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Markelle Fultz Discussion III: For Fultz and going forward (see 2017 draft thread for trade discussion)

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Re: Markelle Fultz Discussion III 

Post#621 » by LloydFree » Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:38 pm

Kobblehead wrote:Fultz being anointed as the consensus #1 was always contrived.

Delving deep into last year's class, there wasn't much separation among the 1-and-dones.

Same thing with this upcoming draft. There's a handful of really good prospects. If mock draft culture tries to proclaim one is above the rest, it's just them setting the narrative and shouldn't be taken with validity.

Well rest assured if mock draft culture proclaims one above the other, most will follow along with whatever is written. Once its written, it becomes truth.
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Markelle Fultz Discussion III 

Post#622 » by HartfordWhalers » Tue Dec 19, 2017 12:07 am

Sixers2125 wrote:
LloydFree wrote:
Sixers2125 wrote:Ok if he wasn't the consensus #1 who was?

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I don't know who the consensus #1 pick was. Nobody employed by an NBA front office (except for Danny Ainge) said who they would have picked #1. But we do know who Colangelo had #1.
Sometimes its best to use a little common sense.

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Please rethink this tone.
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Re: Markelle Fultz Discussion III 

Post#623 » by 76thBearCub » Tue Dec 19, 2017 12:51 am

Let's get a pool going to pay off one of the mods to lock this back up.
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Re: Markelle Fultz Discussion III 

Post#624 » by Sixers2125 » Tue Dec 19, 2017 1:36 am

Yeah lock it up. Too many negative "fans" over everything Fultz.

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Re: Markelle Fultz Discussion III 

Post#625 » by LordCovington33 » Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:14 am

Sixers2125 wrote:Yeah lock it up. Too many negative "fans" over everything Fultz.

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The problem right now is that we have several posters who take jabs at Fultz whenever they please. No new news, and yet they find a way to rubbish him.m Just because they carry a Sixers emblem, why is this not considered trolling? When sixers fans come out to defend their player, they are told to watch their tone. I might get a strike for questioning the balance, but whatever. Needs to be said.
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Re: Markelle Fultz Discussion III 

Post#626 » by HartfordWhalers » Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:39 am

LordCovington33 wrote:
Sixers2125 wrote:Yeah lock it up. Too many negative "fans" over everything Fultz.

Sent from my [device_name] using [url]RealGM mobile app[/url]


The problem right now is that we have several posters who take jabs at Fultz whenever they please. No new news, and yet they find a way to rubbish him.m Just because they carry a Sixers emblem, why is this not considered trolling? When sixers fans come out to defend their player, they are told to watch their tone. I might get a strike for questioning the balance, but whatever. Needs to be said.


If your tone is bad, I'm warning you. I don't care if you are saying Fultz is awesome, Fultz is crap, or Fultz is an extra from a made for tv movie. You call someone ignorant, you are getting a warning. It is an easy rule, and a fair one.
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Re: Markelle Fultz Discussion III 

Post#627 » by Negrodamus » Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:44 am

I'm curious, which are the posts that are taking jabs at Fultz since this thread opened back up?
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Re: Markelle Fultz Discussion III 

Post#628 » by eagereyez » Tue Dec 19, 2017 3:00 am

Is he back yet?
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Re: Markelle Fultz Discussion III 

Post#629 » by gdog2004 » Tue Dec 19, 2017 3:40 pm

Man every time I see a you tube clip breaking down Fultz play in college I think, wow he would be PERFECT on the Sixers. Can't wait to see this guy play. I hope he can regain his college form.
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Re: Markelle Fultz Discussion III 

Post#630 » by CoreyGallagher » Tue Dec 19, 2017 3:42 pm

Confident that he will. Embiid missed two years, Simmons missed a year, I don't think what a player does in a few months can affect them that much.
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Re: Markelle Fultz Discussion III 

Post#631 » by MR28 » Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:48 pm

Negrodamus wrote:I'm curious, which are the posts that are taking jabs at Fultz since this thread opened back up?


I guess you skipped over every post where someone says they think Fultz was the best prospect from last years draft, then some **** responds with a remark about how they must be a dumbass who can only look at mock draft sites, as if he's a professional scout and no one else can watch the games and have an opinion.
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Re: Markelle Fultz Discussion III 

Post#632 » by Negrodamus » Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:56 pm

MR28 wrote:
Negrodamus wrote:I'm curious, which are the posts that are taking jabs at Fultz since this thread opened back up?


I guess you skipped over every post where someone says they think Fultz was the best prospect from last years draft, then some **** responds with a remark about how they must be a dumbass who can only look at mock draft sites, as if he's a professional scout and no one else can watch the games and have an opinion.


I'm not seeing the post where someone claims other posters are "dumbasses" that only look at mock drafts. That would be a combative response which I doubt any of the mods would tolerate.

