ImageImageImageImageImage

Star Wars Episode VIII - SPOILERS

Moderators: Deeeez Knicks, mpharris36, j4remi, NoLayupRule, HerSports85, GONYK, Jeff Van Gully, dakomish23

User avatar
E-Balla
RealGM
Posts: 35,828
And1: 25,125
Joined: Dec 19, 2012
Location: The Poster Formerly Known As The Gotham City Pantalones
   

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - SPOILERS 

Post#501 » by E-Balla » Fri Dec 22, 2017 11:51 pm

Fury wrote:
E-Balla wrote:
Fury wrote:
Of course it served a purpose. More thematic development of failure, of Finn seeing a real reason to rebel, looking at the world beyond the empire and rebels, the scum bags who profit, and definitely something that they’ll touch back on in the future. You just don’t like the reasons, fine but there are reasons why it’s there.

Development of failure? But in the end there were no consequences for their failure besides nameless people that we don't care about who make no difference dying. And that look into the people profiting justifies all of that? It actually just hit me we haven't seen the affect of war or any of the universe at all really. Outside of the First Order and Resistance nothing else seems to exist. It just seemed like a throwaway part of the movie and not a major point. Definitely not worth 30 minutes of screen time.


That’s the whole point to show it! How is that a bad thing to see something outside that?

Yes there were consequences. They lost ackbar, holdo, and numbers, I agree the Leia stuff was stupid but they’re pretty screwed other than having Rey. Sounds kinda like empire strikes back but they had Luke.

They lost Ackbar before that plotline even started and Holdo was going to kill herself anyway as the decoy (plus her own complete stupidity lead to this whole plotline in the first place). Numbers would matter if they weren't already short on numbers. Going from 400,000 to 40,000 people is major when you're going against an army of 500,000. Going from 200 to 20 people is nothing against an army of 500,000. Makes no difference when you're already vastly outnumbered.

And they had nothing other than Rey at the end of last movie.

And ok let's say that was them showing the rest of the universe. It was so completely separated from the main narrative that it made no sense to include it. Its not like it really tied in to anything in the end everyone ended up on salt Hoth anyway.
User avatar
prophet_of_rage
RealGM
Posts: 18,180
And1: 7,401
Joined: Jan 06, 2005

Re: RE: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - SPOILERS 

Post#502 » by prophet_of_rage » Fri Dec 22, 2017 11:53 pm

Oscirus wrote:
Knickstape1214 wrote:Here's to hoping Disney sees this as a slap in the face and makes the RIGHT changes. :pray:

I have a feeling that there's a reason that they bought JJ abrams back. He might be boring, but at least he knows enough about the characters to make a coherent movie.

Brcause they disagrred with Treverrow. Same way they fired the Han Solo directors. Had nothing to do with Johnson or they would have fired him too.

Sent from my SM-N950W using RealGM mobile app
IllmaticHandler
RealGM
Posts: 22,532
And1: 23,325
Joined: Jul 26, 2004

Re: RE: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - SPOILERS 

Post#503 » by IllmaticHandler » Sat Dec 23, 2017 12:01 am

prophet_of_rage wrote:
IllmaticHandler wrote:
prophet_of_rage wrote: The Resistance and the Rebels before them have always had advanced technology and weapons at their disposal. Think they had X-wings, Y-wings, B-wings, cruisers, frigates, droids, cannons. They always had enough tech to pose a threat. They always had equal numbers to match an imperial or first order assault. Now they don't. That's what I mean by truly on the run because that hadn't happened in other movies. There were always secret rebel bases and more people. Now the entire resistance is flying in the Millennium Falcon and has to rebuild. We've never ever seen that in Star Wars


This is totally incorrect. The rebels were NEVER equals to the Empire in Tech or Numbers. Tie FIghters were actually more advanced than Xwings. Rebels had nothing that could build AT ATs/Imperial walkers etc. The rebels did not even come close to having tech that could build a death star. They also did not even come close to having the money that the empire had. The rebels were ALWAYS on the run. They could NOT stand toe to toe overall. The rebels just had a strong resolve to keep fighting. They always took the most losses confronting the Empire in the grand scheme. A few battles won here and there dont change that. You said they had SECRET bases. That proves the rebels had to HIDE from the empire. The Empire and the Rebels were not equals. They truly posed no serious threat until a new hope and they attacked the death star at the end. And if it was not for Luke using the force...they would not have done it all. so there goes that. Having a force user on they side turned everything in they favor in the three movies. Luke is the one that saved Han. Not the Rebels. They knew where he was at and did nothing, but have Leia and Chewie come :-?

