Update: Gagne approves trade to Red Sox

[nykgeneralmanager]

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I agree with what you are saying, but I think you misunderstood my point. My point wasn't that Engel Beltre hasn't, wouldn't and won't develop but that he hasn't had enough at bats or time in the minors to develop all that much more than someone like a Michael Almanzar that the Sox just signed or whoever else they are going to sign as an international free agent.

They signed Beltre for roughly 600K so with how little he has developed (not his fault, he hasn't had the chance to yet), it isn't all that different than dealing 600K in the deal. They can and will (much like the Yanks) go out and just bid another $1M or so on another international free agent. With how far away and underdeveloped he is (because he is 17, not because he isn't a nice prospect), it isn't much of a loss at all for a team that can throw tons of money at the draft and at international free agents.

Yeah I was pretty much agreeing with you. A 16 year old in the GCL is pretty replaceable and far away from the majors, so even if he does pan out, it wouldn't sting for another 6 or 7 years.

[nykgeneralmanager]

I'm amazed the Yankees couldn't do anything to stop this. They gave up garbage and a high risk future player in Beltre for the best set-up man in baseball. And not only do the Yankees not get Gagne (or Dotel), but they also trade away their workhorse in the pen in Proctor. I just don't see the Yankees being all that dangerous now unless that offense goes double uranium for the next three months. mahalo
~Chach~

Well Cashman has made it seem like he was going to give up on Proctor and either replace him with Gagne or Joba. Since the asking price for Gagne was too high for his liking, Joba it is. Joba made his first relief appearance last night and pitched a perfect inning while striking out the side. He hit 100 mph twice and 99 mph four more times. He'll likely be in the Yankee pen next week.

[Chach]

Again, that's nice and all but to have BOTH Gagne and Chamberlain in the pen would make the team deadly rather than effective. With the shakiness that is the Yankees rotation, I would want as solid of a back end of the pen as I could get. Giving up a 3-4 starter for the Yankees in exchange for making that happen seems to be worth it for me. mahalo
~Chach~

[nykgeneralmanager]

Again, that's nice and all but to have BOTH Gagne and Chamberlain in the pen would make the team deadly rather than effective. With the shakiness that is the Yankees rotation, I would want as solid of a back end of the pen as I could get. Giving up a 3-4 starter for the Yankees in exchange for making that happen seems to be worth it for me. mahalo
~Chach~

Cashman wasn't interested in having both Gagne and Chamberlain in the bullpen if it meant sacraficing Ian Kennedy, somebody who could be here a lot longer than 2 months. Most people would take a #1-3 pitcher over a closer, and Gagne wouldn't have even been that for the Yankees. Give me the starter over the middle reliever, especially when the starter is 22 and the middle reliever is a 2 month rental. That's just how I look at it, and I'm glad Cashman does as well. I wouldn't have been too upset if Horne was dealt for Gagne, but that wasn't somebody that Texas wanted apparently.

[cmaff051]

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Cashman wasn't interested in having both Gagne and Chamberlain in the bullpen if it meant sacraficing Ian Kennedy, somebody who could be here a lot longer than 2 months. Most people would take a #1-3 pitcher over a closer, and Gagne wouldn't have even been that for the Yankees. Give me the starter over the middle reliever, especially when the starter is 22 and the middle reliever is a 2 month rental. That's just how I look at it, and I'm glad Cashman does as well. I wouldn't have been too upset if Horne was dealt for Gagne, but that wasn't somebody that Texas wanted apparently.

Or you could just say simply: John Daniels did his best Jerry Colangelo impression.

[threrf23]

I have to say I'm disappointed we didn't add a top quality starting pitcher at the deadline. We've got one legit ace caliber pitcher in Josh Beckett, but Schill & Dice-K, while solid, are iffy.

IMO, if we could have grabbed an ace type to go along with Beckett, had Schill/Dice-K as 3&4, and Lester/Wakefield in our bullpen, with Okajima and Gagne/Papelbon, that would have made us almost unbeatable in a seven game series.

