Markelle Fultz Discussion III: For Fultz and going forward (see 2017 draft thread for trade discussion)

[Eyeamok]

Crazy how much in BCs pocket Keith Pompey is. Not that he is ever breaking anything worthwhile, but these little nuggets always seem to come from him.

I don't think its BC as if I recall he also first alluded to the eventual Thad to Minny trade and broke the news about Joel's setback before the 2015 draft. So I think he has actual sources. Which is his only redeeming quality because he is one of the worst reporters I've ever encountered.

He has actual sources! I recall listening to him in an an interview on the radio a little while after Sam had left the organization. He was the most snarky and cynical reporter I have ever heard. Had nothing positive to say about the 76ers, when the interviewer would ask questions about the state of the 76ers Pompey would add even more questions and if to pile on.

I put it down to Sam not out any easy stories and making reporters actually go find stories themselves. I guess with the regime change the reigns on loose lips have been relaxed a lot more.

[JojoSlimbiid]

For what it's worth Markelle threw a right handed, full court over-the-head shot in his last Snapchat, the end is near.

Did he make it?

[Kolkmania]

For what it's worth Markelle threw a right handed, full court over-the-head shot in his last Snapchat, the end is near.

Did he make it?

Nope, but closer than his average free throw this year, so there's progress.

[Baller1234a]

Read on Twitter

My question to 76er fans is, what would fultz at this point need to accomplish for the trade to be considered a win for the 76ers? Tatum leads the league in 3pt% still at a 50% clip (attempted over 100). What kind of contributions are you looking forward to from fultz that you would consider satisfactory and worthy of trading the 3pt leader and a future lottery pick for ? Not looking for reactions, only a serious discussion.

If Tatum shoots 50% of his shots behind the three point line for his career and becomes the best shooter in the history of the NBA then it's probably fair to say that the Celtics would "win" this trade.

However the whole "winning" a trade is kind of hard because there are so many factors influencing the outcome and both teams have different needs. Fultz is drafted because of his excellent fit with Embiid and Simmons, so if he becomes the player we want him to be, the win is successful from Sixers perspective.
This means that Fultz has to become the dynamic scorer he was projected to become and probably provide some defensive versatility as a big guard with massive arms.

If Tatum pans out and the Celtics draft Ayton at 2 it's definitely a fantastic outcome for the Celtics, but that's a scenario that the Sixers knew was possible and are willing to live with. It's about the future of the Sixers, not the Celtics.

While I somewhat agree with the statement both teams can win the trade I think this specific trade is pretty different for 1 key reason

The fact that PHI and BOS will be competing for the conference for the next decade.
Now of course things can happen to change that (Embiid (god forbid) going down or Kyrie going down)
But that seems the most likely scenario for the foreseeable future (maybe the Bucks?)

So the real question is... even if you get the better fitting player if you give up more pure talent (that’s a great fit fit them in Tatum and hopefully Ayton or Bagley) to your main rival do you still “win” the trade?

And OT As for Tatum he doesn’t need to be shooting 50 percent from 3 to be this efficient(as we discussed on the Celtics board over what he showed in yesterday’s game)

[Ericb5]

The question shouldn't be who won the trade because that implies that it matters how the player you traded worked out for the other team. It is irrelevant whether the player you traded to the other team turns out great or horrible, especially in a trade for prospects that could go either way.

The more operative question is whether or not the price paid was worth it for us. We didn't trade Tatum. We traded the third pick in the draft plus a future pick that is likely to be a good pick, and we received a pick in return that we used to select a player that we preferred.

As long as Fultz turns into the player that we want him to be then the trade made sense. Once we made the deal we basically cemented the fact that we were very likely to lose the trade on points, but we had so many assets that we could afford to do that if the player we got turns out to be worth it.

Trades aren't made in a vacuum either. Remember that we have two players that are currently, or are going to be, superstars. We made the decision that Fultz was the best prospect in the draft to add to Embiid and Simmons.

If Fultz is what Colangelo thinks he is, then he is exactly what this team needs.

[Mik317]

The second the trade was made, there was zero chance the 76ers could "win" the trade. I'm hoping he can at least make it to the level of J'rue Holiday, just so it isn't an unmitigated disaster of a trade. But even then, if Boston gets Ayton or another talented big, to go along with Tatum (who many of us thought was Danny Granger level pre-draft) then Boston wins the trade big, even if Fultz becomes a decent player.

