Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIV

[J-Ves]

Can we get a half decent 2 guard for Smith+ Meeks + 2nd?


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[payitforward]

you buy out Deng. and i think deng happily takes a decent buy out.

Ok, I give up.

Deng is owed $54 million, to collect which all he has to do is show up....

[stilldropin20]

you buy out Deng. and i think deng happily takes a decent buy out.

Ok, I give up.

Deng is owed $54 million, to collect which all he has to do is show up....

wall is will cost $20M next year and kuzma about 2 million. pay deng 40 million (buy out) to go away. stretch it over 2 years and its a wash.

maybe you can get the lakers to give up a pick? I mean. you are winning the trade itself on talent. because kuzma is the better player and by better i mean right now. you win it on salary over time as well. Kuzma is on a rookie deal for 5 years.

what more do you want? Philly #1? lol

[pcbothwel]

SD. There is 0 chance Wall is traded in this current iteration of the Wizards, which is correct. Wall is the face of the franchise, in his prime, signed for 5 years after this one. Its not NBA 2k.

The only way Wall is traded would be sometime after 2020.

My opinion is that you play out this Wall/Beal/Otto core until it runs a shore or someone offers an overpay.
We just have to play out this year with Sato/Oubre continuing to grow as support pieces and Morris at the 5. Speaking of which, Morris appears to be healthy and in his 12 games this month he has a per 36 of 17 & 6 with a TS of 62%. I think he could be a real X-Factor in the playoffs against Horford and Love when they try to pick and pop Gortat to death.

I hate how we throw away games against scrub teams, but if come playoff time we see the Wall/Beal/Morris of last year with the Otto/Oubre/Scott/Sato/Mahinmi of this year... I like our odds against everyone.

[stilldropin20]

SD. There is 0 chance Wall is traded in this current iteration of the Wizards, which is correct. Wall is the face of the franchise, in his prime, signed for 5 years after this one. Its not NBA 2k.

The only way Wall is traded would be sometime after 2020.

My opinion is that you play out this Wall/Beal/Otto core until it runs a shore or someone offers an overpay.
We just have to play out this year with Sato/Oubre continuing to grow as support pieces and Morris at the 5. Speaking of which, Morris appears to be healthy and in his 12 games this month he has a per 36 of 17 & 6 with a TS of 62%. I think he could be a real X-Factor in the playoffs against Horford and Love when they try to pick and pop Gortat to death.

I hate how we throw away games against scrub teams, but if come playoff time we see the Wall/Beal/Morris of last year with the Otto/Oubre/Scott/Sato/Mahinmi of this year... I like our odds against everyone.

gotya. i was posting under the premise of trading iso players for system players. But if you are keeping wall no matter what then i understand the position. wall is a very good player no doubt.

My Bulls just traded an iso heavy player in butler(who is at least as good as wall) for system players. and basketball is now more fun to watch. and the system is now starting to work for those players that are willing to move the ball and move without the ball. bball is fun again in chicago. even though we have a terrible record. there is a light at the end.

personally, id cut off my left nut to get kuzma on the Bulls so long as i can keep Mirotic.

[pcbothwel]

Can we get a half decent 2 guard for Smith+ Meeks + 2nd?
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Doubtful. What sucks about both Smith and Meeks is that there was reason to think both of them would be flop this year, but those reasons were defense and health primarily. I just cant believe how bad they are shooting right now.

Meeks: Over the last 7 years he has shot over 1700 3PTA and made 38% of them. He's at just under 30% now. Assuming a regression to the mean... I have to assume he goes on a hot streak soon, but man...
Smith: Unfortunately with our front court depth and Morris getting more time at the 5, I doubt Smith will get a shot to get back in the rotation.
i just dont see how we get better by trading them if we dont trade our 1st or add bad salary, neither of which looks smart.

We just have to hope Meeks gets his shot back, because he looks healthy and fit.

[dangermouse]

Essentially this is Wall for Kuzma, with the added bonus that we help LAL get out of a bad contract, with no other incentive coming our way.

Yuckeroo.

[Ruzious]

SD. There is 0 chance Wall is traded in this current iteration of the Wizards, which is correct. Wall is the face of the franchise, in his prime, signed for 5 years after this one. Its not NBA 2k.

The only way Wall is traded would be sometime after 2020.

My opinion is that you play out this Wall/Beal/Otto core until it runs a shore or someone offers an overpay.
We just have to play out this year with Sato/Oubre continuing to grow as support pieces and Morris at the 5. Speaking of which, Morris appears to be healthy and in his 12 games this month he has a per 36 of 17 & 6 with a TS of 62%. I think he could be a real X-Factor in the playoffs against Horford and Love when they try to pick and pop Gortat to death.

I hate how we throw away games against scrub teams, but if come playoff time we see the Wall/Beal/Morris of last year with the Otto/Oubre/Scott/Sato/Mahinmi of this year... I like our odds against everyone.

gotya. i was posting under the premise of trading iso players for system players. But if you are keeping wall no matter what then i understand the position. wall is a very good player no doubt.

