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Political Roundtable Part XVII

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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVII 

Post#141 » by dckingsfan » Wed Dec 27, 2017 7:33 pm

I_Like_Dirt wrote:
dobrojim wrote:Could someone please clarify this efficiency argument? Are you talking about SocSec/Medicare?
Unless my information is waaay out of date (which is possible), the govt agencies that administer
those programs have overhead rates that most corporations can only dream about, on the order of 2% perhaps.


I won't speak for anyone else here, but when I speak to efficiency, I mean at large. So to use health care as an example, Americans, per capita, are spending at the very top of the line for health care, both in terms of public funds and through private funds for insurance. Those combined mean that, per capita, America pays roughly double, or more than any other nation on earth for health care. For their expense, they get some things other countries simply don't, like better service at the top, but they also don't actually provide care for everyone, either. On a per dollar basis, the value is extremely poor overall on health care. I say this not as a critique of SocSec/Medicare, etc. I didn't have any particular target specifically in mind, although if I had to pick, I'd be targeting the likes of trial lawyers, insurance companies, drug companies, etc. There are some other layers to it as well, but those are the biggest ones that really do need to be tackled. The value of one dollar spent on health care in the USA doesn't go nearly as far as one dollar spent on health care basically anywhere else in the world.

Ironically, I actually think the one place where America does get at least reasonable value for dollar is the military. When I say this, I don't mean to say the military couldn't necessarily get better value, or that it shouldn't necessarily see a decrease in overall spending over time, but if you look at how much America spends on their military, and then lump together equivalent budgets from other industrialized countries and see what they get on a per dollar basis, things aren't nearly so lopsided and I'd actually suggest they're in America's favor, for whatever that's worth. Almost everything else besides the military, though, and the value for dollar is rather poor when compared to other industrialized nations.

Violent agreement - like you say, some of the cost drivers (leeches as you call them) are pharma, trial lawyers, hospitals (with their carveouts), physicians (when they don't allow outsourcing of medical services they don't need to provide), etc., etc....

Now, who will be willing to tackle these...
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVII 

Post#142 » by dckingsfan » Wed Dec 27, 2017 7:37 pm

dobrojim wrote:Could someone please clarify this efficiency argument? Are you talking about SocSec/Medicare? Unless my information is waaay out of date (which is possible), the govt agencies that administer those programs have overhead rates that most corporations can only dream about, on the order of 2% perhaps.

And to clarify - it isn't government inefficiency it is system inefficiency. And Social Security isn't climbing as fast as other social services - but it isn't fully funded going forward. It is really the combination of all the social services + debt service that is killing us.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVII 

Post#143 » by stilldropin20 » Wed Dec 27, 2017 7:44 pm

Wizardspride wrote:A question: How do you think Trump voters will react when the GOP goes after social security/medicare? Many of his supporters depend on these programs.

You all know it's coming. The excuse will be that because the deficit is so huge there's no other alternative. Of course they won't mention the part about adding to the deficit themselves (tax cuts).

Anyone who follows politics closely knows that the GOP's ultimate goal has always been to do away with entitlement (I hate that word) programs. Not save these programs but do away with them.

Hopefully, Trump will do as promised and not touch these programs....at least not in the way the GOP in general wants.


i hope he takes a flame thrower to those programs. scorched earth. and instead lays out further tax incentives for corporations to hire more old people. hire more disabled people. and puts and keeps those people back to work.

My grandma worked until 82 years old(died at 92). My grandpa volunteered at church and buying groceries and delivering them to old people until the day he died 88(hit by car in italy). My mom works right now 71. My died worked 12 hours on the very day he died (76 aortic annerism-died 4 hours into surgery). I plan on working until the day i die. part of the reason my family lives so long is because we stay active. we stay off pills/meds(besides the 2 drug addicts of course).

so yeah. I Hope trump burns medicaid. medicare. social security. TO.THE.GROUND. These 3 are unsustainable. unreasonable. illogical. and foremost unhealthy.

Human beings are healthy and happy when we are active. social. and have a sense of purpose. retirement is a death sentence. It's a trap.

