Star Wars Episode VIII - SPOILERS

[cayuck]

Saw this movie, thought it was basically on the level of the prequels.

Leia being blown up out of a ship and then randomly using the force to float back in and continue on in the movie was the worst sequence of any Star Wars movie I’ve ever watched. For one of the original characters to be treated that way, posthumously no less, was unbelievable insensitive. Let her have the dignified death she deserves or don’t even approach it.


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[E-Balla]

We never saw the Resistance on the run. We saw them win and find Luke Skywalker and we had hope for their next encounter. They were not on the run at all.

Ok let me break this down step by step. At the end of TFA they just beat Starkiller base and found Luke. What's next though? They're still on their base planet, they've still had most of their forces decimated, and the First Order is still coming to destroy them. There's no way a movie taking place directly after the end of TFA wouldn't start with them being on the run. We didn't see them being chased in the actual movie but the First Order chasing them down is the only logical next step in the story. That's why at the start of this movie they're on the brink of destruction - it had to start that way to be connected to the end of last movie.

The Resistance and the Rebels before them have always had advanced technology and weapons at their disposal. Think they had X-wings, Y-wings, B-wings, cruisers, frigates, droids, cannons. They always had enough tech to pose a threat. They always had equal numbers to match an imperial or first order assault. Now they don't. That's what I mean by truly on the run because that hadn't happened in other movies. There were always secret rebel bases and more people. Now the entire resistance is flying in the Millennium Falcon and has to rebuild. We've never ever seen that in Star Wars.

Again you care about the optics and not how any of this serves the narrative of the trilogy. No matter what vehicles they're in they were always the underdogs and they were already on the run at the start of the damn movie/end of the last movie.

I'd understand the criticism of the Leia force pulling through space. I'd get a criticism that Finn and Rose are not necessary to this movie's plot. I'd accept that certain characters like Phasma and BB-9E were unnecessary marketing ploys. (Hello Porgs.) I'd hear that, but to say nothing changes is blindly untrue.

You're only mentioning superficial changes. I'm done here you need to look into storytelling or learn to pay attention to movies more if you think this movie shook up the status quo because now they're in the millennium falcon instead of a cruiser.

Honestly, you have no idea about film or storytelling. You're just throwing words against a wall. Your initial argument was that there was no major change from TFA to TLJ like Han being frozen in carbonite.

You say a radical change in character behaviour (Leia) is nothing major, replacing the main protagonist is superficial then I have no idea what would represent somethig major to you.

You just want to hate the movie. Cool. Enjoy that. I'll enjoy TLJ's flawed brilliance. May the Force be with you.

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Replacing the main protagonist? WTF are you talking about its still Rey! That's what I'm saying you're spewing nonsense and acting like Star Wars fans want to hate the movie like I didn't love TFA. FOH all your posts been nonsense.

[NBA Fan 1234]

"Flawed brilliance?"

[E-Balla]

The Resistance and the Rebels before them have always had advanced technology and weapons at their disposal. Think they had X-wings, Y-wings, B-wings, cruisers, frigates, droids, cannons. They always had enough tech to pose a threat. They always had equal numbers to match an imperial or first order assault. Now they don't. That's what I mean by truly on the run because that hadn't happened in other movies. There were always secret rebel bases and more people. Now the entire resistance is flying in the Millennium Falcon and has to rebuild. We've never ever seen that in Star Wars

This is totally incorrect. The rebels were NEVER equals to the Empire in Tech or Numbers. Tie FIghters were actually more advanced than Xwings. Rebels had nothing that could build AT ATs/Imperial walkers etc. The rebels did not even come close to having tech that could build a death star. They also did not even come close to having the money that the empire had. The rebels were ALWAYS on the run. They could NOT stand toe to toe overall. The rebels just had a strong resolve to keep fighting. They always took the most losses confronting the Empire in the grand scheme. A few battles won here and there dont change that. You said they had SECRET bases. That proves the rebels had to HIDE from the empire. The Empire and the Rebels were not equals. They truly posed no serious threat until a new hope and they attacked the death star at the end. And if it was not for Luke using the force...they would not have done it all. so there goes that. Having a force user on they side turned everything in they favor in the three movies. Luke is the one that saved Han. Not the Rebels. They knew where he was at and did nothing, but have Leia and Chewie come

Thats what made SW. SW. it was David(rebels) beating Goliath(empire)

Its crazy to me people can love something so much and have such a fundamental misunderstanding at what makes it work...

[IllmaticHandler]

"Flawed brilliance?"

Never have seen a movie where you CANT Like it like that . You literally have people all over saying you wrong for having issues with the movie. If you do...you just a butthurt fanboy, and don't understand whats going on. Mind you, this is by people who only mostly pay attention to SW when a movie is out...no other time.

