Are NBA changes necessary?

[Spud2nique]

In order to bring the big man game back to the league. I know it has happened over the last 20 years slowly and gradually, but over the last 5-7 years it seems the bigs are all endangered. Was it a bunch of rule changes? 3sec paint? How can we get it back? Do we want it back?

I understand the fans like running and gunning and a fast paced game is even better visually for the average fan. But my question is why are we trying to change the entire game just to please fans? I mean, people who know the NBA and know it well like to watch some good defense as well....not 60 3's being launched every game.


I don't think it's fair to push the big man position out of the league. We need to go back to the roots of the game IMO.

Thoughts?

[jayu70]

I think it starts in AAU and most definitely college. The fundamentals of playing in the post aren't being taught at a young age. NBA teams have no time to teach that from scratch - footwork, balance, positioning etc.

[kg01]

I do think there needs to be a snap back to normal. Recent rule changes have forced the game to be overly perimeter-oriented.

The best way I've heard it explained is that the game is called similarly to the 80's-90's in the post whereby guys are allowed to mug each other with relative impunity. At one point, they restricted defenders to putting the bent-arm on a guy posting up. Now it's basically the bent-arm and a hand.

Meanwhile, if you give a guy a stern look out on the perimeter you might get a flagrant-7.

The natural response is for guys to gravitate towards where the game (i.e. scoring) is easiest. Sure, 3pters are more difficult than 2's but does it even out considering you know you'll be able to get the shot off without contact?

Why was the game changed to please the fans? I'm $ure you under$tand the rea$on$ behind tho$e deci$ion$.

The solution, to me, is to find that happy medium. Slide the foul meter back to normal. I'm not saying I want the early 90's back but we certainly need things tougher on the perimeter. It's seems clear that even casual fans have become frustrated with the light whistle and gamesmanship for guys like Har_en, Durant and others playing to the whistle then whining after for a foul.

They supposedly have changed things like disallowing the rip-through but the refs aren't always responding.

Long story short, call more perimeter fouls (but not too many) and it'll even out the risk/reward scenario between jackin' 3's and throwing the ball in to the post.

Another change needs to be disallowing non-captains from speaking/complaining to the refs. Whatever happened to the 'no-tolerance' policy on talking to the refs? At one point, they were auto-T'ing guys to curtail the constant complaining. How about enforcing this rule thereby empowering the refs to call the game as the rules intended. As it is, they're scared to call fouls for fear of incessant complaining.

[Jamaaliver]

I think a dominant inside scorer can still lead a top team and an elite offense.

But that same big man has to be agile/swift enough to guard shooters on the perimeter and in the PnR.

I'd much rather my Center shoot 65% from the paint than 35% from 3-pt land.

We just need the bigs to do it.

(D Ayton...where are you?!?)

NOTE: To discourage so much three point shooting, the league will eventually need to push the line back even further. Thus encouraging more mid range shots as an alternate version of spacing the floor.

[kg01]

I think a dominant inside scorer can still lead a top team and an elite offense.

But that same big man has to be agile/swift enough to guard shooters on the perimeter and in the PnR.

I'd much rather my Center shoot 65% from the paint than 35% from 3-pt land.

We just need the bigs to do it.

(D Ayton...where are you?!?)

NOTE: To discourage so much three point shooting, the league will eventually need to push the line back even further. Thus encouraging more mid range shots as an alternate version of spacing the floor.

What scares me about this is I think teams will just come up with a lower threshold for 3pt shooting to justify whether or not the shots "make sense". Right now I think most teams look at like 35% or so as a perfectly justifiable shooting percentage for a big to shoot 3's. Push the line back and they'll just say 30% is acceptable.

[Spud2nique]

Excellent points from all of you...I don't know I just miss 80's 90's ball where players were players and each had certain skill sets that made watching more enjoyable...now it's literally who can design the best game plan to shoot the most 3's...3's were fun when not everybody could shoot them.

Now I'll be looking forward to a Rockets Warriors matchup and watch Harden/Curry take 20 3's between them...smh..

#80'smagicbirdakeemniquezeke

[kg01]

Excellent points from all of you...I don't know I just miss 80's 90's ball where players were players and each had certain skill sets that made watching more enjoyable...now it's literally who can design the best game plan to shoot the most 3's...3's were fun when not everybody could shoot them.

Now I'll be looking forward to a Rockets Warriors matchup and watch Harden/Curry take 20 3's between them...smh..

#80'smagicbirdakeemniquezeke

That's an eggcellent point, spud2. You're getting the year off to a good start.

One thing I miss about that era was the diversity of play. We're trending towards everybody wanting to have the same skillset. That will get boring real fast. It's why I stopped watching NFL years ago. All it is now is 30 teams trying to be and do the same thing.