Burn those programs down. burn obamacare subsidies down. Then work on the costs of health care so more people can afford it. get big pharma and big corporate medicine PAC's and lobbyists out of congress. Pass laws protecting doctors so mal-practice insurance goes down.

Burn !! it !! down!!! All of it. :lol: :lol: flame thrower. scorched. muthaphunkin. earth.
like i said, its a full rebuild.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVII 

Post#144 » by stilldropin20 » Wed Dec 27, 2017 7:51 pm

gtn130 wrote:SD20 roundly condemns everything appearing on CNN as FAKE NEWS, yet he uncritically accepts tweets from Julian Assange's [fake] twitter account as fact.

This is why it's not worth engaging with deplorable true believer types. There isn't a shred of intellectual honesty - they will believe what they want to believe no matter what the facts say or how you present them. You're playing yourself when you engage with someone who is arguing in bad faith.


ma gawd!!! do your own damn research on that particular post. Obama and the Clinton "got uber wealthy" upon leaving the white house.

and trumps net worth has gone down. His brand has taken a major hit from half of the country. Lots of people wont step foot in his hotels where prior they would often visit. He has also had to kill deals overseas due to conflict of interest.

Come on guys. What are you peddling. Your stupid effin "heros" got rich while in office or shortly after being in office. Obama 11 times richer and he just left!!!! Clintons over 1000 times wealthier. That's not a problem for you??????

yet you want to put trump's finances under a damn microscope?? The hypocrisy is blinding !!! The irony deafening!!! The audacity overwhelming!!!!
like i said, its a full rebuild.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVII 

Post#145 » by stilldropin20 » Wed Dec 27, 2017 7:58 pm

dckingsfan wrote:
FAH1223 wrote:
Wizardspride wrote:A question: How do you think Trump voters will react when the GOP goes after social security/medicare? Many of his supporters depend on these programs.

You all know it's coming. The excuse will be that because the deficit is so huge there's no other alternative. Of course they won't mention the part about adding to the deficit themselves (tax cuts).

Anyone who follows politics closely knows that the GOP's ultimate goal has always been to do away with entitlement (I hate that word) programs. Not save these programs but do away with them.

Hopefully, Trump will do as promised and not touch these programs....at least not in the way the GOP in general wants.


Considering the Senate is now 51-49, its going to be very tough for McConnell to even think about touching those. Ryan is dreaming.

In the past, they could rely on some Democratic votes for "debt" issues as they say that Medicare/Social Security run up the debt, which we know is false (just as they could rely on Democratic votes for tax cuts; Bush got 8 or 9 Senate Dems to vote for his tax cuts). Judging by the votes on Obamacare and the tax cuts, those Democratic votes aren't there anymore.

If anything, we need to be expanding social security. It really is a moral outrage how pensions were basically stolen over for the last 25 years.

Agreed that the better word would be services. These are services that are provided to our citizens.

But to think that those services aren't going to eventually be cut is not realistic. The services that we provide have outstripped our ability to pay for them. Part of that is due to baseline spending.

My question: would you rather have Trump make the inevitable cuts and take the blame or wait until it falls on the Ds?


trumps the only guy to step in that building with the guts to take it on. And That's why he will go down as GOAT. He's the guy that will make the difficult unpopular decision. not becuase its bad a bad decision...Its just unpopular because americans dont want to pay their bills when they receive services. they think everything is free!!!
like i said, its a full rebuild.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVII 

Post#146 » by stilldropin20 » Wed Dec 27, 2017 8:09 pm

Pointgod wrote:
Wizardspride wrote:A question: How do you think Trump voters will react when the GOP goes after social security/medicare? Many of his supporters depend on these programs.

You all know it's coming. The excuse will be that because the deficit is so huge there's no other alternative. Of course they won't mention the part about adding to the deficit themselves (tax cuts).

Anyone who follows politics closely knows that the GOP's ultimate goal has always been to do away with entitlement (I hate that word) programs. Not save these programs but do away with them.

Hopefully, Trump will do as promised and not touch these programs....at least not in the way the GOP in general wants.


