dhsilv2 wrote:Well Elton Brand I think opens the door here a bit as he's not getting any consideration. Despite some discussion neither is Marion (who I have over Bosh and firmly). No discussion of Boozer (08).
I'm not suggesting Elton Brand
should be getting consideration (and I'm certainly not advocating Carlos Boozer). Marion did get at least a secondary vote recently, fwiw. Anyway, I'm merely pointing out the competition he's had to get All-NBA honors.
Let's look at it this way (sort of equating each individual Bosh contended with to an individual Greer contended with):
Hal Greer's biggest competition for honors [obviously] were Robertson and West. Let's say that's roughly equivalent to the Dirk/KG duo that Bosh was facing the vast majority of his prime.
Greer's next biggest competition was Sam Jones (shall we say that's roughly equivalent to Paul Pierce? that's a bit of a stretch, but let's run with it).
Lenny Wilkens we can perhaps equate to Carmelo Anthony???
Richie Guerin had like one big outlier peak, and 2-3 other pretty good seasons (though at least one was before Greer was in his prime anyway). Let's say he's roughly equivalent of what Shawn Marion was to Bosh.
Bob Cousy was either post-prime or tail-end of his prime by the time Greer was coming into his prime. Cousy ~= Carlos Boozer, as far as competition for All-NBA honors?? (that's being generous, imo, given their primes don't actually overlap).
And that was more or less it for relevant competition Greer had for those spots (Guy Rodgers being historically overrated in my estimation: looking at his rate metrics and the consistent record of poor team offenses......he seems kinda like Rajon Rondo, but without the defensive benefit; he's certainly no bigger competition than the version of Peja Stojakovic we saw during Bosh's prime....I'd not even mention Peja as
serious/actual competition for All-NBA honors).
So Bosh had basically all of the above to compete with, PLUS his prime overlapping completely with
Lebron James and Pau Gasol and
Tim Duncan, and those few really good years of Elton Brand, and a few seasons of prime Kevin Durant, and 2-3 seasons of LaMarcus Aldridge (thanks for bringing him up, I'd forgotten him), and 1-2 years each of prime Kevin Love, Blake Griffin, and Zach Randolph (more I'd forgotten), and 1-2 seasons of prime David Lee (for what that's worth); Paul Millsap (who's likely perpetually underrated) also missed out on honors in his career, fwiw.
imo----even with consideration of a 3rd Team spot available (not around in Greer's time)----I don't think the competition was equal at all (given all the extra worthy players around to nab them, and given I was fairly generous in some of the above).
dhsilv2 wrote: He had a decent 2013 but David Lee made it, not him. Aldridge is a multiple time all nba guy, Bosh isn't.
Aldridge came into his prime about 3-4 years later, fwiw. He has
more prime overlap with guys like Durant, Love, and Griffin (though Griffin oft-injured), plus a couple years prime Draymond and AD (and a pinch more overlap with Millsap, perhaps)........but KG, Brand, Shawn Marion, and Paul Pierce have all come OUT of their primes [or very close to it] by the time Aldridge is
in his. Nowitzki would only have 3-4 prime years left during LMA's prime; and Tim Duncan would only have a few "lower end" prime years left; slightly less prime overlap with Melo's prime, too. So idk, it's pretty close, though I think
a little lesser, just for not having prime KG and relatively little of prime Dirk and Duncan to contend with.
Also, as Owly stated, I'd consider awards/honors an at least somewhat poor barometer for overall player quality (again: Melo's 6 honors being an indication).
But fwiw, I don't think LMA is far off of Bosh in player quality; it's perhaps more Bosh's small longevity edge than anything else that separates them in an all-time sense for me. LMA (not counting any of current season) could perhaps, imo, be considered a fringe top 100 player; is almost certainly a top 125-130 player, at least.
dhsilv2 wrote:I do'nt deny there was a glut of talent at the 4 during his era, but that goes back to if rules/style were good for 4's or the 4's were just strong during that era.
It's not just the 4's. Bear in mind, All-NBA honors doesn't require one SF and one PF for each team; it can be two SF's or two PF's (more recently, I think they just require three frontcourt players----from any position---given the blurring of the lines between positions these days). That's why I was also listing the Lebrons, Durants, Pierces, etc of the game.
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