For that reason, I'd love to see Papelbon get a shot at entering our rotation (and Gagne would be our closer). But I know Papelbon likes closing, I know people have questions about his ability as a starter, and I know it in all likelihood won't happen.

[Markos]

I have to say I'm disappointed we didn't add a top quality starting pitcher at the deadline. We've got one legit ace caliber pitcher in Josh Beckett, but Schill & Dice-K, while solid, are iffy.

IMO, if we could have grabbed an ace type to go along with Beckett, had Schill/Dice-K as 3&4, and Lester/Wakefield in our bullpen, with Okajima and Gagne/Papelbon, that would have made us almost unbeatable in a seven game series.

For that reason, I'd love to see Papelbon get a shot at entering our rotation (and Gagne would be our closer). But I know Papelbon likes closing, I know people have questions about his ability as a starter, and I know it in all likelihood won't happen.

Who was available that is better than any of those 3?? IMO the only thing we could have done to make this a perfect day would be Dye. We need him because I am worried about our offense in the playoffs.

[Boston's Future]

This was an excellent trade for the Sox, we now add depth to the best bullpen in baseball already, Gagne, Oki, Pap, 7-8-9... omg... Gabbard was expendable, and his recent success means we didn't have to deal a good pitching prospect. Murphy was really nothing special, and we already have a lot of young OF's. That other kid is 16 and still very raw, so you never know, he's a long way off.

[celtsloyalty]

tavarez is pitching tonight and I assume he will only go 3-4 innings because he's been pitching out of the bullpen so there's a good chance we will see Gagne tonight.

[threrf23]

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Who was available that is better than any of those 3??

I'm not sure, I hadn't been following the action closely. But I would love to see Papelbon get a shot at the rotation and if it doesn't work out he goes back to being the closer come October. It would be low risk IMO. Especially now that we have Gagne, I think Papelbon helps us more as a starter, I have faith in his ability to be an ace caliber starter.

[sunshinekids99]

tavarez is pitching tonight and I assume he will only go 3-4 innings because he's been pitching out of the bullpen so there's a good chance we will see Gagne tonight.

His arm should still be fine to be extended. However, his talent may not get him much further than 3 or 4.

[Chach]

I don't. Papelbon has the mentality and the stuff of a closer. His trip to the pen, while cementing his legacy in Red Sox lore, may have (Please Use More Appropriate Word) his development because he still doesn't have a real third pitch that he can rely on and he goes all out on every pitch. He's going to be pulling a lot of Lester, racking up 100 pitch/5 Inning performances with regularity if you put him in the rotation. If you want him to start, you have to put him in the rotation in Spring Training and leave him there. You can't bounce him into the rotation and with three starts above AAA, expect him to carry the team through the playoffs. Papelbon is the best closer in baseball but a middle of the road starter right now, leave him where he helps the team the most. mahalo
~Chach~

[HeelSox]

Papelbon has 2 pitches....come the 4th inning...he would be completly screwed.

[stro4swift]

how come he's not in the game right NOW?

[threrf23]

Papelbon has 2 pitches....come the 4th inning...he would be completly screwed.

I keep hearing that. I think he'd be okay. But I could be wrong.

[Chach]

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I keep hearing that. I think he'd be okay. But I could be wrong.

I'm pretty sure you are wrong. Remember Josh Beckett from last season, his fastball is better than Paps and his curve is better than Paps' splitter. If you want to be a true, ace type pitcher then you need a passable third pitch to keep guys honest. As of August 2nd, Papelbon doesn't have that. In the off-season, if he refines his slider or develops a real change and develops either pitch at least into an average pitch, then there is a chance for him to develop into an ace type pitcher because he's got the guts to do it. But he simply doesn't have the stuff to step into that role mid-season, especially when it's going to take him a month to stretch out his arm again and he's had all of three starts over AAA in his entire career. mahalo
~Chach~

[Boston's Future]

Getting Gagne is money because of the theory of the most important outs come in the 6th or 7th inning. Well in that situation we are gonna have a closer out there pitching in a pressure situation, which is something I like