Thats what made SW. SW. it was David(rebels) beating Goliath(empire)

The Rebels had cruisers that could battle star destroyers. X-wings to fight tie fighters. Snow speeders to combat AT-ATs. Whatever the Imperials had the rebels had an analogue in every encounter.

Now they have nothing. No ships, no fighters, no supplies. Hell, they don't even have a light saber. It is now Goliath vs David with a pebble and no sling.

Sent from my SM-N950W using RealGM mobile app



If you think rebels were the empires equals, you have been watching the wrong movies. Having X-Wings does not mean they were equals to the tech of a Tie Fighter. Snow Speeders? do you realize there were other battles besides Hoth right? :lol: They had nothing to combat them on the ground vehicle wise anywhere else in the movies. In Fact the only low Altitude Vehicle or ground vehicle period they have used in the old trilogy was the snow speeder. Empire had much more. Schit, the rebels would have lost on Endor if not for some Teddy Bears. The reality is that the Empire was much more advanced and Bigger in Scale as well. Its like saying well Iraq has Jet Fighters/Air Force as well,which makes them equal to Americas Airforce. Please learn the difference between a battle vs a full scale war. The rebels were LOSING the war. Its the reason why the Empire had dominance over the Galaxy. The rebels did not.
Oscirus
RealGM
Posts: 13,530
And1: 9,536
Joined: Dec 09, 2011
       

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - SPOILERS 

Post#504 » by Oscirus » Sat Dec 23, 2017 12:06 am

Fury wrote:
Oscirus wrote:
Knickstape1214 wrote:Here's to hoping Disney sees this as a slap in the face and makes the RIGHT changes. :pray:

I have a feeling that there's a reason that they bought JJ abrams back. He might be boring, but at least he knows enough about the characters to make a coherent movie.


The movie is coherent just ambitious. Glad we at least got this movie over boring BUT REAL STAR WARS. Reminds me of anal wrestling fans

It's hardly coherent. It has an over powered protagonist, an under powered antagonist and characters who make absurd decisions/ do absurd things just to advance the plot.
As for anal fans, if Rian would've at least gotten Luke right, he likely wouldn't have been getting the backlash from the fans that he's currently getting in spite of the film's problems.
Jimmit79 wrote:At this point I want RJ to get paid
User avatar
prophet_of_rage
RealGM
Posts: 18,180
And1: 7,401
Joined: Jan 06, 2005

Re: RE: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - SPOILERS 

Post#505 » by prophet_of_rage » Sat Dec 23, 2017 12:25 am

Knickstape1214 wrote:Someone who’s read at least some of the old canon books and watched the animated shows as well, IMO. :dontknow:

There is no measure. The Last Jedi got rid of Star Wars' elitism as well. Gave it a blank slate.

Sent from my SM-N950W using RealGM mobile app
NBA Fan 1234
RealGM
Posts: 48,653
And1: 28,365
Joined: Jul 16, 2009

Re: RE: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - SPOILERS 

Post#506 » by NBA Fan 1234 » Sat Dec 23, 2017 12:26 am

prophet_of_rage wrote:
Knickstape1214 wrote:Someone who’s read at least some of the old canon books and watched the animated shows as well, IMO. :dontknow:

There is no measure. The Last Jedi got rid of Star Wars' elitism as well. Gave it a blank slate.

Sent from my SM-N950W using RealGM mobile app


Ok, I disagree.

