama, who is secretly running a shadow government out of D.C.

We all know the REAL REASON he stayed in the city.

I wonder were Comey/Mueller "liberal plants" even when they were working in the Bush administration?

Just asking for a friend....

(Yes, they're idiots who believe this)

[Zonkerbl]

So wait... the idea that some emails you're not supposed to share with an investigator is something the Trump campaigned MOANED AND WAILED ABOUT CONSTANTLY related to HRC, but when it comes to their side getting access to those emails is a firing crime?

How stupid does Trump think we are? Just impeach the idiots already.

[Pointgod]

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And somehow it's liberals that are divisive. these to morons claim that socialism will turn the US into a third world country while the fact is the US already lags behind the developed world in a lot of factors and some parts are already like a third world country. This is just blatant misinformation and programming.

[Pointgod]

So wait... the idea that some emails you're not supposed to share with an investigator is something the Trump campaigned MOANED AND WAILED ABOUT CONSTANTLY related to HRC, but when it comes to their side getting access to those emails is a firing crime?

How stupid does Trump think we are? Just impeach the idiots already.

Remember when Trump asked Russia to hack Hillary's emails? Yeah good times.

[Wizardspride]

Does make you think....

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[dckingsfan]

And somehow it's liberals that are divisive. these to morons claim that socialism will turn the US into a third world country while the fact is the US already lags behind the developed world in a lot of factors and some parts are already like a third world country. This is just blatant misinformation and programming.

I know that this is just a reaction to a post but... we aren't a third-world country. And we are most certainly a democracy.

Is it really socialism you want? Look at Cuba, Venezuela, et. al., I think many believed the propaganda of socialism and didn't like what they got. I think that many of those that voted for Trump probably feel the same way.

Or is it a fair democracy that you want - that one takes patience and effort. Matching misinformation with misinformation probably won't get you there. Maybe put your effort into promoting local (first), state and federal candidates that you truly believe in.

[cammac]

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And somehow it's liberals that are divisive. these to morons claim that socialism will turn the US into a third world country while the fact is the US already lags behind the developed world in a lot of factors and some parts are already like a third world country. This is just blatant misinformation and programming.

On social issues I am a true believer in a socialism and so is every advanced democracy except the USA. While I disagree with Bernie Sanders on the financial impact on his policies he has brought things like single payer healthcare to millions of people who were previously misinformed. American still have this misguided idea about "Manifest Destiny" just as the Chinese have with the "Middle Kingdom". History has taught us if nothing else that power rises and falls and today's Rome can be tomorrows Italy.

The current Trump/Republican administration in everything from trade to foreign affairs is becoming more isolationist.One way you judge a country is who the leaders are friends with! In Trumps case he has better relationships with the leaders of Russia, China , Philippines, Poland, Saudi Arabia, the radical Zionists in Israel and Turkey than he does with nations who are natural allies.

In NAFTA there has been very little progress in that the USA has been totally inflexible in it's negotiations. Canadians realize that there needs to be changes in the agreement especially in bringing up the wages of Mexican workers and improved labor standards and health and safety issues across all 3 countries. Trade agreements goals should be in part bring the nations involved into a better economic situation. The current agreement hasn't done that with Mexican workers being exploited by multinationals. Disagreements need to be resolved in a timely matter a obvious one is the softwood lumber dispute between the USA and Canada. This has been resolved a number of times in Canada's favor and has been presented to the WTO again. Canada offered to establish a quota on a lower historical % of the USA market. That was rejected so Canada had to take it again to the world trade tribunal and will win again. If the Trump administration was willing to negotiate in good faith a majority of the impediments to the trade agreement would be settled. Unfortunately Canada has had to put up a united front with Mexico in the face of the intransigence of the American position. If NAFTA is dissolved it will hurt all 3 nations and many of the sectors of the American economy that voted for Trump.

Canada has forging new trade agreements with the Euro Zone and TTP and is entering with free trade agreements with China. Looking for options to increase trade into other sectors. A small example will be to American farmers who will pay duties on pork with Japan. Canadian farmers are highly competitive in pork production and can now ship duty free to Japan. American farmers grain and other commodity farm products to Mexico and that can be replaced with Canadian grains and from countries like Argentina.

Isolationism has never worked in the past and in today's technological world it is a oxymoron. Multinational companies are governments within themselves and navigate the world for their benefit with no loyalty to the country of origin. They seek tax havens around the world to hide profits all you have to do is look at the Panama Papers.

[closg00]

Does make you think....

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What a beautiful read, more Karma baby

[cammac]

And somehow it's liberals that are divisive. these to morons claim that socialism will turn the US into a third world country while the fact is the US already lags behind the developed world in a lot of factors and some parts are already like a third world country. This is just blatant misinformation and programming.

I know that this is just a reaction to a post but... we aren't a third-world country. And we are most certainly a democracy.

Is it really socialism you want? Look at Cuba, Venezuela, et. al., I think many believed the propaganda of socialism and didn't like what they got. I think that many of those that voted for Trump probably feel the same way.

Or is it a fair democracy that you want - that one takes patience and effort. Matching misinformation with misinformation probably won't get you there. Maybe put your effort into promoting local (first), state and federal candidates that you truly believe in.