If you disagree with the poster I think you disagree with, then argue your point.

Either way, saying Fultz isn't the best prospect from last years draft isn't taking a jab at Fultz.
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Re: Markelle Fultz Discussion III 

Post#633 » by LongLiveHinkie » Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:01 pm

It's very simple, Fultz is a medium in which people can promote an anti-Colangelo agenda. Notice that everyone who dislikes Fultz has it in common that they also hate Colangelo? These elaborate conspiracy theories that Colangelo is orchestrating this whole thing to save face is just so beyond ridiculous and clearly an attack on Bryan who has really done exactly what the majority of fans have wanted since he has taken over.

Honestly, as an avid Hinkie supporter, this whole Fultz situation has put myself in a unique perspective. Sometimes it's refreshing to see and "get" both sides of the fence on an issue and for the first time I can really relate to and understand where Hinkie haters are coming from. As annoying as they are, I have to be honest, the blind Hinkie supporters are worse. They are absolutely insufferable. To hold anyone in such a high esteem is just ludicrous. Hinkie did some great things, but he also made some bad mistakes and Hinkie is treated like a god who won this city 20 championships. It's just insane. So anyone who comes after him will be looked down upon and not given a chance because they aren't their god Hinkie. That had embittered a lot of people against Hinkie and Hinkie supporters and I totally see where they're coming from now. It's essentially a sports version of a mob mentality, and Colangelo who has been really good so far is being taken out to pasture for it, and Fultz being trashed is a byproduct of the ENTIRE thing, which makes him collateral damage basically.
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Re: Markelle Fultz Discussion III 

Post#634 » by Kobblehead » Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:09 pm

I liked Hinkie. I like Colangelo. I like Fultz as a prospect. I hated the decision to trade up to #1.
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Re: Markelle Fultz Discussion III 

Post#635 » by HotelVitale » Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:27 pm

LongLiveHinkie wrote:It's very simple, Fultz is a medium in which people can promote an anti-Colangelo agenda. Notice that everyone who dislikes Fultz has it in common that they also hate Colangelo? These elaborate conspiracy theories that Colangelo is orchestrating this whole thing to save face is just so beyond ridiculous and clearly an attack on Bryan who has really done exactly what the majority of fans have wanted since he has taken over.

I'm supposed to be done with this thread until Fultz actually plays a game, but this was too much nonsense to ignore. I've criticized Colangelo's trade here because it was based on an inflated valuation of Fultz that I and many others diagnosed well before any of us thought the Sixers had a chance at him. And I posted many lengthy explanations of why I felt Fultz was a solid but not elite prospect, and every single time people who disagree don't respond directly to them and instead turn this into a loyalty contest--you either love Fultz or else you have some hidden motive or want to be a hater or contrarian or whatever else.

As for Colangelo, he's a human being whom I have no relationship and who makes decisions about the basketball team I follow, sometimes I like them and sometimes don't. I don't shut off my eyes and brain so that I can heap scorn on some guy I don't know and praise some other guy I don't know. I honestly don't think that even the worst realgm posters do that--at most, they tend to give too much or too little rope for some GM based on their track record (e.g. Ainge or Presti makes a questionable move and they assume it must be great rather than just evaluating it on their own).

In this case, the schematic is this: (Colangelo makes bad move)+(it concerns Markelle Fultz)--> (criticisms of Colangelo come in the Fultz thread). Not more complicated.
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Re: Markelle Fultz Discussion III 

Post#636 » by LongLiveHinkie » Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:32 pm

HotelVitale wrote:
LongLiveHinkie wrote:It's very simple, Fultz is a medium in which people can promote an anti-Colangelo agenda. Notice that everyone who dislikes Fultz has it in common that they also hate Colangelo? These elaborate conspiracy theories that Colangelo is orchestrating this whole thing to save face is just so beyond ridiculous and clearly an attack on Bryan who has really done exactly what the majority of fans have wanted since he has taken over.

I'm supposed to be done with this thread until Fultz actually plays a game, but this was too much nonsense to ignore. I've criticized Colangelo's trade here because it was based on an inflated valuation of Fultz that I and many others diagnosed well before any of us thought the Sixers had a chance at him. And I posted many lengthy explanations of why I felt Fultz was a solid but not elite prospect, and every single time people who disagree don't respond directly to them and instead turn this into a loyalty contest--you either love Fultz or else you have some hidden motive or want to be a hater or contrarian or whatever else.

As for Colangelo, he's a human being whom I have no relationship and who makes decisions about the basketball team I follow, sometimes I like them and sometimes don't. I don't shut off my eyes and brain so that I can heap scorn on some guy I don't know and praise some other guy I don't know. I honestly don't think that even the worst realgm posters do that--at most, they tend to give too much or too little rope for some GM based on their track record (e.g. Ainge or Presti makes a questionable move and they assume it must be great rather than just evaluating it on their own).