Also, there was no elitism. It was die hard fans vs people who just watch them because they’re fun.
IllmaticHandler
RealGM
Posts: 22,532
And1: 23,325
Joined: Jul 26, 2004

Re: RE: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - SPOILERS 

Post#507 » by IllmaticHandler » Sat Dec 23, 2017 12:40 am

Knickstape1214 wrote:
prophet_of_rage wrote:
Knickstape1214 wrote:Someone who’s read at least some of the old canon books and watched the animated shows as well, IMO. :dontknow:

There is no measure. The Last Jedi got rid of Star Wars' elitism as well. Gave it a blank slate.

Sent from my SM-N950W using RealGM mobile app


Ok, I disagree.

Also, there was no elitism. It was die hard fans vs people who just watch them because they’re fun.



Eliteism my ass. Remember when everything outside of the movies had to be approved by GL first? GL wanted this saga to go deeper than the movies. There would have been NO prequels if was not for the "fan boys". There would be no New Trilogy if not for the "fan boys". SW is still only here because of die-hards. Those who think its just fun, have not kept this franchise alive. Disney did not pay Billions for it because of the casual fan. They paid Billions cause they know there is a HARDCORE fan base behind the movies who will spend money on anything SW in other areas regardless. They did not buy SW ONLY because of the Movies, it's what else comes behind it which the strict movie goer does not care for.
User avatar
prophet_of_rage
RealGM
Posts: 18,180
And1: 7,401
Joined: Jan 06, 2005

Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - SPOILERS 

Post#508 » by prophet_of_rage » Sat Dec 23, 2017 2:42 am

Knickstape1214 wrote:
prophet_of_rage wrote:
Knickstape1214 wrote:Someone who’s read at least some of the old canon books and watched the animated shows as well, IMO. :dontknow:

There is no measure. The Last Jedi got rid of Star Wars' elitism as well. Gave it a blank slate.

Sent from my SM-N950W using RealGM mobile app


Ok, I disagree.

Also, there was no elitism. It was die hard fans vs people who just watch them because they’re fun.

There is always elitism if you argue who is a true fan.

Sent from my SM-N950W using RealGM mobile app
User avatar
prophet_of_rage
RealGM
Posts: 18,180
And1: 7,401
Joined: Jan 06, 2005

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - SPOILERS 

Post#509 » by prophet_of_rage » Sat Dec 23, 2017 3:32 am

Fury wrote:
E-Balla wrote:
Fury wrote:
Rogue One was mad star warsy. You don’t think it’s good because it subverted a lot of Star Wars tropes and the storylines went in different directions than you wanted.

No I don't think its good because half the movie is spent focusing in the Rose-Finn plot (which was terrible and so prequely I was waiting on a kid to pop up and say "now that's giant nameless horse racing") and a slow speed rebel chase (which only happens because everyone turns stupid for a the whole movie and it makes no sense). Then on top of that the movie didn't justify it's existence by actually changing the status quo or putting our heroes/villains in a new situation. And being mad the story didn't go in a direction I wanted? If anything I'm mad this movie didn't take the story in ANY direction. I didn't have any theories or **** like that and again I'm on here all the time so you know that.

But go ahead tell me why I don't like the movie ignoring all my posts in this thread explaining it thoroughly. Like I said y'all like the movie because it subverts tropes but no other reason. Ok they subverted a ton of tropes... To what end? Just for **** and giggles? Was it at least entertaining? No? Ok...

Back to what I said in my second post in here then. The biggest trope they subverted is the trope that Star Wars movies are good.


Of course it served a purpose. More thematic development of failure, of Finn seeing a real reason to rebel, looking at the world beyond the empire and rebels, the scum bags who profit, and definitely something that they’ll touch back on in the future. You just don’t like the reasons, fine but there are reasons why it’s there.


Don't bother. They only want to see what they want to see. The movie has flaws but not as many as they make out. This movie is better than any of the prequels and Return of the Jedi.



