Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 4

[lilfishi22]

I don't particularly respect Kyrie but his talent and impact is undeniable. If you have an opportunity to trade for a top talent, you should do it.

his impact was a -120 when he was on the floor and lebron wasnt. What part of that sounds like he is a great player to add?

Or what about the Cavs without Lebron just plain sucks. Says more about a team built for Lebron than any other single player on the team.

[Waylay13]

I don't particularly respect Kyrie but his talent and impact is undeniable. If you have an opportunity to trade for a top talent, you should do it.

his impact was a -120 when he was on the floor and lebron wasnt. What part of that sounds like he is a great player to add?

Or what about the Cavs without Lebron just plain sucks. Says more about a team built for Lebron than any other single player on the team.

or that Kyrie is a self absorbed player who thinks that he should center of the universe which is clearly the case by his 5 assist that he is averaging in Boston.

[lilfishi22]

his impact was a -120 when he was on the floor and lebron wasnt. What part of that sounds like he is a great player to add?

Or what about the Cavs without Lebron just plain sucks. Says more about a team built for Lebron than any other single player on the team.

or that Kyrie is a self absorbed player who thinks that he should center of the universe which is clearly the case by his 5 assist that he is averaging in Boston.

Why can't you say that about Kevin Love? He's part of the Cavs Big 3 that won a championship. The only player who is bigger than the team (Kyrie and Love aren't) is Lebron and when you have a team built for Lebron playing without Lebron, you're not gonna be very good.

I don't shy away from the fact that Kyrie is a scoring PG but he's a scoring PG that also averages 5apg on a Boston team that is 31-10 and 1st in the East. I'm not saying it's all him because Boston also happen to be the best defensive teams in the league and he's not a good defender but being a scoring PG that also averages 5APG is doing great things for them offensively. Whether you think he's 'self-absorbed and think he's the center of the universe', I don't really care about because that's entirely subjective. I do however look at results and I look at who's the most talented player on this 31-10 Boston team

[hollywood6964]

Irving is big time. I knew we wouldn't get him, but that cold day in hell has to happen someday, n I was hoping.....

[Frank Lee]

Irving is big time. I knew we wouldn't get him, but that cold day in hell has to happen someday, n I was hoping.....

but apparently we could have..... and there lies the rub


hard to imagine a top ten player coming available by trade again. But be clear, when one does, its going to cost a top pick and a player. I guess its easier to imagine Chris, Bender, Jackson figuring things out by next year. At least two of the three must.

Meanwhile, the search for a PG continues





(Goran says hi )

[hollywood6964]

Irving is big time. I knew we wouldn't get him, but that cold day in hell has to happen someday, n I was hoping.....

but apparently we could have..... and there lies the rub


hard to imagine a top ten player coming available by trade again. But be clear, when one does, its going to cost a top pick and a player. I guess its easier to imagine Chris, Bender, Jackson figuring things out by next year. At least two of the three must.

Meanwhile, the search for a PG continues





(Goran says hi )

I know, this organization is a comedy of errors. What a mistake, you can say going back to Warrick, turk n childress. Christ sake. N I remember ppl at the espn boards (a lot of the same ppl r here), trying to put the homer spin on it. Saying Warrick could be "amare-lite", n turk would be a "great point forward for us", n that childress was a "find overseas". I laughed then, I laugh now.

[darealjuice]

But then when Kyrie leaves in 2 years and we’re left with nothing, you guys would be laughing at “McDoofus” and how dumb he was to give up Bledsoe and the #4 pick for an obvious 2 year rental that only got us back to our coveted late lottery pick.

[hollywood6964]

But then when Kyrie leaves in 2 years and we’re left with nothing, you guys would be laughing at “McDoofus” and how dumb he was to give up Bledsoe and the #4 pick for an obvious 2 year rental that only got us back to our coveted late lottery pick.

Who's the you guys? I only caveated that same reason twice. A very long, long time ago. A whole maybe handful of posts up the page.

[Qwigglez]

But then when Kyrie leaves in 2 years and we’re left with nothing, you guys would be laughing at “McDoofus” and how dumb he was to give up Bledsoe and the #4 pick for an obvious 2 year rental that only got us back to our coveted late lottery pick.

So the problem I have with this is we are looking at it as if McD would just get Kyrie and say "Cool we are set for the next 2 years, let's see what this roster can do." We would still have the 2 Miami picks and our own picks to bargain with if we wanted to make another trade. Or we'd continue to building with what we got, and maybe in 2019 other top free agents see a trio of Booker-Kyrie-Warren going off and want to join us. We'd have a maxed out Booker at $28mil, Warren salary at a bargain deal of $10.8mil, and the rest of our roster would be rookie contracts. Let's say we are sitting at $65mil, we'd have enough money to keep Kyrie here long term as well as pick up another star. Plenty of top talent in the 2019 free agency pool.

