Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 4

JMac1 · Post #1321 » by **JMac1** » Mon Jan 1, 2018 8:59 pm

Smh...so if TJ is all of that and a bag of grits, simultaneously Bender and Chriss were not, why’d we draft JJ at four? Stupid!!! If you planned on playing a non-scoring SF as a sixth man and the 4th pick in a solid draft for a bad team, you need to be shot. A 6th Man is a scorer.

Should have drafted Markkenan....

Like it has been mentioned. If JJ doesn’t become a started...lol. Smh.

NavLDO · Post #1322 » by **NavLDO** » Mon Jan 1, 2018 9:05 pm

Saberestar wrote:
NavLDO wrote:
jcsunsfan wrote:Right now, TJ is the number 12 scoring forward in the league--not sf--among all forwards.

1. Freak
2. LeBron
3. KD
4. Anthony Davis
5. Porzingis
6. Blake
7. Alderidge
8. Middleton
9. PG
10. KLove
11 Tyreke
12. TJ Warren

Of those, he is 8th in fg% and only KLove and Tyreke have less minutes per game.

5th in scoring among small forwards, only behind James, Durant, Middleton, and PG.
3rd In scoring per 48 behind LeBron, Durant, and Michael Beasley (yes).
3rd in total points scored this year among small forwards (James, KD).
10th in rebounding among small forwards.
23rd in steals.
14th in blocked shots
5th in double doubles

https://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/scoring-per-game/sort/avgPoints/position/small-forwards

He's going to be a great 6th man for us!

Well, that's what half the board was saying a just a few short months ago; JJ was gong to be our starter all season, and Warren was going to be relegated to a 6th man type role...

Sorry...I just had to giggle when I read those comments this past August/September and shoot, many were still saying it in October/Early-November after the season started!

I'm not on to normally say 'I told you so', but in this case, I was vehemently 'pounding my fist' saying "no, no, no..." ; Warren is a starter-level SF in this league, and he is not just going to give up his starting slot because we drafted a kid at his same position. Of course, anything can happen, and something ABSOLUTELY SHOULD happen regarding JJ, because you do not waste a #4 overall pick on a 6th Man-type player, but the fact is, he's a 3, who can play some spot minutes at the 2. Well, unfortunately, we have these two guys names Booker and Warren that happen to play at the 2 & 3 positions already.

So either we need to run the offense through Booker, coach JJ 'up' at the 2 in order to be our Starting 'SG' (the defense is easy--it's his shooting that needs the coaching 'up'), continue to play Warren at the 3 on an absolute 'steal' of a contract, hope either Bender or Chriss 'get it' by the end of the season to be our starting 4, and I guess just let Len and Monroe walk at the end of the season (we wouldn't want to try to 'get' anything for Monroe before the end of the season...that would be silly... ). And Len...my goodness, can someone PLEASE slap Triano/McD around somewhat to get them to start Len the rest of the season so they can see he's actually pretty darn good.

Hey look, it's Nav, the broken record...AGAIN...so I'll continue in another thread...(don't worry, I go back to work tomorrow...)

I was really really happy when we selected Jackson with our fourth pick, but he has been disappointing so far.

I watched a lot of Kansas games during May to understand why he was the perfect fit on our roster (a lot of people were claiming that) , and the truth is that he was fantastic in college IMO. He played always under control and his decision making on offense and defense was great for the majority of the times. That gives me hope.

I think that he needs to stop shooting threes, or at least reduce his attempts a bit. His efficiency needs to go higher, he needs to play to his strengths at this moment....and those are provide energy, cutting and slashing, attack in transition and working the offensive glass.

If he gains weight and strength over the summer and improves his decision making, I can imagine him as a 6th man for us, playing a little bit of every position depending on matchups and our personal ( like Iguodala on GSW).
He can play even 30 minutes coming from the bench, so he wouldn't be a wasted pick if he develops his game and he is a do-it-all SG/SF/PF for us in the next few years.

