Signed By Indiana - The Jeremy Lamb Thread

[Eoghan]

Lamb's one of the few that isn't close to being on my excrement list.

[HoopsMalone]

He's the 29th ranked SG now. Behind guys like Nick Young, Ron Baker, Buddy Hield, Will Barton, Alec Burks, Tony Snell and just ahead of legends like Troy Daniels.

I think the injuries have definitely played a part at limiting his offensive impact, but he's still demonstrating all the same defensive lapses that have plagued him for years.

[316Hornets]

He's the 29th ranked SG now. Behind guys like Nick Young, Ron Baker, Buddy Hield, Will Barton, Alec Burks, Tony Snell and just ahead of legends like Troy Daniels.

I think the injuries have definitely played a part at limiting his offensive impact, but he's still demonstrating all the same defensive lapses that have plagued him for years.

29th ranking of what? Where is Batum? Lul

[catch20two]

He's the 29th ranked SG now. Behind guys like Nick Young, Ron Baker, Buddy Hield, Will Barton, Alec Burks, Tony Snell and just ahead of legends like Troy Daniels.

I think the injuries have definitely played a part at limiting his offensive impact, but he's still demonstrating all the same defensive lapses that have plagued him for years.

Still ahead of Batum.

Oh and Langston Galloway is a top 5 SG. I wonder how many of our top assets besides Kemba we’ll have to trade for him.

[catch20two]

29th ranking of what? Where is Batum? Lul

RPM. Batum is 38th.

[HoopsMalone]

He's the 29th ranked SG now. Behind guys like Nick Young, Ron Baker, Buddy Hield, Will Barton, Alec Burks, Tony Snell and just ahead of legends like Troy Daniels.

I think the injuries have definitely played a part at limiting his offensive impact, but he's still demonstrating all the same defensive lapses that have plagued him for years.

29th ranking of what? Where is Batum? Lul

#38 SG. I don't think anyone here is more anti-Batum at SG than I am... (I'm aware many of us are EQUALLY anti-batum... just not willing to concede you are more anti batum lol)

[316Hornets]

He's the 29th ranked SG now. Behind guys like Nick Young, Ron Baker, Buddy Hield, Will Barton, Alec Burks, Tony Snell and just ahead of legends like Troy Daniels.

I think the injuries have definitely played a part at limiting his offensive impact, but he's still demonstrating all the same defensive lapses that have plagued him for years.

29th ranking of what? Where is Batum? Lul

#38 SG. I don't think anyone here is more anti-Batum at SG than I am... (I'm aware many of us are EQUALLY anti-batum... just not willing to concede you are more anti batum lol)

I've got a feeling Lamb isn't as bad on defense as rpm suggests. I've watched his defense a lot and I'm he's a good on the ball defender and sticks with his man off the ball. The main problem is playing with guys who can't guard their man.

[HoopsMalone]

29th ranking of what? Where is Batum? Lul

#38 SG. I don't think anyone here is more anti-Batum at SG than I am... (I'm aware many of us are EQUALLY anti-batum... just not willing to concede you are more anti batum lol)

I've got a feeling Lamb isn't as bad on defense as rpm suggests. I've watched his defense a lot and I'm he's a good on the ball defender and sticks with his man off the ball. The main problem is playing with guys who can't guard their man.

Eh, he definitely gets lost off the ball a lot. He's always been a negative defender and he's had plenty of minutes with each unit this year. His numbers started taking a nosedive on defense once he stopped getting to play with MKG/Marv/Dwight

[316Hornets]

#38 SG. I don't think anyone here is more anti-Batum at SG than I am... (I'm aware many of us are EQUALLY anti-batum... just not willing to concede you are more anti batum lol)

I've got a feeling Lamb isn't as bad on defense as rpm suggests. I've watched his defense a lot and I'm he's a good on the ball defender and sticks with his man off the ball. The main problem is playing with guys who can't guard their man.

Eh, he definitely gets lost off the ball a lot. He's always been a negative defender and he's had plenty of minutes with each unit this year. His numbers started taking a nosedive on defense once he stopped getting to play with MKG/Marv/Dwight

That's because Monk and Frank can't guard anyone.