No, let's not run the ball. Let's just throw 2 yd passes the whole way down field.

Yawn ...

[jayu70]

Excellent points from all of you...I don't know I just miss 80's 90's ball where players were players and each had certain skill sets that made watching more enjoyable...now it's literally who can design the best game plan to shoot the most 3's...3's were fun when not everybody could shoot them.

Now I'll be looking forward to a Rockets Warriors matchup and watch Harden/Curry take 20 3's between them...smh..

#80'smagicbirdakeemniquezeke

That's an eggcellent point, spud2. You're getting the year off to a good start.

One thing I miss about that era was the diversity of play. We're trending towards everybody wanting to have the same skillset. That will get boring real fast. It's why I stopped watching NFL years ago. All it is now is 30 teams trying to be and do the same thing.

No, let's not run the ball. Let's just throw 2 yd passes the whole way down field.

Yawn ...

Spud ended 2017 skrong with his game day research and write up, now trending up even further in 2018. Save us.

[kg01]

Excellent points from all of you...I don't know I just miss 80's 90's ball where players were players and each had certain skill sets that made watching more enjoyable...now it's literally who can design the best game plan to shoot the most 3's...3's were fun when not everybody could shoot them.

Now I'll be looking forward to a Rockets Warriors matchup and watch Harden/Curry take 20 3's between them...smh..

#80'smagicbirdakeemniquezeke

That's an eggcellent point, spud2. You're getting the year off to a good start.

One thing I miss about that era was the diversity of play. We're trending towards everybody wanting to have the same skillset. That will get boring real fast. It's why I stopped watching NFL years ago. All it is now is 30 teams trying to be and do the same thing.

No, let's not run the ball. Let's just throw 2 yd passes the whole way down field.

Yawn ...

Spud ended 2017 skrong with his game day research and write up, now trending up even further in 2018. Save us.

He's either off his meds .. or back on them. Either way, like you said, jebus sabe us

[Spud2nique]

Haha I got in contact with your ole pal Gonzo..

[kg01]

Haha I got in contact with your ole pal Gonzo..

Oh wow, surprised he's not staking out someone's house in Houston.

Hope he's doing well.

[MaceCase]

I'm not sure I understand the OP. The big man is not dead, the center position alone is in the midst of a renaissance with talented youth at the position all over the league with even more youngns' getting their heads shaved lining up to get shot into the ionosphere like space monkeys.

If you're wondering about the back-to-the-basket big man specifically?....well I'll fill you in on a not-so-secret....

The nerds, the owners, the GMs, the coaches, even the players went back and compiled allllll of those tapes and boxscores and they looked at all of those sweeping skyhooks, shimmy-shammy turn around flails, running putt shots, 18 seconds backing the defender down and you know what they found?

%*@#& your nostalgia

Even a great post player wasn't putting up points at the same efficiency as a mediocre shooter. While one team is squeezing 23 seconds out of the clock so one guy can set his man up for a backdown and wild toss at the rim other teams were putting up 3 shots in the same amount of time. The Thibodeaus figured out even in a time of illegal defenses that "hey, we can blitz the strong side on bigs, heck all iso players. Force those guys to learn geometry to make a pass or put a shot up over 3 defenders".

In closing, what a lot of old heads thought was "good defense" back in the day was really just bad offense.

[Spud2nique]

I'm not sure I understand the OP. The big man is not dead, the center position alone is in the midst of a renaissance with talented youth at the position all over the league with even more youngns' getting their heads shaved lining up to get shot into the ionosphere like space monkeys.

If you're wondering about the back-to-the-basket big man specifically?....well I'll fill you in on a not-so-secret....

The nerds, the owners, the GMs, the coaches, even the players went back and compiled allllll of those tapes and boxscores and they looked at all of those sweeping skyhooks, shimmy-shammy turn around flails, running putt shots, 18 seconds backing the defender down and you know what they found?

%*@#& your nostalgia

Even a great post player wasn't putting up points at the same efficiency as a mediocre shooter. While one team is squeezing 23 seconds out of the clock so one guy can set his man up for a backdown and wild toss at the rim other teams were putting up 3 shots in the same amount of time. The Thibodeaus figured out even in a time of illegal defenses that "hey, we can blitz the strong side on bigs, heck all iso players. Force those guys to learn geometry to make a pass or put a shot up over 3 defenders".

In closing, what a lot of old heads thought was "good defense" back in the day was really just bad offense.

First off, you know my name...I'm not OP, I'm GOAT!