I agree regarding Booker/Warren. We have something special in them and they are improving yet. I don't think some people understand how good they are, we have a big time building block at SG/SF with them here for sure for the next four or five years. That gives me mental peace.

Yes...if we figure out a way for Warren, JJ, and Booker to all get 32MPG (96MPG / 3 Players), then you are correct, it wouldn't be a wasted pick, then. How that happens?? Well, Booker playing some point...JJ playing some SG...and Warren playing some PF would ensure they all get their minutes. Chriss can get some minutes a Center. Len would be all Center, of course, and when we trade Bender, the Suns '18 1st, Mia '18 1st, and the Mia '21 1st, all for the rights to Doncic as our 'Combo Guard' or Trae Young as our PG...but for fun, let's say Doncic, we'd have...

Doncic / Booker / Warren / Chriss / Len

...which subs to...

Booker / JJ / Warren / Chriss / Len

...which subs to...

Doncic / Reed / JJ / Warren / Chriss

...which subs to...

Reed / Booker / Warren / Chriss / Len

...which subs to...

Doncic / JJ / Reed / Warren / Chriss

...which subs to...

Reed / Booker / JJ / Warren / Chriss

...which subs to...

Doncic / JJ / Reed / Chriss / Len

Well, you get the point...with the position versatility of...

Doncic (1-3)
Reed (1-3)
Booker (1-2)
JJ (2-3)
Warren (3-4)
Chriss (4-5)
Len (5)

That's one heck of a 7-man rotation, IMO. Depends on if Reed is as good as advertised, I guess. But even if we 'only' got Trae Young, we'd be limited in our rotation possibilities, but so long as Reed can get some burn at the 3...which with his 7' Wingspan and his Defensive prowess, he should...

Quoted from one of our competitors Blog sites' Draft profile of Reed...

Davon could play a combo guard role off the bench. For a team lacking any point guard on the roster at the moment, Reed could be a welcome addition....

...Draft Express has him as a similar player to Michael Kidd-Gilchrist, Luc Richard Mbah a Moute and Moe Harkless...Given his positional versatility and length, with a 7′ wingspan and 8’6″ standing reach.

Saberestar · Post #1323 » by **Saberestar** » Mon Jan 1, 2018 9:16 pm

Reed is a second round pick coming from a big injury.
He needs to prove that he belongs to the NBA yet, a lot of second round picks are out of the league after a couple of years.

I am not gonna count with him having a big role on this team until I watch him playing a single minute in the NBA. I am cautious regarding him.

He played OK in Summer League, but that doesn't say too much.

Post #1324 » by **lilfishi22** » Mon Jan 1, 2018 11:17 pm

NavLDO wrote:
Qwigglez wrote:Is anyone interested in Aaron Gordon? The new regime of the Magic didn't offer him an extension this summer mostly because he didn't deserve one based off the previous 3 years of production, they also drafted Isaacs to eventually be the starting PF although maybe he can play center at some point. Anyhow, they are sitting at 82mil in guaranteed salaries for the 2018 season not including rookies or an extension for Gordon (and Payton). They have Isaacs, Vucevic, and Biyombo also at PF/C spots.
Gordon would be like a mini Blake Griffin, except he shies away from contact as he only gets 4.3 FT's per game. He is shooting remarkably from 3 this season, and I thought maybe he was just having a good contract year, but after reviewing some game footage his 3-ball is looking solid. He also isn't nearly the passer Griffin is.
If I were the Magic GM I would definitely keep Gordon around, but again, a new regime may feel otherwise. I'd offer up Chriss and a couple of picks and see if that gets it done. Chriss has put together a string of good games lately though.
Booker, Warren, and Gordon are all 20 point scorers, and I imagine their efficiency would likely go up having all three in the lineup making it difficult for opposing defenses.
Anyway, just a thought, what you guys think?

Since Chriss is making a turn for the better, maybe we keep him and see if it's a 'permanent' turn around. If he starts hitting is potential...wow...he could very well be a stud in a year or two, which is why we drafted him in the first place.

