Why is Jokic considered the Nuggets best player?

[TooBad]

When someone is called "inconsistent" or "no show", while averaging a double-double (and being unselfish to the bone), that's already telling enough.

We're talking offensive consistency (at least I was). If you get 40 pts 1 night and 8 the next 3 you'll still average 16 pts but you really only had a significant impact in 1 game. Jokic has already had 8 games this season where he has gotten less than 9 pts this season and 5 where he has gotten 10-13 pts. He has gotten 13 pts or less in nearly half the games he's played so clearly his average doesn't tell the full story. Jamal Murray has had more 20 pt+ games than Jokic this season (or Harris for that matter).

[NuggetsWY]

When someone is called "inconsistent" or "no show", while averaging a double-double (and being unselfish to the bone), that's already telling enough.

We're talking offensive consistency (at least I was). If you get 40 pts 1 night and 8 the next 3 you'll still average 16 pts but you really only had a significant impact in 1 game. Jokic has already had 8 games this season where he has gotten less than 9 pts this season and 5 where he has gotten 10-13 pts. He has gotten 13 pts or less in nearly half the games he's played so clearly his average doesn't tell the full story. Jamal Murray has had more 20 pt+ games than Jokic this season (or Harris for that matter).

and Jokic was clearly in a better offense last year than this year --- if you put LeBron James in an offense where he is used strictly as a spot-up 3 pt corner shooter, he wouldn't look too good either --- Jokic is spending a lot of time setting picks around the key area - he is best when the ball is in his hands with cutters so he can pass - he's averaging 12 shots per game but like you pointed out; 20 shots one night and 6 the next means he is only impacting one game --- the problem isn't Jokic, it's the offense --- but that's just my opinion and I've been wrong before

[TooBad]

When someone is called "inconsistent" or "no show", while averaging a double-double (and being unselfish to the bone), that's already telling enough.

We're talking offensive consistency (at least I was). If you get 40 pts 1 night and 8 the next 3 you'll still average 16 pts but you really only had a significant impact in 1 game. Jokic has already had 8 games this season where he has gotten less than 9 pts this season and 5 where he has gotten 10-13 pts. He has gotten 13 pts or less in nearly half the games he's played so clearly his average doesn't tell the full story. Jamal Murray has had more 20 pt+ games than Jokic this season (or Harris for that matter).

and Jokic was clearly in a better offense last year than this year --- if you put LeBron James in an offense where he is used strictly as a spot-up 3 pt corner shooter, he wouldn't look too good either --- Jokic is spending a lot of time setting picks around the key area - he is best when the ball is in his hands with cutters so he can pass - he's averaging 12 shots per game but like you pointed out; 20 shots one night and 6 the next means he is only impacting one game --- the problem isn't Jokic, it's the offense --- but that's just my opinion and I've been wrong before

Its weird because his usage is down by only .8 this year which isn't much so he is still getting a similar amount of plays called for him. However, this is probably inconsistent as well from game to game due to mismatches. IMO he is not getting the touches he was because the players around him are all capable offensively and its better to have an offense that shares the ball than consistently goes to one player (this was the Raptors problem for the past few years). In order to get Jokic more involved you have to tell Murray/Harris/Millsap/Lyles,etc to take less shots and they are all equally deserving (The team is stacked).

[Richard Miller]

When someone is called "inconsistent" or "no show", while averaging a double-double (and being unselfish to the bone), that's already telling enough.

We're talking offensive consistency (at least I was). If you get 40 pts 1 night and 8 the next 3 you'll still average 16 pts but you really only had a significant impact in 1 game. Jokic has already had 8 games this season where he has gotten less than 9 pts this season and 5 where he has gotten 10-13 pts.

4 out of those 8 games he had 6+ assists so he was still doing something offensively. Not to mention that at least one of those games you label as "meh 10-13pts" he was pretty much triple-double 12/17/9/4, you're massively underselling him for some reason.

[skywalker33]

I only see you degrading Jokic around here,

So calling him our best player is degrading him...... maybe I don't idolize him like you, but I do know talent when I see it.

