Star Wars Episode VIII - SPOILERS

[King of Canada]

I saw this last night in Imax 3D, and I thought it was good. My one complaint was the jokes, which after a while got a little old and seemed out of place. I don't think it was necessarily a problem with the writing, but just the fact that Mark Hamill as an actor couldn't really pull it off. If it had been Harrison Ford with the same lines they wouldn't have seemed so out of place.

Also - I think it's funny as hell that people who read the books are mad that it doesn't line up exactly, going so far as to start a petition. Books made into movies and TV shows always have been and always will be nothing more than a reference to existing material. As a reader of any series you have to approach it as "It'll be cool to see the world some alive" rather than complain that the movie wasn't an accurate recreation of the books. I've been a reader of AGOT since the 90s, and that is how I approach the TV show. It's not going to be as good as the books, and the story is going to be off in a ton of ways, but just enjoy the ride and appreciate that you get to see these things on the big screen.

[NBA Fan 1234]

I saw this last night in Imax 3D, and I thought it was good. My one complaint was the jokes, which after a while got a little old and seemed out of place. I don't think it was necessarily a problem with the writing, but just the fact that Mark Hamill as an actor couldn't really pull it off. If it had been Harrison Ford with the same lines they wouldn't have seemed so out of place.

Also - I think it's funny as hell that people who read the books are mad that it doesn't line up exactly, going so far as to start a petition. Books made into movies and TV shows always have been and always will be nothing more than a reference to existing material. As a reader of any series you have to approach it as "It'll be cool to see the world some alive" rather than complain that the movie wasn't an accurate recreation of the books. I've been a reader of AGOT since the 90s, and that is how I approach the TV show. It's not going to be as good as the books, and the story is going to be off in a ton of ways, but just enjoy the ride and appreciate that you get to see these things on the big screen.

The petition is stupid as hell.

I'm not mad they're not following the books because they already designated the great books as "legends" and non-canon. What I'm annoyed with is that they got rid of the books and put in this story INSTEAD of simply using the books as even a rough guide. They had a **** ton of books that they could have used for inspiration, but went with these stories instead...which, IMO, are lackluster.

As far as I know, GOT is based on the books (even though the show is ahead of the books); Star Wars is not. I don't think the two are comparable because of what Disney did with removing the books from canon.

[don't panac]

I saw this last night in Imax 3D, and I thought it was good. My one complaint was the jokes, which after a while got a little old and seemed out of place. I don't think it was necessarily a problem with the writing, but just the fact that Mark Hamill as an actor couldn't really pull it off. If it had been Harrison Ford with the same lines they wouldn't have seemed so out of place.

Also - I think it's funny as hell that people who read the books are mad that it doesn't line up exactly, going so far as to start a petition. Books made into movies and TV shows always have been and always will be nothing more than a reference to existing material. As a reader of any series you have to approach it as "It'll be cool to see the world some alive" rather than complain that the movie wasn't an accurate recreation of the books. I've been a reader of AGOT since the 90s, and that is how I approach the TV show. It's not going to be as good as the books, and the story is going to be off in a ton of ways, but just enjoy the ride and appreciate that you get to see these things on the big screen.

The petition is stupid as hell.

I'm not mad they're not following the books because they already designated the great books as "legends" and non-canon. What I'm annoyed with is that they got rid of the books and put in this story INSTEAD of simply using the books as even a rough guide. They had a **** ton of books that they could have used for inspiration, but went with these stories instead...which, IMO, are lackluster.

As far as I know, GOT is based on the books (even though the show is ahead of the books); Star Wars is not. I don't think the two are comparable because of what Disney did with removing the books from canon.

a major aspect of the SW movies has been the aura secrecy around the plot.
by ignoring large part of the books they just allow themselves and the director freedom to do whatever they think it is better and ensure the mystique of 'what will happen next' remains.

had they followed the book we would have people complained that they weren't original.

besides, the fraction of starwars fans who have read a significant part of the books is infinitesimal

[King of Canada]

I saw this last night in Imax 3D, and I thought it was good. My one complaint was the jokes, which after a while got a little old and seemed out of place. I don't think it was necessarily a problem with the writing, but just the fact that Mark Hamill as an actor couldn't really pull it off. If it had been Harrison Ford with the same lines they wouldn't have seemed so out of place.

