Lebron vs Kobe vs MJ - NBA Clutch Stats

[Ainosterhaspie]

@bledredwine. Really most of the pros can hit shots like that and LeBron is no exception. You obviously know about the Orlando buzzer beater which was a higher degree of difficulty than Jordan over ehlo. LeBron's buzzer beater against Washington last year was a high degree of difficulty shot, catching an almost full court inbound pass with a defender on him and his back to the basket, turning jumping, fading and launching a made three. The difference between him and Kobe there is not that he can't, make them, but chooses not to.

And again he often doesn't have to make shots that are as difficult as Kobe had to make because defenses have to account for his willingness to pass. They can't just sell out to try to stop his shot or make it really difficult like they could with Kobe. It's not a plus that a guy occasionally makes ridiculously difficult shots when if he would pass a few of those, defenses would soften, and he would have easier shots to make generally. Then he would probably make more since they are easier.

I mentioned something along those lines with either earlier in this thread or a different one. His game winning layup against the Pacers in '13 was such an easy shot that people don't give him clutch credit. Why was it easy? Pacers couldn't double because he might pass. They couldn't keep their rim protector on the floor because he might pass. His "not being clutch" in previous games paid dividends in that game making it easier to win. Then in the finals, the same thing happened again. Duncan wasn't in the floor because they had to protect against LeBron passing on the perimeter, so Bosh got the rebound, so Allen could "save LeBron's legacy". LeBron warped the defense to make things easier for his team and it lead to a title. There isn't a memorable double team contested fadeaway three. LeBron didn't have to do that to win because he played the game the right way and got the odds to favor him.

[Baski]

That's true. But unlike Lebron, Kobe had a chance of hitting those wild shots. Wild shots were a part of his game.

I think it's not a fair comment to say that Kobe had a chance of hitting those shots and LeBron doesn't. It's pretty widely accepted that Kobe was one of the greatest "tough shot makers" of all time, and that's why he's able to hit a small number of those wild shots we're talking about. My issue is with claiming he can create whatever shot he wants when the shot is almost always some contested fadeaway, which is basically shot creation 101. The fact that LeBron refuses to take such a dumb shot, which would be even dumber for him because his jumper is shaky enough as it is, does not put Kobe above him in terms of shot creation in the clutch. He'd much rather create actual space, like he's been doing this season, and it shows in his FG% in the 4th.

Lebron cannot create like that because with the exception of his Orlando shot, he doesn't have the ability to drift/fade and shoot like Kobe or Jordan. For example, I don't see Lebron hitting Jordan's sideways Cavs shot on ehlo, but Kobe would have a solid chance.

No i don't think LeBron would've been able to make the exact same shot, but neither would Kobe honestly. That shot was a result one of the most level-headed 3 second sequences I've ever seen in my life. You could see that Ehlo and Nance were ready to hard double him and thus force him to take a really bad shot, but he gets that little push on Nance to get him off balance and runs to receive the pass, forcing Ehlo to give chase and get blown by as a result, unable to recover. And even as they both jumped at the same time, he somehow fell back to the court like a full minute before MJ, giving him enough time to hit that shot. This is what i believe is actual shot creation in the dying moments. He was able to turn an imminent double into a barely contested midrange pullup, in just over 3 seconds. That's about as good as it gets. Put Kobe in that same situation and i bet my left nut that he takes that shot from 27 feet with 2 hands in his face. I say this because I've seen him do the exact same thing ( a RS game against the Blazers. Or maybe it was the raptors i forget). Now he just might make it, because he's Kobe, but that doesn't say anything about his skills or shot creation abilities in the clutch. Just that he can make a few tough ones if he takes a **** of them.
Now keep in mind, i know Kobe's skill is at a high level, and he showed this throughout his career, but when the clock started winding down, you just knew that all you had to do was get a hand in his face and pray he missed.

