Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 4

[TOO]

Saberestar has a great idea here. Napier can do it all, he's like a PG version of Devin Booker. And by that i mean 3pt, passing, mid range and the ability to take it to the cup. The Blazers cannot afford to keep him nor do they have the playing time being that they have CJ and dame. I say we throw a first or two their way and see what he's got for the rest of the season.

Better.

[Saberestar]

Saberestar has a great idea here. Napier can do it all, he's like a PG version of Devin Booker. And by that i mean 3pt, passing, mid range and the ability to take it to the cup. The Blazers cannot afford to keep him nor do they have the playing time being that they have CJ and dame. I say we throw a first or two their way and see what he's got for the rest of the season.

Better.

Well, I would not offer too much for him right now because he is gonna be a RFA next season. Probably the Mil first at most.

I think he is an upgrade over Ulis and Canaan...but both of our PGs can improve over the season...IDK.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

I am not giving up a 1st for Napier. No way.

[Blackification]

I feel like the general consensus is that we should draft a PG with our pick this year. With Knight still available should we handle our need at the C position instead? I pretty much look at our starting PG and C positions and see a hole as far as a player that will serve as a starter with our timeline. Len won't cut it, neither will alan williams, and this draft seems to be filled with more talent at the big man positions. I also don't see Bender being a starting Center.

[NavLDO]

So, continuing a thought from one of the game threads, I believe, and based upon the evidence, we have two players that are easily ranked in the top 5-7 at their respective positions in the way of production in Warren and Booker.

Funny, because on the Dunc'd on pod a few weeks ago, they didn't list TJ in the top, like, 30 or so small forwards. My ears got hot listening to that ****.

They also said Booker wasn't one of the top 10 under 23 players in the NBA. Crazy.

Dunc'd On is such trash. I used to enjoy listening to those guys but it just sounds like such elitist garbage now. They say every PF should be a C and every SF should be a PF. They said Johnathan Isaac was "clearly" the best forward prospect from last year's draft. They said Booker doesn't help win games. They say every contract that isn't a veteran minimum is a massive overpay. It's just a circle jerk at this point with Danny and Nate.

Isaac may very well be the best Forward when it's all said and done. That's fine; they are entitled to their opinion. But based on what, exactly?? In what regard or facet of the game, because Tatum is leaving every rookie in the dust right now, offensively. Of course, he's not mired in mediocrity surrounding him for the majority of the season, like a lot of the higher selected rookies are, or, as in the case of both Isaac and Jackson, stuck behind solid NBA starters. The Orlando Magic already have Aaron Gordon and Hezonja at their 4 and 3 spots, respectively...and now Isaac is dealing with a tweaked ankle.

We, of course, have Warren standing in JJ's way, and thus Jackson can not get developed 'properly' by starting/playing 25-30 MPG. If we sit Warren to do this, then we are really shutting down a guy who I believe, again, is one of the top at his position; how do you justify that?

This is why I am SOOO against taking the BPA in the NBA draft...UNLESS, you counterbalance it by trading the player currently in the position you just drafted. If we decide to keep JJ in favor of Warren, then so be it. I think it would be unwise, but at least it makes more sense than thinking you can develop JJ properly whilst starting Warren, which has me thinking...continued new post...

[NavLDO]

Continued from my earlier post...

What if McD has this 'grand master plan' of an all-22-and-under-starter-team that he desires to implement next season, and he's waiting to 'pounce until the off-season, then maybe he decides to implement, at worst:

Ulis / Booker / JJ / Bender / Chriss

...but with the hope of using Warren, the 'whenever it happens' MIL 1st, and MIA '21 1st, and any other asset not named above or already (Chandler, Sauce, Daniels, Dudley) to improve our selection spot for ours, or Miami's, 2018 1st, to get us the PG and Center we so desperately need, then so be it. You go on with your-bad-self, McD, and make it happen, to ensure we have a team that grows together and is no more than 2-3 years apart from each other in the age department.

That would be taking a step backward to move forward, I guess, and I still think he'd need to commit to trade, heck, let's switch it up for once, let's say Bender, this time...neither of the two are 'great' right now, but both have too much potential to relegate to a bench position this early in their career. Ulis is likely a career bench PG, however.