Also - I think it's funny as hell that people who read the books are mad that it doesn't line up exactly, going so far as to start a petition. Books made into movies and TV shows always have been and always will be nothing more than a reference to existing material. As a reader of any series you have to approach it as "It'll be cool to see the world some alive" rather than complain that the movie wasn't an accurate recreation of the books. I've been a reader of AGOT since the 90s, and that is how I approach the TV show. It's not going to be as good as the books, and the story is going to be off in a ton of ways, but just enjoy the ride and appreciate that you get to see these things on the big screen.

The petition is stupid as hell.

I'm not mad they're not following the books because they already designated the great books as "legends" and non-canon. What I'm annoyed with is that they got rid of the books and put in this story INSTEAD of simply using the books as even a rough guide. They had a **** ton of books that they could have used for inspiration, but went with these stories instead...which, IMO, are lackluster.

As far as I know, GOT is based on the books (even though the show is ahead of the books); Star Wars is not. I don't think the two are comparable because of what Disney did with removing the books from canon.

My point is just that you have to treat the two as totally different things and just enjoy them as such. It's like that in Comic movies too. They very rarely follow the actual written story closely.

[shtolky]

I saw this last night in Imax 3D, and I thought it was good. My one complaint was the jokes, which after a while got a little old and seemed out of place. I don't think it was necessarily a problem with the writing, but just the fact that Mark Hamill as an actor couldn't really pull it off. If it had been Harrison Ford with the same lines they wouldn't have seemed so out of place.

Also - I think it's funny as hell that people who read the books are mad that it doesn't line up exactly, going so far as to start a petition. Books made into movies and TV shows always have been and always will be nothing more than a reference to existing material. As a reader of any series you have to approach it as "It'll be cool to see the world some alive" rather than complain that the movie wasn't an accurate recreation of the books. I've been a reader of AGOT since the 90s, and that is how I approach the TV show. It's not going to be as good as the books, and the story is going to be off in a ton of ways, but just enjoy the ride and appreciate that you get to see these things on the big screen.

The petition is stupid as hell.

I'm not mad they're not following the books because they already designated the great books as "legends" and non-canon. What I'm annoyed with is that they got rid of the books and put in this story INSTEAD of simply using the books as even a rough guide. They had a **** ton of books that they could have used for inspiration, but went with these stories instead...which, IMO, are lackluster.

As far as I know, GOT is based on the books (even though the show is ahead of the books); Star Wars is not. I don't think the two are comparable because of what Disney did with removing the books from canon.

To be fair, there are how many old EU books? Over 100, I literally don't know. I've only read some of the new books which are companion stories to this new trilogy. How would they know which stories to draw from, and, wouldn't there just be complaints that they couldn't come up with something new? From what I know of the EU, there are a lot of good stories but A LOT of really odd, stupid things like clones of Luke, etc. In fact, isn't the Thrawn trilogy about the Skywalker offspring? These new stories are effectively about a Skywalker offspring. I also don't think one should judge these movies as a trilogy until the final one comes out. I like that they streamlined the canon because when you have so many EU books, it's like, what's canon and what's not.

[NBA Fan 1234]

I saw this last night in Imax 3D, and I thought it was good. My one complaint was the jokes, which after a while got a little old and seemed out of place. I don't think it was necessarily a problem with the writing, but just the fact that Mark Hamill as an actor couldn't really pull it off. If it had been Harrison Ford with the same lines they wouldn't have seemed so out of place.

Also - I think it's funny as hell that people who read the books are mad that it doesn't line up exactly, going so far as to start a petition. Books made into movies and TV shows always have been and always will be nothing more than a reference to existing material. As a reader of any series you have to approach it as "It'll be cool to see the world some alive" rather than complain that the movie wasn't an accurate recreation of the books. I've been a reader of AGOT since the 90s, and that is how I approach the TV show. It's not going to be as good as the books, and the story is going to be off in a ton of ways, but just enjoy the ride and appreciate that you get to see these things on the big screen.

The petition is stupid as hell.

I'm not mad they're not following the books because they already designated the great books as "legends" and non-canon. What I'm annoyed with is that they got rid of the books and put in this story INSTEAD of simply using the books as even a rough guide. They had a **** ton of books that they could have used for inspiration, but went with these stories instead...which, IMO, are lackluster.

