Game 32: Denver Nuggets @ Portland Trail Blazers 10:00 PM ET

[skywalker33]

No he's averaged 13 and 3. With an offensive rating of SEVENTY. Which is lower than any player in the entire NBA. I knew you were just making those numbers up but i went ahead and got the real numbers for you anyway. Guess i let you troll me?

Maybe you should learn to read and do research. I said “against the Nuggets THIS season” . It’s not hard to “troll you” when you just post crap

Maybe if your post made any sense, at all.... You said he's averaging 25/10 this season...

He's averaging 13 and 3. So unless you double his points and triple his rebounds then your post makes zero sense.

And like NuggetsWy noted, those are just counting stats anyway.

Maybe you need glasses, I said AGAINST US, look at the box scores of the games this season prior to tonight’s game. Is that really too hard for you to comprehend ?

[HoopsMalone]

Maybe you should learn to read and do research. I said “against the Nuggets THIS season” . It’s not hard to “troll you” when you just post crap

Maybe if your post made any sense, at all.... You said he's averaging 25/10 this season...

He's averaging 13 and 3. So unless you double his points and triple his rebounds then your post makes zero sense.

And like NuggetsWy noted, those are just counting stats anyway.

Maybe you need glasses, I said AGAINST US, look at the box scores of the games this season prior to tonight’s game. Is that really too hard for you to comprehend ?

I looked up the numbers and he's averaging 13.5 points and 3 rebounds AGAINST THE NUGGETS THIS SEASON.

Is it really that hard for you to explain what the heck you are talking about? You are off by an order of magnitude with your claims. Perhaps you need to do the research and quit with the pretentiousness.

Lol, and I'm the one "causing the arguments"?

[NuggetsWY]

Those are just counting stats with zero context.
Nurkic is one of the worst offensive players in the league and Jokic is one of the best. Both are very good defenders though.

Blah, blah, blah - you only like statistics when you quote them. This is just another post that appears designed to irritate others and elicit a response - aka start an argument. Please feel free to never respond to anything I say.

You seem to have serious issues my friend. There is nothing in my post designed to irritate others or start arguments. Nurkic is inarguably one of the worst offensive players in the NBA this season. Just look at the numbers. He shoots terribly, turns the ball over constantly, and has the lowest offensive advanced stats imaginable.

You just like to control the discussion on this board and pick and choose your favorite posters to irritate. It doesn't bother me if you don't like me. Just ignore my posts instead of obsessing over them.

Please do not call me "friend". You are incorrect when you say there is nothing in your post designed to irritate, although perhaps it is not "designed". You discount stats when it suits you and then you use stats when it suits you. I will not debate stats with you. I do not try to control discussions, as others often disagree with me, although not in the same way as you do, nor do they seem to have difficulty disagreeing.. I can not just ignore your posts because of my position.

Feel free to learn from my attempts to assist you in learning how to post in a more appropriate manner.

[Nuggets_Talk]

I always thought Nurkic was benefactor of Lillard and Mccolum , put him on the team with no all star guard talent an he would struggle mightily, he landed to the perfect situation ,next to the two all star caliber guards who can make him look good on the offense, he's the better finisher than Plumlee and Portland needed some scoring at C position , Nurkic is a good player but I don't think he's the max deal type of a player.

You are correct about him being the benefactor of Lillard and McCollum. Just as plumlee was. He's not a "good player". He had a nice run last year but he's back to his old self this year.

He's a walking turnover who can't hit the broad side of a barn who clogs up driving lanes and hurts spacing. That's why the Blazers are such a poor offensive team now.

Guy is ranked #72 out of 73 centers in offense. Ahead of Bismack "Hands of Stone" Biyombo


He did help improve their abysmal defense quite a bit, but the drag he creates on the other end basically neuters any overall team improvement.

nurkic is ranked 72/73 on offense amongst centers? where did you find this?

[Nuggets_Talk]

Nurkic's stats on the season: 15 pts - 8 reb - 47% FG - 2 assist 1+ blocks
I think Portland's happy with that.
Compare to Jokic: 15 pts - 10 reb - 39% FG - 4 assists 1 steal
Jokic isn't very far ahead of Nurkic.

Those are just counting stats with zero context.
Nurkic is one of the worst offensive players in the league and Jokic is one of the best. Both are very good defenders though.