Oh and late lottery pick is where McD thrives.

[Frank Lee]

But then when Kyrie leaves in 2 years and we’re left with nothing, you guys would be laughing at “McDoofus” and how dumb he was to give up Bledsoe and the #4 pick for an obvious 2 year rental that only got us back to our coveted late lottery pick.

That’s the BS assumption argument/rebuttal. That Irving or any other player for that matter would leave, so therefore, do not acquire them.

You don’t know that. Are we not to acquire anybody we can’t contractually control for 4+ years?

And as we have seen, even that does not guarantee a player remains here


Ps ... and what quiggs said

[lilfishi22]

But then when Kyrie leaves in 2 years and we’re left with nothing, you guys would be laughing at “McDoofus” and how dumb he was to give up Bledsoe and the #4 pick for an obvious 2 year rental that only got us back to our coveted late lottery pick.

That’s the BS assumption argument/rebuttal. That Irving or any other player for that matter would leave, so therefore, do not acquire them.

You don’t know that. Are we not to acquire anybody we can’t contractually control for 4+ years?

And as we have seen, even that does not guarantee a player remains here

We acquired Knight with half a season left on his deal for the LA pick and Ennis/Plumdog. I certainly didn't buy this scare campaign that only having two years (two full years, no player options) left on his deal means they can't be considered. And I definitely don't like the idea that having player A for potentially 7 years therefore they are better to have on the team than player B who's in the books for only 2. Except player A is an unproven and untested draftee while player B is a 25yo all-star, NBA champion and one of the best offensive players in the league.

If we traded that #4 pick and Bledsoe (who as it's been stated a million times, was not in our plans) and Kyrie left in two years. So be it. McD took a gamble, he did what he can to build a young team who's ready to play. I couldn't blame McD for taking that chance.

[Revived]

Irving is big time. I knew we wouldn't get him, but that cold day in hell has to happen someday, n I was hoping.....

but apparently we could have..... and there lies the rub


hard to imagine a top ten player coming available by trade again. But be clear, when one does, its going to cost a top pick and a player. I guess its easier to imagine Chris, Bender, Jackson figuring things out by next year. At least two of the three must.

Meanwhile, the search for a PG continues





(Goran says hi )

I know, this organization is a comedy of errors. What a mistake, you can say going back to Warrick, turk n childress. Christ sake. N I remember ppl at the espn boards (a lot of the same ppl r here), trying to put the homer spin on it. Saying Warrick could be "amare-lite", n turk would be a "great point forward for us", n that childress was a "find overseas". I laughed then, I laugh now.

I still wish Sarver just paid Amare with the money he spent on Turkogku, Warrick and Childress and brought back that same exact 2010 WCF team which had very, very good chemistry.

[lilfishi22]

but apparently we could have..... and there lies the rub


hard to imagine a top ten player coming available by trade again. But be clear, when one does, its going to cost a top pick and a player. I guess its easier to imagine Chris, Bender, Jackson figuring things out by next year. At least two of the three must.

Meanwhile, the search for a PG continues





(Goran says hi )

I know, this organization is a comedy of errors. What a mistake, you can say going back to Warrick, turk n childress. Christ sake. N I remember ppl at the espn boards (a lot of the same ppl r here), trying to put the homer spin on it. Saying Warrick could be "amare-lite", n turk would be a "great point forward for us", n that childress was a "find overseas". I laughed then, I laugh now.

I still wish Sarver just paid Amare with the money he spent on Turkogku, Warrick and Childress and brought back that same exact 2010 WCF team which had very, very good chemistry.

Would've been nice but the mistake was spending that money at all. In hindsight it was right to let Amare go even though I wished we paid him the money. He went for the money (as he should) and absolutely dominated for a season (and a half?) then could never stay healthy. Just wished Sarver never went out to spend that money on marginal talent.

[Revived]

I know, this organization is a comedy of errors. What a mistake, you can say going back to Warrick, turk n childress. Christ sake. N I remember ppl at the espn boards (a lot of the same ppl r here), trying to put the homer spin on it. Saying Warrick could be "amare-lite", n turk would be a "great point forward for us", n that childress was a "find overseas". I laughed then, I laugh now.

I still wish Sarver just paid Amare with the money he spent on Turkogku, Warrick and Childress and brought back that same exact 2010 WCF team which had very, very good chemistry.