Doubt we have enough to get him though. With Gordon's play at near allstar level, I highly doubt the Magic are going to let him go for anyone on this roster not named Booker. Maybe our 1st.

Could be contract year stats but I don't think it is. He's always been a hard working player who just couldn't put his skillset and athleticism together. In the NBA putting it together isn't just a matter of effort, it's something you need to switch on. That's a difference between great NBA player and average ones. Most NBA players have talent but few of them ever put it together and begin playing like a legitimate NBA starter. Booker and Warren seems to have figured it out and we have a whole bunch of young talent who has yet to make that turn. Turning the corner at only 22, with elite NBA athleticism is kind of what we are betting our money on with Chriss. If we can turn this gamble into a sure thing for some outgoing value, I'd do it.

bigfoot · Post #1325 » by **bigfoot** » Tue Jan 2, 2018 12:05 am

Waylay13 wrote:
bigfoot wrote:
MathiasPW wrote:This. We should be talking about SKILLS needed, not positions. And we need playmaking, shooting, defense, in that order, the most.

We need shooting, defense, and then maybe playmaking. We so sorely lack shooters with >.500 2p% and > .400 3p%. That has to be the number one priority. It is unacceptable to have players like Ulis and Jackson get major minutes shooting .328/.290 and 378/.239 and between them taking 17 shots. That's just bad basketball. Basketball is first and foremost about scoring and players who can't shoot shouldn't be on the floor. Those two are even worse because neither are very good at defense right now. A double whammy.

Playmaking would increase our shooting percentage. Why do you think the team that leads in the NBA in assist last year was also the best shooting team?

Your thinking is backwards. Shooters spread the floor. Shooters open the game for passing. Putting a bunch of non-three point shooters on the floor means defenses can pack it in on the inside and force outside shots. When the offense is spread with good three point shooters the defense is spread which opens up both passing and driving lines for playmaking.

Edit: FYI, found this after I posted ... https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2018/1/1/16838688/suns-plan-to-experiment-with-devin-booker-playing-point-guard-more-outside-of-closing-situations-nba

NTB · Post #1326 » by **NTB** » Tue Jan 2, 2018 1:26 am

Read on Twitter

jredsaz · Post #1327 » by **jredsaz** » Tue Jan 2, 2018 4:31 am

bigfoot wrote:
Waylay13 wrote:
bigfoot wrote:
We need shooting, defense, and then maybe playmaking. We so sorely lack shooters with >.500 2p% and > .400 3p%. That has to be the number one priority. It is unacceptable to have players like Ulis and Jackson get major minutes shooting .328/.290 and 378/.239 and between them taking 17 shots. That's just bad basketball. Basketball is first and foremost about scoring and players who can't shoot shouldn't be on the floor. Those two are even worse because neither are very good at defense right now. A double whammy.

Playmaking would increase our shooting percentage. Why do you think the team that leads in the NBA in assist last year was also the best shooting team?

Your thinking is backwards. Shooters spread the floor. Shooters open the game for passing. Putting a bunch of non-three point shooters on the floor means defenses can pack it in on the inside and force outside shots. When the offense is spread with good three point shooters the defense is spread which opens up both passing and driving lines for playmaking.

Edit: FYI, found this after I posted ... https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2018/1/1/16838688/suns-plan-to-experiment-with-devin-booker-playing-point-guard-more-outside-of-closing-situations-nba

I'm interested to see a Booker/Daniels/Warren/Bender/Chriss line-up at some point.

