OT: Investing - Stocks/Mutual Funds/Bonds/Crypto

[neiLz]

The current decision I am debating is whether I should go with traditional 401k vs a Roth 401k. My company offers both and since I recently switched jobs, I'll be able to start contributing to one. I can mix them percentage wise, like 5% each if I choose to.

I feel like it would be wise to do a Roth 401k as I'm in my 20's, not married and have no kids. If I can afford the taxes upfront, wouldn't it make more sense to do the Roth 401k as my income is likely to rise as I get older?

This is a decision I have as well I have, 8 years into my company been doing the 5 percent with company match for 8 years should I switch to a Roth?

[WiscSports1]

The current decision I am debating is whether I should go with traditional 401k vs a Roth 401k. My company offers both and since I recently switched jobs, I'll be able to start contributing to one. I can mix them percentage wise, like 5% each if I choose to.

I feel like it would be wise to do a Roth 401k as I'm in my 20's, not married and have no kids. If I can afford the taxes upfront, wouldn't it make more sense to do the Roth 401k as my income is likely to rise as I get older?

Do you expect your retirement income, i.e. drawdown on accounts, to be higher than your current income?

I would suspect that my retirement income would be less than my current income, but it's hard to know for sure obviously.

Realistically, I would suspect being married at retirement and having a higher income than now. I don't know if one way is better long term or if it's better to have some taxable income later in life.

[zmanishere11]

I manage a bunch of money for a bunch of people for a living.

There seems to be some confusion as to what people are trying to time, so let's define it better:

Volatility - that's the month to month stuff, you can't time it
Corrections - 5-10% drop, happens for no reason, you shouldn't try to time this
Recessions - real issues here, and there are always signs, these are the signs you should be looking for.

If you'd prefer to have someone else invest money for you, a great question to ask the person you're trusting is what are the signs of a recession and how would you react if you saw those signs. If they can't answer that, you shouldn't be paying them.

Some free advice - no recession on the horizon. Could change a year from now.

Barring a geopolitical event, stocks rock again in 2018.

Here's something that won't make sense but should - if bond funds AREN"T down 5% this time next year, we're looking at an inverted yield curve which is the leading indicator of the last 7 recessions. So I hope you all lose $ on your bonds in 2018.

On Cryptos - hesitant to make a call one way or another. Could be like buying into early stages of the internet - could be like buying something that you can't ever spend. Currently violates the simplest investment principal which is buy low and sell high.

[midranger]

I would avoid Bitmain machines - we were looking at buying their Antminer D3 or something for Dash, it was 1 BTC (when it was valued at ~$2,000, wouldn't ship until December. Now 1 BTC is worth $16.5k.

You just described why bitcoin is useless as a currency, which is it's only intended use and value.

Curious as to how. They had an extremely high demand for their products and slow production times, thus leading to a large gap as to when it would be delivered, but wanted payment at time of purchase. Super smart on their part. It'd be like buying something with gold when it was valued at X and then not getting your product for 4 months and gold being worth 10 times that.

It's smart of the company when it goes up 8 times. Really dumb for you though. It can bankrupt a business if it deceases by 8x. A currency that volatile just can't be used. You paid 16,500 dollars for a 2,000 dollar computer that you've yet to receive. How do you feel about that interaction? Gold can do the same thing, but gold isn't being passed off as a legitimate currency, and it holds some intrinsic value as a metal that can be shaped, as opposed to say a digital series of 0s and 1s.

Imagine agreeing on a house purchase for 10 bitcoin today, thinking it's value is $160,500, but by the time you close for 10 bitcoin 45 days from now and they are worth 80,000.

A legitimate currency needs to have some stability of value to be used routinely in transactions.

[NomNomNomParker]

Mgti and PRELF

Anyone get in on either, made profits all week... DPW could explode tomorrow. Amazing conference call today. They actually bought a hydroelectric dam to increase gains for their mining operations. Really.

[HaroldinGMinor]

Stop using all the energy, crypto miners.

[skones]

Recent Bitcoin Article

I'm an old guy so I'll stick with more traditional investments.

I mean, you're a little late if you're trying to become a bitcoin millionaire at this point. It's already happened.

Patently false. I have many many a friend in the industry. I’ve been investing and Alt-Coining since 2014.

