GT: Nets (14-22) vs TWolves (24-14) - Wednesday, Jan 3rd 2018, 7:30PM (BROOKYLN BEATS THE NBA REFS BYAAAAAAAAA!)

[TheNetsFan]

G League superstar Milton Doyle changes everything about this conversation. Can't believe we forgot him

you can laugh but having role players making the minimum is vital to a 15 man roster. you cant really pay Staukus/Crabbe/Harris a combined 35 million per year.

This can't be understated. If you had to build the ideal team salary cap, it would very top heavy. I had actually posted the math and team comps once upon a time on ND. I'll have to find it, but basically:

Your target spend is about 110% of the cap.
Your top 3 players should account for 75-80% of the cap.
Your top 4 or 5 should be about 90% of the cap.
That essentially means your bottom half of the roster consists mostly of rookie contracts and minimum salaried players.

Things obviously get skewed if you have young max guys versus older max guys, but on an ideal roster, there's not much room for medium-wage players.

[kamaze]

you can laugh but having role players making the minimum is vital to a 15 man roster. you cant really pay Staukus/Crabbe/Harris a combined 35 million per year.

A guy that's played 17 minutes in the NBA changes this conversation??

If we didn't have Milton Doyle, your answers here would be different?

has less to do with milton doyle and more to do with needing to replace harris with someone who make harris money (minimum).

you cant just pay 10+ million to everyone when you have little talent.

They'll get more talent in the coming years LeVert one year, Jarret Allen the next and they'll continue to draft good.

[kamaze]

Great game the ball movement was beautiful everyone making the extra pass
AC is a good defender 8 rebounds 2 steals and a block he's hot and cold shooting but his defense is always there.

“I’m low-key tired of hearing people trying to question my defense,” said Crabbe after the win over Orlando. “Coming over here in this new role, there’s a lot of expectations now.

“I don’t want to be the liability, especially in film the next day if coach points out things that went wrong that night. Just knowing if my shot is not going, obviously I’ve been in kind of a slump lately, I could impact the game in other ways and I feel like that starts with defense.”

-Dinwiddie scored 20 pts for the eighth time this year.
-shoutout to DMC for playing with a rib injury

[Prokorov]

A guy that's played 17 minutes in the NBA changes this conversation??

If we didn't have Milton Doyle, your answers here would be different?

has less to do with milton doyle and more to do with needing to replace harris with someone who make harris money (minimum).

you cant just pay 10+ million to everyone when you have little talent.

You ducked both questions.

I think we all understand that rosters need to be filled out.

You're questions didnt make much sense. I stated what mattered. no one cares about milton doyle. having a shooter who makes the minimum is what matters whether its doyle or some other g league guy or undrafted guy. so i guess "no" to number 2 as im sure we could find another minimum level shooter without doyle.

for #1, minutes are irrelevant. how many minutes did ben simmons play before this season? how many minutes did any dleague success story play before making it in the NBA? the minutes dont matter at all. especially for young guys

[SpeedyG]

1. As I noted, every season we need to extend a core guy, there are 1 or 2 players that expire that season or following season that essentially washes it out. DMC/Lin for rondae/Russ, mozgov/deron/Crabbe for Levert.

DMC and Lin combine to make 28 million. Russell alone may make 27 million. its not that simple

2. So instead of resigning a good roleplayer and system fit (and insurance for Crabbe) like Harris to $12M contract, we rather keep the $13M cap space so we can add another late 20s 1st round pick while taking in absolutely worthless contracts that further limits our capability in the future when our core guys are actually getting paid?

thats just 1 of many scenarios

Keep Harris as insurance for whatever happens with Crabbe, and use our development team to develop our own 1st and 2nd round picks, buy 2nd round picks, stash players.

you dont pay what harris will make for "insurance" on a 30 win team when you have stauskus anyhow

look i want harris here mroe then anyone. but its almost a 0% chance it happens

1. Its not like Harris is going to break the bank. Like I said, he doesn't move the needle for this team. it's Russell and Rondae that will. He's essentially a mle level type of guy. If we extend Russ AND Rondae (with the assumption that Russ get a 24m first year salary), were pretty much at cap anyway! (Dmc and Lin accounts for Russ, Rondae eats whatever cap space we had left).


2. You absolutely want a guy like Joe on any team in this current NBA environment.

Stauskas isn't proven enough, and is an RFA after this season. I'm definitely not shoo him in as being back. Hes making 3.8 now, so what's his tender? 4-5m? Then after that were back to same scenario as Joe. Besides, Nik is more a replacement for Lin than he is for Crabbe/DMC.

Right now Joe is putting comparable adv stats that korver was before he got to chicago...and he's 3 years younger.

He can easily move into that SF spot after DMC and Crabbe are gone.