In this case, the schematic is this: (Colangelo makes bad move)+(it concerns Markelle Fultz)--> (criticisms of Colangelo come in the Fultz thread). Not more complicated.


The trade has nothing to do with this. I'm speaking specifically about people going after Markelle Fultz's character and making it personal. When someone takes it to that level, it's clearly just a means to promote their agenda against Colangelo. No one has any logical reason to dislike Fultz and no one has enough concrete information to determine anything about Fultz. So jumping to these extreme assumptions about him is just a way to indirectly attack Colangelo.
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Re: Markelle Fultz Discussion III 

Post#637 » by LloydFree » Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:45 pm

I was never a Hinkie worshipper. I agreed with his plan and liked most of his trades. I thought he was below average at the draft. A smart GM overall.
I was completely neutral towards Colangelo... until he traded up for Fultz. Once he did that, I have to question his judgement moving forward. It was a dumb and unnecessary move. A reckless waste of resources for a player whose ceiling, I believe, doesn't merit that kind of risk.
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Re: Markelle Fultz Discussion III 

Post#638 » by gdog2004 » Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:52 pm

LloydFree wrote:I was never a Hinkie worshipper. I agreed with his plan and liked most of his trades. I thought he was below average at the draft. A smart GM overall.
I was completely neutral towards Colangelo... until he traded up for Fultz. Once he did that, I have to question his judgement moving forward. It was a dumb and unnecessary move. A reckless waste of resources for a player whose ceiling doesn't merit that kind of risk.


If he is the guy he was in college, I would say his ceiling is pretty damn high. I do agree (I think) with you in the sense that if Fultz never pans out, BC could lose his job over that. That IS/WAS his defining move. I think he will be very good for this team. Once he gets back and is healthy...I sure as hell hope at the very least :)
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Re: Markelle Fultz Discussion III 

Post#639 » by BigSleep333 » Tue Dec 19, 2017 11:06 pm

LongLiveHinkie wrote:It's very simple, Fultz is a medium in which people can promote an anti-Colangelo agenda. Notice that everyone who dislikes Fultz has it in common that they also hate Colangelo? These elaborate conspiracy theories that Colangelo is orchestrating this whole thing to save face is just so beyond ridiculous and clearly an attack on Bryan who has really done exactly what the majority of fans have wanted since he has taken over.

Honestly, as an avid Hinkie supporter, this whole Fultz situation has put myself in a unique perspective. Sometimes it's refreshing to see and "get" both sides of the fence on an issue and for the first time I can really relate to and understand where Hinkie haters are coming from. As annoying as they are, I have to be honest, the blind Hinkie supporters are worse. They are absolutely insufferable. To hold anyone in such a high esteem is just ludicrous. Hinkie did some great things, but he also made some bad mistakes and Hinkie is treated like a god who won this city 20 championships. It's just insane. So anyone who comes after him will be looked down upon and not given a chance because they aren't their god Hinkie. That had embittered a lot of people against Hinkie and Hinkie supporters and I totally see where they're coming from now. It's essentially a sports version of a mob mentality, and Colangelo who has been really good so far is being taken out to pasture for it, and Fultz being trashed is a byproduct of the ENTIRE thing, which makes him collateral damage basically.


hinkie got us in this situation and never got the chance to make the next steps. the mcw-trade was genius and there is more reason to believe he would have pulled the trigger on noel and/or jah way earlier than BC, who got basically nothing for them.

im not a blind colangelo-hater because i just hate him. when he talks, he says nothing and/or lies. u already forgot how he handled the embiid-injury last season? embiid teared his meniscus and because of a national tv game, embiid played that game and probably have made it worse.

regarding fultz, nobody here is "right" either liking or hating that trade, because fultz only played 4 games and looked horrible because of his injury or no injury related shot. we will see if he comes back strong, but this crazy amount of time he gets for "muscle imbalance" is weird and very very rare, ****, i still dont even know a comparable case...

i always try to be as objective as i can and i have absolute no problems to give BC props for good things. he got rid off jah way too late, but at this point he had no value at all and to land a very good benchplayer in booker for a 2nd round pick was a great move.

i dont know what other moves from him were that great tbh. the bayless contract was horrible, which puts us now in the situation, we may have to add an asset to get rid off him to get more flexibility back. bayless is trash and he gave him 9m/y for 3 years...

you should think about another nick-change
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Re: Markelle Fultz Discussion III 

Post#640 » by LongLiveHinkie » Tue Dec 19, 2017 11:09 pm

I think it's funny that people criticize Colangelo more for trading Okafor late than those same people do rip Hinkie for drafting Okafor in the first place and not trading him to Boston in 2015 for the Nets pick.

Colangelo inherited a terrible situation. Did he make the best of it? No, but it was largely not his fault.

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