To sum it up best and challenge your assertion, one of my most respected peers just shared with me:

“It’s like the past several years, the party was being planned. Now the party is here. BUT, this is a party starting at 7pm and going til sunrise. It’s now 7pm.”

Certainly not "patently false" at this point. If you think it's going to keep skyrocketing, you're certainly entitled to that view of things, but to call it patently false? Well, it's a bit early for that.

[MickeyDavis]

Mgti and PRELF

Anyone get in on either, made profits all week... DPW could explode tomorrow. Amazing conference call today. They actually bought a hydroelectric dam to increase gains for their mining operations. Really.

Nice call on those 2, they had some nice gains the past few days. DPW rose at the end today, it will be interesting to see what tomorrow brings.

[Lippo]

Anyone else get in on the AION TRS contract (alt coin)
put in 4 ether in the beginning or Nov, at the time 350 each or so under 1500
got back 1600 coins already and 4800 coming still at 4.25 each atm
looks like 20k+ profit in 45 days on less than 2k investment,
if the coin hits and goes to $20-30 like many expect in 2018, 6 figures....

who said we missed the party.

TO THE MOON!!!!!!!!!!!

[newerabucks]

Good topic. I'm 50 and have been in the stock market to varying degrees for most of my life. Let me impart some lessons I've learned along the way so you can avoid making some of the same mistakes I've made and mimic the things I've done right. Here goes:

1) DON'T get caught up in euphoria -like I did circa late 90s w/ the .com boom. When all of tech was going hyperbolic I was pressing my bets when I should have been taking money off the table (along w/a lot other folks). I don't need to tell you that ended very badly. Buffett can teach you a lot about investing and now I keep this quote next to my computer - "“Be Fearful When Others Are Greedy and Greedy When Others Are Fearful”. I know today in a mania I would be inclined to sell my stocks, not buy. And on the other hand, I would tend to buy stocks hand over fist in an outright crash, not sell.

Today, that euphoria might be cryptocurrency. I say might because I don't know if it is - but when the returns are this insane you have to at least be open to the idea that it's a bubble that could burst. I have some money in crypto BUT IT'S MONEY I'M PREPARED TO LOSE. If you're going "all in" at the very least be cognizant of the idea that there are no guarantees no matter how strong your conviction is and how much you believe in the fundamentals of the technology.

2) DON'T put too much capital into any one name especially if it's more speculative - my single worst investing mistake was putting WAY too much capital in a penny stock. First few months I felt like a genius as it made a sweet move up...before crashing.

3) Along the same lines - DON'T rationalize putting too much capital into any one name/thing by "averaging down" (i.e. you continue buying it on the way down to get a lower cost basis). Set a limit as to how much you'll put into any one investment and don't go over that limit. I've found that a lot of the time if a stock is steadily going down there's a good reason and if you don't set a limit for yourself you're going to find yourself w/ way too much in a single (and too often) lousy investment.

4) Compound interest will make you rich, not trading. Look, I'm not against trading. In fact, I enjoy it - probably too much. I like to my augment my core portfolio by making trades here and there - today, for me, that mostly involves selling out of the money puts, buying stock and selling covered calls against the stock, and when I REALLY full bullish about a name buying some naked calls. But the trades are designed to hit singles, generate a little excitement (and income) and keep me interested in following the market day to day.

But the REAL wealth creation lies in making an investment in stock or an index fund or whatever and letting it sit and compound year over year. It's boring. It's not sexy. But it truly is the way to get rich. Which most of you already know but maybe not a lot of you actually put to the test. That's what Buffett will tell you, that's what Ron Baron and plenty of others will tell you. You've heard it a thousand times - "If I put 10,000 into X 25 years ago it would be worth Y today". Try and pick few things you think might be great long term bets (I say a few because you probably won't be right about all of them) and then just be resolved to let them sit and build for 15 years if not longer.

I know if I knew the things at 25-30 I know at 50 I'd be a lot wealthier so I hope this helps some of you.

[jschligs]

You just described why bitcoin is useless as a currency, which is it's only intended use and value.

Curious as to how. They had an extremely high demand for their products and slow production times, thus leading to a large gap as to when it would be delivered, but wanted payment at time of purchase. Super smart on their part. It'd be like buying something with gold when it was valued at X and then not getting your product for 4 months and gold being worth 10 times that.

