Star Wars Episode VIII - SPOILERS

[NBA Fan 1234]

To be fair, Luke did some pretty amazing stuff in A New Hope after what, a few hours with Obi-Wan? He used the force to evade Vader in the trench and blew up the friggin death star.

Why wouldn't her connection be as strong as Luke's? Yes obviously he's had training and is a Jedi, etc, but what's stopping her from tapping into it. Also, 35 years have passed since ROTJ, I am assuming she's had SOME training with Luke, and we've seen her mental ability even in the original trilogy. I just think people had an issue with how it was literally shot.

What Luke did and what Leia did are very different. In TLJ book (art of the movie or the novelization, I forgot which one), it said Luke wanted her to be his first student but she said no because she wanted to stay in politics. So, she never trained with Luke. Even if she were as strong as Luke (which I guess is possible), she had no training...which we've talked about before and I have no interest in getting into...again.

That wouldn't require training. That would just be an instinctive usage. I don't think you need training to access the force. Just how to use it responsibly. It's like driving a car, I guess.

You don't need training to survive a direct hit to the bridge, survive in space, and pull yourself to the nearest ship. LOL, ok.

To be fair, Luke did some pretty amazing stuff in A New Hope after what, a few hours with Obi-Wan? He used the force to evade Vader in the trench and blew up the friggin death star.

Why wouldn't her connection be as strong as Luke's? Yes obviously he's had training and is a Jedi, etc, but what's stopping her from tapping into it. Also, 35 years have passed since ROTJ, I am assuming she's had SOME training with Luke, and we've seen her mental ability even in the original trilogy. I just think people had an issue with how it was literally shot.

What Luke did and what Leia did are very different. In TLJ book (art of the movie or the novelization, I forgot which one), it said Luke wanted her to be his first student but she said no because she wanted to stay in politics. So, she never trained with Luke. Even if she were as strong as Luke (which I guess is possible), she had no training...which we've talked about before and I have no interest in getting into...again.

Might be a nitpick, but just because she wasn't a formal student of his doesn't mean he didn't teach her some stuff along the way. Plus, as we've seen with Rey, sometimes you just have a natural talent. She didn't have training in the OT but we saw her use the force twice. And you WILL debate me on this...no just kidding I don't care either. It's been beaten to death.

You = Qui Gon, me = Watto.

[NBA Fan 1234]

about that Leia scene, what's so shocking about people strong with the force using abilities for the first time, isn't she as strong with the force as her brother and father? and if you are in space how much force push do you need to get your momentum to drift in one direction.

It was a direct hit to the bridge where everyone else died. If that isn't enough, she is floating in space...with no suit or anything. Also, she has a connection to the force, but it's not as strong as Lukes AND it was completely out of the blue.

It's implied the hit was just enough to knock her unconscious. you're absolutely right abut having no suit, the force shouldn't be able to protect her from surviving the rigors of space lol.

but even if she wasn't as strong with the force as anakin and luke there is no doubt in my mind her connection with the force is extremely strong and if she had practiced in the jedi ways instead of becoming a senator then she would have been a great jedi, luke even said that if he didn't come back she would be the last hope. I just like to think of that scene as a survival instinct. to me its cooler that she did it out of the blue instead of having a wise older jedi standing watching standing over her.

I mean rey used the force instinctively in the first movie. I think closing her eyes and defeating kylo ren was less believeable than Leia using force telekinesis n space which shouldn;t take that much push.

Oh, I think Rey using it out of the blue wasn't cool either but it is what it is. I simply disagree with anyone who thinks what Leia did was ok. It was a direct hit, she survived in space, and she then pulled herself to the nearest ship. If she could do that, all Jedi could, right? Survive direct hits and survive? Why didn't GL have all the Jedi in the arena survive hits from the droids? What about when they're flying and the trooper transports were hit - the Jedi died there as well. Jedi are not impervious to pain or invulnerable, let alone untrained people who have connections to the force.

Sorry, nobody will ever be able to convince me what Leia pulling a Superman is kosher.

[IllmaticHandler]

about that Leia scene, what's so shocking about people strong with the force using abilities for the first time, isn't she as strong with the force as her brother and father? and if you are in space how much force push do you need to get your momentum to drift in one direction.