Secondly, you can state that it was bad offense and that could be true to some degree, but the defense, at least one on one D was much tighter and stronger. Hand check rule made little punks matter in the league. I'm telling you, put an Alvin Robertson on Melo, he'd shut him down! Ok Melo is a bad example because he's a glorified jump shooter but anyone even more significant in the league. You can check out old youtube footage or just try and recall, 80's D was a lot better than today. I'm not saying there weren't guys that were chcukers on offense like Michael Adams, but overall the league seemed more interesting.

[MaceCase]

I'm not sure I understand the OP. The big man is not dead, the center position alone is in the midst of a renaissance with talented youth at the position all over the league with even more youngns' getting their heads shaved lining up to get shot into the ionosphere like space monkeys.

If you're wondering about the back-to-the-basket big man specifically?....well I'll fill you in on a not-so-secret....

The nerds, the owners, the GMs, the coaches, even the players went back and compiled allllll of those tapes and boxscores and they looked at all of those sweeping skyhooks, shimmy-shammy turn around flails, running putt shots, 18 seconds backing the defender down and you know what they found?

%*@#& your nostalgia

Even a great post player wasn't putting up points at the same efficiency as a mediocre shooter. While one team is squeezing 23 seconds out of the clock so one guy can set his man up for a backdown and wild toss at the rim other teams were putting up 3 shots in the same amount of time. The Thibodeaus figured out even in a time of illegal defenses that "hey, we can blitz the strong side on bigs, heck all iso players. Force those guys to learn geometry to make a pass or put a shot up over 3 defenders".

In closing, what a lot of old heads thought was "good defense" back in the day was really just bad offense.

First off, you know my name...I'm not OP, I'm GOAT!

Secondly, you can state that it was bad offense and that could be true to some degree, but the defense, at least one on one D was much tighter and stronger. Hand check rule made little punks matter in the league. I'm telling you, put an Alvin Robertson on Melo, he'd shut him down! Ok Melo is a bad example because he's a glorified jump shooter but anyone even more significant in the league. You can check out old youtube footage or just try and recall, 80's D was a lot better than today. I'm not saying there weren't guys that were chcukers on offense like Michael Adams, but overall the league seemed more interesting.

Well a guy like Melo would love to have been born 20 years earlier. His inefficient brand of ball would have been great in a league where zone defenses were illegal and he would have been forced to be defended one on one only.

[graymule]

The three ball is here to stay. With the floor spread to defend all those behind the arch, it opens up the floor
for the big man. If he has good hands to catch and the ability to score inside, great! If he has hands of stone,
or, if he can't score or pass the ball after he gets it he's practically useless. Can he move? Or, is he glued to
the floor? Is his greatest jump 2" ?

If I was making the rules, the 4 point line would be the center line. Any shot from beyond the center of the
floor would be good for 4 points. We don't see many of these, except when time is expiring. Even as a three,
when they are hit, we get excited. This change would just be something else for the defense to worry about.
They wouldn't have to worry long, just 8 seconds.

[macd-gm]

I'm not sure I understand the OP. The big man is not dead, the center position alone is in the midst of a renaissance with talented youth at the position all over the league with even more youngns' getting their heads shaved lining up to get shot into the ionosphere like space monkeys.

If you're wondering about the back-to-the-basket big man specifically?....well I'll fill you in on a not-so-secret....

The nerds, the owners, the GMs, the coaches, even the players went back and compiled allllll of those tapes and boxscores and they looked at all of those sweeping skyhooks, shimmy-shammy turn around flails, running putt shots, 18 seconds backing the defender down and you know what they found?

%*@#& your nostalgia

Even a great post player wasn't putting up points at the same efficiency as a mediocre shooter. While one team is squeezing 23 seconds out of the clock so one guy can set his man up for a backdown and wild toss at the rim other teams were putting up 3 shots in the same amount of time. The Thibodeaus figured out even in a time of illegal defenses that "hey, we can blitz the strong side on bigs, heck all iso players. Force those guys to learn geometry to make a pass or put a shot up over 3 defenders".

In closing, what a lot of old heads thought was "good defense" back in the day was really just bad offense.

This exactly. Dumping into the post, especially over and over again, is inefficient unless the guy has about a 70% chance of scoring. And even then you better be really great at defending the 3. While I liked to watch Moses and Malone work in the post, the games now are much more exciting.

[kg01]

I'm not sure I understand the OP. The big man is not dead, the center position alone is in the midst of a renaissance with talented youth at the position all over the league with even more youngns' getting their heads shaved lining up to get shot into the ionosphere like space monkeys.

If you're wondering about the back-to-the-basket big man specifically?....well I'll fill you in on a not-so-secret....