Would've been nice but the mistake was spending that money at all. In hindsight it was right to let Amare go even though I wished we paid him the money. He went for the money (as he should) and absolutely dominated for a season (and a half?) then could never stay healthy. Just wished Sarver never went out to spend that money on marginal talent.

I think Amare would’ve stayed healthy for at least 2 seasons with the Suns training staff and with the Suns title window closing and Nash’s age going up, it would’ve been worth the money and risk to give Amare that contract.

In hindsight it makes even more sense since they could’ve just amnestied him once he started breaking down.

But yeah not spending the money at all would’ve been better than spending it on those three.

[hollywood6964]

I still wish Sarver just paid Amare with the money he spent on Turkogku, Warrick and Childress and brought back that same exact 2010 WCF team which had very, very good chemistry.

Would've been nice but the mistake was spending that money at all. In hindsight it was right to let Amare go even though I wished we paid him the money. He went for the money (as he should) and absolutely dominated for a season (and a half?) then could never stay healthy. Just wished Sarver never went out to spend that money on marginal talent.

I think Amare would’ve stayed healthy for at least 2 seasons with the Suns training staff and with the Suns title window closing and Nash’s age going up, it would’ve been worth the money and risk to give Amare that contract.

In hindsight it makes even more sense since they could’ve just amnestied him once he started breaking down.

But yeah not spending the money at all would’ve been better than spending it on those three.

Amare was running on absolute fumes. I didn't want them to resign him. It was the right move. But what he spent on that budget roster, was a joke.

[hollywood6964]

But then when Kyrie leaves in 2 years and we’re left with nothing, you guys would be laughing at “McDoofus” and how dumb he was to give up Bledsoe and the #4 pick for an obvious 2 year rental that only got us back to our coveted late lottery pick.

That’s the BS assumption argument/rebuttal. That Irving or any other player for that matter would leave, so therefore, do not acquire them.

You don’t know that. Are we not to acquire anybody we can’t contractually control for 4+ years?

And as we have seen, even that does not guarantee a player remains here


Ps ... and what quiggs said

Unfortunately it's a players league. If a guy doesn't want to come, don't bother. It is what it is.

[NavLDO]

Funny the official rebuild only started two years ago with the tank that lead to Bender and Chriss but even at that the set a goal of being back in the playoffs in 2020. you want to give up on the player that the majority of GMs around the NBA said would be the best player in 5 years because you are short sighted. No thanks I want a team that is going to be going after a championship not some "Oh I made it into the playoffs so everything is fine." look at Phil they have bright future because they had a plan and stuck with it and got some talented players to build around.

No, No! For at least five years (and probably longer) I have heard the repeated cries for losses so we can get a top 5 draft pick. Sure we overachieved a few of those years and netted TJ Warren and Booker. In the losing years we still haven't found the superstar most folks insist we will get.

You've heard people call for it, but our franchise hasn't been actually doing it until 2 years ago, which is their point.

No, the point is, the Franchise head honchos may NOT have THOUGHT they were in the midst of a rebuild, but they have been since 2011....that's the sad part. The fans knew we were in a rebuild long before our FO were either able or willing to recognize it. You don't pick 8 straight years in the Lotto and 5 years into it, THEN finally say "huh I guess we are in a rebuild...whoda thunk it?"

Just because they had delusions of grandeur in 2014, and ALMOST make the playoffs, doesn't mean the team was actually as good as the record indicated; they tried to build on a 'shaky foundation' and it all came tumbling down.

So no, Bigfoot's assertion is correct; the Organization can say what they want; the proof is in the pudding, and the pudding is deep...like, back to 2010 deep. That's how long our drought has been...

[Mulhollanddrive]

When I first joined here around 2014 it was blasphemy to say we should rebuild let alone through a 4-5 year process via the draft. It probably wasn't until maybe 18-24 months ago that this became an accepted strategy that posters didn't get criticised for.

[NavLDO]

Spoiler:

Especially when we are as close as we are...or can be, if done right. It amazes how our own fans sell our best players short. Maybe not Booker, but I'm just in awe how Warren is still being discussed as a 6th Man, when...

a) He's our 2nd best player, and
b) Well, as I just said, he's our 2nd best player...and numbers 3, 4, and 5 are not even close, and yes even Dudley, for those who somehow still believe he is some how still really good, and
c) Our 3rd best player is already being used from the bench (Len)...and now we want our 2nd best there, too?

Look, we have some vets, mixed in with some youngsters; we have 2nd Rd picks starting while we have two #4 and one #5 overall picks riding the pine, while a 35 YO Center, a 5'10" 20 YO PG lead us into battle every night. This team is grossly mismanaged, but it is not without talent.