Well because even her father or Luke never pulled off a feat that grand using the force the first time in the movies. I also don't think she is equal to them. Not even in the NJO was Leia their equals as a force sensitive. Her children were always strong but not her. She was not taken to great lengths to be hidden like Luke was on Tattoonie is another telling sign. Vader could not even sense she had force ability. So this suggests its not on par with her brother or Father.

In Empire she sensed Luke on Cloud City. In Jedi she knew Luke wasn't dead, "he's not, I can feel it." And in TFA, she senses immediately when Han is dead. And a lot of time has passed since ROTJ, wouldn't it be feasible Luke taught her something. Luke even mentions "that mighty Skywalker blood." Sure, we don't see her train but it's not far fetched that she could tap into something like that. Now, sure, we never saw her use the force in a physical sense, but it's not as if she's a total novice.

Also, Luke blew up the death star which is a pretty big feat. Anakin won the podrace and destroyed that ship at the end. I'm not familiar with the EU so I can't comment on that, but I think it's a valid question as to why she wouldn't also be super duper strong with the force.

My dude you wrote all of this and still have no point to me. what does her sensing Luke have to do with what I said. I did not say she did not have force ability, I said its not on par with her brother or father, and nothing you say disputes that. There is nothing in any degree of SW that says she is their equals in that dept.


Also Luke using the force to concentrate on a small target is NOWHERE near Leia using the force to survive an explosion and then survive in space and then fly. Are you serious even comparing the two?

[N Y K]

Funny how the recent drop in ticket sales coincides with an "I shouldn't have said all those things" from Hamill...

I think the movie is performing just fine. Hamill's comments or not:

"After less than two weeks in theaters, Star Wars: The Last Jedi has surpassed $800 million at the global box office. As of this writing, BoxOfficeMojo puts the movie’s worldwide grosses at more than $815 million, and some box office analysts are predicting that the latest entry into the Star Wars franchise could finish its theatrical run with as much as $1.6 billion.

When all is said and done, The Last Jedi could beat out Avatar ($760.5 million) and Titanic ($659.4) as the second-biggest domestic release of all time behind The Force Awakens‘ staggering $936.7 million domestic haul. Forbes suggests the movie could make over a billion worldwide before the year’s end, and as long as it finishes its run with more than $1.3 billion, it’ll best Beauty and the Beast to become the highest-grossing movie of 2017. That’d be quite the accomplishment for a director whose previous three films combined grossed only $186 million. Not bad, Rian Johnson. Not bad at all."

http://www.businessinsider.com/star-wars-the-last-jedi-3rd-highest-grossing-movie-of-the-year-2017-12

https://www.forbes.com/sites/robcain/2017/12/24/with-69-2nd-weekend-decline-last-jedi-drops-further-into-the-star-wars-cellar/#5a10b42f66bc

not bad, but this is not good.

[shtolky]

Well because even her father or Luke never pulled off a feat that grand using the force the first time in the movies. I also don't think she is equal to them. Not even in the NJO was Leia their equals as a force sensitive. Her children were always strong but not her. She was not taken to great lengths to be hidden like Luke was on Tattoonie is another telling sign. Vader could not even sense she had force ability. So this suggests its not on par with her brother or Father.

In Empire she sensed Luke on Cloud City. In Jedi she knew Luke wasn't dead, "he's not, I can feel it." And in TFA, she senses immediately when Han is dead. And a lot of time has passed since ROTJ, wouldn't it be feasible Luke taught her something. Luke even mentions "that mighty Skywalker blood." Sure, we don't see her train but it's not far fetched that she could tap into something like that. Now, sure, we never saw her use the force in a physical sense, but it's not as if she's a total novice.

Also, Luke blew up the death star which is a pretty big feat. Anakin won the podrace and destroyed that ship at the end. I'm not familiar with the EU so I can't comment on that, but I think it's a valid question as to why she wouldn't also be super duper strong with the force.

My dude you wrote all of this and still have not point, what does her sensing Luke have to do with what I said. I did not say she did not have force ability, I said its not on par with her brother or father, and nothing you say disputes that.


Also Luke using the force to concentrate on on small target is NOWHERE near Leia using the force to survive an explosion and then survive in space and then fly. Are you serious even comparing the two?