Yes, I think what makes Jokic the team's best player is his full well-rounded game.

how he doesn't have the stats from the last year, his assists are down etc. Even though everyone knows by now that the offense from the last season is gone.

Facts are facts, you have a problem with that ??? You blame it all off on "the offense", but it could just as easily be that other teams are adjusting to Jokic's game, probably a bit of both, You just seem to want to deflect ANY and ALL blame from Jokic, that comes across as being very obvious in most all your posts. I try to look at things more objectively.

Jokic could have better number if he's involved more on the offensive end like the last season , we seen him having monster performances this year when he get enough touches, his assists would go up if his teammates would cut and move more.

I have no doubt his numbers would, but Jokic is such a humble player, HE defers when he should shoot, it's not like the coaches are on him to do it, he does it himself.

Sorry I don't see Murray being in the Kobe mold, not versatile enough also not that good in the clutch situations.

As I posted in a previous post, I'm not comparing Murray to Kobe, just saying he has that scorer's mentality and seems like he will be a player that can be looked to for that go-to scoring. If you can't see that of him in his SECOND year at the age of just 20yo, you're blinded by your Jokic-'love .

Once again Kobe put him on a pedestal like you. before Pau arrived via trade couldn't even propel his team to play offs , he was stuffing stats that's was about it.

Once again you show how short-sighted you are. Tell me what Pau did before he joined the Lakers....NOTHING. In fact, in his time in Memphis he never even lead the Grizz to a conference championship game let alone a division crow. You come across as he if was him who led the Lakers, he played his Scottie Pippen role well, but he still was supporting cast.

FWIW, I am not saying Jokic won't be a huge part in what happens with the Nuggets, but I'll wait until that happens before I

[HoopsMalone]

I only see you degrading Jokic around here,

So calling him our best player is degrading him...... maybe I don't idolize him like you, but I do know talent when I see it.

Yes, I think what makes Jokic the team's best player is his full well-rounded game.

how he doesn't have the stats from the last year, his assists are down etc. Even though everyone knows by now that the offense from the last season is gone.

Facts are facts, you have a problem with that ??? You blame it all off on "the offense", but it could just as easily be that other teams are adjusting to Jokic's game, probably a bit of both, You just seem to want to deflect ANY and ALL blame from Jokic, that comes across as being very obvious in most all your posts. I try to look at things more objectively.

Jokic could have better number if he's involved more on the offensive end like the last season , we seen him having monster performances this year when he get enough touches, his assists would go up if his teammates would cut and move more.

I have no doubt his numbers would, but Jokic is such a humble player, HE defers when he should shoot, it's not like the coaches are on him to do it, he does it himself.

Sorry I don't see Murray being in the Kobe mold, not versatile enough also not that good in the clutch situations.

As I posted in a previous post, I'm not comparing Murray to Kobe, just saying he has that scorer's mentality and seems like he will be a player that can be looked to for that go-to scoring. If you can't see that of him in his SECOND year at the age of just 20yo, you're blinded by your Jokic-'love .

Once again Kobe put him on a pedestal like you. before Pau arrived via trade couldn't even propel his team to play offs , he was stuffing stats that's was about it.

Once again you show how short-sighted you are. Tell me what Pau did before he joined the Lakers....NOTHING. In fact, in his time in Memphis he never even lead the Grizz to a conference championship game let alone a division crow. You come across as he if was him who led the Lakers, he played his Scottie Pippen role well, but he still was supporting cast.

FWIW, I am not saying Jokic won't be a huge part in what happens with the Nuggets, but I'll wait until that happens before I

Gasol was probably better than Kobe on those title teams. You could easily make that argument anyway.

[skywalker33]

I only see you degrading Jokic around here,

So calling him our best player is degrading him...... maybe I don't idolize him like you, but I do know talent when I see it.

Yes, I think what makes Jokic the team's best player is his full well-rounded game.

how he doesn't have the stats from the last year, his assists are down etc. Even though everyone knows by now that the offense from the last season is gone.

