Otto Porter - Part 3

[payitforward]

Jae Crowder is basically the poster child for this, as he's finished #26 and #20 in the league in RPM the last two years. He's not a top 25 player in the league, and I don't think anyone but PIF would really make the argument that he is.

Stop being a twerp, dude.

Jae Crowder is a nicely above average NBA player. What is notable about him for a Wizards fan is that he was picked two spots after Tomas Satoransky.

Go back to the 2012 draft thread, & you'll find me calling for us to draft either Crowder or Draymond Green at #32. I believe I can say with some confidence that you weren't calling for the same thing. In fact, until I mentioned him, or Kev did, or CCJ did, you'd never heard of him, had you? If I ask you where he played his college ball, you'll have to look it up, won't you?

I mean this has nothing to do with my argument. Crowder is a nice player on a great contract, but he's still not a top 25 player in the league.

Read the part I quoted from you, gtn; the part where you mention me. I just put it in bold. That's why I chimed in.

You have a right to your opinion about Crowder or any player -- or any trade. Goes w/o saying. & in this case you are certainly correct about Crowder. In fact, I agreed w/ you.

So, once again, why don't you do yourself a favor & stop trying to prove you're a jerk?

[gtn130]

First you say that my post has little to do with what you are talking about, then out of the blue you bring up players salaries.

W T F

Tontoz, I'm not sure you even have the mental capacity to keep up with anything in this thread.

RPM rates those guys I listed, with the exception of Otto, well above their pay grade. Either there's a massive inefficiency in the market, or RPM just doesn't properly rate players who stand in the corner and shoot 3s while playing good defense (I know Otto does more than that at this stage).

I'm not gonna keep digging up my posts and pointing you to exact words and phrases that prove something I've already said because you're too obtuse to read things and understand them before posting.

You know, tontoz & I have had some epic arguments, but I am pretty sure I never suggested that his "mental capacity" was limited or that he was "obtuse." & I don't think he suggested that in my direction.

Just so we're clear: I can assure you I'm smarter than you. I've written more books, read more books, made more money, speak more languages, have lived in more countries, have taught at more colleges, had more sex, & done more drugs than you. A lot more in most of those cases.

But, that doesn't mean that I'm going to accuse you of being stupid, gtn. Maybe you could get with the program & stop trying to demonstrate that you are.

You seem mad.

I'm pretty sure you called my man SD20 some names in the Politics thread, though, so we should be good here

[gtn130]

Stop being a twerp, dude.

Jae Crowder is a nicely above average NBA player. What is notable about him for a Wizards fan is that he was picked two spots after Tomas Satoransky.

Go back to the 2012 draft thread, & you'll find me calling for us to draft either Crowder or Draymond Green at #32. I believe I can say with some confidence that you weren't calling for the same thing. In fact, until I mentioned him, or Kev did, or CCJ did, you'd never heard of him, had you? If I ask you where he played his college ball, you'll have to look it up, won't you?

I mean this has nothing to do with my argument. Crowder is a nice player on a great contract, but he's still not a top 25 player in the league.

Read the part I quoted from you, gtn; the part where you mention me. I just put it in bold. That's why I chimed in.

You have a right to your opinion about Crowder or any player -- or any trade. Goes w/o saying. & in this case you are certainly correct about Crowder. In fact, I agreed w/ you.

So, once again, why don't you do yourself a favor & stop trying to prove you're a jerk?

PIF, it's your principle, not mine, to be polite to people who say bad/dumb things. At least I consistently adhere to the things I believe in, whereas you're in here being sanctimonious about name calling, something you do pretty readily in other threads.

[payitforward]

...Yes, I believe RPM overrates 3/D wings by way of ORPM, a subset of RPM, overvaluing offensive efficiency and undervaluing shot creation. Hope this helps for your next gotcha attempt

How is RPM calculated, gtn?

How would a person go about correcting valuing "shot creation?" Please do this quantitatively if you don't mind. Otherwise there's no way to know whether your formula undervalues it or overvalues it.

Oh & once again -- how is RPM calculated? Or, rather, how is ORPM calculated, & how is DRPM calculated?

If you don't know, how can you possibly know whether ORPM overvalues or undervalues a kind of player or a given player? By comparing to your private list which you know is accurate, b/c after all it's what you think so it has to be accurate.

Here's a related question: how many NBA games have you watched this week? Other than Wizards games (if you've watched any of those). Which ones? You haven't watched any, have you?