My point in describing her sensing Luke is that she used the force in the OT, whereas you said her first time using the force was the Mary Poppins TLJ scene. That's all. I also didn't say she is better or worse than her brother and/or father, but is it really out of the realm of possibility that someone with that bloodline has a natural ability for such things? I just don't get all the hubbub (I rarely get to use that word) about that quick little scene. Some people said it ruined the movie for them, which I find very odd.

I think what Luke did in ANH was pretty amazing considering that hours prior to that he had no knowledge of anything. We can agree to disagree. I don't think it's far fetched for her to have a survival instinct like that and pull herself to the ship, which is literally the same thing physics wise, essentially, as her pulling an object to her.

[prophet_of_rage]

That's an exaggeration considering we have this quote from Yoda in ESB.... If anything the TPM expands on this premise.

How do you use a quote from Empire Strikes Back to support something stated in the Phantom Menace which was filmed 19 years later? ESB never discussed checking blood for midichlorian counts that enabled the carrier to use the force. It went from spirituality to a viral load.


Sent from my iPad using RealGM mobile app

How do you sit there and try to sum up the TPM as just making the force a viral load that everyone carries. Also Technically it still is "spirituality", because tapping into it is the same as ESB... You have to go WITHIN. How blind are you to miss that Yoda said the force is IN EVERYONE and EVERYTHING, which the Phantom menace expounds on . Also not everyone Midiclorain count is high enough to access it, which again proves not everyone can wield the force.

A Force-sensitive, also known as a Forceful, was a being who was highly attuned to the flow of the Force. Force-sensitives could, with training, learn to sense and manipulate the Force. Force sensitives who gained powers and abilities through the Force became Force Adepts.

The Jedi Order took Force-sensitive children at a very young age (typically until the age of three, but preferably earlier) to start training them to become Jedi. A notable exception to this was Anakin Skywalker, who was accepted for Jedi training when he was just under 10 years old, which would ultimately prove to be the downfall of the Jedi.

A midi-chlorian count through special testing could determine how strong one was in the Force.

One of the most spiritual Jedi of the series in the movie which is Jinn(its the only way he was able to obtain the skill to become a force Ghost) He treats the force no different than Yoda Does in ESB, he does not change anything about it in Nature. You sound real crazy saying thats all the TPM does.

Because in the ESB the Force was explained in mystic terms. It was essentially God to put in Judeo-Christian terms and really mirrors Native American spirituality in that everything is connected. TPM established that you can't just feel the Force to become one with it. You have to have a certain amount of midichlorians which means that it isn't a matter of spirituality but genetic advantage. So the Force is not universal anymore but particular. Just like not everyone can grow to be seven feet tall, but everybody with training can shoot a lay up. The Force went from being a lay up to a 360 dunk. That was a terrible part of the prequels. Fans hated it back then, too.

[shtolky]

Funny how the recent drop in ticket sales coincides with an "I shouldn't have said all those things" from Hamill...

I think the movie is performing just fine. Hamill's comments or not:

"After less than two weeks in theaters, Star Wars: The Last Jedi has surpassed $800 million at the global box office. As of this writing, BoxOfficeMojo puts the movie’s worldwide grosses at more than $815 million, and some box office analysts are predicting that the latest entry into the Star Wars franchise could finish its theatrical run with as much as $1.6 billion.

When all is said and done, The Last Jedi could beat out Avatar ($760.5 million) and Titanic ($659.4) as the second-biggest domestic release of all time behind The Force Awakens‘ staggering $936.7 million domestic haul. Forbes suggests the movie could make over a billion worldwide before the year’s end, and as long as it finishes its run with more than $1.3 billion, it’ll best Beauty and the Beast to become the highest-grossing movie of 2017. That’d be quite the accomplishment for a director whose previous three films combined grossed only $186 million. Not bad, Rian Johnson. Not bad at all."

http://www.businessinsider.com/star-wars-the-last-jedi-3rd-highest-grossing-movie-of-the-year-2017-12

https://www.forbes.com/sites/robcain/2017/12/24/with-69-2nd-weekend-decline-last-jedi-drops-further-into-the-star-wars-cellar/#5a10b42f66bc

not bad, but this is not good.