I don't know. I've read and watched enough reporting about Trump voters to realize there's a strong cognitive dissonance. Years of right wing messaging and brain washing actually has them believing that their services won't be cut, but rather the people that don't deserve it like the blacks, poors and immigrants.

The most frustrating example is a woman that needs the Obamacare to live. She voted for Trump and when the reporter tells her that Trump said he'd get rid of Obamacare, he asks what she'll do if that happens. She says that she'll just accept death. The answer isn't to just die, you vote for the politicians that want to save and improve Obamacare. You donate or join local organizations that are making a push to save Obamacare. Jesus do everything you can to save it, your ideology isn't worth your life.

Sorry for the rant but long story short Republicans are transparent in their attempt to gut social services. it's been that way for decades. But yet the people who need these still keep handing them power.


see thats just it! Liberals are very selfish and very self serving.

This woman cares more about her country than herself. She would rather the country be well and prsoper than have obamacare.

and I would too. I love myself. I love my life. its been amazing. I have no regrets. But frankly I care more about the good of the human race and espeically the United States more than myself. I would rather die at 70 than be a financial burden for 10-20 years on the rest of the tax payers. thats my personal belief for myself. and thats how i see for everyone else.

now if i save some money and want to pay for my own healthcare? or if anyone else does? fine. But why burden your neighbors and friends??

speaking of neighbors...I'm hungry. I want steak tonight!!!! which one of you muthaphuckers is buying me my steak dinner tonight???? I'm muthaphunkin hungry biotches!!!!! Get my phunkin steak over!! STAT!!!

See how that sounds? Thats how you whiny liberals sound to me.
like i said, its a full rebuild.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVII 

Post#147 » by dckingsfan » Wed Dec 27, 2017 8:49 pm

Let's face it... Trump is rolling back Obama. Next president will roll back Trump.

Nothing to see here until one of the parties truly becomes the adult in the room.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVII 

Post#148 » by Wizardspride » Wed Dec 27, 2017 8:51 pm

stilldropin20 wrote:
Pointgod wrote:
Wizardspride wrote:A question: How do you think Trump voters will react when the GOP goes after social security/medicare? Many of his supporters depend on these programs.

You all know it's coming. The excuse will be that because the deficit is so huge there's no other alternative. Of course they won't mention the part about adding to the deficit themselves (tax cuts).

Anyone who follows politics closely knows that the GOP's ultimate goal has always been to do away with entitlement (I hate that word) programs. Not save these programs but do away with them.

Hopefully, Trump will do as promised and not touch these programs....at least not in the way the GOP in general wants.


I don't know. I've read and watched enough reporting about Trump voters to realize there's a strong cognitive dissonance. Years of right wing messaging and brain washing actually has them believing that their services won't be cut, but rather the people that don't deserve it like the blacks, poors and immigrants.
So you're fine with doing away with social security etc and think most Trump voters are fine with it too.


The most frustrating example is a woman that needs the Obamacare to live. She voted for Trump and when the reporter tells her that Trump said he'd get rid of Obamacare, he asks what she'll do if that happens. She says that she'll just accept death. The answer isn't to just die, you vote for the politicians that want to save and improve Obamacare. You donate or join local organizations that are making a push to save Obamacare. Jesus do everything you can to save it, your ideology isn't worth your life.

Sorry for the rant but long story short Republicans are transparent in their attempt to gut social services. it's been that way for decades. But yet the people who need these still keep handing them power.





see thats just it! Liberals are very selfish and very self serving.

This woman cares more about her country than herself. She would rather the country be well and prsoper than have obamacare.

and I would too. I love myself. I love my life. its been amazing. I have no regrets. But frankly I care more about the good of the human race and espeically the United States more than myself. I would rather die at 70 than be a financial burden for 10-20 years on the rest of the tax payers. thats my personal belief for myself. and thats how i see for everyone else.

now if i save some money and want to pay for my own healthcare? or if anyone else does? fine. But why burden your neighbors and friends??

speaking of neighbors...I'm hungry. I want steak tonight!!!! which one of you muthaphuckers is buying me my steak dinner tonight???? I'm muthaphunkin hungry biotches!!!!! Get my phunkin steak over!! STAT!!!

