Are the Raptors currently the 2nd best team in the East?

KnightofHyrule · Post #281 » by **KnightofHyrule** » Thu Dec 21, 2017 4:01 pm

bmurph128 wrote:The Raptors and Rockets are very similar teams. Both consistently perform in the regular season and don't do much in the playoffs.

The Raptors catch so much flak for the Cavs beating them down - but for some reason people give the Rockets a pass. Probably because Harden is a super star while the Raptors just have all stars.

If LeBron was out for game 4 of the series last year, and the Cavs destroyed the Raptors in Toronto, there would still be threads laughing at the Raptors.

Well, tbh, there are quite a lot of posts about the Rockets failure. But the Rockets also had that come back series against the Clippers a few years ago. They also play in the West. Even though Rockets missed the playoffs entirely two years ago, they have shown playoff competence. Meanwhile, Raptors still haven't beaten a team in less than 6 games. Or had a series where they clearly looked head and shoulders above the other team. The Raptors playoff criticism has become outlandish, but its still worse than the Rockets.

Spoiler:

Downtown · Post #282 » by **Downtown** » Thu Dec 21, 2017 4:05 pm

I don't know if I'd call them the second best team but I do know that they're a solid team all around with really good depth. The bench struggled last night against Charlotte but before this the Raptors bench has been really good. I love Siakim and his energetic play, Poetl is playing a solid role, and both Powell and Van Fleet are contributors.

I'm quite impressed with Anunoby as well. While he does make the odd rookie mistake he looks like a veteran with how he plays the floor. He knows his role, accepts it, and just tries to bring defence and make the simple, but right play for the other four on the starting unit. A great glue type of player at his young age with plenty of room to grow and become even more important as the years go by. I know it's all hindsight but as a Blazers fan I look back at the draft and think what Portland could have had by keeping the #20 pick and using it on Anunoby, the #26 pick on Jordan Bell, and trading McCollum plus the #15 pick for Jimmy Butler. That's some solid defence there.

But it all comes down to how Lowry and Derozen are. I think if one of them goes down I'm not sure the rest can pick up the slack.

I read so much with Raptors fans wanting trades such as JV but I think they should stick with the same group and get even more in tune with each other for the second half of the season rather than making changes mid stream. I think they have what it takes to be even chance with Cleveland and Boston for Eastern Champion.

dukes_wild · Post #283 » by **dukes_wild** » Thu Dec 21, 2017 4:13 pm

Lol our best player clearly doesn't even try that hard on most nights and we win by 10-15+ nearly every game. Yet Kyrie has to go god mode for the Celtics just to sneak by mediocre teams by single digit margins.

Moose23 · Post #284 » by **Moose23** » Thu Dec 21, 2017 4:16 pm

Wasp wrote:
Moose23 wrote:
The Flying Gent wrote:
It's basketball. It's grown men running around putting a ball through a hoop. None of this matters at all. But people do like to watch, analyse and talk about it, so i suggest you let them.

so when till a thread is started about who is the 5th best team in the east?

or 7th?

You mean like every "Rank the East" or "East Playoff Prediction" thread? Or in your mind, should there be zero posts on the GB until after the Finals, as long as they only contain content about the winning team?

I get the whole "play to win" thing, but the 'Chips or nothing crowd is really getting annoying.

Sent from my ASUS_Z01HD using RealGM mobile app

more annoying that the "we might be second place in the east because of other teams injuries let celebrate our arrival #provem" crowd?

Tai · Post #285 » by **Tai** » Thu Dec 21, 2017 4:27 pm

CoachD wrote:
CelticsLV wrote:Raps are trending upwards while Celtics are gradually regressing. Not so far fetched to say that Raps are better as of now. I was really surprised with Celtics start of the season and was more pessimistic after Hayward went down. After the win streak Boston hasn't been good at all. Raps and Cavs have been playing much better and most stats suggest it too. W/L, NetRtg etc. Celtics offense has been above average but defense has regressed big time.

Their offense went from below average to average or slightly above. Its still not a good offense by ANY stretch

How is top 10 in offensive efficiency not a good offense by "any" stretch"?