I'm not sure what they are doing...or trying to accomplish, to be honest. I REALLY hope McD is just waiting for the desperation that comes with Trade Deadline deals, because if we were actually trying to win, we would be starting:

Canaan / Booker / Warren / Chriss / Len

...and playing a 10-man rotation when Reed is fully back, with Daniels, Reed, JJ, Bender, and Monroe (feel free to replace Len with Monroe if you feel strongly enough about it).

If we did this until near the deadline then traded Chandler and Monroe to teams that are on the cusp and needing a a little bit extra, and went to a 9-man rotation, I have ZERO doubt, we would finish the season somewhere around 36-46--at least.

We have TWO guys that are scoring 20+ a night, and that's with teams KNOWING that they are our only threats. Imagine if we played Daniels 20-25 MPG, Len and Monroe splitting time like 28-20, and if Reed is halfway decent, he, Bender, and Chriss would be nailing 3s, as Chriss and Bender have been doing ok at, the past month (Chriss = .359 ; Bender = .374); at least respectable enough to warrant guarding.

Anyway, we are 15-23 right now, and that is with NOT playing with our optimal roster. There is no reason to try to tank, so we can 'possibly' get a top 5 pick...so can can 'possibly' pick the right prospect. How about we just play to win, trade Monroe, Chandler, and Dudley, if at all possible, for pick(s) or younger players that would do us more good than a playoff roster, this year.

Then, when it's all said and done, we'll evaluate what we have before the draft, and trade up with ALL our picks (Mia Unprotected '21, Mil '20(??), a 2nd or 2, Chriss or Bender and JJ...yes, JJ, to get the best player in the draft that we can manage, that is either a PG or C, and begin next season with Booker, Warren, Chriss, and our Shiny New pick (PG or C).

In order to advance into the playoffs it generally expected that you must have 2 all star level players. Portland has them, New Orleans has them, and even the clippers have them. The Suns on the other hand has one. Warren isnt close to being an All star level talent at small forward. This is just to get into the playoffs. Now in the age of the superteams we are going to need 3 all-star level talents to be able to complete against the Warriors or Houston. In otherwords even if we slip in to the playoffs we are out in the first round and the results are that we lose possible talent in the draft that might have pushed us into the playoffs for the long term next year.

Let me guess. Because TJ doesn't shoot the 3-ball well, right? Being 5th in the league (SFs) in PPG and PER isn't enough, while being top half in TRB, which, BTW, he's #1 in ORB? TJ plays 'differently'; that doesn't mean he's not near 'All-Star level' play. It just means he's an 'All-Star' in a unique way.

And we aren't far from a 'super-team' as you put it; we are building it, rather than buying it. That said, we probably need to 'buy' one. The rest will come from within. So, my point is, we are not far away. We have the assets we need; McD just needs to figure out what to do with these between now and the start of next season. A combination of getting a Combo Guard from the draft plus a Center via a trade, and we are set.

Other teams 'build' via the draft; the All-Stars you speak of didn't just appear from thin air. I still contend that Len could be an All-Star Center, but he'll never get the chance. That's mismanagement of assets. We have our '18 pick + 3 others that do not belong to us in various years, plus JJ and, let's say Bender. Plus we have Monroe and others until the deadline.

That should be enough for us to get Young or Doncic PLUS get a Center, apparently, since Len appears not to be the answer, will surely get us our superteam...

[Saberestar]

Would've been nice but the mistake was spending that money at all. In hindsight it was right to let Amare go even though I wished we paid him the money. He went for the money (as he should) and absolutely dominated for a season (and a half?) then could never stay healthy. Just wished Sarver never went out to spend that money on marginal talent.

I think Amare would’ve stayed healthy for at least 2 seasons with the Suns training staff and with the Suns title window closing and Nash’s age going up, it would’ve been worth the money and risk to give Amare that contract.

In hindsight it makes even more sense since they could’ve just amnestied him once he started breaking down.

But yeah not spending the money at all would’ve been better than spending it on those three.

Amare was running on absolute fumes. I didn't want them to resign him. It was the right move. But what he spent on that budget roster, was a joke.

Look at our last 8 years. Facts. Do you think it was the right move?

Sarver didn't want to pay a player that was a BEAST. We were a title contender for sure with him on the roster for the next couple of seasons. Even with his injuries you have to pay a guy like that, period. It is soooo difficult to be a contender in this league, you must extend that window the max that you can. We have not smell the playoffs since that moment.

I remember that summer pretty well...it was really SAD to watch that phenomenal team disappear so quickly after beating the Spurs 4-0. We could have hav the same exactly roster for the next couple of years at least, but Sarver wanted us to be a rebuilding team.

Losing Amare was everything. What a shame.