And it's funny you bring up LeBron's Orlando shot as some kind of example of him creating a shot. Is it because he faded while taking it? All he did was catch the ball and shoot it. Is that really anything that should impress you, having watched Jordan play? If you consider that an exception to the "LeBron can't create" rule, then your standard for shot creation is much much lower than mine, and Kobe is definitely not a better creator than LeBron in the clutch.

Kobe has how many 50 point games? Lebron fans always claim "volume shooting", but they have no idea how difficult it is to create shots that you can make. Kobe WAS a more skilled and crafty scorer, with a post game as well. Can we admit that? There's reason for the high scoring games, for Wade stating that Kobe was the player of their era, not Lebron. Strictly in terms of scoring, Lebron's rarely been the best in the league and Kobe really is the closest thing we've seen to Jordan. It does mean he's endowed with better creation abilities at all times, clutch included. He has a way better midrange game and wild 3 ball. I'd like to reiterate that I couldn't stand Kobe's game, like AI's.... partially because Kobe fans did what Lebron fans are doing now and it was annoying, but also because his game was selfish and he made some dumb moves. But I respect greatness and it's not being objective to not acknowledge at least his incredible ability to create shots in basically any situation.

I can't believe you've watched LeBron his whole career and conclude that he couldn't rack up 50pt games, at a 44-46% FG% if he wanted. You give LeBron a triangle-like system and ask him to just focus on scoring like Kobe did in his pre Gasol-Post Shaq days, and 2 scoring titles would be a given for him. Ever notice that Kobe's, and even MJ's best scoring years coincided with their worst years team success wise? Come to think of it, it's pretty much the case for a lot of ATGs. That's just suboptimal team ball. I mean Westbrook just won 2 of those titles in 3 years and his team went nowhere both times. Sure you can talk about "they were young" or "their team sucked" but you cant deny that as they evolved as players their scoring dropped and the team became better for it.

And sure LeBron has rarely been the best scorer in the league, but he's been at or near the top every single season. What's that got to do with anything? Kyrie has never been the best scorer in the league either but look at his reputation.

Just clarifying again that Kobe was a phenomenal shot creator over his career, it's just that his "clutch time" shots didn't scream "omg how skilled". It was either a facepalm or "Damn Kobe can make some crazy shots".

Was there nothing that Kobe was better than Lebron at, in your opinion?

Absolutely. Kobe was a better overall pure shooter than LeBron (FTs included), and a better post scorer, making him a more versatile scorer, but at the end of the day, I'm not sure i could put him definitely above LeBron as a scorer, because scoring is all about buckets, which LeBron has shown he can get, while being a pass-first player. He might not look as pretty as Kobe when he's doing it, but he does it really really well.

[bledredwine]

I think it's not a fair comment to say that Kobe had a chance of hitting those shots and LeBron doesn't. It's pretty widely accepted that Kobe was one of the greatest "tough shot makers" of all time, and that's why he's able to hit a small number of those wild shots we're talking about. My issue is with claiming he can create whatever shot he wants when the shot is almost always some contested fadeaway, which is basically shot creation 101. The fact that LeBron refuses to take such a dumb shot, which would be even dumber for him because his jumper is shaky enough as it is, does not put Kobe above him in terms of shot creation in the clutch. He'd much rather create actual space, like he's been doing this season, and it shows in his FG% in the 4th.

Lebron cannot create like that because with the exception of his Orlando shot, he doesn't have the ability to drift/fade and shoot like Kobe or Jordan. For example, I don't see Lebron hitting Jordan's sideways Cavs shot on ehlo, but Kobe would have a solid chance.