So that would be Warren + Bender + at least, the '21 Miami Unprotected 1st. Assuming those 3 packaged move us into the top 3, right? McD takes Doncic to be our starting PG, or Trae Young, if he is the better choice, whatever...then takes say, McCoy with Miami's pick, and we roll out...

Doncic / Booker / JJ / Chriss / McCoy

next year...

Have I covered all eventualities yet? All possible or potential scenarios McD may employ in our attempted rise in greatness?

I guess, there is always the .00001% chance he sells Booker, Warren, JJ, Bender, Chriss, our pick, plus the 3 extra picks we own for 5 new Vets, but he wouldn't do that, right??

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

I feel like the general consensus is that we should draft a PG with our pick this year. With Knight still available should we handle our need at the C position instead? I pretty much look at our starting PG and C positions and see a hole as far as a player that will serve as a starter with our timeline. Len won't cut it, neither will alan williams, and this draft seems to be filled with more talent at the big man positions. I also don't see Bender being a starting Center.

It is a very good point to note that there is a lot of C talent in this draft, and that should be the case whether our top pick is #1 or #14. I agree that Bender is not a starting center.

[sunsbum]

Has anyone actually watched Napier? I doubt it.

[NTB]

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[jcsunsfan]

Yeah the Boogie Train has left the station after Bledsoe jettisoned himself off the Suns lol

I don’t buy this for a minute. The Bledsoe thing was totally mercenary and not personal. I think every player in the league knows it. If Cousins was convinced this was his best career move, he would be here.

I doubt he will be here but I think Bledsoe will have nothing to do with it.

NBA players treat this as a business, not just buddy pettiness.

[NavLDO]

My worst Knightmare...

http://www.tankathon.com/mock_draft

What?!?! That we get a sorely needed PG with our 2018 1st; one that was widely regarded as the best 'true' PG prospect coming into the season?

I know what you are saying, but until these guys get into the league, you never know what coaching can do for them; he might turn out ok, and TBH, with Booker turning ever so much ore into a SG with 'combo-guard-like' skills...look what Booker's pre-draft profile said about him...

There are also some question marks about Booker's ball-handling ability and how prolific of a shot-creator he will become at the NBA level. Most 3-pointers in today's NBA game come off an assist, and to fully take advantage of Booker's terrific stroke, he will have to be on a team that can manufacture good looks for him. Booker mostly stayed in his lane at Kentucky and played the role he was asked to, which is likely similar to what he will do in the NBA. He was only charted for four isolation possessions all season at Kentucky, and is unlikely to be someone that is asked to shoulder a very heavy load offensively at the next level either.

- Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Devin-Booker-7216/ ©DraftExpress

So, just as I no longer take too much stock into pre-draft hype as I used to, I also no longer take too much stock into pre-draft 'profiling', outside of the obvious (6' PGs not being particularly adept at Rebounds, or 7'2" Centers being particularly adept at ball-handling and creativity. Not impossible, just less likely than more likely to be true.

Anyway, you never know. Sexton may come into the league a willing and active learner who isn't all about himself. Here are some good nuggets from his profile:

Competes defensively. Can really sit down and slide. Active hands. Not afraid to defend with physicality. -Although more of a score-first point guard, he showcased his vision throughout Hoop Summit practices and games. Can deliver the ball from different angles. Passes over the top in pick and roll with his left hand. Good in drive and dish situations. Still developing as a pure point guard but certainly has vision. -Has the mental makeup of a player who will maximize his potential

- Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Collin-Sexton-91232/ ©DraftExpress

...but as you fear, with good, comes the bad...

Wild driving into traffic. Very turnover prone at times. Will hoist up contested jumpers early in the clock. Score-first guard. Flash over substance passer. Still has room to polish his point guard skills.

- Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Collin-Sexton-91232/ ©DraftExpress

But again, as we've seen with Booker. Pre-draft profiles are often incorrect. They even got a couple things wrong with Warren...

...but his very poor defensive rebounding rate at the college level could make that difficult at times if he doesn't make a more concerted effort here. He only pulls down 4.4 defensive rebounds per-40 (last year 3.1), which ranks extremely poorly for a PF prospect, and still below average for a SF.

- Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/T.J.-Warren-6436/ ©DraftExpress

While I wouldn't say he's necessarily 'prolific', I wouldn't call him substandard in this area either. Where they got it DEAD wrong was with Chriss...