Facts are facts, you have a problem with that ??? You blame it all off on "the offense", but it could just as easily be that other teams are adjusting to Jokic's game, probably a bit of both, You just seem to want to deflect ANY and ALL blame from Jokic, that comes across as being very obvious in most all your posts. I try to look at things more objectively.

Jokic could have better number if he's involved more on the offensive end like the last season , we seen him having monster performances this year when he get enough touches, his assists would go up if his teammates would cut and move more.

I have no doubt his numbers would, but Jokic is such a humble player, HE defers when he should shoot, it's not like the coaches are on him to do it, he does it himself.

Sorry I don't see Murray being in the Kobe mold, not versatile enough also not that good in the clutch situations.

As I posted in a previous post, I'm not comparing Murray to Kobe, just saying he has that scorer's mentality and seems like he will be a player that can be looked to for that go-to scoring. If you can't see that of him in his SECOND year at the age of just 20yo, you're blinded by your Jokic-'love .

Once again Kobe put him on a pedestal like you. before Pau arrived via trade couldn't even propel his team to play offs , he was stuffing stats that's was about it.

Once again you show how short-sighted you are. Tell me what Pau did before he joined the Lakers....NOTHING. In fact, in his time in Memphis he never even lead the Grizz to a conference championship game let alone a division crow. You come across as he if was him who led the Lakers, he played his Scottie Pippen role well, but he still was supporting cast.

FWIW, I am not saying Jokic won't be a huge part in what happens with the Nuggets, but I'll wait until that happens before I

Gasol was probably better than Kobe on those title teams. You could easily make that argument anyway.

What, not in the playoffs ??? In 2009 Kobe bombed away for 32/5.5/7.4/1.5spg/1.4bpg to Pau's 18/9/2/1/2 while 2yrs younger than Kobe. In 2010, Kobe averaged 28/8/4/2stls to Pau's 18/11/3.5/2.5blks. Pau was more of a defensive, but hard to say outplayed Kobe in either year. How do you say Pau was better during those two playoff runs ??

[HoopsMalone]

So calling him our best player is degrading him...... maybe I don't idolize him like you, but I do know talent when I see it.





Facts are facts, you have a problem with that ??? You blame it all off on "the offense", but it could just as easily be that other teams are adjusting to Jokic's game, probably a bit of both, You just seem to want to deflect ANY and ALL blame from Jokic, that comes across as being very obvious in most all your posts. I try to look at things more objectively.



I have no doubt his numbers would, but Jokic is such a humble player, HE defers when he should shoot, it's not like the coaches are on him to do it, he does it himself.



As I posted in a previous post, I'm not comparing Murray to Kobe, just saying he has that scorer's mentality and seems like he will be a player that can be looked to for that go-to scoring. If you can't see that of him in his SECOND year at the age of just 20yo, you're blinded by your Jokic-'love .



Once again you show how short-sighted you are. Tell me what Pau did before he joined the Lakers....NOTHING. In fact, in his time in Memphis he never even lead the Grizz to a conference championship game let alone a division crow. You come across as he if was him who led the Lakers, he played his Scottie Pippen role well, but he still was supporting cast.

FWIW, I am not saying Jokic won't be a huge part in what happens with the Nuggets, but I'll wait until that happens before I

Gasol was probably better than Kobe on those title teams. You could easily make that argument anyway.

What, not in the playoffs ??? In 2009 Kobe bombed away for 32/5.5/7.4/1.5spg/1.4bpg to Pau's 18/9/2/1/2 while 2yrs younger than Kobe. In 2010, Kobe averaged 28/8/4/2stls to Pau's 18/11/3.5/2.5blks. Pau was more of a defensive, but hard to say outplayed Kobe in either year. How do you say Pau was better during those two playoff runs ??

That was peak Pau. He was one of the most underrated players of the decade. He was easily as valuable if not more valuable than Kobe those years. Those are just couting stats, I'm talking about impact on the game in terms of wins and losses. Pau was as good as they come defensively and back then the game wasn't a 3 point fest yet.