No i don't think LeBron would've been able to make the exact same shot, but neither would Kobe honestly. That shot was a result one of the most level-headed 3 second sequences I've ever seen in my life. You could see that Ehlo and Nance were ready to hard double him and thus force him to take a really bad shot, but he gets that little push on Nance to get him off balance and runs to receive the pass, forcing Ehlo to give chase and get blown by as a result, unable to recover. And even as they both jumped at the same time, he somehow fell back to the court like a full minute before MJ, giving him enough time to hit that shot. This is what i believe is actual shot creation in the dying moments. He was able to turn an imminent double into a barely contested midrange pullup, in just over 3 seconds. That's about as good as it gets. Put Kobe in that same situation and i bet my left nut that he takes that shot from 27 feet with 2 hands in his face. I say this because I've seen him do the exact same thing ( a RS game against the Blazers. Or maybe it was the raptors i forget). Now he just might make it, because he's Kobe, but that doesn't say anything about his skills or shot creation abilities in the clutch. Just that he can make a few tough ones if he takes a **** of them.
Now keep in mind, i know Kobe's skill is at a high level, and he showed this throughout his career, but when the clock started winding down, you just knew that all you had to do was get a hand in his face and pray he missed.

And it's funny you bring up LeBron's Orlando shot as some kind of example of him creating a shot. Is it because he faded while taking it? All he did was catch the ball and shoot it. Is that really anything that should impress you, having watched Jordan play? If you consider that an exception to the "LeBron can't create" rule, then your standard for shot creation is much much lower than mine, and Kobe is definitely not a better creator than LeBron in the clutch.

Kobe has how many 50 point games? Lebron fans always claim "volume shooting", but they have no idea how difficult it is to create shots that you can make. Kobe WAS a more skilled and crafty scorer, with a post game as well. Can we admit that? There's reason for the high scoring games, for Wade stating that Kobe was the player of their era, not Lebron. Strictly in terms of scoring, Lebron's rarely been the best in the league and Kobe really is the closest thing we've seen to Jordan. It does mean he's endowed with better creation abilities at all times, clutch included. He has a way better midrange game and wild 3 ball. I'd like to reiterate that I couldn't stand Kobe's game, like AI's.... partially because Kobe fans did what Lebron fans are doing now and it was annoying, but also because his game was selfish and he made some dumb moves. But I respect greatness and it's not being objective to not acknowledge at least his incredible ability to create shots in basically any situation.

I can't believe you've watched LeBron his whole career and conclude that he couldn't rack up 50pt games, at a 44-46% FG% if he wanted. You give LeBron a triangle-like system and ask him to just focus on scoring like Kobe did in his pre Gasol-Post Shaq days, and 2 scoring titles would be a given for him. Ever notice that Kobe's, and even MJ's best scoring years coincided with their worst years team success wise? Come to think of it, it's pretty much the case for a lot of ATGs. That's just suboptimal team ball. I mean Westbrook just won 2 of those titles in 3 years and his team went nowhere both times. Sure you can talk about "they were young" or "their team sucked" but you cant deny that as they evolved as players their scoring dropped and the team became better for it.

And sure LeBron has rarely been the best scorer in the league, but he's been at or near the top every single season. What's that got to do with anything? Kyrie has never been the best scorer in the league either but look at his reputation.

Just clarifying again that Kobe was a phenomenal shot creator over his career, it's just that his "clutch time" shots didn't scream "omg how skilled". It was either a facepalm or "Damn Kobe can make some crazy shots".

Was there nothing that Kobe was better than Lebron at, in your opinion?

Absolutely. Kobe was a better overall pure shooter than LeBron (FTs included), and a better post scorer, making him a more versatile scorer, but at the end of the day, I'm not sure i could put him definitely above LeBron as a scorer, because scoring is all about buckets, which LeBron has shown he can get, while being a pass-first player. He might not look as pretty as Kobe when he's doing it, but he does it really really well.

I couldn't disagree more. You act like 50 point games are easy. I will definitely disagree. When Lebron is forced to score above 30, his field goal percentage suffers tremendously. See the last Spurs finals when he averaged 35 ppg and .396 FG%. When he's well-contested? Lebron has a ton of trouble making shots. The more points you're forced to score, the further down your field goal percentage goes. You claiming that Lebron could score 50 point games at will is like me claiming that Demar Derozan can average 40 on slightly lower efficiency - it's way off. If Lebron had that ability, he would have more scoring titles. But Durant is a better scorer, period. And so was Kobe. Lebron lacks midrange and a post game. I can't imagine him having a slew of 50 point games, just hitting threes and getting to the rack all the time.