Where that tends to show up the most vividly right now is as on the defensive glass. At 4.1 rebounds per-40, Chriss ranks among the least prolific power forwards in NBA Draft history according to our database. Among first round picks, only Thaddeus Young (who played mostly SF in college) had a worse defensive rebounding rate in the draft's last 30 years. Chriss almost never puts a body on opposing big men in an attempt to box out and prepare for loose balls coming off the glass, and his relatively small standing reach (measured at 8'9, comparable with most small forwards) didn't help matters much. In addition to his instincts, his motor here leaves a lot to be desired as well, as if at times appears he's operating at half speed, and far more focused on his work on the offensive end.

- Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Marquese-Chriss-83240/ ©DraftExpress

Now look at this...

https://www.boxscoregeeks.com/players/compare?direction=desc&player_ids%5B%5D=1477&player_ids%5B%5D=2&player_ids%5B%5D=215&player_ids%5B%5D=1520&player_ids%5B%5D=328&player_ids%5B%5D=1272&player_ids%5B%5D=174&player_ids%5B%5D=3013&player_ids%5B%5D=322&player_ids%5B%5D=3216&player_ids%5B%5D=521&player_ids%5B%5D=3076&player_ids%5B%5D=3285&player_ids%5B%5D=273&player_ids%5B%5D=530&player_ids%5B%5D=498&player_ids%5B%5D=3177&player_ids%5B%5D=9&player_ids%5B%5D=239&player_ids%5B%5D=230&player_ids%5B%5D=35&player_ids%5B%5D=259&player_ids%5B%5D=433&season=2017&sort=per48_defensive_rebounds&utf8=%E2%9C%93

That's not all PFs...and here is DRR, that shows him to be more in the top 3rd, rather than 5th...but 14 of those top 27 with ties are not starters, which pits him squarely in the middle of the league

http://insider.espn.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/pf/sort/defReboundRate

But look where they WERE correct...Thad Young, LOL...

All that to say...don't believe everything you read before the draft; prospects often change once in the NBA. I mean, read that profile on Chriss again. He was supposed to be, like, the worst defensive rebounding 1st Round Draft Pick PF in the history of the NBA, and yet?? Yeah, not so much. He's your every day, average, run-of-the-mill Defensive Rebounding NBA PF.

[NavLDO]

Marquise Chriss has rehabbed his market value in two games. TJ Warren's market value is very high. I think JJ's is still high as well. We need a pg. Young is the guy we need. Then we can resign Len (or even Monroe) and I think we will be ready to compete for a playoff spot.

We have these assets to move up to get Young.

1. Suns 2018 first, Suns future firsts.
2. Miami first, future Miami first, Milwaukee first.
3. Any two of TJ Warren, Marquese Chriss, Josh Jackson, Dragan Bender.
4. Many second round picks.

This sounds crazy, but I would be willing to move Josh Jackson to move up to get Young. It seems like a high price to pay, and even in the end it might seem a lopsided trade but what matters most is the team we have when it is done.

Yes, yes, yes! That is all that matters...ok, well not all that matters. You don't give up stuff for free, but you don't quibble over a 2nd or 1st Rd pick, if that's what it takes.

I don't even care if it's Young, Sexton, Doncic, a or a Vet Trade (so long as it's the player McD targeted because he thought this particular player was bets for us,AND the player is 28YO or younger.

But we have all the pieces we need to get which ever player/prospect McD wants, IMO--even Doncic. But if we don't, then no need to panic. Get prospect #2, because we still need a stud Center...OR, we trade stud Center for whichever other PG we want, but there is not excuse to have:

2 X 2018 1sts, a likely 2020 1st, and Unprotected 2021 1st plus Warren, JJ, Bender, and Chriss, and not walk away with any player we want not named LeBron, Curry, Durant, Harden, Westbrook, and a handful of others, but certainly, just about any prospect. If I was a GM building a team, and McD came to me and offered the most recent #4 overall pick...the former #1 RSCI or a 19/6 SF under contract for $12.5M per for the next 4 years. Then he also offered a mid-Lottery pick, a mid-teens pick, an unprotected pick in 3 years, and a developing 20YO PF, plus a seasoned SF/PF and/or Center, if I want it...all for ONE pick; then I tell him he needs to also take a bad contract, and he agrees, then I subsequently turned him down? I should be fired.