My Bulls just traded an iso heavy player in butler(who is at least as good as wall) for system players. and basketball is now more fun to watch. and the system is now starting to work for those players that are willing to move the ball and move without the ball. bball is fun again in chicago. even though we have a terrible record. there is a light at the end.

personally, id cut off my left nut to get kuzma on the Bulls so long as i can keep Mirotic.

I think the reason people have discussed the option of trading Wall is the extension he signed - that''s at some point going to cost upwards of 40 mil a year. With the salary cap and lux tax caps likely not increasing at significant rates, that salary allows for so little maneuvarability and makes it that much more difficult to keep Oubre - not to mention players like Scott and Sato. It was a feel-good move to sign him to the extension but one that will likely hurt in future years. Having said that, there's very little chance this organization will even consider trading Wall until it's too late to get good value for him.

[pcbothwel]

I really have faith in Wall. I think he will actually get better with age due to his size/length and vision. We look at his contract right now and its a bit scary, but I much rather have him on that contract than the current ones to Blake, Mike Conley, Wiggins, and Jrue...
Or the ones that will be handed out to Cousins, DeAndre, and Paul George

[Dark Faze]

I think Wall will be fine I just think we need to rest him if he really needs it. This season is ultimately meaningless. Our core are still very young sans Wall. And quite frankly we can use a high draft pick.

[payitforward]

I really have faith in Wall. I think he will actually get better with age due to his size/length and vision...

I'm guessing you have a model in mind, a guy Wall reminds you of ("size, length and vision") that got better into his '30s -- if so, who are you thinking of?

We look at his contract right now and its a bit scary, but I much rather have him on that contract than the current ones to Blake, Mike Conley, Wiggins, and Jrue...
Or the ones that will be handed out to Cousins, DeAndre, and Paul George

I don't know if those contracts make Wall's less scary, but man oh man are there some ridiculous ones out there! Wiggins & Jrue Holiday are for sure among the worst, but there are plenty others -- Solomon Hill for $12.5m a year????

[pcbothwel]

I really have faith in Wall. I think he will actually get better with age due to his size/length and vision...

I'm guessing you have a model in mind, a guy Wall reminds you of ("size, length and vision") that got better into his '30s -- if so, who are you thinking of?

We look at his contract right now and its a bit scary, but I much rather have him on that contract than the current ones to Blake, Mike Conley, Wiggins, and Jrue...
Or the ones that will be handed out to Cousins, DeAndre, and Paul George

I don't know if those contracts make Wall's less scary, but man oh man are there some ridiculous ones out there! Wiggins & Jrue Holiday are for sure among the worst, but there are plenty others -- Solomon Hill for $12.5m a year????

I dont think he'll get better into his 30's, but I think he'll get better in the next two years. After that, I believe he'll be more mature and self aware. I dont think he'll feel the need to prove hes a star and he'll let the game come to him.
I think he can get to 15 FGA per game with 4 of them being 3's (25%+ 3PAr) and 5 FTA (35%+ FTr). He doesnt really need much of any real improvement to be a 'good' scorer with that type of breakout.

BTW Jason Kidd is a great example who was actually better from 29-34 than 24-28.

[Dark Faze]

What are thoughts on Alex Len here? He's showing a monster rebounding rate this year, in a contract year though--but if he can keep that rebounding rate up then I think it raises his ceiling as a player pretty considerably. He's been really healthy the last two seasons. Both he and Monroe are in contract years--Phoenix is a tanking team, and I've got to think they aren't particularly sure one way or the other about a Monroe/Len extension at this point.

If they'd entertain Meeks and Mahinmi for both, plus our first... it's something I'd need to think about. That would net them 3 first rounders in this draft. I don't think taking on the Mahinmi contract would bother them that much, but taking on his contract and giving positive (albeit expiring) assets in the bargain may make this trade a bit *too* favorable for us, though the Phoenix FO could be thrilled with getting a first for two guys they have no intention of keeping, while not being bothered with Mahinimi's deal.

I think we'd be able to keep both for something a little more than what we'd have been paying Ian/Meeks. I can see Len getting something around 10 million a year, and perhaps the same for Greg.

I can't say I'm sure about it, but it could check the boxes of being a win now move, a young developing asset talent, and fixing some cap concerns (Mahinmi) all in one. Still, I hesitate on it. What do you guys think?

[payitforward]

I really have faith in Wall. I think he will actually get better with age due to his size/length and vision...

I'm guessing you have a model in mind, a guy Wall reminds you of ("size, length and vision") that got better into his '30s -- if so, who are you thinking of?

I dont think he'll get better into his 30's, but I think he'll get better in the next two years. After that, I believe he'll be more mature and self aware. I dont think he'll feel the need to prove hes a star and he'll let the game come to him.
I think he can get to 15 FGA per game with 4 of them being 3's (25%+ 3PAr) and 5 FTA (35%+ FTr). He doesnt really need much of any real improvement to be a 'good' scorer with that type of breakout.

BTW Jason Kidd is a great example who was actually better from 29-34 than 24-28.