[HoopsMalone]

I've got a feeling Lamb isn't as bad on defense as rpm suggests. I've watched his defense a lot and I'm he's a good on the ball defender and sticks with his man off the ball. The main problem is playing with guys who can't guard their man.

Eh, he definitely gets lost off the ball a lot. He's always been a negative defender and he's had plenty of minutes with each unit this year. His numbers started taking a nosedive on defense once he stopped getting to play with MKG/Marv/Dwight

That's because Monk and Frank can't guard anyone.

Regardless, it's giving us a true estimate of Lamb's defensive ability instead of masking it by him playing with mkg/marv/dwight

[316Hornets]

Eh, he definitely gets lost off the ball a lot. He's always been a negative defender and he's had plenty of minutes with each unit this year. His numbers started taking a nosedive on defense once he stopped getting to play with MKG/Marv/Dwight

That's because Monk and Frank can't guard anyone.

Regardless, it's giving us a true estimate of Lamb's defensive ability instead of masking it by him playing with mkg/marv/dwight

Playing with two of the worst defenders in the NBA gives us a true estimate of Lambs wherewithal?

[HoopsMalone]

That's because Monk and Frank can't guard anyone.

Regardless, it's giving us a true estimate of Lamb's defensive ability instead of masking it by him playing with mkg/marv/dwight

Playing with two of the worst defenders in the NBA gives us a true estimate of Lambs wherewithal?

Yes, RPM controls for your teammates. So playing with a diverse group of players is how it best assigns you a meaningful value. If you just play with great defenders or poor defenders it has no way to delineate who is responsible for the great/poor defense.

Lamb was subsisting for a long time off other guys defense buoying his ratings. Now that he's played minutes with the other unit the data is sorting out that he's part of the problem defensively.

We saw the same effect with Dwight early in the season. Kemba was dragging him to good offensive ratings. Once the minutes started getting mixed up a little and the data pointed to Kemba being the offensive savant, it wasn't long before Dwight was correctly identified as the poor offensive player.

[316Hornets]

I think you're missing my point. There's a difference between playing with average defenders and two of the worst. No one looks good, no matter how you slice it, when they have to constantly adjust to playing with two of the WORST defenders in the league.

[HoopsMalone]

I think you're missing my point. There's a difference between playing with average defenders and two of the worst. No one looks good, no matter how you slice it, when they have to constantly adjust to playing with two of the WORST defenders in the league.

Yes but the data doesn't care how you look. It cares how you produce. And right now the data says Lamb is a very poor defender. We're only 30 games in, so perhaps Lamb isn't AS negative as the data suggests... but there's no question he's a big negative on defense this year.

Right now he's ranked 79th of 100 defenders at the SG position. Behind guys like Abrines, Ellington, McCollum, and Crabbe. And just ahead of guys like Waiters, JR Smith, Derozan, and Devin Booker.

He's been really bad on defense anyway you slice it.

[316Hornets]

I think you're missing my point. There's a difference between playing with average defenders and two of the worst. No one looks good, no matter how you slice it, when they have to constantly adjust to playing with two of the WORST defenders in the league.

Yes but the data doesn't care how you look. It cares how you produce. And right now the data says Lamb is a very poor defender. We're only 30 games in, so perhaps Lamb isn't AS negative as the data suggests... but there's no question he's a big negative on defense this year.

Right now he's ranked 79th of 100 defenders at the SG position. Behind guys like Abrines, Ellington, McCollum, and Crabbe. And just ahead of guys like Waiters, JR Smith, Derozan, and Devin Booker.

He's been really bad on defense anyway you slice it.

Relying on data to draw conclusions can only take you so far. You are stating this as if it were a scientific fact. Again, tell me how a guy produces with playing along side two of the worst defenders in the NBA? He's going to be found out of position often trying to catch up with the rotations and just going to look terrible more often than not. There's a reason Lamb looked better playing with the starters and it's because the defense is only as strong as the weakest link.

[Diop]

if we are going to reduce Lamb's minutes for whatever reason, I think we should trade him now while he's been pushing out good stats. He's on a relatively cheap contract now.

[HoopsMalone]

I think you're missing my point. There's a difference between playing with average defenders and two of the worst. No one looks good, no matter how you slice it, when they have to constantly adjust to playing with two of the WORST defenders in the league.