Post #1328 » by **Qwigglez** » Tue Jan 2, 2018 10:11 am

lilfishi22 wrote:
NavLDO wrote:
Qwigglez wrote:Is anyone interested in Aaron Gordon? The new regime of the Magic didn't offer him an extension this summer mostly because he didn't deserve one based off the previous 3 years of production, they also drafted Isaacs to eventually be the starting PF although maybe he can play center at some point. Anyhow, they are sitting at 82mil in guaranteed salaries for the 2018 season not including rookies or an extension for Gordon (and Payton). They have Isaacs, Vucevic, and Biyombo also at PF/C spots.
Gordon would be like a mini Blake Griffin, except he shies away from contact as he only gets 4.3 FT's per game. He is shooting remarkably from 3 this season, and I thought maybe he was just having a good contract year, but after reviewing some game footage his 3-ball is looking solid. He also isn't nearly the passer Griffin is.
If I were the Magic GM I would definitely keep Gordon around, but again, a new regime may feel otherwise. I'd offer up Chriss and a couple of picks and see if that gets it done. Chriss has put together a string of good games lately though.
Booker, Warren, and Gordon are all 20 point scorers, and I imagine their efficiency would likely go up having all three in the lineup making it difficult for opposing defenses.
Anyway, just a thought, what you guys think?

Since Chriss is making a turn for the better, maybe we keep him and see if it's a 'permanent' turn around. If he starts hitting is potential...wow...he could very well be a stud in a year or two, which is why we drafted him in the first place.

Doubt we have enough to get him though. With Gordon's play at near allstar level, I highly doubt the Magic are going to let him go for anyone on this roster not named Booker. Maybe our 1st.

Could be contract year stats but I don't think it is. He's always been a hard working player who just couldn't put his skillset and athleticism together. In the NBA putting it together isn't just a matter of effort, it's something you need to switch on. That's a difference between great NBA player and average ones. Most NBA players have talent but few of them ever put it together and begin playing like a legitimate NBA starter. Booker and Warren seems to have figured it out and we have a whole bunch of young talent who has yet to make that turn. Turning the corner at only 22, with elite NBA athleticism is kind of what we are betting our money on with Chriss. If we can turn this gamble into a sure thing for some outgoing value, I'd do it.

The only reason I brought him up is since they got new management I'm not sure they are sold on him. I mean, McD traded everyone away that he didn't bring in himself, so I just thought maybe the Magic may do the same. I'm not sure they want to pay Gordon the max after finding his replacement in the draft. I'm sure they would, but maybe not? Chriss and a couple of 1st may be intriguing enough, and McD keeps mentioning how he gathered all these assets to make a trade.

NavLDO · Post #1329 » by **NavLDO** » Tue Jan 2, 2018 11:10 am

Mulhollanddrive wrote:Keep in mind PG is the toughest position for a rookie to play.

None of Fultz, Ball, Fox, Smith, Ntilikina would have much difference this season.

So if we draft a PG it's going to be require being bad at that position for a couple more years at least.

The thing seems to be that most of the 'PGs' coming out are more of the Combo Guard variety, even if a couple of them happen to lack 'Combo Guard' size, the important part is the mentality and make-up of the player, and, can he shoot. If we get a shooter, we're good.

So a Doncic, Young, Walker, Sexton...they can all handle the rock, and shoot beautifully as well, from anywhere on the court. They might be just what the doctor ordered; early on in their career, Booker can handle the load...later on as 'he' develops, our new young Combo Guard can start taking more reps at PG. Just a thought...

NavLDO · Post #1330 » by **NavLDO** » Tue Jan 2, 2018 11:24 am

Saberestar wrote:Reed is a second round pick coming from a big injury.
He needs to prove that he belongs to the NBA yet, a lot of second round picks are out of the league after a couple of years.

I am not gonna count with him having a big role on this team until I watch him playing a single minute in the NBA. I am cautious regarding him.

He played OK in Summer League, but that doesn't say too much.

True. I'm jumping the gun a bit, but I'm going off projections for Reed, both coming out, and since SL. Reed was a 2nd Rd pick because he was a Senior and known to be a bit 'injury prone'. Had he been 19YO, with the same 'package' he brought to the NBA that he did as a Senior coming out, he would potentially have been a mid-1st Rd pick.

Anyway, with Reed being able to defend all three spots, thanks to his amazing length (7' Wingspan), and he truly fitting the moniker of a 3&D Wing...one that can also run the point, makes him quite unusual and versatile.

It's definitely a big IF that I seemed to have glossed over...but IF he comes in as advertised, he could be a real gem for us.