[dhsilv2]

In 77 games where james has scored 40 or more his TS% is 67.2%. In the 11 game he scored 50 or more it was 70.9%. In the 449 games he's scored more than 30, it's 63.5%. He's at 58.6 TS for his career.

[Long2s]

In 77 games where james has scored 40 or more his TS% is 67.2%. In the 11 game he scored 50 or more it was 70.9%. In the 449 games he's scored more than 30, it's 63.5%. He's at 58.6 TS for his career.

The entirely wrong way to look at it.

Compare the number of FGA not FGM.

[Drylick]

I can't believe what I'm reading. MJ has way more legendary clutch moments in the finals and you know it, "LeBird". Lebron's midrange percentage is wretched, why do you think he'd be a good clutch choice? He has the not-clutch reputation for a reason. Any smart person takes jordan over Lebron for that last 30 seconds to two minutes, let alone the last shot. On top of this, you have clutch defense. The GOAT comparison is always fabricated by the media. It happens to whomever is the best player in the league. Steph two years ago. When someone is dominant and way ahead of the other players, I will admit it's compatible, just as I admitted Steph was the closest we've seen to Jordan dominance. I would love to see it. That's why the Lebron comparisons are so obnoxious/annoying. I was telling my friends "what we're witnessing with Steph... this is special. Let's see if it translates to playoff defense." I was cheering for him despite comparisons. They were well-deserved.

Well I would choose Jordan. No one else. When my life is on the line and it depends on the last moments of the game? NO ONE who watched both players play would choose LeBron. Why would they choose LeBron? They know they would die if they picked him.

[Drylick]

Dipper already did this clutch thing before. And Jordan comes out on top - overwhelmingly.

[Baski]

I couldn't disagree more. You act like 50 point games are easy.

And you act like we're talking about Tony Parker. This is LeBron James we're talking about. Come on now. I can't believe he's in his 15th season averaging 27 ppg for his career on pace to finish well above Kobe in All time scoring and people still doubt his volume scoring prowess. He just had a 57pt game on 34 shots for crying out loud. I honestly fail to see how LeBron, or any Top 10 player outside of maybe Magic, could not score 50pts 10 times out of a possible 82 chances if given the green light on a bad team like Kobe was given. Not trying to disrespect Kobe but in praising him you don't just disrespect other ATGs like that.

I will definitely disagree. When Lebron is forced to score above 30, his field goal percentage suffers tremendously. See the last Spurs finals when he averaged 35 ppg and .396 FG%.

I'll need proof of your first claim. And im guessing for your second claim, you got some series mixed up?

Regardless, how about his 33ppg in this past finals, or his 39ppg against the Magic in 09, scratch that his entire 09 playoffs, or his entire 30 ppg 2012 playoffs? Where's the tremendous suffering of his FG% in those years? Surely a 2-5 ppg gap cannot account for such a massive dropoff in effieciency. This is all aside from the fact that the guy we're comparing him to averages 40% in the finals (since you decided to take it there), and his peak scoring of 32 ppg was at a 43% clip. His next best scoring finals he shot 40%. Hardly separates himself from LeBron if you ask me. And all of THAT is aside from the fact that you're basing his inability to score above 30ppg efficiently on 6 games out of his countless others in his career. How about you look at his entire seasons of 31 in 06 (year 3) and 30ppg (year 5), both at 48%. Where do those fit in this "he can't score 30ppg" narrative? I will say this again: Young ATG who takes many shots and scores many points will often have little team success. Kobe has proven this, Jordan, Wilt, Westbrook if you count him, and a couple of others too. LeBron realizes this, like the other ATGs did, and that's why they're ATGs. They figure it out.

When he's well-contested? Lebron has a ton of trouble making shots. The more points you're forced to score, the further down your field goal percentage goes. You claiming that Lebron could score 50 point games at will is like me claiming that Demar Derozan can average 40 on slightly lower efficiency - it's way off.