The nerds, the owners, the GMs, the coaches, even the players went back and compiled allllll of those tapes and boxscores and they looked at all of those sweeping skyhooks, shimmy-shammy turn around flails, running putt shots, 18 seconds backing the defender down and you know what they found?

%*@#& your nostalgia

Even a great post player wasn't putting up points at the same efficiency as a mediocre shooter. While one team is squeezing 23 seconds out of the clock so one guy can set his man up for a backdown and wild toss at the rim other teams were putting up 3 shots in the same amount of time. The Thibodeaus figured out even in a time of illegal defenses that "hey, we can blitz the strong side on bigs, heck all iso players. Force those guys to learn geometry to make a pass or put a shot up over 3 defenders".

In closing, what a lot of old heads thought was "good defense" back in the day was really just bad offense.

This exactly. Dumping into the post, especially over and over again, is inefficient unless the guy has about a 70% chance of scoring. And even then you better be really great at defending the 3. While I liked to watch Moses and Malone work in the post, the games now are much more exciting.

I just think it's amazing you were able to watch Moses and Malone. Did you ever watch Kevin and Willis?

(Pending his answer, somebody get a psychiatrist on the line.)

[macd-gm]

I'm not sure I understand the OP. The big man is not dead, the center position alone is in the midst of a renaissance with talented youth at the position all over the league with even more youngns' getting their heads shaved lining up to get shot into the ionosphere like space monkeys.

If you're wondering about the back-to-the-basket big man specifically?....well I'll fill you in on a not-so-secret....

The nerds, the owners, the GMs, the coaches, even the players went back and compiled allllll of those tapes and boxscores and they looked at all of those sweeping skyhooks, shimmy-shammy turn around flails, running putt shots, 18 seconds backing the defender down and you know what they found?

%*@#& your nostalgia

Even a great post player wasn't putting up points at the same efficiency as a mediocre shooter. While one team is squeezing 23 seconds out of the clock so one guy can set his man up for a backdown and wild toss at the rim other teams were putting up 3 shots in the same amount of time. The Thibodeaus figured out even in a time of illegal defenses that "hey, we can blitz the strong side on bigs, heck all iso players. Force those guys to learn geometry to make a pass or put a shot up over 3 defenders".

In closing, what a lot of old heads thought was "good defense" back in the day was really just bad offense.

This exactly. Dumping into the post, especially over and over again, is inefficient unless the guy has about a 70% chance of scoring. And even then you better be really great at defending the 3. While I liked to watch Moses and Malone work in the post, the games now are much more exciting.

I just think it's amazing you were able to watch Moses and Malone. Did you ever watch Kevin and Willis?

(Pending his answer, somebody get a psychiatrist on the line.)

[kg01]

This exactly. Dumping into the post, especially over and over again, is inefficient unless the guy has about a 70% chance of scoring. And even then you better be really great at defending the 3. While I liked to watch Moses and Malone work in the post, the games now are much more exciting.

I just think it's amazing you were able to watch Moses and Malone. Did you ever watch Kevin and Willis?

(Pending his answer, somebody get a psychiatrist on the line.)

Nice save, weirdo.

[Spud2nique]

I'm not sure I understand the OP. The big man is not dead, the center position alone is in the midst of a renaissance with talented youth at the position all over the league with even more youngns' getting their heads shaved lining up to get shot into the ionosphere like space monkeys.

If you're wondering about the back-to-the-basket big man specifically?....well I'll fill you in on a not-so-secret....

The nerds, the owners, the GMs, the coaches, even the players went back and compiled allllll of those tapes and boxscores and they looked at all of those sweeping skyhooks, shimmy-shammy turn around flails, running putt shots, 18 seconds backing the defender down and you know what they found?

%*@#& your nostalgia

Even a great post player wasn't putting up points at the same efficiency as a mediocre shooter. While one team is squeezing 23 seconds out of the clock so one guy can set his man up for a backdown and wild toss at the rim other teams were putting up 3 shots in the same amount of time. The Thibodeaus figured out even in a time of illegal defenses that "hey, we can blitz the strong side on bigs, heck all iso players. Force those guys to learn geometry to make a pass or put a shot up over 3 defenders".

In closing, what a lot of old heads thought was "good defense" back in the day was really just bad offense.

This exactly. Dumping into the post, especially over and over again, is inefficient unless the guy has about a 70% chance of scoring. And even then you better be really great at defending the 3. While I liked to watch Moses and Malone work in the post, the games now are much more exciting.

I just think it's amazing you were able to watch Moses and Malone. Did you ever watch Kevin and Willis?

(Pending his answer, somebody get a psychiatrist on the line.)

Shawn and Kemp were sick!

Mac's taking speech lessons from Kenny "sky" Walker of the Knicks ...(long live 87)...


I kid I kid