It's going to be the 2nd or 3rd highest grossing movie of all time. Forget the 2nd weekend drop, tons of excellent, very successful movies had massive 2nd weekend drops because they made so much the first weekend. Any way you slice it, the movie is a huge success financially. This is not even debatable.

[Fury]

Loved the movie but the leia scene was mad stupid. She became star lord out of nowhere

[IllmaticHandler]

Dont think just because they are siblings they will have the same ability.


In the NJO, Leia and Han had three children. Jacen, Jania, Anakin Solo. None of them are Equals in the force, and the Youngest of the 3 is the most powerful one. So just because Leia is Lukes brother dont mean she is his equal. SW universe has already disputed that as being the case with siblings.

[N Y K]

I think the movie is performing just fine. Hamill's comments or not:

"After less than two weeks in theaters, Star Wars: The Last Jedi has surpassed $800 million at the global box office. As of this writing, BoxOfficeMojo puts the movie’s worldwide grosses at more than $815 million, and some box office analysts are predicting that the latest entry into the Star Wars franchise could finish its theatrical run with as much as $1.6 billion.

When all is said and done, The Last Jedi could beat out Avatar ($760.5 million) and Titanic ($659.4) as the second-biggest domestic release of all time behind The Force Awakens‘ staggering $936.7 million domestic haul. Forbes suggests the movie could make over a billion worldwide before the year’s end, and as long as it finishes its run with more than $1.3 billion, it’ll best Beauty and the Beast to become the highest-grossing movie of 2017. That’d be quite the accomplishment for a director whose previous three films combined grossed only $186 million. Not bad, Rian Johnson. Not bad at all."

http://www.businessinsider.com/star-wars-the-last-jedi-3rd-highest-grossing-movie-of-the-year-2017-12

https://www.forbes.com/sites/robcain/2017/12/24/with-69-2nd-weekend-decline-last-jedi-drops-further-into-the-star-wars-cellar/#5a10b42f66bc

not bad, but this is not good.

It's going to be the 2nd or 3rd highest grossing movie of all time. Forget the 2nd weekend drop, tons of excellent, very successful movies had massive 2nd weekend drops because they made so much the first weekend. Any way you slice it, the movie is a huge success financially. This is not even debatable.

how is that a response to any of my posts? I'm ONLY talking about the drop in sales... anyway YOU slice it, a 69% drop in a week is historic and far from what anyone at Disney would have wanted.

[shtolky]

http://www.businessinsider.com/star-wars-the-last-jedi-3rd-highest-grossing-movie-of-the-year-2017-12

https://www.forbes.com/sites/robcain/2017/12/24/with-69-2nd-weekend-decline-last-jedi-drops-further-into-the-star-wars-cellar/#5a10b42f66bc

not bad, but this is not good.

It's going to be the 2nd or 3rd highest grossing movie of all time. Forget the 2nd weekend drop, tons of excellent, very successful movies had massive 2nd weekend drops because they made so much the first weekend. Any way you slice it, the movie is a huge success financially. This is not even debatable.

how is that a response to any of my posts? I'm ONLY talking about the drop in sales... anyway YOU slice it, a 69% drop in a week is historic and far from what anyone at Disney would have wanted.

You ignored what I posted in favor of showing the 2nd weekend drop as if that means anything in terms of overall grosses. What does it matter if it has a second weekend drop? Do people stop going to the movies after the 2nd weekend. If someone said to Disney before the movie was released that TLJ would be the 2nd or 3rd highest grossing movie of all time, they wouldn't give a rat's ass how they got there. "Our movie is the 2nd highest grossing movie of all time but UGH that 2nd weekend drop. What a failure." See how ridiculous that sounds?

TLJ second weekend drop isn't even in the top 150 biggest 2nd weekend drops of all time.

[IllmaticHandler]

How do you use a quote from Empire Strikes Back to support something stated in the Phantom Menace which was filmed 19 years later? ESB never discussed checking blood for midichlorian counts that enabled the carrier to use the force. It went from spirituality to a viral load.


Sent from my iPad using RealGM mobile app

How do you sit there and try to sum up the TPM as just making the force a viral load that everyone carries. Also Technically it still is "spirituality", because tapping into it is the same as ESB... You have to go WITHIN. How blind are you to miss that Yoda said the force is IN EVERYONE and EVERYTHING, which the Phantom menace expounds on . Also not everyone Midiclorain count is high enough to access it, which again proves not everyone can wield the force.