What the hell? Do you have no respect whatsoever for LeBron or what? Claiming that LeBron can string together 50pt games if he wanted because he's an ATG scorer, is akin to claiming that Derozan can average a ppg that even Michael Jordan never reached? Look i get that it sucks watching people disrespect Jordan in your eyes, but doing the same to LeBron is not going to make Jordan appear any greater.

If Lebron had that ability, he would have more scoring titles. But Durant is a better scorer, period. And so was Kobe. Lebron lacks midrange and a post game. I can't imagine him having a slew of 50 point games, just hitting threes and getting to the rack all the time.

Lol at more scoring titles. Kobe has 2 to LeBron's 1 so I'm not sure what exactly your point is. Durant has 4 and he's scored 50+ only like twice in his career. How does that speak against LeBron but rather for Kobe? I'm beginning to think you're more firing back at the LBJ>MJ guys than actually discussing this topic.

[dhsilv2]

In 77 games where james has scored 40 or more his TS% is 67.2%. In the 11 game he scored 50 or more it was 70.9%. In the 449 games he's scored more than 30, it's 63.5%. He's at 58.6 TS for his career.

The entirely wrong way to look at it.

Compare the number of FGA not FGM.

Are you saying I did the TS% calculation incorrectly and by using FGM I would wind up with a TS% of only 63%?

[Baski]

In 77 games where james has scored 40 or more his TS% is 67.2%. In the 11 game he scored 50 or more it was 70.9%. In the 449 games he's scored more than 30, it's 63.5%. He's at 58.6 TS for his career.

Impressive. I'd love to see how Kobe compares if it's not too much trouble. Hopefully he doesn't outperform LeBron as much as I'm being led to believe.


It's crazy that even in a season where LeBron is beasting from all areas of the court, people are using silly gimmicks like muh postfootworks and muh midrange to claim he's not as good a scorer as Kobe. Makes me wish he would just pick two months and say "screw passing" and go on a a streak of 27 shots per game just to see how much he could score. Bet it would give people fits on here.

[dhsilv2]

In 77 games where james has scored 40 or more his TS% is 67.2%. In the 11 game he scored 50 or more it was 70.9%. In the 449 games he's scored more than 30, it's 63.5%. He's at 58.6 TS for his career.

Impressive. I'd love to see how Kobe compares if it's not too much trouble. Hopefully he doesn't outperform LeBron as much as I'm being led to believe.


It's crazy that even in a season where LeBron is beasting from all areas of the court, people are using silly gimmicks like muh postfootworks and muh midrange to claim he's not as good a scorer as Kobe. Makes me wish he would just pick two months and say "screw passing" and go on a a streak of 27 shots per game just to see how much he could score. Bet it would give people fits on here.

I'll take a stab when I get home, and I guess scatter plot their TS% to FGA's which I think is what someone else asked for.

But people score more when they're shooting well, normally. I'd expect Kobe to be above his average TS% as well.

[bledredwine]

In 77 games where james has scored 40 or more his TS% is 67.2%. In the 11 game he scored 50 or more it was 70.9%. In the 449 games he's scored more than 30, it's 63.5%. He's at 58.6 TS for his career.

Impressive. I'd love to see how Kobe compares if it's not too much trouble. Hopefully he doesn't outperform LeBron as much as I'm being led to believe.


It's crazy that even in a season where LeBron is beasting from all areas of the court, people are using silly gimmicks like muh postfootworks and muh midrange to claim he's not as good a scorer as Kobe. Makes me wish he would just pick two months and say "screw passing" and go on a a streak of 27 shots per game just to see how much he could score. Bet it would give people fits on here.