That's worth mle level money.

[Prokorov]

1. As I noted, every season we need to extend a core guy, there are 1 or 2 players that expire that season or following season that essentially washes it out. DMC/Lin for rondae/Russ, mozgov/deron/Crabbe for Levert.

DMC and Lin combine to make 28 million. Russell alone may make 27 million. its not that simple

2. So instead of resigning a good roleplayer and system fit (and insurance for Crabbe) like Harris to $12M contract, we rather keep the $13M cap space so we can add another late 20s 1st round pick while taking in absolutely worthless contracts that further limits our capability in the future when our core guys are actually getting paid?

thats just 1 of many scenarios

Keep Harris as insurance for whatever happens with Crabbe, and use our development team to develop our own 1st and 2nd round picks, buy 2nd round picks, stash players.

you dont pay what harris will make for "insurance" on a 30 win team when you have stauskus anyhow

look i want harris here mroe then anyone. but its almost a 0% chance it happens

1. Its not like Harris is going to break the bank. Like I said, he doesn't move the needle for this team. it's Russell and Rondae that will. He's essentially a mle level type of guy. If we extend Russ AND Rondae (with the assumption that Russ get a 24m first year salary), were pretty much at cap anyway! (Dmc and Lin accounts for Russ, Rondae eats whatever cap space we had left).


2. You absolutely want a guy like Joe on any team in this current NBA environment.

Stauskas isn't proven enough, and is an RFA after this season. I'm definitely not shoo him in as being back. Hes making 3.8 now, so what's his tender? 4-5m? Then after that were back to same scenario as Joe. Besides, Nik is more a replacement for Lin than he is for Crabbe/DMC.

Right now Joe is putting comparable adv stats that korver was before he got to chicago...and he's 3 years younger.

He can easily move into that SF spot after DMC and Crabbe are gone.

That's worth mle level money.

we cant afford to pay crabbe/harris/stauskus a combined 35 million. too much for a trio fo bench guys. Staukus is far and away the most talented of the 3. the move is to give him the 1 year QO and hope he pans out. Harris no longer has value to us at 10 million per year. we are better off fidning the next harris on a minimum deal. you can sustain cap flezibility or not enter cap hell continuing to pay bench role players 10-19 million per year.

its moot either way, as marks said he wont cap out a 30 win team. id put the odds of harris being back somewhere between 0-5%.

he is likely traded in the next month or so. sucks cause dude is a good guy and good fit.

[SpeedyG]

Jeez Stauskas is suddenly a guy we can't let go? He's barely played 10 games. And again, even assuming we do bring him back, from a salary breakdown he falls in the Guard umbrella...with Caris and Russell.

If anything, he's the guy likely not to be signed to a long term deal because that would mean 50M plus on three guards.

DMC will be gone in a year. Crabbe hopefully in a year or two (depending on opt in). We have no other SF candidates in this team (unless Rondae extends his range and makes a permanent move to SF, which I'm not sure is still the long term plan for him by this team despite his improvements).

[Prokorov]

Jeez Stauskas is suddenly a guy we can't let go? He's barely played 10 games. And again, even assuming we do bring him back, from a salary breakdown he falls in the Guard umbrella...with Caris and Russell.

If anything, he's the guy likely not to be signed to a long term deal because that would mean 50M plus on three guards.

Harris falls in that same role. both are SG/SF. Staukus ceiling is 2 to 3 times what harris is. Staukus could be a legit NBA starter/scorer not just a shooter. There is a reason he was a lotto pick. He is much more talented then crabbe or harris.

and we only need to give him a 1 year QO. if he proves his worth thats a GOOD thing. it means he realized his lotto potential and we can match any offer.

DMC will be gone in a year. Crabbe hopefully in a year or two (depending on opt in). We have no other SF candidates in this team (unless Rondae extends his range and makes a permanent move to SF, which I'm not sure is still the long term plan for him by this team despite his improvements).

We would be candidates to draft a SF sometime in the next 3 seasons. i dont see that as even a minor concern.

[Roy Tarpley]

I don't think Stauskas's ceiling was 2-3 times better than Harris in college, his college stats are only slightly better than Harris's. And in the NBA, Harris's numbers are slight better than Stauskas's.

But you're right that Harris at $10m loses his value.

[SpeedyG]

Jeez Stauskas is suddenly a guy we can't let go? He's barely played 10 games. And again, even assuming we do bring him back, from a salary breakdown he falls in the Guard umbrella...with Caris and Russell.

If anything, he's the guy likely not to be signed to a long term deal because that would mean 50M plus on three guards.