A Force-sensitive, also known as a Forceful, was a being who was highly attuned to the flow of the Force. Force-sensitives could, with training, learn to sense and manipulate the Force. Force sensitives who gained powers and abilities through the Force became Force Adepts.

The Jedi Order took Force-sensitive children at a very young age (typically until the age of three, but preferably earlier) to start training them to become Jedi. A notable exception to this was Anakin Skywalker, who was accepted for Jedi training when he was just under 10 years old, which would ultimately prove to be the downfall of the Jedi.

A midi-chlorian count through special testing could determine how strong one was in the Force.

One of the most spiritual Jedi of the series in the movie which is Jinn(its the only way he was able to obtain the skill to become a force Ghost) He treats the force no different than Yoda Does in ESB, he does not change anything about it in Nature. You sound real crazy saying thats all the TPM does.

Because in the ESB the Force was explained in mystic terms. It was essentially God to put in Judeo-Christian terms and really mirrors Native American spirituality in that everything is connected. TPM established that you can't just feel the Force to become one with it. You have to have a certain amount of midichlorians which means that it isn't a matter of spirituality but genetic advantage. So the Force is not universal anymore but particular. Just like not everyone can grow to be seven feet tall, but everybody with training can shoot a lay up. The Force went from being a lay up to a 360 dunk. That was a terrible part of the prequels. Fans hated it back then, too.

You all over the place and have no point. Earlier you are citing that GL did not get to expand on it with Leia does not mean anything, but here you are using because GL used the TPM to go deeper on to what makes your connection to force so....its being left field.


Last time I checked, there was no way in hell that the force could be explained in its entirety by Yoda in the short moments he had with Luke. Whats the point of even going into Midichlorians when it does not serve a purpose plot-wise in ESB?

Fans still were unsure of whats made peoples connection with the force so, after ESB, and he explained that in TPM. You are not making any good point about why TPM has turned the force into a viral Load that everyone carries. Funny how we can gauge mental ability by IQ Score, but in SW its foolish to have a process in which you can Gauge force sensitivity by Midichlorain count.... Just stop.

[N Y K]

It's going to be the 2nd or 3rd highest grossing movie of all time. Forget the 2nd weekend drop, tons of excellent, very successful movies had massive 2nd weekend drops because they made so much the first weekend. Any way you slice it, the movie is a huge success financially. This is not even debatable.

how is that a response to any of my posts? I'm ONLY talking about the drop in sales... anyway YOU slice it, a 69% drop in a week is historic and far from what anyone at Disney would have wanted.

You ignored what I posted in favor of showing the 2nd weekend drop as if that means anything in terms of overall grosses. What does it matter if it has a second weekend drop? Do people stop going to the movies after the 2nd weekend. If someone said to Disney before the movie was released that TLJ would be the 2nd or 3rd highest grossing movie of all time, they wouldn't give a rat's ass how they got there. "Our movie is the 2nd highest grossing movie of all time but UGH that 2nd weekend drop. What a failure." See how ridiculous that sounds?

when you engaged me in this conversation, what was my post about? how financially unsuccessful the film has been? unfortunately, the novels you have been typing in here are all off topic.

but you win.

[shtolky]

how is that a response to any of my posts? I'm ONLY talking about the drop in sales... anyway YOU slice it, a 69% drop in a week is historic and far from what anyone at Disney would have wanted.

You ignored what I posted in favor of showing the 2nd weekend drop as if that means anything in terms of overall grosses. What does it matter if it has a second weekend drop? Do people stop going to the movies after the 2nd weekend. If someone said to Disney before the movie was released that TLJ would be the 2nd or 3rd highest grossing movie of all time, they wouldn't give a rat's ass how they got there. "Our movie is the 2nd highest grossing movie of all time but UGH that 2nd weekend drop. What a failure." See how ridiculous that sounds?

when you engaged me in this conversation, what was my post about? how financially unsuccessful the film has been? unfortunately, the novels you have been typing in here are all off topic.

but you win.

[Sark]

Watch on YouTube

[Oscirus]

Funny how the recent drop in ticket sales coincides with an "I shouldn't have said all those things" from Hamill...