In the 2.5 seasons between Shaq and Pau the Lakers were collectively UNDER .500 in the regular season. Suddenly they get Pau and they win 2 titles and lose 1 in the finals to one of the all-time great title teams ('08 Celtics)

[TooBad]

I only see you degrading Jokic around here,

So calling him our best player is degrading him...... maybe I don't idolize him like you, but I do know talent when I see it.

Yes, I think what makes Jokic the team's best player is his full well-rounded game.

how he doesn't have the stats from the last year, his assists are down etc. Even though everyone knows by now that the offense from the last season is gone.

Facts are facts, you have a problem with that ??? You blame it all off on "the offense", but it could just as easily be that other teams are adjusting to Jokic's game, probably a bit of both, You just seem to want to deflect ANY and ALL blame from Jokic, that comes across as being very obvious in most all your posts. I try to look at things more objectively.

Jokic could have better number if he's involved more on the offensive end like the last season , we seen him having monster performances this year when he get enough touches, his assists would go up if his teammates would cut and move more.

I have no doubt his numbers would, but Jokic is such a humble player, HE defers when he should shoot, it's not like the coaches are on him to do it, he does it himself.

Sorry I don't see Murray being in the Kobe mold, not versatile enough also not that good in the clutch situations.

As I posted in a previous post, I'm not comparing Murray to Kobe, just saying he has that scorer's mentality and seems like he will be a player that can be looked to for that go-to scoring. If you can't see that of him in his SECOND year at the age of just 20yo, you're blinded by your Jokic-'love .

Once again Kobe put him on a pedestal like you. before Pau arrived via trade couldn't even propel his team to play offs , he was stuffing stats that's was about it.

Once again you show how short-sighted you are. Tell me what Pau did before he joined the Lakers....NOTHING. In fact, in his time in Memphis he never even lead the Grizz to a conference championship game let alone a division crow. You come across as he if was him who led the Lakers, he played his Scottie Pippen role well, but he still was supporting cast.

FWIW, I am not saying Jokic won't be a huge part in what happens with the Nuggets, but I'll wait until that happens before I

Gasol was probably better than Kobe on those title teams. You could easily make that argument anyway.

In the playoffs (championship years) Kobe had PERs of 26.8 and 24.7 vs Gasol 21.9 and 24.0. Kobe also had USG 32.9 and 33.2 vs Gasol 18.8 and 21.0. There was no doubt that Kobe was the first option and "best player on either of those teams" despite being 2 years older than Gasol. Both Kobe and Gasol were very good defensively as well.

[skywalker33]

Gasol was probably better than Kobe on those title teams. You could easily make that argument anyway.

What, not in the playoffs ??? In 2009 Kobe bombed away for 32/5.5/7.4/1.5spg/1.4bpg to Pau's 18/9/2/1/2 while 2yrs younger than Kobe. In 2010, Kobe averaged 28/8/4/2stls to Pau's 18/11/3.5/2.5blks. Pau was more of a defensive, but hard to say outplayed Kobe in either year. How do you say Pau was better during those two playoff runs ??

That was peak Pau. He was one of the most underrated players of the decade. He was easily as valuable if not more valuable than Kobe those years. Those are just couting stats, I'm talking about impact on the game in terms of wins and losses. Pau was as good as they come defensively and back then the game wasn't a 3 point fest yet.


In the 2.5 seasons between Shaq and Pau the Lakers were collectively UNDER .500 in the regular season. Suddenly they get Pau and they win 2 titles and lose 1 in the finals to one of the all-time great title teams ('08 Celtics)

As I've tried to point out to Mickey8, it does take a TEAM to win, both players we instrumental to the titles. However, just as Jordan needed Pippen to take it to the next level, that was the role Pau took. I also acknowledged that Pau's defensive presence to be factored in. However, it was Kobe who won playoff MVP in BOTH playoff seasons

And yet nobody addresses my point, What did Pau do in Memphis ?? Did he win ANYTHING there ? Did he carry the Grizz to any championships ?? Did he even carry MEM to a division title ??? NO.