As far as I know, GOT is based on the books (even though the show is ahead of the books); Star Wars is not. I don't think the two are comparable because of what Disney did with removing the books from canon.

a major aspect of the SW movies has been the aura secrecy around the plot.
by ignoring large part of the books they just allow themselves and the director freedom to do whatever they think it is better and ensure the mystique of 'what will happen next' remains.

had they followed the book we would have people complained that they weren't original.

besides, the fraction of starwars fans who have read a significant part of the books is infinitesimal

The mystique of "what happens next" would have been the same anyway because, as you said, "the fraction of Star Wars fans who have read a significant part of the books is infinitesimally small." For the most part, I'm simply not a fan of these news movies and the direction they are taking the SW universe. The books are significantly better.

I don't think anyone would have complained that the stories weren't original. They are WAY more original than the ones Disney is putting out now. Episode 7 was a ripoff of A New Hope and 8 isn't anything special, either. I've read countless legends books that were way better than either of these two movies...and I'm pretty sure those who have also read them would say the same (for example, my dad and one of me best friends).

I saw this last night in Imax 3D, and I thought it was good. My one complaint was the jokes, which after a while got a little old and seemed out of place. I don't think it was necessarily a problem with the writing, but just the fact that Mark Hamill as an actor couldn't really pull it off. If it had been Harrison Ford with the same lines they wouldn't have seemed so out of place.

Also - I think it's funny as hell that people who read the books are mad that it doesn't line up exactly, going so far as to start a petition. Books made into movies and TV shows always have been and always will be nothing more than a reference to existing material. As a reader of any series you have to approach it as "It'll be cool to see the world some alive" rather than complain that the movie wasn't an accurate recreation of the books. I've been a reader of AGOT since the 90s, and that is how I approach the TV show. It's not going to be as good as the books, and the story is going to be off in a ton of ways, but just enjoy the ride and appreciate that you get to see these things on the big screen.

The petition is stupid as hell.

I'm not mad they're not following the books because they already designated the great books as "legends" and non-canon. What I'm annoyed with is that they got rid of the books and put in this story INSTEAD of simply using the books as even a rough guide. They had a **** ton of books that they could have used for inspiration, but went with these stories instead...which, IMO, are lackluster.

As far as I know, GOT is based on the books (even though the show is ahead of the books); Star Wars is not. I don't think the two are comparable because of what Disney did with removing the books from canon.

To be fair, there are how many old EU books? Over 100, I literally don't know. I've only read some of the new books which are companion stories to this new trilogy. How would they know which stories to draw from, and, wouldn't there just be complaints that they couldn't come up with something new? From what I know of the EU, there are a lot of good stories but A LOT of really odd, stupid things like clones of Luke, etc. In fact, isn't the Thrawn trilogy about the Skywalker offspring? These new stories are effectively about a Skywalker offspring. I also don't think one should judge these movies as a trilogy until the final one comes out. I like that they streamlined the canon because when you have so many EU books, it's like, what's canon and what's not.

Yep, there are well over one hundred books. They could have picked any storyline and gone from there - it didn't have to be cloned Luke or cloned Palpatine. Why not go with the Jacen storyline? Caedus? Yuuzhan Vong? Those would have been better than these, IMO. There are not "a lot of really odd, stupid things" in the "legends" storyline.

Just because this new one is about a Skywalker offspring does not mean they are remotely similar to what the books are. Jacen Solo and Kylo Ren share some similarities, but it begins and ends with Jedi turned Sith and being caught between the two for a time period. That's it.

They got rid of the old canon and made it "legends" because they wanted to go a new direction, not because nobody knew what was canon. There was only one canon before!

[DOT]

Going to see it tonight, but in my opinion, they should've just left the prequels and OT be their own thing, and gone either farther forward or farther back

Like, I would love to see something around the time of KOTOR (even though it isn't canon anymore, you could still do a story in the same time period, say 3-5 thousand years before ANH), or even go a few hundred or thousand years into the future to when the characters we know and love have passed into legends (not Star Wars, but something like the Alloy of Law from Brandon Sanderson, which takes place 100? I think years after the events of the Mistborn trilogy)

I'll give more opinions after I see it, but outside of this board, all the people I know really liked it, so I'm giving it a chance

[don't panac]

The petition is stupid as hell.

I'm not mad they're not following the books because they already designated the great books as "legends" and non-canon. What I'm annoyed with is that they got rid of the books and put in this story INSTEAD of simply using the books as even a rough guide. They had a **** ton of books that they could have used for inspiration, but went with these stories instead...which, IMO, are lackluster.