NavLDO · Post #1331 » by **NavLDO** » Tue Jan 2, 2018 11:41 am

Qwigglez wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:
NavLDO wrote:
Since Chriss is making a turn for the better, maybe we keep him and see if it's a 'permanent' turn around. If he starts hitting is potential...wow...he could very well be a stud in a year or two, which is why we drafted him in the first place.

Doubt we have enough to get him though. With Gordon's play at near allstar level, I highly doubt the Magic are going to let him go for anyone on this roster not named Booker. Maybe our 1st.

Could be contract year stats but I don't think it is. He's always been a hard working player who just couldn't put his skillset and athleticism together. In the NBA putting it together isn't just a matter of effort, it's something you need to switch on. That's a difference between great NBA player and average ones. Most NBA players have talent but few of them ever put it together and begin playing like a legitimate NBA starter. Booker and Warren seems to have figured it out and we have a whole bunch of young talent who has yet to make that turn. Turning the corner at only 22, with elite NBA athleticism is kind of what we are betting our money on with Chriss. If we can turn this gamble into a sure thing for some outgoing value, I'd do it.

The only reason I brought him up is since they got new management I'm not sure they are sold on him. I mean, McD traded everyone away that he didn't bring in himself, so I just thought maybe the Magic may do the same. I'm not sure they want to pay Gordon the max after finding his replacement in the draft. I'm sure they would, but maybe not? Chriss and a couple of 1st may be intriguing enough, and McD keeps mentioning how he gathered all these assets to make a trade.

You make some solid points; GMs DO like to build their own teams, even at the detriment of said team, at times, so it is possible, but Gordon has become SO good, that he had better come back with an AMAZING return on the trade, and as mentioned, I'm not sure we have that return either...

We'd likely have to include Warren, which is fine, so long as we keep JJ. They might desire JJ instead, just based off potential rather than current production.

IMO, if we offer them JJ, Bender (basing this off the fact that they covet Isaac's versatility, and Bender also fits that mold, more so than Chriss), Suns '18 1st, Mia '21 1st...maybe something like...

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yb9p84yd

...would work. We also take on Biyombo's $17M for the next 2 years, and give them Monroe as an expiring (meaning, we'd have to do this before the trade deadline).

Leaves us with...

Ulis / Booker / Warren / Gordon / Biyombo or Len

Post #1332 » by **Qwigglez** » Tue Jan 2, 2018 12:04 pm

NavLDO wrote:
Qwigglez wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:Doubt we have enough to get him though. With Gordon's play at near allstar level, I highly doubt the Magic are going to let him go for anyone on this roster not named Booker. Maybe our 1st.

Could be contract year stats but I don't think it is. He's always been a hard working player who just couldn't put his skillset and athleticism together. In the NBA putting it together isn't just a matter of effort, it's something you need to switch on. That's a difference between great NBA player and average ones. Most NBA players have talent but few of them ever put it together and begin playing like a legitimate NBA starter. Booker and Warren seems to have figured it out and we have a whole bunch of young talent who has yet to make that turn. Turning the corner at only 22, with elite NBA athleticism is kind of what we are betting our money on with Chriss. If we can turn this gamble into a sure thing for some outgoing value, I'd do it.

The only reason I brought him up is since they got new management I'm not sure they are sold on him. I mean, McD traded everyone away that he didn't bring in himself, so I just thought maybe the Magic may do the same. I'm not sure they want to pay Gordon the max after finding his replacement in the draft. I'm sure they would, but maybe not? Chriss and a couple of 1st may be intriguing enough, and McD keeps mentioning how he gathered all these assets to make a trade.

You make some solid points; GMs DO like to build their own teams, even at the detriment of said team, at times, so it is possible, but Gordon has become SO good, that he had better come back with an AMAZING return on the trade, and as mentioned, I'm not sure we have that return either...

We'd likely have to include Warren, which is fine, so long as we keep JJ. They might desire JJ instead, just based off potential rather than current production.