[Fury]

The Resistance and the Rebels before them have always had advanced technology and weapons at their disposal. Think they had X-wings, Y-wings, B-wings, cruisers, frigates, droids, cannons. They always had enough tech to pose a threat. They always had equal numbers to match an imperial or first order assault. Now they don't. That's what I mean by truly on the run because that hadn't happened in other movies. There were always secret rebel bases and more people. Now the entire resistance is flying in the Millennium Falcon and has to rebuild. We've never ever seen that in Star Wars

This is totally incorrect. The rebels were NEVER equals to the Empire in Tech or Numbers. Tie FIghters were actually more advanced than Xwings. Rebels had nothing that could build AT ATs/Imperial walkers etc. The rebels did not even come close to having tech that could build a death star. They also did not even come close to having the money that the empire had. The rebels were ALWAYS on the run. They could NOT stand toe to toe overall. The rebels just had a strong resolve to keep fighting. They always took the most losses confronting the Empire in the grand scheme. A few battles won here and there dont change that. You said they had SECRET bases. That proves the rebels had to HIDE from the empire. The Empire and the Rebels were not equals. They truly posed no serious threat until a new hope and they attacked the death star at the end. And if it was not for Luke using the force...they would not have done it all. so there goes that. Having a force user on they side turned everything in they favor in the three movies. Luke is the one that saved Han. Not the Rebels. They knew where he was at and did nothing, but have Leia and Chewie come

Thats what made SW. SW. it was David(rebels) beating Goliath(empire)

Its crazy to me people can love something so much and have such a fundamental misunderstanding at what makes it work...

So basically it’s still Star Wars? Don’t even understand how both sides are arguing now

[Fury]

"Flawed brilliance?"

Never have seen a movie where you CANT Like it like that . You literally have people all over saying you wrong for having issues with the movie. If you do...you just a butthurt fanboy, and don't understand whats going on. Mind you, this is by people who only mostly pay attention to SW when a movie is out...no other time.

Well, these are movies following up movies. I think a lot of the arguing stems from filmmaking and disagreement on storylines. Like omg luke wouldn’t do that and eww terribly written, which can be talked about fanboy or not.

[E-Balla]

This is totally incorrect. The rebels were NEVER equals to the Empire in Tech or Numbers. Tie FIghters were actually more advanced than Xwings. Rebels had nothing that could build AT ATs/Imperial walkers etc. The rebels did not even come close to having tech that could build a death star. They also did not even come close to having the money that the empire had. The rebels were ALWAYS on the run. They could NOT stand toe to toe overall. The rebels just had a strong resolve to keep fighting. They always took the most losses confronting the Empire in the grand scheme. A few battles won here and there dont change that. You said they had SECRET bases. That proves the rebels had to HIDE from the empire. The Empire and the Rebels were not equals. They truly posed no serious threat until a new hope and they attacked the death star at the end. And if it was not for Luke using the force...they would not have done it all. so there goes that. Having a force user on they side turned everything in they favor in the three movies. Luke is the one that saved Han. Not the Rebels. They knew where he was at and did nothing, but have Leia and Chewie come

Thats what made SW. SW. it was David(rebels) beating Goliath(empire)

Its crazy to me people can love something so much and have such a fundamental misunderstanding at what makes it work...

So basically it’s still Star Wars? Don’t even understand how both sides are arguing now

No one in this thread to my knowledge has said it was bad because it wasn't Star Wars. I loved Rouge One and it was totally not Star Wars-y. We don't think it's good because its not good.

[IllmaticHandler]

Its crazy to me people can love something so much and have such a fundamental misunderstanding at what makes it work...

So basically it’s still Star Wars? Don’t even understand how both sides are arguing now

No one in this thread to my knowledge has said it was bad because it wasn't Star Wars. I loved Rouge One and it was totally not Star Wars-y. We don't think it's good because its not good.

Rogue One Audience Score is 87%.

[Oscirus]

'

42 percent is till a big drop unless you're saying that kids were going to somehow make up that difference which we both know isn't true. Nobody's saying this is going to be a bomb, but let's not act like it's the success that media wants to pretend it is either.

And the media definitely knows what it's doing by releasing all these articles about trolls affecting ratings. The implication being that the only reason that there's such a huge disconnect between the rt score and the critic score is racist, sexist trolls.
See the ghostbusters playbook.

It's a drop, but it's still going to make a crap ton of money worldwide. And yes, the kids thing actually determines a lot of box office declines. I guarantee you'll see a smaller % decline once kids are out of school.

Oh it's going to be a huge success, and it already is. And I don't care what the media is implying, I'm just showing you facts, that it's not simply a matter of, OMG critics were paid off and the fans hate it. Not that black and white.

To say that kids would make up for a 42 percent drop is disingenuous at best. At best it would be maybe a 32 percent drop instead. That's even pushing it.

Nobody's arguing whether or not it's a success. Even the most rabid hater acknowledges that. But if the franchise keeps bleeding fanatics ( the people who'd view these movies five or more times) at it's current rate, then it's going to be in trouble in the future. As for the media, it's not only asinine but also dangerous for them to give a national voice to such hate in order to try and prove that the critics aren't disney bitches. If critics would stop grading Star Wars on a curve, they wouldn't have these problems.