I think the movie is performing just fine. Hamill's comments or not:

"After less than two weeks in theaters, Star Wars: The Last Jedi has surpassed $800 million at the global box office. As of this writing, BoxOfficeMojo puts the movie’s worldwide grosses at more than $815 million, and some box office analysts are predicting that the latest entry into the Star Wars franchise could finish its theatrical run with as much as $1.6 billion.

When all is said and done, The Last Jedi could beat out Avatar ($760.5 million) and Titanic ($659.4) as the second-biggest domestic release of all time behind The Force Awakens‘ staggering $936.7 million domestic haul. Forbes suggests the movie could make over a billion worldwide before the year’s end, and as long as it finishes its run with more than $1.3 billion, it’ll best Beauty and the Beast to become the highest-grossing movie of 2017. That’d be quite the accomplishment for a director whose previous three films combined grossed only $186 million. Not bad, Rian Johnson. Not bad at all."

The franchise prints it's own money. Not that big a deal. They could make a 2 girls 1 cup video featuring rey chewie and chewbaca and still make money. Im sure they love breaking the record for second week drop off. Who cares about that 150 million dollar dropoff which is already causing them to brace for Solo to be a bomb? Im sure not disney

[prophet_of_rage]

How do you sit there and try to sum up the TPM as just making the force a viral load that everyone carries. Also Technically it still is "spirituality", because tapping into it is the same as ESB... You have to go WITHIN. How blind are you to miss that Yoda said the force is IN EVERYONE and EVERYTHING, which the Phantom menace expounds on . Also not everyone Midiclorain count is high enough to access it, which again proves not everyone can wield the force.






One of the most spiritual Jedi of the series in the movie which is Jinn(its the only way he was able to obtain the skill to become a force Ghost) He treats the force no different than Yoda Does in ESB, he does not change anything about it in Nature. You sound real crazy saying thats all the TPM does.

Because in the ESB the Force was explained in mystic terms. It was essentially God to put in Judeo-Christian terms and really mirrors Native American spirituality in that everything is connected. TPM established that you can't just feel the Force to become one with it. You have to have a certain amount of midichlorians which means that it isn't a matter of spirituality but genetic advantage. So the Force is not universal anymore but particular. Just like not everyone can grow to be seven feet tall, but everybody with training can shoot a lay up. The Force went from being a lay up to a 360 dunk. That was a terrible part of the prequels. Fans hated it back then, too.

You all over the place and have no point. Earlier you are citing that GL did not get to expand on it with Leia does not mean anything, but here you are using because GL used the TPM to go deeper on to what makes your connection to force so....its being left field.


Last time I checked, there was no way in hell that the force could be explained in its entirety by Yoda in the short moments he had with Luke. Whats the point of even going into Midichlorians when it does not serve a purpose plot-wise in ESB?

Fans still were unsure of whats made peoples connection with the force so, after ESB, and he explained that in TPM. You are not making any good point about why TPM has turned the force into a viral Load that everyone carries. Funny how we can gauge mental ability by IQ Score, but in SW its foolish to have a process in which you can Gauge force sensitivity by Midichlorain count.... Just stop.

The Force was described as an energy that binds everyone, everything ... correct? The Phantom Menace made it a microscopic life form that lives inside everybody's cells. The more you have the stronger you are in the force. That isn't spiritual. That is scientific. That's like saying the more fast twitch muscle fibres you have the faster you run. Great. But we didn't need the Force to be explained into science. It lessened it. It made it ordinary. The Force was nothing more than a virus.

As to why Yoda couldn't explain it in the ESB but Qui Gon Jinn could let's look at the actual bits from the scripts:

ANAKIN: I heard Master Yoda talking about midi-chlorians. I’ve been wondering: What are midi-chlorians?




QUI-GON: Midi-chlorians are a microscopic life-form that resides within all living cells.




ANAKIN: They live inside me?




QUI-GON: Inside your cells, yes. And we are symbionts with them.




ANAKIN: Symbionts?




QUI-GON: Life-forms living together for mutual advantage. Without the midi-chlorians, life could not exist and we would have no knowledge of the Force. They continually speak to us, telling us the will of the Force. When you learn to quiet your mind, you’ll hear them speaking to you.