[TooBad]

Gasol was probably better than Kobe on those title teams. You could easily make that argument anyway.

What, not in the playoffs ??? In 2009 Kobe bombed away for 32/5.5/7.4/1.5spg/1.4bpg to Pau's 18/9/2/1/2 while 2yrs younger than Kobe. In 2010, Kobe averaged 28/8/4/2stls to Pau's 18/11/3.5/2.5blks. Pau was more of a defensive, but hard to say outplayed Kobe in either year. How do you say Pau was better during those two playoff runs ??

That was peak Pau. He was one of the most underrated players of the decade. He was easily as valuable if not more valuable than Kobe those years. Those are just couting stats, I'm talking about impact on the game in terms of wins and losses. Pau was as good as they come defensively and back then the game wasn't a 3 point fest yet.


In the 2.5 seasons between Shaq and Pau the Lakers were collectively UNDER .500 in the regular season. Suddenly they get Pau and they win 2 titles and lose 1 in the finals to one of the all-time great title teams ('08 Celtics)

There aren't many players who can win on their own no body is arguing that. Gasol was a great player but he wasn't the best player on those teams. Look at the first championship in Miami for Wade, he was the best player on that team but he still needed an out of prime Shaq to win.

[HoopsMalone]

So calling him our best player is degrading him...... maybe I don't idolize him like you, but I do know talent when I see it.





Facts are facts, you have a problem with that ??? You blame it all off on "the offense", but it could just as easily be that other teams are adjusting to Jokic's game, probably a bit of both, You just seem to want to deflect ANY and ALL blame from Jokic, that comes across as being very obvious in most all your posts. I try to look at things more objectively.



I have no doubt his numbers would, but Jokic is such a humble player, HE defers when he should shoot, it's not like the coaches are on him to do it, he does it himself.



As I posted in a previous post, I'm not comparing Murray to Kobe, just saying he has that scorer's mentality and seems like he will be a player that can be looked to for that go-to scoring. If you can't see that of him in his SECOND year at the age of just 20yo, you're blinded by your Jokic-'love .



Once again you show how short-sighted you are. Tell me what Pau did before he joined the Lakers....NOTHING. In fact, in his time in Memphis he never even lead the Grizz to a conference championship game let alone a division crow. You come across as he if was him who led the Lakers, he played his Scottie Pippen role well, but he still was supporting cast.

FWIW, I am not saying Jokic won't be a huge part in what happens with the Nuggets, but I'll wait until that happens before I

Gasol was probably better than Kobe on those title teams. You could easily make that argument anyway.

In the playoffs (championship years) Kobe had PERs of 26.8 and 24.7 vs Gasol 21.9 and 24.0. Kobe also had USG 32.9 and 33.2 vs Gasol 18.8 and 21.0. There was no doubt that Kobe was the first option and "best player on either of those teams" despite being 2 years older than Gasol. Both Kobe and Gasol were very good defensively as well.

You are confusing being the #1 option with being the best player.

if a guy scores 20 and 10 at elite efficiency and is an elite defender he can easily be better than a guy who just shoots a lot

Citing PER is irrelevant as it does not correlate to wins/losses impact

[skywalker33]

Gasol was probably better than Kobe on those title teams. You could easily make that argument anyway.

In the playoffs (championship years) Kobe had PERs of 26.8 and 24.7 vs Gasol 21.9 and 24.0. Kobe also had USG 32.9 and 33.2 vs Gasol 18.8 and 21.0. There was no doubt that Kobe was the first option and "best player on either of those teams" despite being 2 years older than Gasol. Both Kobe and Gasol were very good defensively as well.