Let me just leave this here: https://www.forbes.com/sites/robcain/2017/12/22/last-jedi-daily-grosses-are-swiftly-collapsing-the-worst-holds-of-all-9-star-wars-movies/#154ee27355c1

Full disclosure, still the second fastest grossing movie ever, but still troubling information.

[E-Balla]

They don't wanna hear that bro. Just stop it the movie is perfect and we're fanboys that are impossible to please.

[Fury]

Its crazy to me people can love something so much and have such a fundamental misunderstanding at what makes it work...

So basically it’s still Star Wars? Don’t even understand how both sides are arguing now

No one in this thread to my knowledge has said it was bad because it wasn't Star Wars. I loved Rouge One and it was totally not Star Wars-y. We don't think it's good because its not good.

Rogue One was mad star warsy. You don’t think it’s good because it subverted a lot of Star Wars tropes and the storylines went in different directions than you wanted.

[Fury]

So basically it’s still Star Wars? Don’t even understand how both sides are arguing now

No one in this thread to my knowledge has said it was bad because it wasn't Star Wars. I loved Rouge One and it was totally not Star Wars-y. We don't think it's good because its not good.

Rogue One Audience Score is 87%.

Read somewhere a lot of the negative reviews now are from new users, so yes butthurt Star Wars fans.

Not to mention the IMDB score is almost the same as rogue one so it’s different everywhere

[IllmaticHandler]

The Numbers don't lie. good article.

[IllmaticHandler]

No one in this thread to my knowledge has said it was bad because it wasn't Star Wars. I loved Rouge One and it was totally not Star Wars-y. We don't think it's good because its not good.

Rogue One Audience Score is 87%.

Read somewhere a lot of the negative reviews now are from new users, so yes butthurt Star Wars fans.

Not to mention the IMDB score is almost the same as rogue one so it’s different everywhere

My dude, that article that was just posted just shuts you down. You have no argument other than arguing. THE AUDIENCES ARE PROVING ITS NOT GOOD IN REAL LIFE. The drop off is staggering.

[Fury]

Rogue One Audience Score is 87%.

Read somewhere a lot of the negative reviews now are from new users, so yes butthurt Star Wars fans.

Not to mention the IMDB score is almost the same as rogue one so it’s different everywhere

My dude, that article that was just posted just shuts you down. You have no argument other than arguing. THE AUDIENCES ARE PROVING ITS NOT GOOD IN REAL LIFE. The drop off is staggering.

It’s still doing well, relax

[IllmaticHandler]

Read somewhere a lot of the negative reviews now are from new users, so yes butthurt Star Wars fans.

Not to mention the IMDB score is almost the same as rogue one so it’s different everywhere

My dude, that article that was just posted just shuts you down. You have no argument other than arguing. THE AUDIENCES ARE PROVING ITS NOT GOOD IN REAL LIFE. The drop off is staggering.

It’s still doing well, relax

You sound like the other dude. It WILL ALWAYS do Good. it's . This is the point your missing. Now that people saw it they dont care for it as much. The initial rush is over.

After opening at nearly 90 percent of The Force Awakens' strength, The Last Jedi has steadily fallen behind, and by Wednesday, its 6th full day in release, it was holding its audience at a lesser rate than every one of the previous eight live action Star Wars movies. It had retained just 16 percent of its opening day gross, a figure that, as the chart below shows, is well below the holds for The Force Awakens, Rogue One, and the last of the prequels, Revenge of the Sith.

[NBA Fan 1234]

Here's to hoping Disney sees this as a slap in the face and makes the RIGHT changes.

[E-Balla]

So basically it’s still Star Wars? Don’t even understand how both sides are arguing now

No one in this thread to my knowledge has said it was bad because it wasn't Star Wars. I loved Rouge One and it was totally not Star Wars-y. We don't think it's good because its not good.

Rogue One was mad star warsy. You don’t think it’s good because it subverted a lot of Star Wars tropes and the storylines went in different directions than you wanted.

No I don't think its good because half the movie is spent focusing in the Rose-Finn plot (which was terrible and so prequely I was waiting on a kid to pop up and say "now that's giant nameless horse racing") and a slow speed rebel chase (which only happens because everyone turns stupid for a the whole movie and it makes no sense). Then on top of that the movie didn't justify it's existence by actually changing the status quo or putting our heroes/villains in a new situation. And being mad the story didn't go in a direction I wanted? If anything I'm mad this movie didn't take the story in ANY direction. I didn't have any theories or **** like that and again I'm on here all the time so you know that.

But go ahead tell me why I don't like the movie ignoring all my posts in this thread explaining it thoroughly. Like I said y'all like the movie because it subverts tropes but no other reason. Ok they subverted a ton of tropes... To what end? Just for **** and giggles? Was it at least entertaining? No? Ok...

Back to what I said in my second post in here then. The biggest trope they subverted is the trope that Star Wars movies are good.

[Oscirus]

Here's to hoping Disney sees this as a slap in the face and makes the RIGHT changes.

I have a feeling that there's a reason that they bought JJ abrams back. He might be boring, but at least he knows enough about the characters to make a coherent movie.