6 lines of dialogue in the Phantom Menace. And here is the Empire scene jumped into the middle as Luke tries to raise an X-wing:

LUKE
(panting heavily)
I can't. It's too big.

YODA
Size matters not. Look at me.
Judge me by my size, do you?
Hm? Mmmm.

Luke shakes his head.

YODA
And well you should not. For my
ally in the Force. And a powerful
ally it is. Life creates it, makes
it grow. Its energy surrounds us
and binds us. Luminous beings
are we...
(Yoda pinches
Luke's shoulder)
... not this crude matter.
(a sweeping gesture)
You must feel the Force around you.
(gesturing)
Here, between you... me... the
tree... the rock... everywhere!
Yes, even between this land and
that ship!

LUKE
(discouraged)
You want the impossible.

Yoda couldn't have mentioned midichlorians there? He didn't because Lucas retconned them in the Phantom Menace, answering a question as to what the Force was. And making it scientific instead of the magic it was before.

Now Leia using the Force to pull herself back to the ship was retconning. It was building off statements that she had the same power as Luke. So there was some basis for it. And hearing Johnson say that he wanted it to be an instinctive and desperate use makes sense. He just didn't film it well enough.

But back to the overall point, Johnson isn't doing anything that Lucas didn't do himself. Make some ish up that didn't flow with the story told before. Luke and Leia made out! You can't tell me he intended Leia to be his sister all along. Obiwan didn't remember R2 or 3P0 after 15 years of fighting alongside them! There are worse continuity gaffes in the prequels and original trilogy than established Force-sensitive Leia using the force actively on screen.

[prophet_of_rage]

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Enjoy these videos. I think the second is an interestind debate. the first reminds me of the arguments made here.

[IllmaticHandler]

Because in the ESB the Force was explained in mystic terms. It was essentially God to put in Judeo-Christian terms and really mirrors Native American spirituality in that everything is connected. TPM established that you can't just feel the Force to become one with it. You have to have a certain amount of midichlorians which means that it isn't a matter of spirituality but genetic advantage. So the Force is not universal anymore but particular. Just like not everyone can grow to be seven feet tall, but everybody with training can shoot a lay up. The Force went from being a lay up to a 360 dunk. That was a terrible part of the prequels. Fans hated it back then, too.

You all over the place and have no point. Earlier you are citing that GL did not get to expand on it with Leia does not mean anything, but here you are using because GL used the TPM to go deeper on to what makes your connection to force so....its being left field.


Last time I checked, there was no way in hell that the force could be explained in its entirety by Yoda in the short moments he had with Luke. Whats the point of even going into Midichlorians when it does not serve a purpose plot-wise in ESB?

Fans still were unsure of whats made peoples connection with the force so, after ESB, and he explained that in TPM. You are not making any good point about why TPM has turned the force into a viral Load that everyone carries. Funny how we can gauge mental ability by IQ Score, but in SW its foolish to have a process in which you can Gauge force sensitivity by Midichlorain count.... Just stop.

The Force was described as an energy that binds everyone, everything ... correct? The Phantom Menace made it a microscopic life form that lives inside everybody's cells. The more you have the stronger you are in the force. That isn't spiritual. That is scientific. That's like saying the more fast twitch muscle fibres you have the faster you run. Great. But we didn't need the Force to be explained into science. It lessened it. It made it ordinary. The Force was nothing more than a virus.

Damn Bro. You have a HARD time with Context with these quotes. Midichlorains and the force are NOT the same thing. so you are incorrect again

"Without the midi-chlorians, life could not exist, and we would have no knowledge of the Force. They continually speak to us, telling us the will of the Force. When you learn to quiet your mind, you'll hear them speaking to you."
―Qui-Gon Jinn, to Anakin Skywalk

This statement is showing you they are separate from the force.


Midichlorains are THE MEDIUM, on how one CONNECTS to the force. They are not the actual force itself.