[nuposse04]

So back to Porter...

What I'd like to see him add next is probably the more use of pump fakes and head fakes. I think he develop an "old man" game in ISO situations that could be useful. His ability to post up and shoot over smaller players is already very useful.

[payitforward]

I mean this has nothing to do with my argument. Crowder is a nice player on a great contract, but he's still not a top 25 player in the league.

Read the part I quoted from you, gtn; the part where you mention me. I just put it in bold. That's why I chimed in.

You have a right to your opinion about Crowder or any player -- or any trade. Goes w/o saying. & in this case you are certainly correct about Crowder. In fact, I agreed w/ you.

So, once again, why don't you do yourself a favor & stop trying to prove you're a jerk?

PIF, it's your principle, not mine, to be polite to people who say bad/dumb things. At least I consistently adhere to the things I believe in, whereas you're in here being sanctimonious about name calling, something you do pretty readily in other threads.

So I guess that means you aren't going to stop working to prove what a jerk you are?

As to my being polite to people who say bad/dumb things, nah. I'm just polite to people who are polite to me -- whatever they say (well... anyway I try!). Anyway, you should know better than that about me: you say one dumb thing after another, & I'm not being all that polite to you, am I? Even though, obviously, you just aren't capable of saying anything very intelligent. Not to mention that you're incapable of saying anything nice.

Actually, hey, I take all that back -- after all, in a forum like this it's all free swings since none of them can actually make any contact! Sure, you're an idiot. But, what do I care, right?

[gtn130]

Read the part I quoted from you, gtn; the part where you mention me. I just put it in bold. That's why I chimed in.

You have a right to your opinion about Crowder or any player -- or any trade. Goes w/o saying. & in this case you are certainly correct about Crowder. In fact, I agreed w/ you.

So, once again, why don't you do yourself a favor & stop trying to prove you're a jerk?

PIF, it's your principle, not mine, to be polite to people who say bad/dumb things. At least I consistently adhere to the things I believe in, whereas you're in here being sanctimonious about name calling, something you do pretty readily in other threads.

So I guess that means you aren't going to stop working to prove what a jerk you are?

As to my being polite to people who say bad/dumb things, nah. I'm just polite to people who are polite to me -- whatever they say (well... anyway I try!). Anyway, you should know better than that about me: you say one dumb thing after another, & I'm not being all that polite to you, am I? Even though, obviously, you just aren't capable of saying anything very intelligent. Not to mention that you're incapable of saying anything nice.

Actually, hey, I take all that back -- after all, in a forum like this it's all free swings since none of them can actually make any contact! Sure, you're an idiot. But, what do I care, right?

Like I said, we don't share the same principles here. I sleep fine at night.

And yeah, I'm not too bothered by random yahoos on the internet calling me names or thinking I'm mean. Especially the tontoz types who are stone dumb.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[tontoz]

Jae Crowder is basically the poster child for this, as he's finished #26 and #20 in the league in RPM the last two years. He's not a top 25 player in the league, and I don't think anyone but PIF would really make the argument that he is.

Stop being a twerp, dude.

Jae Crowder is a nicely above average NBA player. What is notable about him for a Wizards fan is that he was picked two spots after Tomas Satoransky.

Go back to the 2012 draft thread, & you'll find me calling for us to draft either Crowder or Draymond Green at #32. I believe I can say with some confidence that you weren't calling for the same thing. In fact, until I mentioned him, or Kev did, or CCJ did, you'd never heard of him, had you? If I ask you where he played his college ball, you'll have to look it up, won't you?

I mean this has nothing to do with my argument. Crowder is a nice player on a great contract, but he's still not a top 25 player in the league.

The problem is that your argument keeps changing. You can't make up your mind whether it is ORPM or RPM that overrates role players.

If you persist in bringing up RPM then I ask again how exactly does DRPM overrate role players?

[gtn130]

Stop being a twerp, dude.

Jae Crowder is a nicely above average NBA player. What is notable about him for a Wizards fan is that he was picked two spots after Tomas Satoransky.

Go back to the 2012 draft thread, & you'll find me calling for us to draft either Crowder or Draymond Green at #32. I believe I can say with some confidence that you weren't calling for the same thing. In fact, until I mentioned him, or Kev did, or CCJ did, you'd never heard of him, had you? If I ask you where he played his college ball, you'll have to look it up, won't you?

I mean this has nothing to do with my argument. Crowder is a nice player on a great contract, but he's still not a top 25 player in the league.