See how that sounds? Thats how you whiny liberals sound to me.

Ok, Now that you got that off your chest, how do you think Trump voters (in general) will react if the GOP goes after those programs?

And I'm not talking about just cutting these benefits. I'm talking about ending them all together..which has always been the goal of the GOP.

President Donald Trump referred to African countries, Haiti and El Salvador as "shithole" nations during a meeting Thursday and asked why the U.S. can't have more immigrants from Norway.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVII 

Post#149 » by Pointgod » Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:59 pm

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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVII 

Post#151 » by Wizardspride » Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:49 am

stilldropin20 wrote:
Wizardspride wrote:A question: How do you think Trump voters will react when the GOP goes after social security/medicare? Many of his supporters depend on these programs.

You all know it's coming. The excuse will be that because the deficit is so huge there's no other alternative. Of course they won't mention the part about adding to the deficit themselves (tax cuts).

Anyone who follows politics closely knows that the GOP's ultimate goal has always been to do away with entitlement (I hate that word) programs. Not save these programs but do away with them.

Hopefully, Trump will do as promised and not touch these programs....at least not in the way the GOP in general wants.


i hope he takes a flame thrower to those programs. scorched earth. and instead lays out further tax incentives for corporations to hire more old people. hire more disabled people. and puts and keeps those people back to work.

My grandma worked until 82 years old(died at 92). My grandpa volunteered at church and buying groceries and delivering them to old people until the day he died 88(hit by car in italy). My mom works right now 71. My died worked 12 hours on the very day he died (76 aortic annerism-died 4 hours into surgery). I plan on working until the day i die. part of the reason my family lives so long is because we stay active. we stay off pills/meds(besides the 2 drug addicts of course).

so yeah. I Hope trump burns medicaid. medicare. social security. TO.THE.GROUND. These 3 are unsustainable. unreasonable. illogical. and foremost unhealthy.

Human beings are healthy and happy when we are active. social. and have a sense of purpose. retirement is a death sentence. It's a trap.

Burn those programs down. burn obamacare subsidies down. Then work on the costs of health care so more people can afford it. get big pharma and big corporate medicine PAC's and lobbyists out of congress. Pass laws protecting doctors so mal-practice insurance goes down.

Burn !! it !! down!!! All of it. :lol: :lol: flame thrower. scorched. muthaphunkin. earth.

OK.

Don't even know what to say anymore.

You're just a weird cat.

You want to take all the money from the bankers because you're "for the little guy" and yet you want to eliminate a program that in many cases has kept a roof over "the little guy's" head.

A program which people have paid into.....


Ya know, you stated a few weeks ago that the democrats could win you back....well, no thanks.

The more I learn about your ideology the more I've come to the conclusion that there's nothing the Dems could do to win you back because you're basically a conservative.

All I say is you chose the right party for your ideology (whatever it actually is).

President Donald Trump referred to African countries, Haiti and El Salvador as "shithole" nations during a meeting Thursday and asked why the U.S. can't have more immigrants from Norway.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVII 

Post#152 » by Wizardspride » Thu Dec 28, 2017 1:05 am

stilldropin20 wrote:
gtn130 wrote:SD20 roundly condemns everything appearing on CNN as FAKE NEWS, yet he uncritically accepts tweets from Julian Assange's [fake] twitter account as fact.

This is why it's not worth engaging with deplorable true believer types. There isn't a shred of intellectual honesty - they will believe what they want to believe no matter what the facts say or how you present them. You're playing yourself when you engage with someone who is arguing in bad faith.


ma gawd!!! do your own damn research on that particular post. Obama and the Clinton "got uber wealthy" upon leaving the white house.

and trumps net worth has gone down. His brand has taken a major hit from half of the country. Lots of people wont step foot in his hotels where prior they would often visit. He has also had to kill deals overseas due to conflict of interest.

Come on guys. What are you peddling. Your stupid effin "heros" got rich while in office or shortly after being in office. Obama 11 times richer and he just left!!!! Clintons over 1000 times wealthier. That's not a problem for you??????

yet you want to put trump's finances under a damn microscope?? The hypocrisy is blinding !!! The irony deafening!!! The audacity overwhelming!!!!