RaptorsLife · Post #286 » by **RaptorsLife** » Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:00 pm

Master Ze wrote:
RaptorsLife wrote:
Asif16 wrote:Who the hell bumped this. I prefer to just chug along low key

tbh I shouldn't have bump this. we can't prove anything until April and May which is fair assessment after last few years in playoffs Let's keep enjoying awesome basketball and get the first seed

I think the remaining RS games against Cleveland/Boston will be a good indicator of how good this team is.

I don't think beating Boston is indicator of anything but mediocrity.

beating Cavs, warriors and rockets, spurs are the goals

Mister Ze · Post #287 » by **Mister Ze** » Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:02 pm

RaptorsLife wrote:
Master Ze wrote:
RaptorsLife wrote:tbh I shouldn't have bump this. we can't prove anything until April and May which is fair assessment after last few years in playoffs Let's keep enjoying awesome basketball and get the first seed

I think the remaining RS games against Cleveland/Boston will be a good indicator of how good this team is.

I don't think beating Boston is indicator of anything but mediocrity.

beating Cavs, warriors and rockets, spurs are the goals

They beat us without Irving, we have no bragging rights against them until we beat them at 100%

RaptorsLife · Post #288 » by **RaptorsLife** » Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:06 pm

Master Ze wrote:
RaptorsLife wrote:
Master Ze wrote:I think the remaining RS games against Cleveland/Boston will be a good indicator of how good this team is.

I don't think beating Boston is indicator of anything but mediocrity.

beating Cavs, warriors and rockets, spurs are the goals

They beat us without Irving, we have no bragging rights against them until we beat them at 100%

we were playing bad that strench. after that game after that game were 14-3 in last 17 games. Celtics was playing at unsustainable on defense. which has dropped off

no offense to them but until they get Hayward. they don't have our talent level. our bench is deep. Beating them is not same as beating warriors, Cavs, rockets and spurs

PierceFan4ever · Post #289 » by **PierceFan4ever** » Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:16 pm

CoachD wrote:
PierceFan4ever wrote:
Throwback24 wrote:It's not the Celtics, the players on the team and the fan base know the Raptors own them. If they meet up in the playoffs the Celtics are going home.

Don't make any mistake about it. They aren't the team the Wiz swept, the Wiz are now the Raptors sons. The Celtics are in the same tier as them

Oh really? Could have sworn the Celtics beat the Raptors earlier without Kyrie...hmmmm

LOL if you add up the net rating of Boston AND Cleveland this year ... It adds up to SLIGHTLY higher than Toronto. Both of them COMBINED. That's how much better Toronto has been than both ... With a tougher schedule ... With way more west coast games and the fewest home games I'm the league.

Raptors WILL own that 1 seed.

Celtics have played 5 more games than the Raptors. They've played the most games in the league with more back to back than the Raptors. I don't know why that is being ignored. Beating bad teams in the west like the Raps did in their recent west coast trip doesn't prove anything. Celtics have a better record against the west than the Raptors anyway and have a much better record against better competition which is a better indicator against teams .500 and better. Also, it's only been what 30 games into the season? Remember the Raptors having the best record in the east around January and then going on a terrible stretch? And dont give me the Lowry excuse because 1. He's always injured in the second half of the season and 2. Celtics had a better record before Lowry going down (check who was coach of the east for the all star game). I can bring up so many injuries the Celtics had, way more than the Raptors mind you but the point is bring this up in April. Don't bump beating mediocrity teams and whenever Cleveland or Boston loses. And my point had nothing to do with who's going to be #1 in the east even though I do think the Raptors have a shot just like the previous 2 seasons, it was towards the previous poster who said the Raptors "own" the Celtics when they just lost to them without Kyrie or Hayward. There's nothing to suggest that.

CoachD · Post #290 » by **CoachD** » Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:19 pm

PierceFan4ever wrote:
CoachD wrote:
PierceFan4ever wrote:
Oh really? Could have sworn the Celtics beat the Raptors earlier without Kyrie...hmmmm

LOL if you add up the net rating of Boston AND Cleveland this year ... It adds up to SLIGHTLY higher than Toronto. Both of them COMBINED. That's how much better Toronto has been than both ... With a tougher schedule ... With way more west coast games and the fewest home games I'm the league.

Raptors WILL own that 1 seed.

