So... what's the solution?

[darthmerrick]

So I'm like keep Gordon, Isaac and Simmons. But not going to be mad if we trade any of them to improve.
Fournier, Elf and Vuc all need to go! They've been part of the losing too long. Need non losers in here. Trade what you can and start over.

[Skin]

So... what's the solution?

1) Get Isaac in the starting line up. Let's try him exclusively at SF. Let's use the rest of the season to see if he can show flashes of doing it.

2) Make a trade or trades that will create new openings for leadership, ship off bad contracts and try to get another pick in this draft.

3) Draft Trae Young.

Trade Idea:

ORL gets: Demarcus Cousins, Rajon Rondo, Omer Asik
NOR gets: Nik Vucevic, Evan Fournier, Elfrid Payton

The Davis/Cousins combo is what the Magic would've been like if they drafted Chris Webber to play next to Shaq. Intriguing in thought, but bad in practice. Davis has the ability to offset Vuc's woes on defense and NOR won't lose too much on the offensive end. In fact, they will get much better balance. Between Vuc and the addition of Fournier, NOR start to put together a much more cohesive and functional team. It sounds weird coming out of my mouth considering my distaste for those 2... but put it this way. If we had Jrue and AD on the Magic, I highly doubt that I would be bashing Evan and Nik as much as I do. Plus, between Evan's French ties and Eflrid's Lousiana ties, I bet they would be instant fan favorites!

I often flip flop on my like/dislike for Cousins, but in this instance, I'm not losing anything I don't already want to get rid of and we get half a season to watch how this plays out. If I see enough good signs that this has the potential to work, I'm using his Bird Rights and locking him up with a max contract. If not, we get plenty of cap space. Cousins and Rondo are both expiring. Asik would still have 2 more seasons at $10M, but these days, that's backup money anyways. He's a necessary evil to get the trade done.


PG Rondo / Trae Young
SG Simmons / Ross
SF Isaac / Iwundu
PF Gordon / 2nd Rounder
C Cousins / Speights

We get our Alpha star in Cousins, 2 young studs in Gordon/Isaac and a backcourt with championship experience and the next "Steph Curry"

Great plan

Pj Washington from Kentucky as 2nd rounder for pf

I don't think of leadership when I hear Cousins name and I'm not a fan of, again, trading for a star just so they leave the next season. Imo that's part of what got us here in the first place. NOBODY is going to re sign here when there are teams like LA with money. It will not happen.
I'd rather them go after young players like Malcom Brogdon for example. He's struggling coming off the bench for Milwaukee and they could use the services of. Vuc or Evan who would easily elevate their status. Utah has some young guys, I don't actually know if they'd want to trade any of them but you get what I'm trying to say.

Cousins isn't a leader, he won't re sign here, and he'd generate too many wins for a proper tank. I'd rather collect young assets that would keep us competitive but ultimately tank properly.

Hopefully by now the people that alsway say "tanking doesn't work" also realize that standing around waiting for a miracle does t either. They need to take action and imo that's blowing this up, bring in young talent, and lose as many games as possible.

That's true. I don't see him as a leader, but I also don't see him as a problem amongst his teammates or with the city he plays for. I also don't see him as a player that gives up. Even on losing teams this dude gives his all. Bigger problem is, I don't have the greatest confidence that NOR would take that package of players for Boogie unless he said he wanted out.

[WeAreVenom]

One thing I will say......Management does seem to keep the pulse of the fanbase. I remember when we made that massive trade centered Rashard Lewis and Gilbert Arenas, we had been screaming for a change and I really get the feeling that they knew. Hopefully they see that we are ok with losing Vuc and tanking for the season. This season is already a wash in my eyes, making the playoffs as a 6th-8th seed means absolutely nothing to me.

[purpleswordfish]

I'm still a bit hopeful the new management can salvage the situation. I remind myself that they got hired in the summer and didn't have an opportunity to really prepare for the offseason. If I were running the team, I'd treat this roster like an expansion team. It really isn't far from that, in my opinion. I'd try to find the few pieces that you could potentially see as rotation players and build around that. Everyone else would be on the table at the deadline for anything of any worth. This team isn't making the playoffs this season, so you might as well sell off anything not bolted down if you're not going to use it in the future.

In addition, I'd try to pick up players that are low risk/high reward through various means (Eurostash 2nd rounders, undrafted free agents, young guys that fall out of good teams' rotations) at fair prices. A lot of times, those players can accelerate a team's growth from a lottery team to a playoff team and don't carry cap implications.