Out of curiosity, where did the majority of Obama's wealth come from?

President Donald Trump referred to African countries, Haiti and El Salvador as "shithole" nations during a meeting Thursday and asked why the U.S. can't have more immigrants from Norway.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVII 

Post#153 » by verbal8 » Thu Dec 28, 2017 4:04 am

I know prior to the presidency his book did well. Also his wife was making a pretty good living.

However despite being an ethical president with an ethical administration, I am sure the crooked uranium deal is the source of his wealth.
Wizardspride wrote:
stilldropin20 wrote:
gtn130 wrote:SD20 roundly condemns everything appearing on CNN as FAKE NEWS, yet he uncritically accepts tweets from Julian Assange's [fake] twitter account as fact.

This is why it's not worth engaging with deplorable true believer types. There isn't a shred of intellectual honesty - they will believe what they want to believe no matter what the facts say or how you present them. You're playing yourself when you engage with someone who is arguing in bad faith.


ma gawd!!! do your own damn research on that particular post. Obama and the Clinton "got uber wealthy" upon leaving the white house.

and trumps net worth has gone down. His brand has taken a major hit from half of the country. Lots of people wont step foot in his hotels where prior they would often visit. He has also had to kill deals overseas due to conflict of interest.

Come on guys. What are you peddling. Your stupid effin "heros" got rich while in office or shortly after being in office. Obama 11 times richer and he just left!!!! Clintons over 1000 times wealthier. That's not a problem for you??????

yet you want to put trump's finances under a damn microscope?? The hypocrisy is blinding !!! The irony deafening!!! The audacity overwhelming!!!!

Out of curiosity, where did the majority of Obama's wealth come from?
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVII 

Post#154 » by cammac » Thu Dec 28, 2017 4:15 am

verbal8 wrote:I know prior to the presidency his book did well. Also his wife was making a pretty good living.

However despite being an ethical president with an ethical administration, I am sure the crooked uranium deal is the source of his wealth.
Wizardspride wrote:
stilldropin20 wrote:
ma gawd!!! do your own damn research on that particular post. Obama and the Clinton "got uber wealthy" upon leaving the white house.

and trumps net worth has gone down. His brand has taken a major hit from half of the country. Lots of people wont step foot in his hotels where prior they would often visit. He has also had to kill deals overseas due to conflict of interest.

Come on guys. What are you peddling. Your stupid effin "heros" got rich while in office or shortly after being in office. Obama 11 times richer and he just left!!!! Clintons over 1000 times wealthier. That's not a problem for you??????

yet you want to put trump's finances under a damn microscope?? The hypocrisy is blinding !!! The irony deafening!!! The audacity overwhelming!!!!

Out of curiosity, where did the majority of Obama's wealth come from?

This is what Obama has made over the years and it is not his net worth! I'm quite sure he gets $50K a pop for speeches since the Presidency.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/danalexander/2017/01/20/how-barack-obama-has-made-20-million-since-arriving-in-washington/#44722f3b5bf0
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVII 

Post#155 » by cammac » Thu Dec 28, 2017 4:28 am

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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVII 

Post#156 » by cammac » Thu Dec 28, 2017 4:33 am

Deplorable, Racist,Republicans
Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker, a politician whose approval rating has been well below 50 percent the last couple of years, is facing a tough re-election in 2018, and is clearly inspired by Donald Trump’s recent race-baiting success, has taken the Willie Horton ad model to new depths.


https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/12/27/1728036/-Scott-Walker-Releases-Virulently-Racist-Food-Stamp-Ad-That-Doubles-Down-on-Going-Trump
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVII 

Post#157 » by TGW » Thu Dec 28, 2017 5:59 am



Nothing is going to happen to the RNC, Kushner, Trump Jr., or Trump himself over the Russia hysteria. Absolutely nothing.
Some random troll wrote:Not to sound negative, but this team is owned by an arrogant cheapskate, managed by a moron and coached by an idiot. Recipe for disaster.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVII 

Post#158 » by stilldropin20 » Thu Dec 28, 2017 9:44 am

dckingsfan wrote:Let's face it... Trump is rolling back Obama. Next president will roll back Trump.