Sent from my iPad using RealGM mobile app
User avatar
prophet_of_rage
RealGM
Posts: 18,180
And1: 7,401
Joined: Jan 06, 2005

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - SPOILERS 

Post#510 » by prophet_of_rage » Sat Dec 23, 2017 3:46 am

IllmaticHandler wrote:
prophet_of_rage wrote:
IllmaticHandler wrote:
This is totally incorrect. The rebels were NEVER equals to the Empire in Tech or Numbers. Tie FIghters were actually more advanced than Xwings. Rebels had nothing that could build AT ATs/Imperial walkers etc. The rebels did not even come close to having tech that could build a death star. They also did not even come close to having the money that the empire had. The rebels were ALWAYS on the run. They could NOT stand toe to toe overall. The rebels just had a strong resolve to keep fighting. They always took the most losses confronting the Empire in the grand scheme. A few battles won here and there dont change that. You said they had SECRET bases. That proves the rebels had to HIDE from the empire. The Empire and the Rebels were not equals. They truly posed no serious threat until a new hope and they attacked the death star at the end. And if it was not for Luke using the force...they would not have done it all. so there goes that. Having a force user on they side turned everything in they favor in the three movies. Luke is the one that saved Han. Not the Rebels. They knew where he was at and did nothing, but have Leia and Chewie come :-?

Thats what made SW. SW. it was David(rebels) beating Goliath(empire)

The Rebels had cruisers that could battle star destroyers. X-wings to fight tie fighters. Snow speeders to combat AT-ATs. Whatever the Imperials had the rebels had an analogue in every encounter.

Now they have nothing. No ships, no fighters, no supplies. Hell, they don't even have a light saber. It is now Goliath vs David with a pebble and no sling.

Sent from my SM-N950W using RealGM mobile app



If you think rebels were the empires equals, you have been watching the wrong movies. Having X-Wings does not mean they were equals to the tech of a Tie Fighter. Snow Speeders? do you realize there were other battles besides Hoth right? :lol: They had nothing to combat them on the ground vehicle wise anywhere else in the movies. In Fact the only low Altitude Vehicle or ground vehicle period they have used in the old trilogy was the snow speeder. Empire had much more. Schit, the rebels would have lost on Endor if not for some Teddy Bears. The reality is that the Empire was much more advanced and Bigger in Scale as well. Its like saying well Iraq has Jet Fighters/Air Force as well,which makes them equal to Americas Airforce. Please learn the difference between a battle vs a full scale war. The rebels were LOSING the war. Its the reason why the Empire had dominance over the Galaxy. The rebels did not.


The x-wings always beat the TIE fighters in dogfights in every film. The snowspeeders were magically equipped with grappling hooks to take down AT-ATs and the AT-STs were taken out by Ewoks. In Rogue One X-wings were takindown TIE fighters and AT-ATs.

What they showed on screen was a fighting force that could hold its own with the Empire or First Order. That is no longer the case.


Sent from my iPad using RealGM mobile app
Oscirus
RealGM
Posts: 13,530
And1: 9,536
Joined: Dec 09, 2011
       

Re: RE: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - SPOILERS 

Post#511 » by Oscirus » Sat Dec 23, 2017 5:47 am

prophet_of_rage wrote:
Oscirus wrote:
Knickstape1214 wrote:Here's to hoping Disney sees this as a slap in the face and makes the RIGHT changes. :pray:

I have a feeling that there's a reason that they bought JJ abrams back. He might be boring, but at least he knows enough about the characters to make a coherent movie.

Brcause they disagrred with Treverrow. Same way they fired the Han Solo directors. Had nothing to do with Johnson or they would have fired him too.

Sent from my SM-N950W using RealGM mobile app

About that: http://www.slashfilm.com/star-wars-episode-9-treatment/
Jimmit79 wrote:At this point I want RJ to get paid
User avatar
prophet_of_rage
RealGM
Posts: 18,180
And1: 7,401
Joined: Jan 06, 2005

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - SPOILERS 

Post#512 » by prophet_of_rage » Sat Dec 23, 2017 9:24 am

Oscirus wrote:
prophet_of_rage wrote:
Oscirus wrote:I have a feeling that there's a reason that they bought JJ abrams back. He might be boring, but at least he knows enough about the characters to make a coherent movie.