Kidd, definitely. But of course Wall is not really a similar player.

Who knows, you may be right. You're drawing a picture in your mind, & it's a nice one. Hey, your picture of Mike Scott transformed him!

In fact... forget Wall, get back to picturing Mike! He's dropped off a bit the last little while; he needs you to concentrate on him!

[payitforward]

What are thoughts on Alex Len here? He's showing a monster rebounding rate this year, in a contract year though--but if he can keep that rebounding rate up then I think it raises his ceiling as a player pretty considerably. He's been really healthy the last two seasons. Both he and Monroe are in contract years--Phoenix is a tanking team, and I've got to think they aren't particularly sure one way or the other about a Monroe/Len extension at this point.

If they'd entertain Meeks and Mahinmi for both, plus our first... it's something I'd need to think about. That would net them 3 first rounders in this draft. I don't think taking on the Mahinmi contract would bother them that much, but taking on his contract and giving positive (albeit expiring) assets in the bargain may make this trade a bit *too* favorable for us, though the Phoenix FO could be thrilled with getting a first for two guys they have no intention of keeping, while not being bothered with Mahinimi's deal.

I think we'd be able to keep both for something a little more than what we'd have been paying Ian/Meeks. I can see Len getting something around 10 million a year, and perhaps the same for Greg.

I can't say I'm sure about it, but it could check the boxes of being a win now move, a young developing asset talent, and fixing some cap concerns (Mahinmi) all in one. Still, I hesitate on it. What do you guys think?

If Len continues to play well this season, it'll take way more than $10m to keep him. If he doesn't, why would you want him? We can't sign any expensive players to multi-year contracts. Period.

Above all, we cannot give away any more R1 picks. How this isn't obvious by now I'll never understand, since every problem we have is the result of giving away picks.

Plus if we trade 2 for 1, we'll need to add a player immediately.

[Dark Faze]

If Len continues to play well this season, it'll take way more than $10m to keep him. If he doesn't, why would you want him? We can't sign any expensive players to multi-year contracts. Period.

Above all, we cannot give away any more R1 picks. How this isn't obvious by now I'll never understand, since every problem we have is the result of giving away picks.

Plus if we trade 2 for 1, we'll need to add a player immediately.

Not necessarily. If you look around the league, the amount of teams that have a combination of:

A. Having cap space
B. Not having a young developing talent at the position

Are pretty low. What's more is that a lot of teams that fit this criteria are at the bottom of the lottery and are staring at some strong big men players to snatch in the upcoming draft. As well, Len also has a sample size that make a "prove it" kind of contract with a player option at the end pretty likely. I'm not expecting a big pay day if he keeps up this play the remainder of the season.

It's not necessarily keeping first rounders at any cost--it's getting young quality assets that can still develop. If you believe Alex Len is that kind of guy, then the question is how likely are you to do better with a mid first? The salary difference is big, but young is young, and having a guy with a few seasons of development already is valuable.

It's not two for one. It's Monroe and Len for Mahinmi, Meeks and a first. We won't miss either at all.

[Ruzious]

If Len continues to play well this season, it'll take way more than $10m to keep him. If he doesn't, why would you want him? We can't sign any expensive players to multi-year contracts. Period.

Above all, we cannot give away any more R1 picks. How this isn't obvious by now I'll never understand, since every problem we have is the result of giving away picks.

Plus if we trade 2 for 1, we'll need to add a player immediately.

Not necessarily. If you look around the league, the amount of teams that have a combination of:

A. Having cap space
B. Not having a young developing talent at the position

Are pretty low. What's more is that a lot of teams that fit this criteria are at the bottom of the lottery and are staring at some strong big men players to snatch in the upcoming draft. As well, Len also has a sample size that make a "prove it" kind of contract with a player option at the end pretty likely. I'm not expecting a big pay day if he keeps up this play the remainder of the season.

It's not necessarily keeping first rounders at any cost--it's getting young quality assets that can still develop. If you believe Alex Len is that kind of guy, then the question is how likely are you to do better with a mid first? The salary difference is big, but young is young, and having a guy with a few seasons of development already is valuable.

It's not two for one. It's Monroe and Len for Mahinmi, Meeks and a first. We won't miss either at all.

And remember, Phoenix chose to relinquish their rights to him after this season - that's how much they thought of him going into this season. He's got great rebounding numbers, but he's far from a great player and not the type of player that most teams are going for.

[Dark Faze]

And remember, Phoenix chose to relinquish their rights to him after this season - that's how much they thought of him going into this season. He's got great rebounding numbers, but he's far from a great player and not the type of player that most teams are going for.

I think the deal works for both sides, the question really is if we think it's worth missing out on whatever young talent we would have a chance at with pick 20 or so. Personally, I think Len could probably be Gortat 2.0 in a younger, larger body. That's not particularly great, but in picking up a helpful bench player like Monroe and losing the Mahinmi contract in the bargain, while also freeing up Gortat to be moved in another deal, well, it's worth thinking about.

[FAH1223]

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[Dark Faze]

Wall is hurt.