You are confusing being the #1 option with being the best player.

if a guy scores 20 and 10 at elite efficiency and is an elite defender he can easily be better than a guy who just shoots a lot

Citing PER is irrelevant as it does not correlate to wins/losses impact

Well, how do you prove your assessment Pau was better ??? Pau's shooting range was within 17ft, you're are definitely going to have a higher efficiency than you would taking more shots from 20-30ft out than you would from 5-17ft out......Pau was 7fter and blocked more shots, Kobe was more agile SG and had more steals, both defensive stats on different spectrums. Can you bring anything more specific to support your claim ??

[HoopsMalone]

What, not in the playoffs ??? In 2009 Kobe bombed away for 32/5.5/7.4/1.5spg/1.4bpg to Pau's 18/9/2/1/2 while 2yrs younger than Kobe. In 2010, Kobe averaged 28/8/4/2stls to Pau's 18/11/3.5/2.5blks. Pau was more of a defensive, but hard to say outplayed Kobe in either year. How do you say Pau was better during those two playoff runs ??

That was peak Pau. He was one of the most underrated players of the decade. He was easily as valuable if not more valuable than Kobe those years. Those are just couting stats, I'm talking about impact on the game in terms of wins and losses. Pau was as good as they come defensively and back then the game wasn't a 3 point fest yet.


In the 2.5 seasons between Shaq and Pau the Lakers were collectively UNDER .500 in the regular season. Suddenly they get Pau and they win 2 titles and lose 1 in the finals to one of the all-time great title teams ('08 Celtics)

As I've tried to point out to Mickey8, it does take a TEAM to win, both players we instrumental to the titles. However, just as Jordan needed Pippen to take it to the next level, that was the role Pau took. I also acknowledged that Pau's defensive presence to be factored in. However, it was Kobe who won playoff MVP in BOTH playoff seasons

And yet nobody addresses my point, What did Pau do in Memphis ?? Did he win ANYTHING there ? Did he carry the Grizz to any championships ?? Did he even carry MEM to a division title ??? NO.

Kobe couldn't go .500 without Shaq or Pau.

How was Pau supposed to win? Did you see what he had around him in Memphis? They actually had pretty solid results given their lack of talent.

[skywalker33]

That was peak Pau. He was one of the most underrated players of the decade. He was easily as valuable if not more valuable than Kobe those years. Those are just couting stats, I'm talking about impact on the game in terms of wins and losses. Pau was as good as they come defensively and back then the game wasn't a 3 point fest yet.


In the 2.5 seasons between Shaq and Pau the Lakers were collectively UNDER .500 in the regular season. Suddenly they get Pau and they win 2 titles and lose 1 in the finals to one of the all-time great title teams ('08 Celtics)

As I've tried to point out to Mickey8, it does take a TEAM to win, both players we instrumental to the titles. However, just as Jordan needed Pippen to take it to the next level, that was the role Pau took. I also acknowledged that Pau's defensive presence to be factored in. However, it was Kobe who won playoff MVP in BOTH playoff seasons

And yet nobody addresses my point, What did Pau do in Memphis ?? Did he win ANYTHING there ? Did he carry the Grizz to any championships ?? Did he even carry MEM to a division title ??? NO.

Kobe couldn't go .500 without Shaq or Pau.

How was Pau supposed to win? Did you see what he had around him in Memphis? They actually had pretty solid results given their lack of talent.

Did you see what Kobe had around him going .500 ??

[HoopsMalone]

As I've tried to point out to Mickey8, it does take a TEAM to win, both players we instrumental to the titles. However, just as Jordan needed Pippen to take it to the next level, that was the role Pau took. I also acknowledged that Pau's defensive presence to be factored in. However, it was Kobe who won playoff MVP in BOTH playoff seasons

And yet nobody addresses my point, What did Pau do in Memphis ?? Did he win ANYTHING there ? Did he carry the Grizz to any championships ?? Did he even carry MEM to a division title ??? NO.

Kobe couldn't go .500 without Shaq or Pau.

How was Pau supposed to win? Did you see what he had around him in Memphis? They actually had pretty solid results given their lack of talent.

Did you see what Kobe had around him going .500 ??

It wasn't a good team but Lebron would have won 55-60 games with it. That much we know. People just underestimate his impact so much.