It doesn't take a genius to see that Kobe had 1. Way more moves. 2. A post game, which does provide more versatility to scoring. Let me know if you agree or disagree? If you disagree with that, I can't take you seriously. 3. A better midrange game and unstoppable move with his fadeaway and thus 4. A better ability to volume score. My post is concise, logical, and true. This is what drives me nuts about Lebron fans - You guys and your hypotheticals/excuses. "Lebron can score 50 when he wants!" Oh really? Than why is it considered one of Lebron's best playoff games of his career when he scores 40 points? Do you think that he chooses not to have dominant playoff games? That he chose to let Durant outscore him in the clutch last year's finals, that he genuinely thought deferring to his teammates would win those games? Orrrr perhaps he isn't the scorer that you think he is. Hell he hasn't been the best scorer in the league for more than a few years in his career. Durant and Kobe are more dominant scorers, period.

[bledredwine]

It's not like Lebron doesn't already take whichever good shots he has. To Kobe, a fadeaway was a good shot.... and he could do that whenever he wanted. Lebron has nothing of the sort. When he's guarded well? He defers. Hence why he got outplayed by Durant, yet again a few days ago.

[Ainosterhaspie]

LeBron has a fade away and has for a while.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[PaulieWal]

And LeBron has no post game lol. Seriously you have people here saying this forum is full of "kids" and that they didn't see MJ play. I'm starting to wonder if some posters here have seen LeBron play.

[Long2s]

In 77 games where james has scored 40 or more his TS% is 67.2%. In the 11 game he scored 50 or more it was 70.9%. In the 449 games he's scored more than 30, it's 63.5%. He's at 58.6 TS for his career.

The entirely wrong way to look at it.

Compare the number of FGA not FGM.

Are you saying I did the TS% calculation incorrectly and by using FGM I would wind up with a TS% of only 63%?

I'm saying that choosing 50 point games is self selection bias.

Instead, take a look at volume of attempts. Like I did here: viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1653542

That's what happens when MJ, Lebron and Kobe take 30 FGA in a playoff game.

[bledredwine]

And LeBron has no post game lol. Seriously you have people here saying this forum is full of "kids" and that they didn't see MJ play. I'm starting to wonder if some posters here have seen LeBron play.

Please link us to all of his wonderful fitness post moves. I can watch on my phone.

[Baski]

It doesn't take a genius to see that Kobe had 1. Way more moves. 2. A post game, which does provide more versatility to scoring. Let me know if you agree or disagree? If you disagree with that, I can't take you seriously.
3. A better midrange game and unstoppable move with his fadeaway and thus 4. A better ability to volume score.

Totally agree. I said so in one of my earlier posts in this very thread. Kobe can shoot better and scores better from the post. My point on Kobe's skillset was originally that, despite all his moves and countermoves and footwork and whatnot, when the ball goes to him at the end of games, he basically just dribbles and pulls up for a contested fadeaway, most times with hands in his face. This is not good shot creation in the clutch. It's just shooting because you believe you can make any shot. Kudos to him for making some of those, but it doesn't support that he can indeed "create any shot that he wants in the clutch"

Now that the discussion has evolved into scoring ability as a whole, for all his skills and moves and counter moves, and LeBron's supposed lack of them, LeBron is comfortably on pace to easily surpass Kobe in All Time scoring, and in his 15th season, is among the top three scorers in the league, and has been since like 06 give or take a few years. Number one in playoff points in fewer shots than Kobe and even Jordan himself, on pace to absolutely shatter all playoffs and finals scoring records by miles, likely making them unbreakable for years to come. Now how does a player get to this status without being an ATG scorer? He can't? And you're offended because i believe he can score as well as another ATG scorer in Kobe? That just reeks of bias.

My post is concise, logical, and true. This is what drives me nuts about Lebron fans - You guys and your hypotheticals/excuses. "Lebron can score 50 when he wants!" Oh really? Than why is it considered one of Lebron's best playoff games of his career when he scores 40 points? Do you think that he chooses not to have dominant playoff games?

