Game 38 : Sixers (16-19) at Suns (14-23), Sunday, Dec 31

[m1chal]

Warren with 26. You know what that means.

It looks like the rule is about to be broken...

[DaleyBlind]

Cant stand Embiid, massive flopper.

They just have more talent than us right now, plain and simple.

[Saberestar]

We have played a solid game, winnable game.

Saric played a terrific game, the guy knows to play.

[Saberestar]

Cant stand Embiid, massive flopper.

They just have more talent than us right now, plain and simple.

Not too much than us. We won the first matchup, and their record on the East is not good.

[DaleyBlind]

Cant stand Embiid, massive flopper.

They just have more talent than us right now, plain and simple.

Not too much than us. We won the first matchup, and their record on the East is not good.

DIsagree.

We have Booker and Warren who are legitimate quality players.

They have Simmons, Embiid, Reddick and Covignton

[Qwigglez]

Cant stand Embiid, massive flopper.

They just have more talent than us right now, plain and simple.

Not too much than us. We won the first matchup, and their record on the East is not good.

DIsagree.

We have Booker and Warren who are legitimate quality players.

They have Simmons, Embiid, Reddick and Covignton

Redick only signed with them because they offered him a 1-year deal for 20mil. Not sure if he stays with them, I guess it depends on the contract.

[Saberestar]

Cant stand Embiid, massive flopper.

They just have more talent than us right now, plain and simple.

Not too much than us. We won the first matchup, and their record on the East is not good.

DIsagree.

We have Booker and Warren who are legitimate quality players.

They have Simmons, Embiid, Reddick and Covignton

Covington??? I would say Saric, if you want to name their best players. Covington is too limited as a player.

Yeah, they have an slightly better roster, but with a good PG on our team we could be better than them. The difference is small.

[Qwigglez]

We have played a solid game, winnable game.

Saric played a terrific game, the guy knows to play.

I think Bender can play like Saric offensively. Defensively I think Bender can be a lot better. Didn't even realize Saric scored so efficiently.

[darealjuice]

Had front row seats tonight, was a good game but wish we had pulled it out. Saric killed us tonight, but that’s what happens when you nail almost every 3 you take. Book had a really quiet 32, he looked ready for NYE that first half. TJ had a solid game too, sucks we got our first loss with him scoring 25+ but the Sixers played a tough game tonight. Bender really needs to be aggressive, even Sixers fans at the game were saying he needs to shoot more. Quese played pretty well though, he had a few boneheaded mistakes but he left little doubt that he was playing hard. Josh could have had a decent game if he didn’t blow his first few layups, he really needs to get stronger around the rim.

[DaleyBlind]

Not too much than us. We won the first matchup, and their record on the East is not good.

DIsagree.

We have Booker and Warren who are legitimate quality players.

They have Simmons, Embiid, Reddick and Covignton

Covington??? I would say Saric, if you want to name their best players. Covington is too limited as a player.

Yeah, they have an slightly better roster, but with a good PG on our team we could be better than them. The difference is small.

Covington is an elite defensive player IMO. Saris has been poor this year.

[bwgood77]

DIsagree.

We have Booker and Warren who are legitimate quality players.

They have Simmons, Embiid, Reddick and Covignton

Covington??? I would say Saric, if you want to name their best players. Covington is too limited as a player.

Yeah, they have an slightly better roster, but with a good PG on our team we could be better than them. The difference is small.

Covington is an elite defensive player IMO. Saris has been poor this year.

Yeah, people don't realize how good Covington is. Check out his RPM. Not bad. http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM

Spoiler:

RPM: Player's estimated on-court impact on team performance, measured in net point differential per 100 offensive and defensive possessions. RPM takes into account teammates, opponents and additional factors

[NavLDO]

Covington??? I would say Saric, if you want to name their best players. Covington is too limited as a player.

Yeah, they have an slightly better roster, but with a good PG on our team we could be better than them. The difference is small.

Covington is an elite defensive player IMO. Saris has been poor this year.

Yeah, people don't realize how good Covington is. Check out his RPM. Not bad. http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM

Spoiler:

RPM: Player's estimated on-court impact on team performance, measured in net point differential per 100 offensive and defensive possessions. RPM takes into account teammates, opponents and additional factors

He definitely deserves props for coming in from nowhere and making a name for himself...and getting himself a nice contract, but we still have the better player, and better deal, in Warren, IMO.

As you showed, "RPM takes into account teammates, opponents and additional factors"...well, while Covington is playing with Embiid, Simmons, Redick and Saric...Warren is playing with Booker, Chandler, Chriss, and Ulis...

So whereas Covington is the 4th or 5th best starter on the Sixers, Warren is firmly the 2nd best...and I'd argue THE best in some instances, on the Suns, so his RPM is never going to reflect how good he is...

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/2/sort/RPM/position/5

...which is why I do not take a lot of stock into RPM as a metric for a player. Do we honestly believe Warren is the 77th best SF?? He might be the 77th best 3PT shooting SF, which is likely why he's down this far...well, that and the fact that he's playing with Ulis as his PG and Chriss and Chandler as his starting Bigs...

But to your original point, the Sixers definitely found a keeper in Covington...and they didn't even need to Tank to get him!