You do realize Nurkic has averaged 25/10 against us this season , right ?

huh? are you sure?

[MidMountain]

I always thought Nurkic was benefactor of Lillard and Mccolum , put him on the team with no all star guard talent an he would struggle mightily, he landed to the perfect situation ,next to the two all star caliber guards who can make him look good on the offense, he's the better finisher than Plumlee and Portland needed some scoring at C position , Nurkic is a good player but I don't think he's the max deal type of a player.

You are correct about him being the benefactor of Lillard and McCollum. Just as plumlee was. He's not a "good player". He had a nice run last year but he's back to his old self this year.

He's a walking turnover who can't hit the broad side of a barn who clogs up driving lanes and hurts spacing. That's why the Blazers are such a poor offensive team now.

Guy is ranked #72 out of 73 centers in offense. Ahead of Bismack "Hands of Stone" Biyombo


He did help improve their abysmal defense quite a bit, but the drag he creates on the other end basically neuters any overall team improvement.

nurkic is ranked 72/73 on offense amongst centers? where did you find this?

I couldn't find this anywhere either. Nurkic is near the bottom in offensive rating but not 72 of 73.

[HoopsMalone]

You are correct about him being the benefactor of Lillard and McCollum. Just as plumlee was. He's not a "good player". He had a nice run last year but he's back to his old self this year.

He's a walking turnover who can't hit the broad side of a barn who clogs up driving lanes and hurts spacing. That's why the Blazers are such a poor offensive team now.

Guy is ranked #72 out of 73 centers in offense. Ahead of Bismack "Hands of Stone" Biyombo


He did help improve their abysmal defense quite a bit, but the drag he creates on the other end basically neuters any overall team improvement.

nurkic is ranked 72/73 on offense amongst centers? where did you find this?

I couldn't find this anywhere either. Nurkic is near the bottom in offensive rating but not 72 of 73.

He's 72nd in ORPM . Of 73. He's a truly wretched offensive player.

Note Portland has been an elite offense for many years thanks to Lillard. This year they are bottom of the barrel offensively due to the Nurkic effect.

The Nuggets went from a good offense to a historic offense after they dumped Nurkic in the lineup last year.

I mean the guy has a 92 o-rating, -5.0 OBPM, -3.3 ORPM.

He shoots 49% TS which is absolutely disgusting for a center. Nearly a full 10 points lower than a good center should. He averages almost 4 turnovers/game which is frankly absurd for such a poor offensive player. And to top it all off the guy doesn't even have 3 point range so he hurts spacing.

He's a total disaster in the PNR because he enables defenses to trap Lillard. You can just completely ignore Nurkic because if they throw him the ball he's a non factor to shoot and if he puts the ball on the floor... well that's why the guy averages 4 turnovers per game. That and his penchant for setting illegal screens.

Add it all up and you've got easily one of the worst offensive players in the NBA right now. Not to mention the worst haircut.

[Nuggets_Talk]

That’s insane to read. Nurkic looks pretty good this year. I’m shocked he’s not only bad but second worst in the league?

[HoopsMalone]

That’s insane to read. Nurkic looks pretty good this year. I’m shocked he’s not only bad but second worst in the league?

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/ORPM/position/9

[HoopsMalone]

That’s insane to read. Nurkic looks pretty good this year. I’m shocked he’s not only bad but second worst in the league?

To be fair he's ranked 7th defensively by DRPM. DRPM is a little more flawed of a measure so I don't make adamant claims using it, but there is zero question he's a high impact defender. Simply watching him play should make that obvious. But if you're fan of stats based approach, there is no doubt the stats support massive defensive improvement since Portland acquired Nurkic.

Overall, he's a pretty neutral player. He'll make you strong defensively and weak offensively.


They are #23 offensively, and tied for #2 defensively in pace adjusted. I can assure you those stats reflect Nurkic's presence more than they do the elite offense/questionable defense that a Lillard/McCollum backcourt provide.

[Nuggets_Talk]

That’s insane to read. Nurkic looks pretty good this year. I’m shocked he’s not only bad but second worst in the league?

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/ORPM/position/9

Jokic 3

Plumlee 37

[NuggetsWY]

That’s insane to read. Nurkic looks pretty good this year. I’m shocked he’s not only bad but second worst in the league?