As far as I know, GOT is based on the books (even though the show is ahead of the books); Star Wars is not. I don't think the two are comparable because of what Disney did with removing the books from canon.

a major aspect of the SW movies has been the aura secrecy around the plot.
by ignoring large part of the books they just allow themselves and the director freedom to do whatever they think it is better and ensure the mystique of 'what will happen next' remains.

had they followed the book we would have people complained that they weren't original.

besides, the fraction of starwars fans who have read a significant part of the books is infinitesimal

The mystique of "what happens next" would have been the same anyway because, as you said, "the fraction of Star Wars fans who have read a significant part of the books is infinitesimally small." For the most part, I'm simply not a fan of these news movies and the direction they are taking the SW universe. The books are significantly better.

I don't think anyone would have complained that the stories weren't original. They are WAY more original than the ones Disney is putting out now. Episode 7 was a ripoff of A New Hope and 8 isn't anything special, either. I've read countless legends books that were way better than either of these two movies...and I'm pretty sure those who have also read them would say the same (for example, my dad and one of me best friends).

i don't doubt some of the books are very good and very original and better than the story line chosen for the movie. i only read a couple and i liked them. but the movies would not be original if they followed them.
which arcs back to your first point, with which i disagree entirely: to use those stories as the base of the movies would definitively destroy "the mistique" because no matter how few people read the books originally, the moment it is clear which book the movies are based on, the spoilers would be all over the internet. We would already know everything about Episode IX, for example, and on top of that if the story is not exactly the same as the book, some people would complaint, or they would complaint that one story line was preferred to another one "which was clearly one hundred times better".

they had to go with new material with the movies, which automatically means that a large chunk of the book material gets pushed out of canon, particular the stuff happening in the future, or they hands would be too tight.

[NBA Fan 1234]

a major aspect of the SW movies has been the aura secrecy around the plot.
by ignoring large part of the books they just allow themselves and the director freedom to do whatever they think it is better and ensure the mystique of 'what will happen next' remains.

had they followed the book we would have people complained that they weren't original.

besides, the fraction of starwars fans who have read a significant part of the books is infinitesimal

The mystique of "what happens next" would have been the same anyway because, as you said, "the fraction of Star Wars fans who have read a significant part of the books is infinitesimally small." For the most part, I'm simply not a fan of these news movies and the direction they are taking the SW universe. The books are significantly better.

I don't think anyone would have complained that the stories weren't original. They are WAY more original than the ones Disney is putting out now. Episode 7 was a ripoff of A New Hope and 8 isn't anything special, either. I've read countless legends books that were way better than either of these two movies...and I'm pretty sure those who have also read them would say the same (for example, my dad and one of me best friends).

i don't doubt some of the books are very good and very original and better than the story line chosen for the movie. i only read a couple and i liked them. but the movies would not be original if they followed them.
which arcs back to your first point, with which i disagree entirely: to use those stories as the base of the movies would definitively destroy "the mistique" because no matter how few people read the books originally, the moment it is clear which book the movies are based on, the spoilers would be all over the internet. We would already know everything about Episode IX, for example, and on top of that if the story is not exactly the same as the book, some people would complaint, or they would complaint that one story line was preferred to another one "which was clearly one hundred times better".

they had to go with new material with the movies, which automatically means that a large chunk of the book material gets pushed out of canon, particular the stuff happening in the future, or they hands would be too tight.

Spoilers were already all over the internet before this movie came out. People who wanted to see the spoilers saw them, and those who didn't did not (for the most part). I understand why they took the old canon out and made it legends (except for stuff relating to old republic and things happening after episode 6, but not the stuff before), I just don't agree with it. Never did, never will.



Follow up question - did you think Episode VII was original?

(Thank you for the response, btw.)

[NBA Fan 1234]

Going to see it tonight, but in my opinion, they should've just left the prequels and OT be their own thing, and gone either farther forward or farther back

Like, I would love to see something around the time of KOTOR (even though it isn't canon anymore, you could still do a story in the same time period, say 3-5 thousand years before ANH), or even go a few hundred or thousand years into the future to when the characters we know and love have passed into legends (not Star Wars, but something like the Alloy of Law from Brandon Sanderson, which takes place 100? I think years after the events of the Mistborn trilogy)

I'll give more opinions after I see it, but outside of this board, all the people I know really liked it, so I'm giving it a chance

I'm praying for a KOTOR era TV show on Disney's streaming service. That would be unbelievable and would restore my faith.