IMO, if we offer them JJ, Bender (basing this off the fact that they covet Isaac's versatility, and Bender also fits that mold, more so than Chriss), Suns '18 1st, Mia '21 1st...maybe something like...

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yb9p84yd

...would work. We also take on Biyombo's $17M for the next 2 years, and give them Monroe as an expiring (meaning, we'd have to do this before the trade deadline).

Leaves us with...

Ulis / Booker / Warren / Gordon / Biyombo or Len

I wouldn't touch any of their gross contracts. But I think maybe, if they decided on Isaacs, perhaps they were also intrigued by JJ's defense and were hoping he would slip in the draft? JJ and some picks for Gordon would be interesting and I could see the Magic being intrigued by that offer. Though we'd have to deal with Bender/Gordon/Chriss fighting for minutes, but I guess Bender is versatile enough to play the 3, 4, and 5, while Chriss can play the 4 and occasionally the 5. Gordon is more of a tweener so he'd likely be the 4 and maybe playing the 3 if we ran Bender/Gordon/Chriss front court.
Gordon isn't much defensively, like I said earlier, a liter version of Blake Griffin, but he is still only 22 so he can still grow. I'm not sure what his cap hold would be, but we could still go after free agents in 2018 such as Bradley. We'd have 3 solid weapons in Booker, Warren, and Gordon so Bradley would be ideal since he can stretch the floor by hitting 3's while being a defensive menace on the opposite side of the court. Meanwhile, Gordon shoulders the load offensively in our frontcourt gives us time for Chriss and Bender to fully develop.

jcsunsfan · Post #1333 » by **jcsunsfan** » Tue Jan 2, 2018 12:44 pm

bigfoot wrote:
Waylay13 wrote:
bigfoot wrote:
We need shooting, defense, and then maybe playmaking. We so sorely lack shooters with >.500 2p% and > .400 3p%. That has to be the number one priority. It is unacceptable to have players like Ulis and Jackson get major minutes shooting .328/.290 and 378/.239 and between them taking 17 shots. That's just bad basketball. Basketball is first and foremost about scoring and players who can't shoot shouldn't be on the floor. Those two are even worse because neither are very good at defense right now. A double whammy.

Playmaking would increase our shooting percentage. Why do you think the team that leads in the NBA in assist last year was also the best shooting team?

Your thinking is backwards. Shooters spread the floor. Shooters open the game for passing. Putting a bunch of non-three point shooters on the floor means defenses can pack it in on the inside and force outside shots. When the offense is spread with good three point shooters the defense is spread which opens up both passing and driving lines for playmaking.

Edit: FYI, found this after I posted ... https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2018/1/1/16838688/suns-plan-to-experiment-with-devin-booker-playing-point-guard-more-outside-of-closing-situations-nba

I think this strategy works well for using Reed when he comes back too.

Booker is fine at pg in slow down situations and the half court game. If we want to be a running team, I am not so sure. Maybe he could run the break effectively but not repeatedly like in a SSOL offense.

It’s still hard for me to grasp that our pace is normal to slow.

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

Biff · Post #1334 » by **Biff** » Tue Jan 2, 2018 10:44 pm

This is the one draft where it would make the most sense to tank and we're headed in the wrong direction. It's good to develop a winning culture but with the talent we have, we're never going to be better than a first round exit type of team. We really need another all-star talent next to Booker. Booker and a bunch of roleplayers isn't going to cut it. We need to land in the top 5-6, otherwise I think we should think about packaging the pick with some other assets and getting a young player with more potential.

Stark · Post #1335 » by **Stark** » Tue Jan 2, 2018 11:04 pm

Biff wrote:This is the one draft where it would make the most sense to tank and we're headed in the wrong direction. It's good to develop a winning culture but with the talent we have, we're never going to be better than a first round exit type of team. We really need another all-star talent next to Booker. Booker and a bunch of roleplayers isn't going to cut it. We need to land in the top 5-6, otherwise I think we should think about packaging the pick with some other assets and getting a young player with more potential.