It's smart of the company when it goes up 8 times. Really dumb for you though. It can bankrupt a business if it deceases by 8x. A currency that volatile just can't be used. You paid 16,500 dollars for a 2,000 dollar computer that you've yet to receive. How do you feel about that interaction? Gold can do the same thing, but gold isn't being passed off as a legitimate currency, and it holds some intrinsic value as a metal that can be shaped, as opposed to say a digital series of 0s and 1s.

Imagine agreeing on a house purchase for 10 bitcoin today, thinking it's value is $160,500, but by the time you close for 10 bitcoin 45 days from now and they are worth 80,000.

A legitimate currency needs to have some stability of value to be used routinely in transactions.

I never did the transaction. I said stay away from ones like those. That's exactly why I didn't do it. I don't think you fully understand the technology and science behind bitcoin. It usually doesn't have a volatile period like this. Up until the recent boom it would rarely fluctuate 10% in a day.

[paulpressey25]

4) Compound interest will make you rich, not trading. Look, I'm not against trading. In fact, I enjoy it - probably too much. I like to my augment my core portfolio by making trades here and there - today, for me, that mostly involves selling out of the money puts, buying stock and selling covered calls against the stock, and when I REALLY full bullish about a name buying some naked calls. But the trades are designed to hit singles, generate a little excitement (and income) and keep me interested in following the market day to day.

Over the long run the Vanguard 500 index fund is where a large chunk of your savings should go to. The question is what is the "long-run". Many definitions for different people. I too have deviated from that 500 Index fund strategy and for a time it feels good but then 5-10 years later you look back and wonder what you were thinking.

The part about the crypto currencies is that they are missing two key elements of investment safety.

a) There is no inherent value in it, whereas land, metals, commodities, etc actually do have intrinsic value to them.

b) There is no stable government or armed forces pledge to uphold the value of them as there is with the US dollar and/or equity interests in US corporations.

[sidney lanier]

Speaking of blockchain investing, this CNBC item this morning sounded at first to me like something from The Onion. I guess that shows my age.

In a move that caused double takes on Wall Street trading floors and prompted comments on Twitter about how this must be the top of bitcoin mania, a little known micro-cap stock called Long Island Iced Tea Corp said Thursday it's now "Long Blockchain Corp," and its stock leaped more than 200 percent at the open of trading.

The Farmingdale, New York-based beverage maker said in a release it is "shifting its primary corporate focus towards the exploration of and investment in opportunities that leverage the benefits of blockchain technology."

The company, however, is still going to make iced tea and other juice beverages, it said.

[vlietinho]

After receiving an inheritance I'm contemplating what to do with it. Leaving it on my bankaccount will make money go away cause almost no interest and 1,3% tax a year (I'm Dutch).

I've been advised to go in stocks, but I dont know anything about it, and I neither care nor have the time to study that. So someone said to me, invest in funds that are handled by a bank or something like that, but I did that with my mortgage and that didnt go very well.

Bitcoins I think you're to late and there might be a bubble burst soon as I read some articles about that.

My father in law invests in property, but hearing him talking about getting the rent from some of his properties, I dont like that either.

Maybe I should just buy gold and hide it in my basement, lol.

I really dont know, any tips or other options?

[newerabucks]

Over the long run the Vanguard 500 index fund is where a large chunk of your savings should go to. The question is what is the "long-run". Many definitions for different people. I too have deviated from that 500 Index fund strategy and for a time it feels good but then 5-10 years later you look back and wonder what you were thinking.

The part about the crypto currencies is that they are missing two key elements of investment safety.

a) There is no inherent value in it, whereas land, metals, commodities, etc actually do have intrinsic value to them.

b) There is no stable government or armed forces pledge to uphold the value of them as there is with the US dollar and/or equity interests in US corporations.