Both countries you mentioned are not democracies but totalitarian states posing under a thin veneer of being socialism. The reality is that in most cases most social plans are more efficiently run at a governmental level than with a profit driven private sector. The major democracies other than the USA have better healthcare, educational and social safety nets than the USA.

[Pointgod]

Does make you think....

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[url] https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/dec/17/republicans-accused-of-concocting-email-scandal-against-robert-mueller
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[FAH1223]

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[Pointgod]

And somehow it's liberals that are divisive. these to morons claim that socialism will turn the US into a third world country while the fact is the US already lags behind the developed world in a lot of factors and some parts are already like a third world country. This is just blatant misinformation and programming.

I know that this is just a reaction to a post but... we aren't a third-world country. And we are most certainly a democracy.

Is it really socialism you want? Look at Cuba, Venezuela, et. al., I think many believed the propaganda of socialism and didn't like what they got. I think that many of those that voted for Trump probably feel the same way.

Or is it a fair democracy that you want - that one takes patience and effort. Matching misinformation with misinformation probably won't get you there. Maybe put your effort into promoting local (first), state and federal candidates that you truly believe in.

Depending on the metrics parts of America can definitely be compared to third world countries. Here are just a few examples:

https://www.attn.com/stories/5631/us-map-compares-states-countries-education-level

[url]http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/alabama-black-belt-un-poverty-expert-extreme-developed-country-sewage-crisis-roy-moore-philip-alston-a8105886.html
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Look at the ongoing water crisis in Flint. I've heard stories of teachers that have worked in schools without running water. These conditions arent acceptable in the richest country in the world.

And you're a smart guy I'm sure that you can tell me the difference between socialism in Cuba/Venezuela and Finland/Denmark and then the difference between America and Cuba/Venezuela. For every example you give me of where socialism has failed I can provide 2 examples of success and more examples of capitalist countries that have implemented socialist policies.

If you can't openly discuss problems and identify solutions without making false equivalences or whataboutism then you'll just continue to slide further into inequality.

[JWizmentality]

I can't get enough of Stupid Watergate.

Mueller is running circles around these fools.

[dckingsfan]

I am not saying - nor have I said that there aren't problems in the US. All countries have problems (even Denmark - I go there often).

I think targeting the problems in the US is key (and good). But the (implied) blanket statement that we are a third-world country just isn't the case.

And to pick Denmark as an example (your pick) vs. Venezuela (my pick) just proves the point. Denmark is clearly a democracy, Venezuela clearly is not. And Denmark is not a so called "socialist state". The Danish government is a combination of liberal and conservative. Denmark does have some aspects of its system that are socialist free school system, free medical care, income support and unemployment benefits. But, it isn't a socialist country.

A more accurate statement would be: "there are parts of the US that have some of the symptoms of a third-world country".

So, careful with the blanket statements - they may get you a Trump on the other side (Castro for example).

[dckingsfan]

The major democracies other than the USA have better healthcare, educational and social safety nets than the USA.

And that has more to do with history and structure (New Deal, the US as a benefactor country, state implementation of education, etc.) than it does with being a democracy. And we have our strengths as well - those same dollars that were spent on pharma produced great outcomes for other democracies

Historically, the New Deal was implemented before many of the safety nets in other countries - many learned from our implementation mistakes. The New Deal had some flaws (and cost drivers) that other countries wisely skirted.

And we spent a lot of our GDP rebuilding countries after the war and then foolishly trying to continue to be the worlds policeman.

I think the US has to come to grips that we can't be all that. Get down to 2% of GDP on military spending and pull back our troops across the globe - let someone else deal with China, Russia, North Korea, Iran, et. al.

We will still need to come to grips with our spending. Since the decrease in military spending won't come close to covering the costs of our expanding social services without dealing with the cost drivers. Those very same cost drivers that keep our infrastructure spending down and keep us from fixing those same issues that Pointgod points out.

[Pointgod]

I am not saying - nor have I said that there aren't problems in the US. All countries have problems (even Denmark - I go there often).

I think targeting the problems in the US is key (and good). But the (implied) blanket statement that we are a third-world country just isn't the case.

And to pick Denmark as an example (your pick) vs. Venezuela (my pick) just proves the point. Denmark is clearly a democracy, Venezuela clearly is not. And Denmark is not a so called "socialist state". The Danish government is a combination of liberal and conservative. Denmark does have some aspects of its system that are socialist free school system, free medical care, income support and unemployment benefits. But, it isn't a socialist country.

A more accurate statement would be: "there are parts of the US that have some of the symptoms of a third-world country".

So, careful with the blanket statements - they may get you a Trump on the other side (Castro for example).

Here is exactly what I said emphasis on the bolded:

And somehow it's liberals that are divisive. these to morons claim that socialism will turn the US into a third world country while the fact is the US already lags behind the developed world in a lot of factors and some parts are already like a third world country. This is just blatant misinformation and programming.

I'm very careful with my words and there's no way you can interpret what I wrote as a blanket statement.

When people speak of socialism it's in reference to countries like Denmark, Sweden, Finland, Canada etc. We know this is true because no one ever says hey let's be a socialist country like Venezuela. So there's no point bringing up those examples because they are completely irrelevant to the conversation. The problem is that the term socialism is so perverted and misrepresented in the US that it's become a dirty word. Denmark may not consider themselves socialist but I'm sure they'd be fine with the Democratic Socialism label and would scoff at any comparisons to the US system.