Finally, I'd be really careful with giving out long-term deals to some of the younger players on the roster hitting RFA. I still think Payton and Gordon can be part of a good Magic squad in the future...but, if you're the Magic you don't want to pay them superstar money. Those are going to be some really tough decisions for the Magic.

[Blue_and_Whte]

I'm still a bit hopeful the new management can salvage the situation. I remind myself that they got hired in the summer and didn't have an opportunity to really prepare for the offseason. If I were running the team, I'd treat this roster like an expansion team. It really isn't far from that, in my opinion. I'd try to find the few pieces that you could potentially see as rotation players and build around that. Everyone else would be on the table at the deadline for anything of any worth. This team isn't making the playoffs this season, so you might as well sell off anything not bolted down if you're not going to use it in the future.

In addition, I'd try to pick up players that are low risk/high reward through various means (Eurostash 2nd rounders, undrafted free agents, young guys that fall out of good teams' rotations) at fair prices. A lot of times, those players can accelerate a team's growth from a lottery team to a playoff team and don't carry cap implications.

Finally, I'd be really careful with giving out long-term deals to some of the younger players on the roster hitting RFA. I still think Payton and Gordon can be part of a good Magic squad in the future...but, if you're the Magic you don't want to pay them superstar money. Those are going to be some really tough decisions for the Magic.

I think Payton is a back up but at least he's stepping up in the absence of our starters which Nik also did but for some reason was a bad thing.... of course. The issue is that he coasts through large portions of the game and we saw that we were ok without him early on. Matter of fact some of our most impactful lineups don't include Payton, Pre and Post injuries.
https://stats.nba.com/lineups/advanced/?Season=2017-18&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612753

[purpleswordfish]

I'm still a bit hopeful the new management can salvage the situation. I remind myself that they got hired in the summer and didn't have an opportunity to really prepare for the offseason. If I were running the team, I'd treat this roster like an expansion team. It really isn't far from that, in my opinion. I'd try to find the few pieces that you could potentially see as rotation players and build around that. Everyone else would be on the table at the deadline for anything of any worth. This team isn't making the playoffs this season, so you might as well sell off anything not bolted down if you're not going to use it in the future.

In addition, I'd try to pick up players that are low risk/high reward through various means (Eurostash 2nd rounders, undrafted free agents, young guys that fall out of good teams' rotations) at fair prices. A lot of times, those players can accelerate a team's growth from a lottery team to a playoff team and don't carry cap implications.

Finally, I'd be really careful with giving out long-term deals to some of the younger players on the roster hitting RFA. I still think Payton and Gordon can be part of a good Magic squad in the future...but, if you're the Magic you don't want to pay them superstar money. Those are going to be some really tough decisions for the Magic.

I think Payton is a back up but at least he's stepping up in the absence of our starters which Nik also did but for some reason was a bad thing.... of course. The issue is that he coasts through large portions of the game and we saw that we were ok without him early on. Matter of fact some of our most impactful lineups don't include Payton, Pre and Post injuries.
https://stats.nba.com/lineups/advanced/?Season=2017-18&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612753

I really think Payton could be a tremendous first guard off the bench for a lot of teams. I mean that in a good way.

[Blue_and_Whte]

I'm still a bit hopeful the new management can salvage the situation. I remind myself that they got hired in the summer and didn't have an opportunity to really prepare for the offseason. If I were running the team, I'd treat this roster like an expansion team. It really isn't far from that, in my opinion. I'd try to find the few pieces that you could potentially see as rotation players and build around that. Everyone else would be on the table at the deadline for anything of any worth. This team isn't making the playoffs this season, so you might as well sell off anything not bolted down if you're not going to use it in the future.

In addition, I'd try to pick up players that are low risk/high reward through various means (Eurostash 2nd rounders, undrafted free agents, young guys that fall out of good teams' rotations) at fair prices. A lot of times, those players can accelerate a team's growth from a lottery team to a playoff team and don't carry cap implications.

Finally, I'd be really careful with giving out long-term deals to some of the younger players on the roster hitting RFA. I still think Payton and Gordon can be part of a good Magic squad in the future...but, if you're the Magic you don't want to pay them superstar money. Those are going to be some really tough decisions for the Magic.

I think Payton is a back up but at least he's stepping up in the absence of our starters which Nik also did but for some reason was a bad thing.... of course. The issue is that he coasts through large portions of the game and we saw that we were ok without him early on. Matter of fact some of our most impactful lineups don't include Payton, Pre and Post injuries.
https://stats.nba.com/lineups/advanced/?Season=2017-18&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612753

I really think Payton could be a tremendous first guard off the bench for a lot of teams. I mean that in a good way.

Correct. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. The problem is, when you hand young guys a starting job its likely they'd consider playing back up an insult.