Harris falls in that same role. both are SG/SF. Staukus ceiling is 2 to 3 times what harris is. Staukus could be a legit NBA starter/scorer not just a shooter. There is a reason he was a lotto pick. He is much more talented then crabbe or harris.

and we only need to give him a 1 year QO. if he proves his worth thats a GOOD thing. it means he realized his lotto potential and we can match any offer.

DMC will be gone in a year. Crabbe hopefully in a year or two (depending on opt in). We have no other SF candidates in this team (unless Rondae extends his range and makes a permanent move to SF, which I'm not sure is still the long term plan for him by this team despite his improvements).

We would be candidates to draft a SF sometime in the next 3 seasons. i dont see that as even a minor concern.

Stauskas is PG/SG and we've used him as such especially in the absence of Caris.

[TheNetsFan]

Jeez Stauskas is suddenly a guy we can't let go? He's barely played 10 games. And again, even assuming we do bring him back, from a salary breakdown he falls in the Guard umbrella...with Caris and Russell.

If anything, he's the guy likely not to be signed to a long term deal because that would mean 50M plus on three guards.

Harris falls in that same role. both are SG/SF. Staukus ceiling is 2 to 3 times what harris is. Staukus could be a legit NBA starter/scorer not just a shooter. There is a reason he was a lotto pick. He is much more talented then crabbe or harris.

and we only need to give him a 1 year QO. if he proves his worth thats a GOOD thing. it means he realized his lotto potential and we can match any offer.

Stauskas absolutely has more upside than Harris. He's faster, he's a better ball handler & he's a more capable distributor. This offense is predicated on pace, space & the ability for players to put the ball on the floor to attack. Stauskas has the ability to develop & thrive in that regard.

We need to be careful banking on expecting that he only gets the 1 year qualifying offer. We need to extend him that to make him a free agent, but he doesn't need to sign that. He's free to sign a longer term or more lucrative deal with us or anyone else. He's likely to fetch a larger contract than Harris is in my opinion. Teams pay for the potential of what's to come for players coming off of their rookie deals, so even just flashes of potential could earn him a decent payday.

[treiz]

We're going to be near the cap regardless unless we let guys like Russell and rondae go. Joe for even $12m doesn't really move the needle: you'll end up spending that on some rotational player anyway.

Its the $20 plus million that some anticipate guys like Russell/Rondae/Caris could get that will dictate whether were a capped out treadmill team or not.

But as I said in my post...do we want to be making a decision on whether to resign Crabbe at whatever salary he's going to command with OR without Joe? Keep in mind Carroll expires after next season.

For me that's an easy answer.

Sign Joe for a reasonable deal (nothing more than $12M is absolute max I'll go, similar to Lin current contract).

If Crabbe opts out, good riddance. If he opts in, he's an expiring deal and I'll roll with Joe.

If some young guy develops through draft or dleague and outplays Joe, you can still move him because his skillset is in demand in todays league.

Sorry there must've been a misunderstanding. I agree with the notion of keeping Harris as long as the contract is reasonable and he's the best option available (depends on what your definition of reasonable is), but trying to rely on 2nd round picks and stash players to try and improve this team when we're over the cap is not really a viable solution. We need to convert those picks into something more tangible, and so we still need to be engaged in talent acquisition.

[Prokorov]

Jeez Stauskas is suddenly a guy we can't let go? He's barely played 10 games. And again, even assuming we do bring him back, from a salary breakdown he falls in the Guard umbrella...with Caris and Russell.

If anything, he's the guy likely not to be signed to a long term deal because that would mean 50M plus on three guards.

Harris falls in that same role. both are SG/SF. Staukus ceiling is 2 to 3 times what harris is. Staukus could be a legit NBA starter/scorer not just a shooter. There is a reason he was a lotto pick. He is much more talented then crabbe or harris.

and we only need to give him a 1 year QO. if he proves his worth thats a GOOD thing. it means he realized his lotto potential and we can match any offer.

Stauskas absolutely has more upside than Harris. He's faster, he's a better ball handler & he's a more capable distributor. This offense is predicated on pace, space & the ability for players to put the ball on the floor to attack. Stauskas has the ability to develop & thrive in that regard.

We need to be careful banking on expecting that he only gets the 1 year qualifying offer. We need to extend him that to make him a free agent, but he doesn't need to sign that. He's free to sign a longer term or more lucrative deal with us or anyone else. He's likely to fetch a larger contract than Harris is in my opinion. Teams pay for the potential of what's to come for players coming off of their rookie deals, so even just flashes of potential could earn him a decent payday.

i think he would play on the QO under the assumption less now means more later.... he will likely get more time and a bigger role here then anyone else and that leads to a bigger payday. then again i can see someone throwing stupid crabbe/bazemore money at him too so who knows.

this offseason will be when we see how much our culture/staff/way of doing things matters from an FA standpoint