Anyway, time is over for collecting assets. They have been collected; time to cash in the assets and put the team together and put this proud franchise back where it belongs; no reason to suffer any longer...absolutely no reason at all...

[Mulhollanddrive]

Chriss has gone from 10% to 20% Defensive Rebound Rate from college to current NBA season.

Which means literally double the available defensive rebounds improvement in 2 years.

[NTB]

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[Mulhollanddrive]

Which position is more important for us to get a star player at PG or C?

[jcsunsfan]

Which position is more important for us to get a star player at PG or C?

pg

[bwgood77]

Which position is more important for us to get a star player at PG or C?

pg

If people must pigeon hole everyone into positions, I would say PG too, but we basically just need a star period, but we desperately need shooting. But really if players can be versatile you just want as many as possible that can do some or all of the following things at a high level: Shoot, playmake/pass, defend, block shots - and its almost a necessity to have a high bbiq, and of course to have drive, dedication and work hard.

No one would have ever looked at Draymond Green, for example, as a C, but he plays C a ton, and he leads the team in assists, but he also has extreme length allowing him to block a ton of shots and defend multiple positions.

But considering the things I mentioned, and needing shooters/passers, is why I would put Doncic and Young at the top of the draft list. They have the high iq, can both shoot and pass. Young is a premier shooter and passer and other things.

While it would be nice to get a great big at the top, they would not have as much impact imo unless they are a premier shot blocker off the bat. I would probably put Ayton slightly over Bamba because I think he is more of a sure thing, I think Bamba could potentially have more initial impact if his defense immediately translates. I'll take his blocks and premier defense and switch ability, etc, over a C who just scores and rebounds. Though Ayton may eventually be somewhat like Embiid with perhaps a 3 pt shot.

I'll have to look more at some of the other Cs though like Jaren Jackson, especially since he is so young. Tom Izzo coached players seem to often do well in the NBA, particularly considering where they were drafted (Draymond Green, Gary Harris), so even though Jackson is rated fairly highly, he may still be under the radar a little bit, and his dad played with Duncan and Robinson...not that it means a lot, but he's obviously probably been watching and perhaps studying basketball since he was little. My guess is he will likely have great fundamentals. And of course Porter, if he checks out physically is almost a guy you can't pass up if you are there at 5 or 6 with these guys gone...or at least based on his rep you can't....but then again you never know for sure without seeing him against college competition (and then I guess you often still don't know).

McD better just do a damn good job in this draft regardless of where our picks land.

[RaisingArizona]

PG is just a much more important position than C. They get the whole offense organized and on track.

[bwgood77]

Yeah the Boogie Train has left the station after Bledsoe jettisoned himself off the Suns lol

I don’t buy this for a minute. The Bledsoe thing was totally mercenary and not personal. I think every player in the league knows it. If Cousins was convinced this was his best career move, he would be here.

I doubt he will be here but I think Bledsoe will have nothing to do with it.

NBA players treat this as a business, not just buddy pettiness.

I doubt he would come here and my guess is he would talk to his nba friends about where he is signing and Bledsoe is one of those guys. I doubt he would think "They screwed over Bledsoe so I'm not signing there" but I'm sure if he was considering Phx he would ask Bledsoe and Bledsoe may talk well about some teammates but I doubt he says many good things about the front office or ownership.

Anyway, if he's all about the money and we offered the most, he might consider it, but I imagine he will get max offers from more than one or two places, and will look elsewhere.

I don't care much though. He's obviously not a winner. He leads the league in turnovers and fouls. You know how hard it is to lead the league in turnovers when Harden and Westbrook are in the league? Pretty hard. He has like 24 or 25 more turnovers than Harden.

I'm ready for this team to win. Cousins doesn't lead to a team consistently doing that. I'd be cautiously excited if we got him, sure, but I wouldn't be sure it was the best move, kind of like when we traded Marion for Shaq.

[TOO]

Has anyone actually watched Napier? I doubt it.

Have you watched Napier? He's been a bum for 3 years, now 30 games into year 4 and he's turning into a decent back up PG you wanna move a 1st round pick for him? Good grief.