[TooBad]

Gasol was probably better than Kobe on those title teams. You could easily make that argument anyway.

In the playoffs (championship years) Kobe had PERs of 26.8 and 24.7 vs Gasol 21.9 and 24.0. Kobe also had USG 32.9 and 33.2 vs Gasol 18.8 and 21.0. There was no doubt that Kobe was the first option and "best player on either of those teams" despite being 2 years older than Gasol. Both Kobe and Gasol were very good defensively as well.

You are confusing being the #1 option with being the best player.

if a guy scores 20 and 10 at elite efficiency and is an elite defender he can easily be better than a guy who just shoots a lot

Citing PER is irrelevant as it does not correlate to wins/losses impact

In the 2009 NBA Finals
Kobe averaged 32.4 pts 5.6 reb 7.4 Asts 1.4 Stl 1.4 Blk
Gasol averaged 18.6 pts 9.2 rebs 2.2 asts .8 stl 1.8 blk

Finals MVP Kobe

In the 2010 NBA Finals
Kobe averaged 28.6 pts 8 reb 3.9 asts 2.1 stl 0.7 blk
Gasol averaged 18.6 pts 11.6 rebs 3.7 asts 0.7 stl 2.6 blk

Finals MVP Kobe

In the finals Kobe was close to averaging double doubles in both Ast (2009) and Rebounding (2010) and his role was to score. Kobe also used to draw double teams consistently throughout the playoffs leaving guys like Gasol wide open. Double teams are something that many forget to consider when comparing stats. Kobe made his team better just from drawing these double teams. Imagine if Gasol had two guys on him every time he took a shot (his numbers wouldn't look so good anymore).

The video below at 3:26 is an example of how Kobe's double teams helped Gasol.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=206&v=fF4Lv_zh4Vk

[TooBad]

That was peak Pau. He was one of the most underrated players of the decade. He was easily as valuable if not more valuable than Kobe those years. Those are just couting stats, I'm talking about impact on the game in terms of wins and losses. Pau was as good as they come defensively and back then the game wasn't a 3 point fest yet.


In the 2.5 seasons between Shaq and Pau the Lakers were collectively UNDER .500 in the regular season. Suddenly they get Pau and they win 2 titles and lose 1 in the finals to one of the all-time great title teams ('08 Celtics)

As I've tried to point out to Mickey8, it does take a TEAM to win, both players we instrumental to the titles. However, just as Jordan needed Pippen to take it to the next level, that was the role Pau took. I also acknowledged that Pau's defensive presence to be factored in. However, it was Kobe who won playoff MVP in BOTH playoff seasons

And yet nobody addresses my point, What did Pau do in Memphis ?? Did he win ANYTHING there ? Did he carry the Grizz to any championships ?? Did he even carry MEM to a division title ??? NO.

Kobe couldn't go .500 without Shaq or Pau.

How was Pau supposed to win? Did you see what he had around him in Memphis? They actually had pretty solid results given their lack of talent.

You expected Kobe to be able to win on his own a few posts back what's the difference?

[HoopsMalone]

As I've tried to point out to Mickey8, it does take a TEAM to win, both players we instrumental to the titles. However, just as Jordan needed Pippen to take it to the next level, that was the role Pau took. I also acknowledged that Pau's defensive presence to be factored in. However, it was Kobe who won playoff MVP in BOTH playoff seasons

And yet nobody addresses my point, What did Pau do in Memphis ?? Did he win ANYTHING there ? Did he carry the Grizz to any championships ?? Did he even carry MEM to a division title ??? NO.

Kobe couldn't go .500 without Shaq or Pau.

How was Pau supposed to win? Did you see what he had around him in Memphis? They actually had pretty solid results given their lack of talent.

You expected Kobe to be able to win on his own a few posts back what's the difference?

It just goes to show Pau was every bit as good as Kobe. And he was. Clearly.

[NuggetsWY]

Jokic is the topic - not Gasol or Kobe - this thread is done.