Like last year? Everyone was saying how awesome Fultz is how Josh Jackson is ready for the league etc. in the end there will be always very good players in the draft (Kuzma,Mitchell,Bell etc.) I mean we don't even have a vet who gets us wins. We are winning with Booker,Warren, Bender, Chriss, JJ. What are we going to do? Tell Booker that he should stop dropping 40 points on other teams. I know that this draft seems pretty good but i'm not worried about getting a pick outside of top 5. I would be worried if we're still one of the worst 3 team in the league w/Booker,Warren,Bender. That means that our core is not good but i'm just happy that they're playing good for a young team.

We will probably have two picks in top 15 so it is still pretty good for a solid young team. We have our young superstar, a very efficient scorer on a good contract and solid young players. We can still build a good team around them without having a top pick, there are also other ways to find talent (Free Agents, Trades, Solid 2nd round picks)

Post #1336 » by **lilfishi22** » Tue Jan 2, 2018 11:44 pm

Biff wrote:This is the one draft where it would make the most sense to tank and we're headed in the wrong direction. It's good to develop a winning culture but with the talent we have, we're never going to be better than a first round exit type of team. We really need another all-star talent next to Booker. Booker and a bunch of roleplayers isn't going to cut it. We need to land in the top 5-6, otherwise I think we should think about packaging the pick with some other assets and getting a young player with more potential.

We are heading in the right direction. We're getting better. We're less than 5 games to the top of the lotto with a lot of games left so a top 5 pick isn't out of the question. I don't want to lose because I think winning is as good for development as anything but I'm realistic in realizing that the team we have currently won't keep winning. I just don't cheer for losses like some people do.

bigfoot · Post #1337 » by **bigfoot** » Wed Jan 3, 2018 12:09 am

Biff wrote:This is the one draft where it would make the most sense to tank and we're headed in the wrong direction. It's good to develop a winning culture but with the talent we have, we're never going to be better than a first round exit type of team. We really need another all-star talent next to Booker. Booker and a bunch of roleplayers isn't going to cut it. We need to land in the top 5-6, otherwise I think we should think about packaging the pick with some other assets and getting a young player with more potential.

I've heard this same thing for the last five years ... Len, Chriss, Bender, Jackson hyped same as this years crop of 18 year olds.

I say trade our draft picks and a few players for a legit star. Pick up a legit free agent this summer too.

NavLDO · Post #1338 » by **NavLDO** » Wed Jan 3, 2018 12:18 am

gaspar wrote:
bigfoot wrote:
Waylay13 wrote:I think our biggest issue that we dont have a point guard that is a pass first guard (starter level) for this reason i dont think is that type of passer and i sure as heck dont think that Sexton is anywhere close to that. I have said it before i am sick of combo guards claiming to be points.

I'll say this again. People need to think outside the box in terms of a pass first point guard. We don't need that. Really, we don't. Neither Kobe or Jordan played next to a pass first point guard. What we really need is a point guard who can hit the three, play really good defense, and occasionally handle the ball. Seriously, the ball needs to be in Booker's hands to initiate the offense. If Daniels played decent defense then he would be ideal. Jackson and Reed should be candidates for the type of player we want to put next to Booker. Jackson needs to rebuild his shot to have any hope of lasting in the league but if he does then he could play next to Booker. Reed supposedly has the shot and defensive chops (7' wing span) plus some ball handling abilities. He may be the exactly what the doctor ordered.

I disagree with both of you.

First of all, pass first point guards don't really exist anymore. The players that are labeled as pass-first point guards in reality are pass-first, pass-second and pass-third point guards who usually do more harm than good for their teams' offenses (like Rubio).

Second of all, to maximize Booker's potential we need someone who can do more than jus hit the open three and occasionally handle the ball. We need someone who can take the pressure off of Devin, someone who can play as the lead guard when Book gets constantly doubled.

IMO the dreaded "combo guard" is EXACTLY what this team needs alongside Booker. We need a younger Bledsoe with a better three point shooting or someone like that. Can Knight improve his decision making to be that guy? Most likely not. Is there anyone else in the league who's available and fits our timeline? I don't think so. We have to roll with what we have and wait for the right opportunity. Don't settle for a guy who's better than what we currently have, but isn't what we are really looking for.