The problem is that your argument keeps changing. You can't make up your mind whether it is ORPM or RPM that overrates role players.

If you persist in bringing up RPM then I ask again how exactly does DRPM overrate role players?

I don't know, man, I'm not positive, but I think the problem might actually be that you can't read.

[tontoz]

I mean this has nothing to do with my argument. Crowder is a nice player on a great contract, but he's still not a top 25 player in the league.

The problem is that your argument keeps changing. You can't make up your mind whether it is ORPM or RPM that overrates role players.

If you persist in bringing up RPM then I ask again how exactly does DRPM overrate role players?

I don't know, man, I'm not positive, but I think the problem might actually be that you can't read.

Ad hominem, the fall back option for people that can't make a coherent argument.

Again, how does DRPM (half of RPM) overrate role players?

[nate33]

Alright you guys. I think it's time to end the discussion. Nobody is going to convince anybody of anything and you're just insulting each other now. How about everyone cool off and cease posting in this thread for a day?

[FAH1223]

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[Ruzious]

Beal at 36... behind guys like West, Dinwiddie, Collison... disappointing but something we can work with. Wall at 57... simply unacceptible, imo.

[Dark Faze]

Otto has the worst on/off court differential of the big three though.

[Dark Faze]

Otto's 31 minutes a game are too low. To be frank, I don't know how much Brooks like him. I think that's a mistake obviously, but if you watch the games and see the way the rotations work--it doesn't make sense how long Otto is out sometimes. 31 minutes on average is too low for a starting wing on a team that can't ever crack 50 wins.

[dckingsfan]

Otto's 31 minutes a game are too low. To be frank, I don't know how much Brooks like him. I think that's a mistake obviously, but if you watch the games and see the way the rotations work--it doesn't make sense how long Otto is out sometimes. 31 minutes on average is too low for a starting wing on a team that can't ever crack 50 wins.

I think it could be because there is an acceptable backup to him at SF?

Whereas there isn't really anyone close to Wall/Beal...

[queridiculo]

Otto's 31 minutes a game are too low. To be frank, I don't know how much Brooks like him. I think that's a mistake obviously, but if you watch the games and see the way the rotations work--it doesn't make sense how long Otto is out sometimes. 31 minutes on average is too low for a starting wing on a team that can't ever crack 50 wins.

I think it could be because there is an acceptable backup to him at SF?

Whereas there isn't really anyone close to Wall/Beal...

I think the majority of Oubre's minutes should come at the expense of Morris, not Porter.

In fact, if Morris didn't see the floor more than 24 minutes with Oubre and Porter combining to pick up the rest I'd be perfectly happy.

[Dark Faze]

Otto's 31 minutes a game are too low. To be frank, I don't know how much Brooks like him. I think that's a mistake obviously, but if you watch the games and see the way the rotations work--it doesn't make sense how long Otto is out sometimes. 31 minutes on average is too low for a starting wing on a team that can't ever crack 50 wins.

I think it could be because there is an acceptable backup to him at SF?

Whereas there isn't really anyone close to Wall/Beal...

I think the majority of Oubre's minutes should come at the expense of Morris, not Porter.

In fact, if Morris didn't see the floor more than 24 minutes with Oubre and Porter combining to pick up the rest I'd be perfectly happy.

Or just cut Meeks from the rotation and split those minutes between Oubre/Porter, both who are fully capable of playing and defending the 2

[payitforward]

Alright you guys. I think it's time to end the discussion. Nobody is going to convince anybody of anything and you're just insulting each other now. How about everyone cool off and cease posting in this thread for a day?

Just read back through this -- gtn, apologies for the tone of a few of those posts. Really not worth the friction & heat....

[tontoz]

I haven't been able to find any info on RPM on ESPN's site so i googled it. I found this seriously TLDR article.

https://cornerthreehoops.wordpress.com/2014/04/17/explaining-espns-real-plus-minus/

The cliff notes version is that it isnt meant to measure solely what has happened this season. It is meant to be a predictive stat based on performance from past seasons in addition to this season. It is skeptical of performance way above or below past seasons. If a guy is having a breakout season this year then RPM will not give him full credit for his effect on the team this year because it expects his play to normalize in the future.

It isn't meant to compare players at different positions, it is meant to compare players at the same position. It is also designed to be relatively unaffected by his teammates play.

A RPM of 0 is meant to indicate an average player. Replacement player is -2.35.