[King Ken]

As a LP watcher, I can say, my biggest issue with Orlando is roster configuration and a lack of a starting PG. Payton is a fine backup but he has to play around a cast like GS to be effective with his style of play. I just don't feel Orlando meshes well. Vuc really don't mesh with any starter in the NBA outside of someone like Horford who can cover your ass on offense and defense. He's an impactful player, he's just a hard fit. Gordon is used correctly but I feel a more reasonable personnel grouping could see him be an All Star even this season. Evan F is a good fit with most NBA teams but why is he your #1 option is the question. Truth is, you still don't have one. Missing on D. Mitchell is painful for Orlando who could use that. J. Simmons was a great move but he's not really a starter unless you got better personnel. T. Ross was a good fit starting but sadly he got hurt. I like Issac but he's not ready yet. It's tough, Orlando has a ton of talent. I even see talent in Payton, Hezonja, and Biyombo but I don't see the fit being in Orlando for those players.

Personnel grouping is the issue I see in Orlando. When Lonzo is out for LA, I see the same but with even less talent.

Vuc is your best player, you put him in Boston and they are contending but his fit isn't Orlando either but then again, his fit isn't most teams. Maybe Boston, maybe GS but those are top tier NBA teams.

[Tarheel]

As a LP watcher, I can say, my biggest issue with Orlando is roster configuration and a lack of a starting PG. Payton is a fine backup but he has to play around a cast like GS to be effective with his style of play. I just don't feel Orlando meshes well. Vuc really don't mesh with any starter in the NBA outside of someone like Horford who can cover your ass on offense and defense. He's an impactful player, he's just a hard fit. Gordon is used correctly but I feel a more reasonable personnel grouping could see him be an All Star even this season. Evan F is a good fit with most NBA teams but why is he your #1 option is the question. Truth is, you still don't have one. Missing on D. Mitchell is painful for Orlando who could use that. J. Simmons was a great move but he's not really a starter unless you got better personnel. T. Ross was a good fit starting but sadly he got hurt. I like Issac but he's not ready yet. It's tough, Orlando has a ton of talent. I even see talent in Payton, Hezonja, and Biyombo but I don't see the fit being in Orlando for those players.

Personnel grouping is the issue I see in Orlando. When Lonzo is out for LA, I see the same but with even less talent.

Vuc is your best player, you put him in Boston and they are contending but his fit isn't Orlando either but then again, his fit isn't most teams. Maybe Boston, maybe GS but those are top tier NBA teams.

I agree with nearly all of what you've said here, with the exception of the Donovan Mitchell bit. He's showing out in Utah and looks like he's going to be a very good player, but I don't think the same would have happened here due to lack of opportunity.

Vogel doesn't like playing rookies much as a rule and we already have Evan, T-Ross and Simms at the wing spot. He may have got an opportunity with the injuries but wouldn't be at the level he is now had we drafted him.

Not drafting Dennis Smith hurts us more in the short-term IMO (although I still believe Isaac was the right pick as I don't think this team will be competitive short-term regardless).

I'm hoping we toss this season, trade Vuc (with a heavy heart) for youth and depth. I'd let Speights, Afflalo and Mack (don't pick up his option) walk in the offseason and sign Mario for the minimum (if he is open to coming back and for this price) as he's starting to show a pulse and I still think he has all the tools (and we now actually have a Player Development Program...), so it's a low risk move as we aren't likely to be good anytime soon. I like Evan at the 2 if he sorts the attitude out and isn't the first option. I'd like to see us draft Trae Young and keep Elf as the backup (as long as it's a reasonable contract).

I think we need to eat Biz and DJs contracts unfortunately (Biz especially would be too expensive to move, and despite his contract I love that he comes in and gives everything every night), but could go into next year looking something like this (there would be more depth from the Vuc trade but I don't want to speculate as to his value). There is flexibility here to trade EP or one of Evan/T-Ross/Simms if the right opportunities present themselves, and there is flexibility within the lineups to match up with different teams.

Young/Payton/DJ
Fournier/Simmons/Ross/Iwundu
Isaac/Ross/Mario/Iwundu
Gordon/Isaac/Mario
Biyombo/Birch

Gordon will be on the max (or close to), but the rest of the talent (that we want to keep) on the roster is on team friendly deals or rookie scale contracts. Then as the extension/RFA periods roll around for Isaac and Young Biyombo, Evan and DJ's contracts come off the books and we have some semblance of financial flexibility again. We won't be good for a while (unless Trae translates quickly) but I do think that roster (health permitting) could squeak into the playoffs and start moving us in the direction of a winning culture.

This was meant to be a short post but I ended up going full GM mode!