Brcause they disagrred with Treverrow. Same way they fired the Han Solo directors. Had nothing to do with Johnson or they would have fired him too.

Sent from my SM-N950W using RealGM mobile app

About that: http://www.slashfilm.com/star-wars-episode-9-treatment/


Right back at you.

http://www.vulture.com/2017/09/star-wars-episode-8-colin-trevorrow-firing-explanation.html



Sent from my iPad using RealGM mobile app
User avatar
prophet_of_rage
RealGM
Posts: 18,180
And1: 7,401
Joined: Jan 06, 2005

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - SPOILERS 

Post#513 » by prophet_of_rage » Sat Dec 23, 2017 9:26 am

prophet_of_rage wrote:
Oscirus wrote:
prophet_of_rage wrote:Brcause they disagrred with Treverrow. Same way they fired the Han Solo directors. Had nothing to do with Johnson or they would have fired him too.

Sent from my SM-N950W using RealGM mobile app

About that: http://www.slashfilm.com/star-wars-episode-9-treatment/


Right back at you.

http://www.vulture.com/2017/09/star-wars-episode-8-colin-trevorrow-firing-explanation.html

http://ew.com/movies/2017/12/21/rian-johnson-star-wars-last-jedi-backlash/





Sent from my iPad using RealGM mobile app




Sent from my iPad using RealGM mobile app
User avatar
prophet_of_rage
RealGM
Posts: 18,180
And1: 7,401
Joined: Jan 06, 2005

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - SPOILERS 

Post#514 » by prophet_of_rage » Sat Dec 23, 2017 9:28 am

prophet_of_rage wrote:
Oscirus wrote:
prophet_of_rage wrote:Brcause they disagrred with Treverrow. Same way they fired the Han Solo directors. Had nothing to do with Johnson or they would have fired him too.

Sent from my SM-N950W using RealGM mobile app

About that: http://www.slashfilm.com/star-wars-episode-9-treatment/


Right back at you.

http://www.vulture.com/2017/09/star-wars-episode-8-colin-trevorrow-firing-explanation.html



Sent from my iPad using RealGM mobile app

You do know they gave Rian Johnson his very own trilogy where he will write and direct all 3. That should show confidence in him.


Sent from my iPad using RealGM mobile app
User avatar
prophet_of_rage
RealGM
Posts: 18,180
And1: 7,401
Joined: Jan 06, 2005

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - SPOILERS 

Post#515 » by prophet_of_rage » Sat Dec 23, 2017 9:39 am

Oscirus wrote:
prophet_of_rage wrote:
Oscirus wrote:I have a feeling that there's a reason that they bought JJ abrams back. He might be boring, but at least he knows enough about the characters to make a coherent movie.

Brcause they disagrred with Treverrow. Same way they fired the Han Solo directors. Had nothing to do with Johnson or they would have fired him too.

Sent from my SM-N950W using RealGM mobile app

About that: http://www.slashfilm.com/star-wars-episode-9-treatment/

http://variety.com/2017/film/news/j-j-abrams-star-wars-episode-ix-director-colin-trevorrow-1202548094/


Sent from my iPad using RealGM mobile app
Oscirus
RealGM
Posts: 13,530
And1: 9,536
Joined: Dec 09, 2011
       

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - SPOILERS 

Post#516 » by Oscirus » Sat Dec 23, 2017 9:47 am



And? I showed you proof that Rian was working on nine but wasn't anymore and you show me proof of Colin getting fired. So what? I know that he got fired. That wasn't the argument.
Jimmit79 wrote:At this point I want RJ to get paid
User avatar
prophet_of_rage
RealGM
Posts: 18,180
And1: 7,401
Joined: Jan 06, 2005

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - SPOILERS 

Post#517 » by prophet_of_rage » Sat Dec 23, 2017 9:55 am

E-Balla wrote:
Fury wrote:
E-Balla wrote:Development of failure? But in the end there were no consequences for their failure besides nameless people that we don't care about who make no difference dying. And that look into the people profiting justifies all of that? It actually just hit me we haven't seen the affect of war or any of the universe at all really. Outside of the First Order and Resistance nothing else seems to exist. It just seemed like a throwaway part of the movie and not a major point. Definitely not worth 30 minutes of screen time.