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/ORPM/position/9

Jokic 3
Plumlee 37

#37 for a backup center seems reasonable - theoretically, the top 30 should be starters - so that would mean he's in the top-10 for backups in +/- anyway

[HoopsMalone]

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/ORPM/position/9

Jokic 3
Plumlee 37

#37 for a backup center seems reasonable - theoretically, the top 30 should be starters - so that would mean he's in the top-10 for backups in +/- anyway

Yeah he's #41 overall. #37 offensive, #35 defensive. But a handful of those guys haven't really played enough minutes so putting him in the upper tier of backups (top ~5-10) is highly reasonable.

I'm guessing they thought they could play together more than they have. But having a backup center who doesn't bleed points is obviously important. I just think they needed to balance out the roster a bit more first with their cap space. Then make maneuvers to trade for a backup center. Obviously, the Nurkic issue last year sorta forced their hand though. Still not entirely sure why Plumlee for Nurkic wasn't an even enough swap without the first rounder though.

[MidMountain]

That’s insane to read. Nurkic looks pretty good this year. I’m shocked he’s not only bad but second worst in the league?

This is a super interesting, to me anyway, read about the RPM statistic:

https://cornerthreehoops.wordpress.com/2014/04/17/explaining-espns-real-plus-minus/

"2. Real Plus-Minus does NOT measure how well a player has performed this season.

Real Plus-Minus is meant to be predictive. It’s interested in how well a player will perform in the future, rather than what he did in the past. RPM’s emphasis on prediction explains why it uses some of the tricks it does.

For instance, I mentioned earlier that RPM uses data from previous seasons in its priors. If my primary goal is to evaluate how well a player did this season, it wouldn’t make a lot of sense to use data from other seasons. However, if I want to predict what will happen in the future, the older numbers can help me differentiate between players who have been consistently good (and will likely keep being good) and players who are merely going through a hot streak (and will likely regress to their mean)."

ORPM demonstrates Nurkic has been, and will likely continue to be, a very limited offensive player. However, the ORPM measurement for this season may be unduly low based upon his turbulent and uneven prior seasons. It does not say that he is currently having the second worst offensive season for a center.

[NuggetsWY]

That’s insane to read. Nurkic looks pretty good this year. I’m shocked he’s not only bad but second worst in the league?

This is a super interesting, to me anyway, read about the RPM statistic:

https://cornerthreehoops.wordpress.com/2014/04/17/explaining-espns-real-plus-minus/

"2. Real Plus-Minus does NOT measure how well a player has performed this season.

Real Plus-Minus is meant to be predictive. It’s interested in how well a player will perform in the future, rather than what he did in the past. RPM’s emphasis on prediction explains why it uses some of the tricks it does.

For instance, I mentioned earlier that RPM uses data from previous seasons in its priors. If my primary goal is to evaluate how well a player did this season, it wouldn’t make a lot of sense to use data from other seasons. However, if I want to predict what will happen in the future, the older numbers can help me differentiate between players who have been consistently good (and will likely keep being good) and players who are merely going through a hot streak (and will likely regress to their mean)."

ORPM demonstrates Nurkic has been, and will likely continue to be, a very limited offensive player. However, the ORPM measurement for this season may be unduly low based upon his turbulent and uneven prior seasons. It does not say that he is currently having the second worst offensive season for a center.

I'm not an advanced metrics guru, but I like the "ratings" - defensive/offensive. It seems interesting that those are also down this year. So I decided to snoop around at some of his other advanced statistics.

Remembering that "per game" doesn't take into account minutes played because that can influence a lot of statistics. I like the "Per 36 Minutes" although that isn't always a fair view either because players that know they are going to play only a few minutes can expend more energy and/or become tentative and afraid to make a mistake.

Nurkic's ORB per 36 has been consistent until this year and it dropped. His DRB is a little low this year, but not much. His assists are lower, but he's on a different team with an offense that doesn't expect him to do much passing. His steals are down, but again, he's on a different team and his defensive role is more basket protection oriented. Interestingly, his usage is the highest of his career and that surprises me.

[bondom34]

The Blazers are quite a bit better offensively w/ him on the bench this year, not sure of his lineups but that's going to drop his ORPM a good bit.

[Mickey8]

Collins might take over the starter role at center position season in Portland very soon.