Yes but the data doesn't care how you look. It cares how you produce. And right now the data says Lamb is a very poor defender. We're only 30 games in, so perhaps Lamb isn't AS negative as the data suggests... but there's no question he's a big negative on defense this year.

Right now he's ranked 79th of 100 defenders at the SG position. Behind guys like Abrines, Ellington, McCollum, and Crabbe. And just ahead of guys like Waiters, JR Smith, Derozan, and Devin Booker.

He's been really bad on defense anyway you slice it.

Relying on data to draw conclusions can only take you so far. You are stating this as if it were a scientific fact. Again, tell me how a guy produces with playing along side two of the worst defenders in the NBA? He's going to be found out of position often trying to catch up with the rotations and just going to look terrible more often than not. There's a reason Lamb looked better playing with the starters and it's because the defense is only as strong as the weakest link.

The formula takes into account that the other defenders are bad. That's the point you seem to be missing. Lamb isn't the only one who has played with and without Frank Kaminsky.

[316Hornets]

Yes but the data doesn't care how you look. It cares how you produce. And right now the data says Lamb is a very poor defender. We're only 30 games in, so perhaps Lamb isn't AS negative as the data suggests... but there's no question he's a big negative on defense this year.

Right now he's ranked 79th of 100 defenders at the SG position. Behind guys like Abrines, Ellington, McCollum, and Crabbe. And just ahead of guys like Waiters, JR Smith, Derozan, and Devin Booker.

He's been really bad on defense anyway you slice it.

Relying on data to draw conclusions can only take you so far. You are stating this as if it were a scientific fact. Again, tell me how a guy produces with playing along side two of the worst defenders in the NBA? He's going to be found out of position often trying to catch up with the rotations and just going to look terrible more often than not. There's a reason Lamb looked better playing with the starters and it's because the defense is only as strong as the weakest link.

The formula takes into account that the other defenders are bad. That's the point you seem to be missing. Lamb isn't the only one who has played with and without Frank Kaminsky.

Uhh, the formula isn't perfect. You are acting like there can't be error in it. Lamb's played with Frank the most out of anyone by about 100 more minutes. I've watched him play D and he's better than what you are trying to suggest. I'm not going to spend hours proving it to you when all you do is repeatedly cite 'the formula'.

For instance, defenders fg percent is 32 against Lamb greater than 15 feet, but under 6 feet is 71 percent. When he's having to rotate to help Frank or Monk, then he's going to get penalized for the drpm. What that penalty is, we don't know.since 'the formula' isn't publicly available as far as I know.

[bondom34]

Try nbawowy.com.

I was curious in seeing Lamb's improvement with you guys, and it looks like a lot of his struggles are with Frank on court.

Lamb off court: CHA 108.2 DRTG
Lamb on/no Frank: 108.4 (so very minimally worse)
Lamb on/Frank on: 116.4 (way worse)
Frank on/no Lamb: 111.8 (better than w/ Lamb but still bad)

Seems them together is an issue.

[HoopsMalone]

Try nbawowy.com.

I was curious in seeing Lamb's improvement with you guys, and it looks like a lot of his struggles are with Frank on court.

Lamb off court: CHA 108.2 DRTG
Lamb on/no Frank: 108.4 (so very minimally worse)
Lamb on/Frank on: 116.4 (way worse)
Frank on/no Lamb: 111.8 (better than w/ Lamb but still bad)

Seems them together is an issue.

There's a little more to it than that. Zeller being out means if Lamb/Frank are in that Dwight/Zeller are probably not in and Johnny Obryant is.

Also, Lamb on and Frank off means Lamb is probably playing with Dwight/MKG.

Frank on and Lamb off is mostly the first half of the year when Batum was out and Lamb was starting. Frank was playing with Monk and our bench unit was a total mess.

But no one is denying Frank is an AWFUL defender. He's nearly dead last for all big men in RPM. He leads the NBA in pulling the ball out of the net after his man scores on him, he can't defend the PNR, and he's usually scrambing around 8 steps too late to rotate to the open 3 point shooter. Our defensive numbers with Frank on the floor are beyond horrible.

So if anything DRPM knows that Frank sucks at defense and factors that in accordingly. That means Lamb's suckage is truly his own merit. Our starting unit defense improved when Batum came back if that tells you anything. No one would confuse him for a world class defender.