Being honest, I would sound like a babbling idiot if I even tried to describe the technology. I hadn't put a dime into crypto up until a few months ago. My millennial (former) assistant has been trading it the past few years - and has made a small fortune. I used to give him sh__ about it calling it a bubble, telling him it will go the way of the .com bubble etc. Then one day he got tired of hearing me take shots and sent me a "scoreboard" email w/ some his recent returns (1200% in 10 days, 60% in a month etc. etc.). I stopped giving him sh__ and started giving him some dough to invest. I put about 50% of what I intended to put to work in - but it's gone completely hyperbolic so that might be it in terms of money I put in. I'm up 225% on these holdings in a little over 3 months. It's just insanity. I look at it as my lottery ticket. It's fun to follow but I won't trade it. Totally prepared to lose what I've put in or maybe I'll get lucky and it will lead to earlier retirement

[BucksFanSD]

It is really only two things for me.

1) housing - buy where there is a large demand and finite supply. Buy the land more so the house and work alongside cheap labor over time to upgrade the home.

2) As others have mentioned, compounding 401k plans with employer matching, if able. Contribute as much as you can. I do part traditional and the other part Roth (for tax bracket reasons for when I retire).

[sidney lanier]

After receiving an inheritance I'm contemplating what to do with it. Leaving it on my bankaccount will make money go away cause almost no interest and 1,3% tax a year (I'm Dutch).

I've been advised to go in stocks, but I dont know anything about it, and I neither care nor have the time to study that. So someone said to me, invest in funds that are handled by a bank or something like that, but I did that with my mortgage and that didnt go very well.

Bitcoins I think you're to late and there might be a bubble burst soon as I read some articles about that.

My father in law invests in property, but hearing him talking about getting the rent from some of his properties, I dont like that either.

Maybe I should just buy gold and hide it in my basement, lol.

I really dont know, any tips or other options?

I think Paul's advice above to use an index fund based on U.S. equities, which rises or falls with the fate of many stocks rolled together, is a pretty good choice. It's low maintenance and relatively low risk. If it's money you don't need to live on and aren't afraid to ride the roller-coaster a little bit, I think that's a good choice.

I assume those Gadzuric jerseys haven't appreciated enough over the years to have become a viable investment vehicle.

[midranger]

A reasonable and easy portfolio:

60% whole stock market index fund (whichever you like)
20% whole bond market index fund
20% international stock index fund

Add a REIT if you want more diversity, but the above is easy to rebalance and if you hold for 2 decades "should" yield you about 6-7% per year on average

[HaroldinGMinor]

Speaking of blockchain investing, this CNBC item this morning sounded at first to me like something from The Onion. I guess that shows my age.

In a move that caused double takes on Wall Street trading floors and prompted comments on Twitter about how this must be the top of bitcoin mania, a little known micro-cap stock called Long Island Iced Tea Corp said Thursday it's now "Long Blockchain Corp," and its stock leaped more than 200 percent at the open of trading.

The Farmingdale, New York-based beverage maker said in a release it is "shifting its primary corporate focus towards the exploration of and investment in opportunities that leverage the benefits of blockchain technology."

The company, however, is still going to make iced tea and other juice beverages, it said.

One of the big early investors in blockchain technology is Overstock.com. Rumors they might ditch the online shopping site and just do blockchain.

[vlietinho]

After receiving an inheritance I'm contemplating what to do with it. Leaving it on my bankaccount will make money go away cause almost no interest and 1,3% tax a year (I'm Dutch).

I've been advised to go in stocks, but I dont know anything about it, and I neither care nor have the time to study that. So someone said to me, invest in funds that are handled by a bank or something like that, but I did that with my mortgage and that didnt go very well.

Bitcoins I think you're to late and there might be a bubble burst soon as I read some articles about that.

My father in law invests in property, but hearing him talking about getting the rent from some of his properties, I dont like that either.

Maybe I should just buy gold and hide it in my basement, lol.

I really dont know, any tips or other options?

I think Paul's advice above to use an index fund based on U.S. equities, which rises or falls with the fate of many stocks rolled together, is a pretty good choice. It's low maintenance and relatively low risk. If it's money you don't need to live on and aren't afraid to ride the roller-coaster a little bit, I think that's a good choice.

I assume those Gadzuric jerseys haven't appreciated enough over the years to have become a viable investment vehicle.

At least I knew enough to not invest in Danny G. jerseys. lol
thx for the reply, I'm gonna look in to that
Midrangers post with the percentage split seems a smart move, at least it's always a good idea to spread your chances a little I guess