Colangelo made that deal for a "fit" as if the 76ers aren't competing with the Celtics to get to the championship. Its one thing to make a deal that makes your team better, but its another to make the competitor (you are trading with) 2x better than you made yourself. Danny Ainge understands that. Colangelo doesn't.

whoa whoa whoaaaa.

The same Tatum you said that was a waste of a pick? I remember you near exact wording being "I'd be more upset if Boston didn't waste their pick on Tatum...".

I also think we gave up too much but come on man... the fact that Tatum has been better than anyone expected perhaps shows that you don't know as much as you claim? but nope of course, you always knew right?

My issue is that you don't even give Fultz a chance to prove you wrong. Lonzo played like **** but it was always "its still too early". Same w/ Jackson. And w/ Lonzo that is proving to be correct. So why doesn't Fultz even get that same chance? I think your boner to prove people wrong clouds you and makes your posts seem so spiteful and smug....I don't even disagree w/ you but geez man.

[agiaco]

The second the trade was made, there was zero chance the 76ers could "win" the trade. I'm hoping he can at least make it to the level of J'rue Holiday, just so it isn't an unmitigated disaster of a trade. But even then, if Boston gets Ayton or another talented big, to go along with Tatum (who many of us thought was Danny Granger level pre-draft) then Boston wins the trade big, even if Fultz becomes a decent player.

Colangelo made that deal for a "fit" as if the 76ers aren't competing with the Celtics to get to the championship. Its one thing to make a deal that makes your team better, but its another to make the competitor (you are trading with) 2x better than you made yourself. Danny Ainge understands that. Colangelo doesn't.

whoa whoa whoaaaa.

The same Tatum you said that was a waste of a pick? I remember you near exact wording being "I'd be more upset if Boston didn't waste their pick on Tatum...".

I also think we gave up too much but come on man... the fact that Tatum has been better than anyone expected perhaps shows that you don't know as much as you claim? but nope of course, you always knew right?

My issue is that you don't even give Fultz a chance to prove you wrong. Lonzo played like **** but it was always "its still too early". Same w/ Jackson. And w/ Lonzo that is proving to be correct. So why doesn't Fultz even get that same chance? I think your boner to prove people wrong clouds you and makes your posts seem so spiteful and smug....I don't even disagree w/ you but geez man.

Definitely remember him saying that about Tatum as well, considering LF had a lot of hype for Josh Jackson going into the draft. The irony of not giving Fultz any leeway with barely a handful of NBA games under his belt is silly. Even those who were a fan of Tatum have to be surprised with his early success.

[Kolkmania]

Read on Twitter

My question to 76er fans is, what would fultz at this point need to accomplish for the trade to be considered a win for the 76ers? Tatum leads the league in 3pt% still at a 50% clip (attempted over 100). What kind of contributions are you looking forward to from fultz that you would consider satisfactory and worthy of trading the 3pt leader and a future lottery pick for ? Not looking for reactions, only a serious discussion.

If Tatum shoots 50% of his shots behind the three point line for his career and becomes the best shooter in the history of the NBA then it's probably fair to say that the Celtics would "win" this trade.

However the whole "winning" a trade is kind of hard because there are so many factors influencing the outcome and both teams have different needs. Fultz is drafted because of his excellent fit with Embiid and Simmons, so if he becomes the player we want him to be, the win is successful from Sixers perspective.
This means that Fultz has to become the dynamic scorer he was projected to become and probably provide some defensive versatility as a big guard with massive arms.

If Tatum pans out and the Celtics draft Ayton at 2 it's definitely a fantastic outcome for the Celtics, but that's a scenario that the Sixers knew was possible and are willing to live with. It's about the future of the Sixers, not the Celtics.

While I somewhat agree with the statement both teams can win the trade I think this specific trade is pretty different for 1 key reason

The fact that PHI and BOS will be competing for the conference for the next decade.
Now of course things can happen to change that (Embiid (god forbid) going down or Kyrie going down)
But that seems the most likely scenario for the foreseeable future (maybe the Bucks?)

So the real question is... even if you get the better fitting player if you give up more pure talent (that’s a great fit fit them in Tatum and hopefully Ayton or Bagley) to your main rival do you still “win” the trade?

And OT As for Tatum he doesn’t need to be shooting 50 percent from 3 to be this efficient(as we discussed on the Celtics board over what he showed in yesterday’s game)

Well can't this thinking be reversed as well? If Boston thinks that Philly could be the main treat in the upcoming years then why give us the opportunity to draft the theoretically perfect complementary piece?