Celtics have played 5 more games than the Raptors. They've played the most games in the league with more back to back than the Raptors. I don't know why that is being ignored. Beating bad teams in the west like the Raps did in their recent west coast trip doesn't prove anything. Celtics have a better record against the west than the Raptors anyway and have a much better record against better competition which is a better indicator against teams .500 and better. Also, it's only been what 30 games into the season? Remember the Raptors having the best record in the east around January and then going on a terrible stretch? And dont give me the Lowry excuse because 1. He's always injured in the second half of the season and 2. Celtics had a better record before Lowry going down (check who was coach of the east for the all star game). I can bring up so many injuries the Celtics had, way more than the Raptors mind you but the point is bring this up in April. Don't bump beating mediocrity teams and whenever Cleveland or Boston loses. And my point had nothing to do with who's going to be #1 in the east even though I do think the Raptors have a shot just like the previous 2 seasons, it was towards the previous poster who said the Raptors "own" the Celtics when they just lost to them without Kyrie or Hayward. There's nothing to suggest that.

Raptors are ALL DONE with games in the Pacific time zone for this season. Celtics aren't ... And historically all East teams are lucky to come out with a .500 record due to travel etc.

Boston has played 5 more home games and Toronto has the best home record in the league.

Boston has a 2.5 game lead with Toronto and the same number of losses.

Sorry but Toronto is in the driver's seat. Boston just has to hope they lose.

PierceFan4ever · Post #291 » by **PierceFan4ever** » Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:19 pm

KnightofHyrule wrote:
PierceFan4ever wrote:
Throwback24 wrote:It's not the Celtics, the players on the team and the fan base know the Raptors own them. If they meet up in the playoffs the Celtics are going home.

Don't make any mistake about it. They aren't the team the Wiz swept, the Wiz are now the Raptors sons. The Celtics are in the same tier as them

Oh really? Could have sworn the Celtics beat the Raptors earlier without Kyrie...hmmmm

And lemme guess, the Lakers could eliminate the Rockets? The Heat, without Whiteside, Dragic, Johnson & Winslow could eliminate the Celtics?

Yes, the Celtics beat the Raptors without Hayward and Irving. Because good teams lose to bad teams all the time, especially on the road. You learned that last night, at home.

Now, I'm not about calling the Wiz and Celtics our "sons", because when you factor in regular season fatigue, it could make the playoff matchups are pretty close. I have no idea how Lowry's restricted minutes are going to help him in the long run. I also expect he will take quite a few games off in the 2nd half of the season. But monitoring Lowry and DeRozan's fatigue levels can affect exactly what tier the Raptors will be in come April.

Well you answered my point. You can't call anyone your "sons" if you have yet to beat them or in that meeting they were missing their 2 best players. That's actually the opposite. That was my point.

RaptorsLife · Post #292 » by **RaptorsLife** » Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:22 pm

yeah wizards are wildcard for sure. there starting lineup is elite when there healthy but bench not so much but playoffs it's starters who win the games

PierceFan4ever · Post #293 » by **PierceFan4ever** » Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:26 pm

CoachD wrote:
PierceFan4ever wrote:
CoachD wrote:
LOL if you add up the net rating of Boston AND Cleveland this year ... It adds up to SLIGHTLY higher than Toronto. Both of them COMBINED. That's how much better Toronto has been than both ... With a tougher schedule ... With way more west coast games and the fewest home games I'm the league.

Raptors WILL own that 1 seed.

Celtics have played 5 more games than the Raptors. They've played the most games in the league with more back to back than the Raptors. I don't know why that is being ignored. Beating bad teams in the west like the Raps did in their recent west coast trip doesn't prove anything. Celtics have a better record against the west than the Raptors anyway and have a much better record against better competition which is a better indicator against teams .500 and better. Also, it's only been what 30 games into the season? Remember the Raptors having the best record in the east around January and then going on a terrible stretch? And dont give me the Lowry excuse because 1. He's always injured in the second half of the season and 2. Celtics had a better record before Lowry going down (check who was coach of the east for the all star game). I can bring up so many injuries the Celtics had, way more than the Raptors mind you but the point is bring this up in April. Don't bump beating mediocrity teams and whenever Cleveland or Boston loses. And my point had nothing to do with who's going to be #1 in the east even though I do think the Raptors have a shot just like the previous 2 seasons, it was towards the previous poster who said the Raptors "own" the Celtics when they just lost to them without Kyrie or Hayward. There's nothing to suggest that.