You see it's statements like this that make me think that you have no interest in arguing for Kobe and this is just a LeBron hate session. Most of what you say here does nothing to help Kobe in the slightest if you actually know what you're talking about. I'll just lay down a few facts for you to make you see how little sense this particular paragraph makes:
For all your talking about playoff scoring, are you aware that Kobe's career high in the playoffs is 50-yup exactly 50 pts? He got that playing 52 minutes against the 06 Suns. LeBron on the other hand has a career high of 49 in 41 mins against the 09 Magic. With how sure you were that 40+pts is such a huge achievement for LeBron, i did some digging of my own and found that Kobe has 13 games of 40+ points in the playoffs, the highest being that 50 point game in 52 mins. Guess how many LeBron has: Again with how sure you were of Kobe's apparent superiority, i expected fewer, but surprise surprise, he has 19. So am i to assume that Kobe doesn't have dominant playoff games based on your illogical rant? Or is the 1pt gap in career highs enough to offset the advantage in number of "dominant games" James has over Kobe?
Honestly with every post it looks like you're not even aware of Kobe's actual track record, just somehow sure that he's better than James, and that's not a good look.

And just to clarify, I'm assuming you're talking about the game 6 against Boston with that "best game of his career" comment. That was one of the most masterful performances i or anyone has ever seen, and your willingness to downplay a 45-15-5 performance because it was "just a 40pt game" pretty much proves you either didn't watch it or just don't like LeBron. Anyone who saw that performance knows that 60 wouldn't have been out of the question, but it's just like LeBron to destroy a team in the first half and just get everyone else going to finish the game. Too bad he wasn't in love with scoring like Kobe was.

That he chose to let Durant outscore him in the clutch last year's finals, that he genuinely thought deferring to his teammates would win those games? Orrrr perhaps he isn't the scorer that you think he is.

You say this like Durant outscoring someone in the clutch in a series makes them a subpar scorer or something. Like the fact that Durant averaged 35ppg to LeBron's 33 ppg, both more than Kobe has ever done and infinitely more efficiently than he could ever hope to be in the finals, knocks LeBron down below Kobe, who himself is an underwhelming scorer in the finals. Kobe was terrible in the clutch for his last 2 rings, Gasol actually outplayed him when the going got tough, but overall Kobe was the most important factor in them winning those series, and he was acknowledged accordingly. It wouldn't be that hard for Durant on GSW to outscore him in the clutch, so yet again i have no idea what you think this proves in Kobe's favour. That's just a weird way to put Kobe above LeBron, unless like i suspect this is more against LeBron than for Kobe.

Hell he hasn't been the best scorer in the league for more than a few years in his career.

No he has not, but has Kobe? Did he win more than the 2 scoring titles we all know about, or did his fancy footwork and postgame still make him the best scorer in the years he didn't win? Cos that would be great and we could start crowning Kyrie Irving as the de facto best scorer in the league every year till he retires.

Durant and Kobe are more dominant scorers, period.

Not in the playoffs they're not. Especially not Durant lmao. He's an All Time Great scorer and he's still young but he has a long way to go to match LeBron's playoff scoring pedigree.
With Kobe you could say that for regular season and I could easily be convinced, though i disagree, but in the playoffs, according to your criterion of 40 and 50 pt games, or any criterion really, no Kobe is not a better scorer than LeBron, period. Did i do it right?

[Xherdan 23]

And LeBron has no post game lol. Seriously you have people here saying this forum is full of "kids" and that they didn't see MJ play. I'm starting to wonder if some posters here have seen LeBron play.

Please link us to all of his wonderful fitness post moves. I can watch on my phone.

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Youtube is pretty easy. Just type what you're looking for.

[bledredwine]

And LeBron has no post game lol. Seriously you have people here saying this forum is full of "kids" and that they didn't see MJ play. I'm starting to wonder if some posters here have seen LeBron play.

Please link us to all of his wonderful fitness post moves. I can watch on my phone.

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Youtube is pretty easy. Just type what you're looking for.

See this is what I'm talking about. Poor footwork. If by postgame, you mean a sloppy hook shot from time to time, or backing down his opponents and then spinning, then sure. Kobe had footwork and touch. It was natural and consistently used.