[dbodner]

The second the trade was made, there was zero chance the 76ers could "win" the trade. I'm hoping he can at least make it to the level of J'rue Holiday, just so it isn't an unmitigated disaster of a trade. But even then, if Boston gets Ayton or another talented big, to go along with Tatum (who many of us thought was Danny Granger level pre-draft) then Boston wins the trade big, even if Fultz becomes a decent player.

Colangelo made that deal for a "fit" as if the 76ers aren't competing with the Celtics to get to the championship. Its one thing to make a deal that makes your team better, but its another to make the competitor (you are trading with) 2x better than you made yourself. Danny Ainge understands that. Colangelo doesn't.

whoa whoa whoaaaa.

The same Tatum you said that was a waste of a pick? I remember you near exact wording being "I'd be more upset if Boston didn't waste their pick on Tatum...".

Hah. It seems Lloyd is better at calling others stupid and lazy than he is at holding himself accountable.

From June 3rd on who to take if the Sixers fell to 6:

If the dooms day scenario had played out and the 76ers only came away from the lottery with #6, this would be a very tough decision. Monk is a bit of a reach here, but Tatum and Fox aren't special and won't move the needle much. I'd probably hold my nose and take Monk here, if the Draft played out this way.

On May 28th, Lloyd had Josh Jackson #2 and Jayson Tatum #7.

Here's Lloyd on Tatum on June 13th.

I like players who can "boogie" on a defender and his. But the college game is a totally different sport. If you don't have that burst to beat a superior athlete, that "boogie" goes away in the pros. If he can't get around or over his defender in the pros, that "Boogie" don't mean nothin'.

[Mrcrockpots]

The second the trade was made, there was zero chance the 76ers could "win" the trade. I'm hoping he can at least make it to the level of J'rue Holiday, just so it isn't an unmitigated disaster of a trade. But even then, if Boston gets Ayton or another talented big, to go along with Tatum (who many of us thought was Danny Granger level pre-draft) then Boston wins the trade big, even if Fultz becomes a decent player.

Colangelo made that deal for a "fit" as if the 76ers aren't competing with the Celtics to get to the championship. Its one thing to make a deal that makes your team better, but its another to make the competitor (you are trading with) 2x better than you made yourself. Danny Ainge understands that. Colangelo doesn't.

whoa whoa whoaaaa.

The same Tatum you said that was a waste of a pick? I remember you near exact wording being "I'd be more upset if Boston didn't waste their pick on Tatum...".

Hah. It seems Lloyd is better at calling others stupid and lazy than he is at holding himself accountable.

From June 3rd on who to take if the Sixers fell to 6:

If the dooms day scenario had played out and the 76ers only came away from the lottery with #6, this would be a very tough decision. Monk is a bit of a reach here, but Tatum and Fox aren't special and won't move the needle much. I'd probably hold my nose and take Monk here, if the Draft played out this way.

On May 28th, Lloyd had Josh Jackson #2 and Jayson Tatum #7.

Here's Lloyd on Tatum on June 13th.

I like players who can "boogie" on a defender and his. But the college game is a totally different sport. If you don't have that burst to beat a superior athlete, that "boogie" goes away in the pros. If he can't get around or over his defender in the pros, that "Boogie" don't mean nothin'.

lol

[phiphan]

We need to have a pre-draft thread every season where people post at least their top 15. Would instill a good dose of humility on this board.

[eagereyez]

Is Fultz shooting jumpers yet?

[James40]

Crazy how much in BCs pocket Keith Pompey is. Not that he is ever breaking anything worthwhile, but these little nuggets always seem to come from him.

Pompey is terrible, team hasn't had a good writer on the beat since Kate Fagan.

Bodner was my go-to until he hid behind a pay wall

Not cool, I’m no ones favorite by far, but Bodner has taken time to respond to questions I’ve had about the 76ers when he didn’t have too. My questions generally have been negative as most of my comments were towards the 76ers when Hinkie was here. From what I’ve seen, he’s a stand up dude.

[sixers hoops]

We need to have a pre-draft thread every season where people post at least their top 15. Would instill a good dose of humility on this board.

We’ve had that many times. Lloyd posts a big board every draft either here or on draft board. And Derek has posted his for years here and on liberty ballers.

I think it would be great for credibility if we actually bookmark those threads for easy access. However, they did exist for most drafts on this board.