That’s the whole point to show it! How is that a bad thing to see something outside that?

Yes there were consequences. They lost ackbar, holdo, and numbers, I agree the Leia stuff was stupid but they’re pretty screwed other than having Rey. Sounds kinda like empire strikes back but they had Luke.

They lost Ackbar before that plotline even started and Holdo was going to kill herself anyway as the decoy (plus her own complete stupidity lead to this whole plotline in the first place). Numbers would matter if they weren't already short on numbers. Going from 400,000 to 40,000 people is major when you're going against an army of 500,000. Going from 200 to 20 people is nothing against an army of 500,000. Makes no difference when you're already vastly outnumbered.

And they had nothing other than Rey at the end of last movie.

And ok let's say that was them showing the rest of the universe. It was so completely separated from the main narrative that it made no sense to include it. Its not like it really tied in to anything in the end everyone ended up on salt Hoth anyway.


https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2017/12/20/one-reason-the-last-jedi-is-a-masterpiece-it-shatters-our-star-wars-nostalgia/#1b7208f11d4b


Sent from my iPad using RealGM mobile app
Oscirus
RealGM
Posts: 13,530
And1: 9,536
Joined: Dec 09, 2011
       

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - SPOILERS 

Post#518 » by Oscirus » Sat Dec 23, 2017 10:10 am

prophet_of_rage wrote:
E-Balla wrote:
Fury wrote:
That’s the whole point to show it! How is that a bad thing to see something outside that?

Yes there were consequences. They lost ackbar, holdo, and numbers, I agree the Leia stuff was stupid but they’re pretty screwed other than having Rey. Sounds kinda like empire strikes back but they had Luke.

They lost Ackbar before that plotline even started and Holdo was going to kill herself anyway as the decoy (plus her own complete stupidity lead to this whole plotline in the first place). Numbers would matter if they weren't already short on numbers. Going from 400,000 to 40,000 people is major when you're going against an army of 500,000. Going from 200 to 20 people is nothing against an army of 500,000. Makes no difference when you're already vastly outnumbered.

And they had nothing other than Rey at the end of last movie.

And ok let's say that was them showing the rest of the universe. It was so completely separated from the main narrative that it made no sense to include it. Its not like it really tied in to anything in the end everyone ended up on salt Hoth anyway.


https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2017/12/20/one-reason-the-last-jedi-is-a-masterpiece-it-shatters-our-star-wars-nostalgia/#1b7208f11d4b


Sent from my iPad using RealGM mobile app


Love this line


Opinions expressed by Forbes Contributors are their own.
Jimmit79 wrote:At this point I want RJ to get paid
User avatar
thebuzzardman
RealGM
Posts: 81,917
And1: 95,777
Joined: Jun 24, 2006
Location: Villanovknicks

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - SPOILERS 

Post#519 » by thebuzzardman » Sat Dec 23, 2017 11:26 am

People who argue about how silly episodes 1,2,3, TFA and ANH are sort of ignoring how silly large parts of 4,5 and especially 6 were.

Nostagilia. It's a powerful thing.
Image
NBA Fan 1234
RealGM
Posts: 48,653
And1: 28,365
Joined: Jul 16, 2009

Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - SPOILERS 

Post#520 » by NBA Fan 1234 » Sat Dec 23, 2017 1:25 pm

prophet_of_rage wrote:
Knickstape1214 wrote:
prophet_of_rage wrote:There is no measure. The Last Jedi got rid of Star Wars' elitism as well. Gave it a blank slate.

Sent from my SM-N950W using RealGM mobile app


Ok, I disagree.

Also, there was no elitism. It was die hard fans vs people who just watch them because they’re fun.

There is always elitism if you argue who is a true fan.

Sent from my SM-N950W using RealGM mobile app


K.

Curious if you'd rather listen to and talk with people who just "enjoy" basketball or those who actually understand basketball.

Return to New York Knicks