Midi-chlorians were intelligent[1] microscopic life-forms that served as organelles within all living cells, existing in a symbiotic relationship with the beings they inhabited[2][6] and comprising a collective consciousness among themselves.[1] Present in all life,[2] midi-chlorians were isomorphic on every planet that supported life.[6] Midi-chlorians, in fact, were necessary for life to exist. They also allowed for a connection with the pervasive energy field known as the Force;[7] in sufficient numbers, midi-chlorians could allow their symbiont organism to detect the Force, and this connection could be strengthened by quieting one's mind,[2] allowing the midi-chlorians to "speak" to their symbiont and communicate the will of the Force.[7] Counts as low as 2,000 midi-chlorians per cell provided no sensitivity to the Force;[8] an average Human had less than 2,500 per cell, while a mildly Force-sensitive being such as Nova Stihl had a count in excess of 5,000.[9] According to Sith Lord Darth Tenebrous, a being born of "pure force" might have a count of 15,000 or more, implying that most Force-sensitives did not have a count that high.[10] Jedi had especially high midi-chlorian counts, and of them Anakin Skywalker was said to have the highest ever recorded[2] at over 20,000, even higher than the powerful Jedi Master Yoda.[7] Though Skywalker later lost a good deal of his organic body, his cells continued to teem with midi-chlorians.[11]

[prophet_of_rage]

You all over the place and have no point. Earlier you are citing that GL did not get to expand on it with Leia does not mean anything, but here you are using because GL used the TPM to go deeper on to what makes your connection to force so....its being left field.


Last time I checked, there was no way in hell that the force could be explained in its entirety by Yoda in the short moments he had with Luke. Whats the point of even going into Midichlorians when it does not serve a purpose plot-wise in ESB?

Fans still were unsure of whats made peoples connection with the force so, after ESB, and he explained that in TPM. You are not making any good point about why TPM has turned the force into a viral Load that everyone carries. Funny how we can gauge mental ability by IQ Score, but in SW its foolish to have a process in which you can Gauge force sensitivity by Midichlorain count.... Just stop.

The Force was described as an energy that binds everyone, everything ... correct? The Phantom Menace made it a microscopic life form that lives inside everybody's cells. The more you have the stronger you are in the force. That isn't spiritual. That is scientific. That's like saying the more fast twitch muscle fibres you have the faster you run. Great. But we didn't need the Force to be explained into science. It lessened it. It made it ordinary. The Force was nothing more than a virus.

Damn Bro. You have a HARD time with Context with these quotes. Midichlorains and the force are NOT the same thing. so you are incorrect again

"Without the midi-chlorians, life could not exist, and we would have no knowledge of the Force. They continually speak to us, telling us the will of the Force. When you learn to quiet your mind, you'll hear them speaking to you."
―Qui-Gon Jinn, to Anakin Skywalk

This statement is showing you they are separate from the force.


Midichlorains are THE MEDIUM, on how one CONNECTS to the force. They are not the actual force itself.

Midi-chlorians were intelligent[1] microscopic life-forms that served as organelles within all living cells, existing in a symbiotic relationship with the beings they inhabited[2][6] and comprising a collective consciousness among themselves.[1] Present in all life,[2] midi-chlorians were isomorphic on every planet that supported life.[6] Midi-chlorians, in fact, were necessary for life to exist. They also allowed for a connection with the pervasive energy field known as the Force;[7] in sufficient numbers, midi-chlorians could allow their symbiont organism to detect the Force, and this connection could be strengthened by quieting one's mind,[2] allowing the midi-chlorians to "speak" to their symbiont and communicate the will of the Force.[7] Counts as low as 2,000 midi-chlorians per cell provided no sensitivity to the Force;[8] an average Human had less than 2,500 per cell, while a mildly Force-sensitive being such as Nova Stihl had a count in excess of 5,000.[9] According to Sith Lord Darth Tenebrous, a being born of "pure force" might have a count of 15,000 or more, implying that most Force-sensitives did not have a count that high.[10] Jedi had especially high midi-chlorian counts, and of them Anakin Skywalker was said to have the highest ever recorded[2] at over 20,000, even higher than the powerful Jedi Master Yoda.[7] Though Skywalker later lost a good deal of his organic body, his cells continued to teem with midi-chlorians.[11]

You understand that whether the midichlorians are the force or represent someone's ability to have force powers is irrelevant. Using midichlorians as an explanation for how people can use the force makes it mundane. It's your viral load. So, keep parsing, keep clinging to fine hairs, but you know as well as I do that midichlorians was a huge letdown in the Phantom Menace.

http://techland.time.com/2010/08/10/20000-per-cell-why-midi-chlorians-suck/