[sixers hoops]

Crazy how much in BCs pocket Keith Pompey is. Not that he is ever breaking anything worthwhile, but these little nuggets always seem to come from him.

Pompey is terrible, team hasn't had a good writer on the beat since Kate Fagan.

Bodner was my go-to until he hid behind a pay wall

Not cool, I’m no ones favorite by far, but Bodner has taken time to respond to questions I’ve had about the 76ers when he didn’t have too. My questions generally have been negative as most of my comments were towards the 76ers when Hinkie was here. From what I’ve seen, he’s a stand up dude.

Derek obviously puts in A LOT of hours. That really wouldn’t be possible if he had to work a full-time job to make money to support his family. Also, I think anybody who has a skill people are willing to pay for, should seek compensation. So I don’t know that he is “hiding” behind a paywall. I think he is just getting paid for his hours of hard work, since he clearly has a product people are willing to pay for.

[LloydFree]

The second the trade was made, there was zero chance the 76ers could "win" the trade. I'm hoping he can at least make it to the level of J'rue Holiday, just so it isn't an unmitigated disaster of a trade. But even then, if Boston gets Ayton or another talented big, to go along with Tatum (who many of us thought was Danny Granger level pre-draft) then Boston wins the trade big, even if Fultz becomes a decent player.

Colangelo made that deal for a "fit" as if the 76ers aren't competing with the Celtics to get to the championship. Its one thing to make a deal that makes your team better, but its another to make the competitor (you are trading with) 2x better than you made yourself. Danny Ainge understands that. Colangelo doesn't.

whoa whoa whoaaaa.

The same Tatum you said that was a waste of a pick? I remember you near exact wording being "I'd be more upset if Boston didn't waste their pick on Tatum...".

I also think we gave up too much but come on man... the fact that Tatum has been better than anyone expected perhaps shows that you don't know as much as you claim? but nope of course, you always knew right?

My issue is that you don't even give Fultz a chance to prove you wrong. Lonzo played like **** but it was always "its still too early". Same w/ Jackson. And w/ Lonzo that is proving to be correct. So why doesn't Fultz even get that same chance? I think your boner to prove people wrong clouds you and makes your posts seem so spiteful and smug....I don't even disagree w/ you but geez man.

I didn't like Tatum anymore than Fultz. I had them #5 and #6. I don't have any problem saying it, because I posted and updated my board all year in the draft thread. I liked Jackson better than Tatum and thought Boston should have taken Jackson, because I thought he had more athletic upside. That doesn't mean that I didnt say I thought Tatum was a Danny Granger. Its in the draft threads. I wouldn't trade two top 5 lottery picks for Danny Granger either. He wasn't that kind of player and Tatum isn't that kind of player. I haven't contradicted anything.

As far as Ball is concerned, he's about what I expected. His season is the same as Kidd's rookie season, numbers wise. I don't expect any one-and-done rookie to look great in year one. I'm not giving Ball or Jackson any breaks that I'm withholding from Fultz. I just haven't changed my mind on what I think of the prospects except that I underestimated Mitchell and Markennen by a lot. Nobody else has done anything this year that they didn't show in college last year.

[LongLiveHinkie]

The second the trade was made, there was zero chance the 76ers could "win" the trade. I'm hoping he can at least make it to the level of J'rue Holiday, just so it isn't an unmitigated disaster of a trade. But even then, if Boston gets Ayton or another talented big, to go along with Tatum (who many of us thought was Danny Granger level pre-draft) then Boston wins the trade big, even if Fultz becomes a decent player.

Colangelo made that deal for a "fit" as if the 76ers aren't competing with the Celtics to get to the championship. Its one thing to make a deal that makes your team better, but its another to make the competitor (you are trading with) 2x better than you made yourself. Danny Ainge understands that. Colangelo doesn't.

whoa whoa whoaaaa.

The same Tatum you said that was a waste of a pick? I remember you near exact wording being "I'd be more upset if Boston didn't waste their pick on Tatum...".

I also think we gave up too much but come on man... the fact that Tatum has been better than anyone expected perhaps shows that you don't know as much as you claim? but nope of course, you always knew right?

My issue is that you don't even give Fultz a chance to prove you wrong. Lonzo played like **** but it was always "its still too early". Same w/ Jackson. And w/ Lonzo that is proving to be correct. So why doesn't Fultz even get that same chance? I think your boner to prove people wrong clouds you and makes your posts seem so spiteful and smug....I don't even disagree w/ you but geez man.