[DOT]

Going to see it tonight, but in my opinion, they should've just left the prequels and OT be their own thing, and gone either farther forward or farther back

Like, I would love to see something around the time of KOTOR (even though it isn't canon anymore, you could still do a story in the same time period, say 3-5 thousand years before ANH), or even go a few hundred or thousand years into the future to when the characters we know and love have passed into legends (not Star Wars, but something like the Alloy of Law from Brandon Sanderson, which takes place 100? I think years after the events of the Mistborn trilogy)

I'll give more opinions after I see it, but outside of this board, all the people I know really liked it, so I'm giving it a chance

I'm praying for a KOTOR era TV show on Disney's streaming service. That would be unbelievable and would restore my faith.

There's just so much sh*t they could do with the Star Wars liscense, but they keep it in the same 50 years and centered around the same family

I assume Rey's a Skywalker somehow, and I'll be pissed if it turns out she's Han and Leia's (I'll accept it if they had their minds wiped by Luke, cause there's precedence for that in KOTOR)

Honestly, I wanna see some of the legendary Sith Lords, like the dude who crushed a ship between 2 stars so he could escape (Naga Sadow? It's been a long time since I've read any of the books or comics)

But I've accepted that they won't try and go too far out with the stories now, as long as they're entertaining I'll watch them

Still waiting on Republic Commando 2 though, I used to play the sh*t outta that game when I was a kid

[don't panac]

The mystique of "what happens next" would have been the same anyway because, as you said, "the fraction of Star Wars fans who have read a significant part of the books is infinitesimally small." For the most part, I'm simply not a fan of these news movies and the direction they are taking the SW universe. The books are significantly better.

I don't think anyone would have complained that the stories weren't original. They are WAY more original than the ones Disney is putting out now. Episode 7 was a ripoff of A New Hope and 8 isn't anything special, either. I've read countless legends books that were way better than either of these two movies...and I'm pretty sure those who have also read them would say the same (for example, my dad and one of me best friends).

i don't doubt some of the books are very good and very original and better than the story line chosen for the movie. i only read a couple and i liked them. but the movies would not be original if they followed them.
which arcs back to your first point, with which i disagree entirely: to use those stories as the base of the movies would definitively destroy "the mistique" because no matter how few people read the books originally, the moment it is clear which book the movies are based on, the spoilers would be all over the internet. We would already know everything about Episode IX, for example, and on top of that if the story is not exactly the same as the book, some people would complaint, or they would complaint that one story line was preferred to another one "which was clearly one hundred times better".

they had to go with new material with the movies, which automatically means that a large chunk of the book material gets pushed out of canon, particular the stuff happening in the future, or they hands would be too tight.

Spoilers were already all over the internet before this movie came out. People who wanted to see the spoilers saw them, and those who didn't did not (for the most part). I understand why they took the old canon out and made it legends (except for stuff relating to old republic and things happening after episode 6, but not the stuff before), I just don't agree with it. Never did, never will.




Follow up question - did you think Episode VII was original?

(Thank you for the response, btw.)

no, episode VII was not original as far as the story goes, since it was basically episode IV. i still liked it, mostly because the 'nostalgia' factor was pulling at all the right strings for me, and i liked rey and kylo as a characters. i would have liked it a lot more, however, if they had been less literal in they 'homage'. and i would have liked it a lot less if I had known before what the story was going to be.

[Oscirus]

Also just realized

Spoiler:

That ending was so escape from LA it comes close to ripping it off

[Fury]

Stuff I didn't like so we can even things out:

Spoiler:

Definitely Super Leia. I also thought they lost a great opportunity to have her getting blown up after Kylo Ren decided NOT to.

The whole Poe trying to get **** done but he was actually wrong in the middle had the right idea but I didn't like the execution 100% because the payout had the wrong tone. Like I get what Holder did but when Poe got shot and she was in cahoots with Leia it was kind of weird and off.

They didn't expand on the these people sell weapons to both sides of the fight. Would have liked to see them explore that and make the rebels a bit more nuanced.

I'll get to more but gotta run.

[Oscirus]

Stuff I didn't like so we can even things out:

Spoiler:

Definitely Super Leia. I also thought they lost a great opportunity to have her getting blown up after Kylo Ren decided NOT to.