Raptors are ALL DONE with games in the Pacific time zone for this season. Celtics aren't ... And historically all East teams are lucky to come out with a .500 record due to travel etc.

Boston has played 5 more home games and Toronto has the best home record in the league.

Boston has a 2.5 game lead with Toronto and the same number of losses.

Sorry but Toronto is in the driver's seat. Boston just has to hope they lose.

This isn't the 2013 western conference. Like I said the Celtics have one of the best records against the West. I don't get why you are choosing to ignore the 5 games being played by the Celtics over the Raptors. That's much less rest. The Raptors have to win 5 more games without any losses to even up with the Celtics. Winning every night isn't easy. Toronto was in the driver's seat last year too in January but didn't get the #1 seed when they were actually there at a later point in the season with a 4 game cushion over the Celtics at that time. Are the Raptors as of right now the last 8 or so games playing better than the Celtics? Sure why not. The regular season is interchangeable, we aren't even at the half point yet of the season for you to be declaring "Boston needs to hope Toronto loses" like its late April.

Shock Defeat · Post #294 » by **Shock Defeat** » Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:28 pm

bmurph128 wrote:The Raptors and Rockets are very similar teams. Both consistently perform in the regular season and don't do much in the playoffs.

The Raptors catch so much flak for the Cavs beating them down - but for some reason people give the Rockets a pass. Probably because Harden is a super star while the Raptors just have all stars.

If LeBron was out for game 4 of the series last year, and the Cavs destroyed the Raptors in Toronto, there would still be threads laughing at the Raptors.

You mean the Kawhi-less Spurs that are still like 20-9 or something without him? If The Cavs were this good without LeBron, then you'd have a point. The Kawhi-less Spurs are still really, really good and can beat anybody.

Cowbulls · Post #295 » by **Cowbulls** » Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:37 pm

At this point, the 2nd best team in the East is probably the Cavs...right behind the Bulls.

Vee-Rex · Post #296 » by **Vee-Rex** » Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:41 pm

Cowbulls wrote:At this point, the 2nd best team in the East is probably the Cavs...right behind the Bulls.

We shall see tonight, good sir!

Seabass11 · Post #297 » by **Seabass11** » Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:43 pm

RaptorsLife wrote:yeah wizards are wildcard for sure. there starting lineup is elite when there healthy but bench not so much but playoffs it's starters who win the games

I think the Bucks are the wild card. If they can get Jabari back healthy and performing at the level he was before the injury, they could be a handful.

RaptorsLife · Post #298 » by **RaptorsLife** » Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:48 pm

Seabass11 wrote:
RaptorsLife wrote:yeah wizards are wildcard for sure. there starting lineup is elite when there healthy but bench not so much but playoffs it's starters who win the games

I think the Bucks are the wild card. If they can get Jabari back healthy and performing at the level he was before the injury, they could be a handful.

besides cavs. Bucks in any series will have best player. That raptors bucks series last seaso should have went to game 7 but bucks choked free throws in game 6

now Giannis is even better and Eric Bledsoe. they have talent to be wildcard too.

Sixers can be wildcard too if they can make playoffs. Embiid is gonna get huge amount of calls in playoffs lol. also he's amazing

I said it other thread. If you avoid the cavs in first round. you can pull a upset against Raptors, Celtics and 4th seed. east is deep

Cowbulls · Post #299 » by **Cowbulls** » Thu Dec 21, 2017 6:20 pm

Vee-Rex wrote:
Cowbulls wrote:At this point, the 2nd best team in the East is probably the Cavs...right behind the Bulls.

We shall see tonight, good sir!

With MJ's new surgery that made him white, almost 7 feet tall with a beard I just don't see how the cavs will win. Guess we will find out.

Vee-Rex · Post #300 » by **Vee-Rex** » Thu Dec 21, 2017 6:24 pm

Cowbulls wrote:
Vee-Rex wrote:
Cowbulls wrote:At this point, the 2nd best team in the East is probably the Cavs...right behind the Bulls.

We shall see tonight, good sir!

With MJ's new surgery that made him white, almost 7 feet tall with a beard I just don't see how the cavs will win. Guess we will find out.

He torches us all the time - I'm sure he'll have a big game.