Nothing to see here until one of the parties truly becomes the adult in the room.


Nikki Haley will likely be the next president. Unless Trump pushes hard for Ivanka. You will know its Ivanka if she gets a more important job in 2019 like chief of staff then possibly UN ambassador in 2021. and sec of state in 2022. Paving the way for a run in 2024. I'd put it at 99% likely that Ivanka is DJT's choice to ensure his legacy. but he'd be happy with Haley. and Ivanka might not want the job. But either would be a great first female US president.
like i said, its a full rebuild.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVII 

Post#159 » by stilldropin20 » Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:04 am

TGW wrote:


Nothing is going to happen to the RNC, Kushner, Trump Jr., or Trump himself over the Russia hysteria. Absolutely nothing.


oh dont be fooled. He knows damn well that not only is nothing going to come of it but more importantly that there is nothing there. No crimes were committed. He knows this. But PointGod doesn't care about truth or justice. He only cares about his political ideology. and spreading negative press against those that oppose his ideology including and especially outright lies. He has convinced himself that even when the lefty liberals commit serious acts of crime, even treason, that its all good and righteous because through the (myopic) liberal lense is the only way see the world. which makes him far and away one of the most dangerous people in this thread. Radical islamic terrorists think very similarly about there point of view. Point of iew? Point "God" ??? Hmmm. Shame really.

Here. I'll leave this here.
Read on Twitter


Is CNN finally coming around to some semblance of what really happened regarding russia gate? All i know is I began telling you guys about this 8 months ago. I told you that you had the wrong story. that you had been duped by a weaponized outgoing DOJ. Strzok and Mccabe will be "fall guys" when this is all said and done but this thing stunk to high heaven and went to the top. Not sure if that "top" included Obama himself but it definitely included Lynch, HRC, WJC, Wasserman, Strzok, Comey, Mccabe, Holder, Clapper, and schiff.



When CNN lets this story go for 3 minutes without interuption and pushback you know something has changed.

Dont worry pointgod, they will figure out how to spin this back around soon enough. And now you have Golfgate!! The president, who campaigned 18 hours per day, for 18 months. And works another 18 hours per day in office. and negotiates on the golf course itself on his prvate estate (likely to avoid white house leakers). who has the staock market up 35%, unemployment down to 4.1. Consumer confidence way up. 2 million new jobs. Yeah that guy! he somehow doesn't work enough!! on the day after christmas no less! Golf gate it is!! thats all they have left, i guess. lol
like i said, its a full rebuild.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVII 

Post#160 » by Wizardspride » Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:02 am

Wizardspride wrote:
stilldropin20 wrote:
gtn130 wrote:SD20 roundly condemns everything appearing on CNN as FAKE NEWS, yet he uncritically accepts tweets from Julian Assange's [fake] twitter account as fact.

This is why it's not worth engaging with deplorable true believer types. There isn't a shred of intellectual honesty - they will believe what they want to believe no matter what the facts say or how you present them. You're playing yourself when you engage with someone who is arguing in bad faith.


ma gawd!!! do your own damn research on that particular post. Obama and the Clinton "got uber wealthy" upon leaving the white house.

and trumps net worth has gone down. His brand has taken a major hit from half of the country. Lots of people wont step foot in his hotels where prior they would often visit. He has also had to kill deals overseas due to conflict of interest.

Come on guys. What are you peddling. Your stupid effin "heros" got rich while in office or shortly after being in office. Obama 11 times richer and he just left!!!! Clintons over 1000 times wealthier. That's not a problem for you??????

yet you want to put trump's finances under a damn microscope?? The hypocrisy is blinding !!! The irony deafening!!! The audacity overwhelming!!!!

Out of curiosity, where did the majority of Obama's wealth come from?

Hey sd20. Maybe you missed this post so I"'ll ask again: Where did the majority of President Obama's wealth come from?

I'll wait for your response


Thanks

President Donald Trump referred to African countries, Haiti and El Salvador as "shithole" nations during a meeting Thursday and asked why the U.S. can't have more immigrants from Norway.

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