That moment when you thought was a universal message board truth and you find out some people are just discovering it for the first time.

[James40]

We need to have a pre-draft thread every season where people post at least their top 15. Would instill a good dose of humility on this board.

If it counts I hated the Jrue trade, wanted Smart or Gordon over Embiid ( since Wiggins was gone, I really wanted him), wanted KJ McDaniels, Okafor was a sure thing and Simmons.

This year I was too busy to care, and since they had a top 3 in a draft that I’ve been told here was going to be a great draft, I didn’t see how they could screw it up, which they haven’t yet. Till we see Fultz actually play.

I did not want Ball, at all. Mark my words, he’ll be the first PG in the history of the NBA to need a Tommy John surgery on his right elbow.

[LloydFree]

The second the trade was made, there was zero chance the 76ers could "win" the trade. I'm hoping he can at least make it to the level of J'rue Holiday, just so it isn't an unmitigated disaster of a trade. But even then, if Boston gets Ayton or another talented big, to go along with Tatum (who many of us thought was Danny Granger level pre-draft) then Boston wins the trade big, even if Fultz becomes a decent player.

Colangelo made that deal for a "fit" as if the 76ers aren't competing with the Celtics to get to the championship. Its one thing to make a deal that makes your team better, but its another to make the competitor (you are trading with) 2x better than you made yourself. Danny Ainge understands that. Colangelo doesn't.

whoa whoa whoaaaa.

The same Tatum you said that was a waste of a pick? I remember you near exact wording being "I'd be more upset if Boston didn't waste their pick on Tatum...".

Hah. It seems Lloyd is better at calling others stupid and lazy than he is at holding himself accountable.

From June 3rd on who to take if the Sixers fell to 6:

If the dooms day scenario had played out and the 76ers only came away from the lottery with #6, this would be a very tough decision. Monk is a bit of a reach here, but Tatum and Fox aren't special and won't move the needle much. I'd probably hold my nose and take Monk here, if the Draft played out this way.

On May 28th, Lloyd had Josh Jackson #2 and Jayson Tatum #7.

Here's Lloyd on Tatum on June 13th.

I like players who can "boogie" on a defender and his. But the college game is a totally different sport. If you don't have that burst to beat a superior athlete, that "boogie" goes away in the pros. If he can't get around or over his defender in the pros, that "Boogie" don't mean nothin'.

I post in the draft thread all year. All of this is there, and everybody has already seen it. This isn't new. Had arguments all year, about it, that's why your flock does daily updates in every thread on Lonzo Ball and Josh Jackson's bad games. It makes them feel good. You're not posting anything that everybody doesn't already know.
My take on Jackson over Tatum isn't any worse than your Okafor over Porzingis or your Markelle Fultz as sure thing #1.

[LongLiveHinkie]

The second the trade was made, there was zero chance the 76ers could "win" the trade. I'm hoping he can at least make it to the level of J'rue Holiday, just so it isn't an unmitigated disaster of a trade. But even then, if Boston gets Ayton or another talented big, to go along with Tatum (who many of us thought was Danny Granger level pre-draft) then Boston wins the trade big, even if Fultz becomes a decent player.

Colangelo made that deal for a "fit" as if the 76ers aren't competing with the Celtics to get to the championship. Its one thing to make a deal that makes your team better, but its another to make the competitor (you are trading with) 2x better than you made yourself. Danny Ainge understands that. Colangelo doesn't.

whoa whoa whoaaaa.

The same Tatum you said that was a waste of a pick? I remember you near exact wording being "I'd be more upset if Boston didn't waste their pick on Tatum...".

Hah. It seems Lloyd is better at calling others stupid and lazy than he is at holding himself accountable.

From June 3rd on who to take if the Sixers fell to 6:

If the dooms day scenario had played out and the 76ers only came away from the lottery with #6, this would be a very tough decision. Monk is a bit of a reach here, but Tatum and Fox aren't special and won't move the needle much. I'd probably hold my nose and take Monk here, if the Draft played out this way.

On May 28th, Lloyd had Josh Jackson #2 and Jayson Tatum #7.

Here's Lloyd on Tatum on June 13th.

I like players who can "boogie" on a defender and his. But the college game is a totally different sport. If you don't have that burst to beat a superior athlete, that "boogie" goes away in the pros. If he can't get around or over his defender in the pros, that "Boogie" don't mean nothin'.

Takes so cold, the Night King needs a winter coat.