[bwgood77]

If Simmons' RPM was dependent on his teammates, they would likely rank higher than him. That team performs better when Covington is on the floor. That's why I put the definition there to make sure it was clear. Guess it wasn't. His primary contribution is elite defense. He ranks near the top in DRPM and he helps their offense immensely because he knocks down 3s at a high volume on a nice %. He is the ultimate 3&D guy which help teams in the NBA...he is very valuable because Simmons is a non shooter and Covington helps spread the floor with Redick and to a lesser extent, Saric.

I love Warren but it's a stretch to say he's a better player. He's certainly a better scorer and has a better fg% (because he mostly shoots 2s) but that's about it. No advanced measure will likely show him higher other than PER which is largely based on PER.

If Jackson could ever play as good as Covington is right now, I'd be happy.

And you mention you don't put much stock in RPM as a player metric. What about the others at the top? Harden, LeBron, Curry, Giannis, Westbrook, Lowry, Butler are the rest of the top 8. Are they only ranked high on RPM because of their teammates? Or does that only apply to Covington? He's more important than you seem to understand.

[Revived]

Warren and Booker both with strong games.

And damn, if Josh Jackson was on another team, we would all be saying how lucky we are that at least we’re not the team that spent a high pick on him.

Not trading that pick for Kyrie, even if Kyrie would’ve left after 2 full seasons, looks like the wrong decision.

[Jdiddy701]

Warren and Booker both with strong games.

And damn, if Josh Jackson was on another team, we would all be saying how lucky we are that at least we’re not the team that spent a high pick on him.

Not trading that pick for Kyrie, even if Kyrie would’ve left after 2 full seasons, looks like the wrong decision.

Even if Kyrie left? That would be insanely dumb for the suns to do that trade. If any one of us were the GM, we would have done the same thing.

Would you trade a rookie who’s guaranteed 4-7 years with your team for a player that could possibility be disgruntled on a bad team and leave in two years? If you say yes, in my opinion, you’re not a running a franchise right. Can’t fault McD for not making that trade.

Hopefully Jackson pans out so we don’t have to talk about this anymore.


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[Lou_23]

DIsagree.

We have Booker and Warren who are legitimate quality players.

They have Simmons, Embiid, Reddick and Covignton

Covington??? I would say Saric, if you want to name their best players. Covington is too limited as a player.

Yeah, they have an slightly better roster, but with a good PG on our team we could be better than them. The difference is small.

Covington is an elite defensive player IMO. Saris has been poor this year.

He was very good in December

http://www.espn.com/nba/player/splits/_/id/3032978/dario-saric

[lilfishi22]

Warren and Booker both with strong games.

And damn, if Josh Jackson was on another team, we would all be saying how lucky we are that at least we’re not the team that spent a high pick on him.

Not trading that pick for Kyrie, even if Kyrie would’ve left after 2 full seasons, looks like the wrong decision.

Even if Kyrie left? That would be insanely dumb for the suns to do that trade. If any one of us were the GM, we would have done the same thing.

Would you trade a rookie who’s guaranteed 4-7 years with your team for a player that could possibility be disgruntled on a bad team and leave in two years? If you say yes, in my opinion, you’re not a running a franchise right. Can’t fault McD for not making that trade.

Hopefully Jackson pans out so we don’t have to talk about this anymore.


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Boston was the perfect situation for him. Good group of young players who are ready to contribute and a young but already elite coach leading the team. I'm happy for him and it's great to see more competition. I was disappointed we couldn't get him but I'm not super unhappy where we are with our roster currently.

I don't think you can say just because player A is guaranteed 4-7 years then you shouldn't make a play for player B who may leave in 2. Especially if player A is a complete unknown while player B is an all-star, NBA champ and at only 25, already one of the best offensive players in the league. Also, you can't have this logic of saying, if I were GM I definitely would not have made the trade because of reasons above and then finish your post with, hopefully Player A pans out.Of course if player A pans out then great, you win. But if he doesn't and that's a legitimate possibility (as with any new player) then the argument isn't as clear as, we have player A for 7 years vs we have player B for 2.

[Sunsss]

Sad effort in the first half. Spent too much energy in the 3rd quarter, so ran out of gas at the end.

[jcsunsfan]

Warren and Booker both with strong games.

And damn, if Josh Jackson was on another team, we would all be saying how lucky we are that at least we’re not the team that spent a high pick on him.

Not trading that pick for Kyrie, even if Kyrie would’ve left after 2 full seasons, looks like the wrong decision.

Even if Kyrie left? That would be insanely dumb for the suns to do that trade. If any one of us were the GM, we would have done the same thing.

Would you trade a rookie who’s guaranteed 4-7 years with your team for a player that could possibility be disgruntled on a bad team and leave in two years? If you say yes, in my opinion, you’re not a running a franchise right. Can’t fault McD for not making that trade.

Hopefully Jackson pans out so we don’t have to talk about this anymore.


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Word was that Kyrie did not want to come to begin with! He would have been disgruntled from day 1. Trading for Kyrie was NOT an option unless he was OK with it. We need to quit second guessing this trade that could never have happened.

Second guess the pick itself all you like.


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