And I'm sure they disagree with you, a do I, but you'll never know, because you if I'm not on your ignore list yet, you still haven't done it right. :lol:

The last thing we need to is to continue to 'wait'for the perfect player...he doesn't exist. McD has been 'waiting' for that...or something...for 5 years now. We need to fill the hole that is our PG slot...or...our the hole that becomes our SG slot because we moved Booker over to be a Combo-Guard-Point-Guard. We have the assets this year to get a player we need, or, Draft one. But going into next season without this figured out...meaning another year of Ulis...or Knight...is not the answer.

Reed may be the answer; Bigfoot might be correct. We'll have hopefully about 40+ games to see if he is.

We really do need a better answer than "wait for the right opportunity..." unless there was a 2nd part to that statement that you just didn't vocalize, which says "...before the beginning of next season, but then make the best decision possible if not figured out by July."

Waylay13 · Post #1339 » by **Waylay13** » Wed Jan 3, 2018 12:29 am

bigfoot wrote:
Biff wrote:This is the one draft where it would make the most sense to tank and we're headed in the wrong direction. It's good to develop a winning culture but with the talent we have, we're never going to be better than a first round exit type of team. We really need another all-star talent next to Booker. Booker and a bunch of roleplayers isn't going to cut it. We need to land in the top 5-6, otherwise I think we should think about packaging the pick with some other assets and getting a young player with more potential.

I've heard this same thing for the last five years ... Len, Chriss, Bender, Jackson hyped same as this years crop of 18 year olds.

I say trade our draft picks and a few players for a legit star. Pick up a legit free agent this summer too.

Funny the official rebuild only started two years ago with the tank that lead to Bender and Chriss but even at that the set a goal of being back in the playoffs in 2020. you want to give up on the player that the majority of GMs around the NBA said would be the best player in 5 years because you are short sighted. No thanks I want a team that is going to be going after a championship not some "Oh I made it into the playoffs so everything is fine." look at Phil they have bright future because they had a plan and stuck with it and got some talented players to build around.

bigfoot · Post #1340 » by **bigfoot** » Wed Jan 3, 2018 1:01 am

Waylay13 wrote:
bigfoot wrote:
Biff wrote:This is the one draft where it would make the most sense to tank and we're headed in the wrong direction. It's good to develop a winning culture but with the talent we have, we're never going to be better than a first round exit type of team. We really need another all-star talent next to Booker. Booker and a bunch of roleplayers isn't going to cut it. We need to land in the top 5-6, otherwise I think we should think about packaging the pick with some other assets and getting a young player with more potential.

I've heard this same thing for the last five years ... Len, Chriss, Bender, Jackson hyped same as this years crop of 18 year olds.

I say trade our draft picks and a few players for a legit star. Pick up a legit free agent this summer too.

Funny the official rebuild only started two years ago with the tank that lead to Bender and Chriss but even at that the set a goal of being back in the playoffs in 2020. you want to give up on the player that the majority of GMs around the NBA said would be the best player in 5 years because you are short sighted. No thanks I want a team that is going to be going after a championship not some "Oh I made it into the playoffs so everything is fine." look at Phil they have bright future because they had a plan and stuck with it and got some talented players to build around.

No, No! For at least five years (and probably longer) I have heard the repeated cries for losses so we can get a top 5 draft pick. Sure we overachieved a few of those years and netted TJ Warren and Booker. In the losing years we still haven't found the superstar most folks insist we will get.

In terms of getting what Philly did those odds are impossible now that the draft rules will be changing in 2019. Only a 14% chance of getting the #1 if you have the worst record. So basically there is a negligible chance to ever repeat what Philly did with the number of top 3 picks they got over the last five years.

In terms of waiting five years for JJ to become "the best player in his draft class" I will take a pass and trade him if necessary. Booker won't wait five years to become a winner and Jackson's shot may take that long to fix.

What direction would you like the front office to take?