The whole Poe trying to get **** done but he was actually wrong in the middle had the right idea but I didn't like the execution 100% because the payout had the wrong tone. Like I get what Holder did but when Poe got shot and she was in cahoots with Leia it was kind of weird and off.

They didn't expand on the these people sell weapons to both sides of the fight. Would have liked to see them explore that and make the rebels a bit more nuanced.

I'll get to more but gotta run.

Spoiler:

I don't get why media thinks that the onus should be on Holdo to share her plans with a recently demoted commander as if it's her fault that he was acting like an **** and mutinying.

[Buttah304]

By FAR the worst part of the film for me was:

Spoiler:

The Finn story line. It was so utterly cringe worthy at times. Truth be told I thought that it would be in the first act of the film only and he would go on to do something else. But his arch was spread out throughout the film and it was uninspiring garbage. If you watch movies as much as I do you can literally tell when the director has no **** clue what to do with a character. I was a big fan of him during TFA but his entire story was such a bore. They tried to build up a romance with him and Rose and it was painful. If you want to see two characters build a rock solid story arch together look no further that Jyn Erso and Cassian in Rogue One. That was so beautifully done.

[IllmaticHandler]

Ok I finally saw it. This move is TRASH. Its prob the first SW movie that has NO Star Wars aura in it. IDGAF if they use Sabers. Have Luke in it. Mention Vader etc etc... Its not SW at all. Its poorly written and directed. This isnt a new direction, its just a trash direction.

Luke is also a Pussy....Dude is a emo chump. They literally destroyed Luke whole History with this BS story. Anakin did not die for this...


ROGUE ONE is MUCH MUCH BETTER THAN THIS.

[IllmaticHandler]

Spoiler:

This movie is Trash. That Leia scene? And non of these characters are really developed im sorry. You think because Rey can use the force she is developed? Kylo Ren is the worst SW villain of all time. dude is a spoiled brat. You call that a developing character? That Mofo is the same dude from last movie. Just because he killed Snook, is not some " oh he has grown up moment" Darth Maul never uttered a word...and was better . A s a Blackman, I had high hopes for Finn, but he is a waaaack character as well.I can go on and on about what is wrong with this movie. Lol @ creating Snook, then have him go out that fast. Defeated by a cat who is WEAK IN THE FORCE. This mofo Ren would still be a padawan back in the days. His grasp of the force is Youngling level, and he pulls a fast one on a so called master? SMH

[Marty McFly]

Spoiler:

I think if they had included a child of Luke it would have made some of the plot points work better.

If Ben's fall was stoked by jealously of this kid, it would have made more sense. Luke seeing the darkside in Ben, and being afraid for his child, would have made the lapse in judgement more believable, even for the great, Luke Skywalker to stray from the light.

[BLACKFEET 2010]

Spoiler:

This movie is Trash. That Leia scene? And non of these characters are really developed im sorry. You think because Rey can use the force she is developed? Kylo Ren is the worst SW villain of all time. dude is a spoiled brat. You call that a developing character? That Mofo is the same dude from last movie. Just because he killed Snook, is not some " oh he has grown up moment" Darth Maul never uttered a word...and was better . A s a Blackman, I had high hopes for Finn, but he is a waaaack character as well.I can go on and on about what is wrong with this movie. Lol @ creating Snook, then have him go out that fast. Defeated by a cat who is WEAK IN THE FORCE. This mofo Ren would still be a padawan back in the days. His grasp of the force is Youngling level, and he pulls a fast one on a so called master? SMH

Spoiler:

theres a line of thought that Snoke was projecting himself the entire time and that he isn’t actually dead. He went out like a sucker though as did Phasma who’s like a big deal in The First Order.

Agreed on Finn too but I think I’m Episode 9 his character will take on a more central role. He’s too good a character to be wasted; too many possibilities where he can be taken to just let him be scaredy-cat buffoon/reluctant hero

I love what they’re doing with Kylo. His uncle tried to kill him. So he ended up trying to kill him instead and destroying everything. He’s naturally jacked up in the head behind it. Like a kid being mollested by his coach/Uncle. He’s given Snoke “everything” and hates that he’s still so incomplete. Snoke only values his bloodline and his lure/connection with Rey. So he naturally hates all that “old ish” probably even (if not mostly) the specter of Vader and his legendary greatness that he’ll never be able to live up to. Hates his dad, his uncle and Snoke all the same. But not his mom. Not Rey. He’s hurting for real. Well Star Wars for real lol