Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 4

[NTB]

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[NavLDO]

Yeah no, he's not playing at an all-star level. He's scoring fairly efficiently from 2. Dude avgs 1ast, less and than a steal, shoots 18% from 3. Decent year, not anywhere near all star level. Using PER as barometer isnt exactly a good way to measure overall performance.

And Assts and 3PT%s, and STLs in vacuum are? How about you compare STLs to other Starting SFs, oh look, he's on par with the league average at his position. Let's look at Assts...21st amongst other starters, so top of the lower 3rd. Yep, he's bum. Let's forget about all these other areas he ranks against "starting" SFs

FTAs = 5th
FT% = 9th (for those with more than 100 FTAs)
FG% = 7th
2PT% = 3rd
PPG = 5th (And did you know the next 5 all play more MPG than he does?)
ORB = 1st
TRB/gm = 9th (PJ doesn't count, since he plays most minutes at PF)
TOs/gm = 13th
Blks/gm = 12th
Dbl-dbls = 6th

But hey, let's look at Assts, the most critical skillset for a SF, 2nd only to Stls, of course, and deem him "not anywhere near an all star level"

I almost hope we do trade him to a team with fans that would actually covet him for what he is.
let's take a look here...yep, these guys will do...how about...

Joe Ingles. A little light on the Steals...only half of Warren's, what was it? 'less than a steal' (.95), but he has 3X the assists at 4.2...AND he's shooting .435 from 3...never mind the fact he can't shoot from TWO (.440 FG%), averages just 75% of TRB, 28% of Blks, and 50% of Pts.

or if Stls are more important, we could go after...

Josh Richardson. He's averaging about 25% more than Warren in Stls, so he should be ideal. Plus, he averages 70% more Assts than Warren, too. Then add in his .358 vs .177 3PT%. Surely , he's much better than Warren, and closer to and All-Star than Warren. Never mind his 55% of TRB, or 65% of PPG.

Bottom line, you are trying make your point based upon 3 skillsets that are secondary in importance.

Let me ask you this. When fans, media, whoever, talk about a Forward and what he 'slashed', what numbers are placed in that 'stat' that is quoted? Stls?? Asts?? 3PT%?? No. When someone says Warren 'slashed' 21/5.5 the month of December, they are saying he scored 21 Pts and 5.5 TRB per game. Those are the 2 stats that REALLY matter...everything else is complimentary.

If Warren can't shoot 3PT shots, then we will have to rely on our other positions to provide this aspect of our offense, and with Booker, Bender or Chriss, and whatever PG/Combo Guard we employ next season, we can surely cover using that 60% of our offensive positions for our 3s.

[Waylay13]

Yeah no, he's not playing at an all-star level. He's scoring fairly efficiently from 2. Dude avgs 1ast, less and than a steal, shoots 18% from 3. Decent year, not anywhere near all star level. Using PER as barometer isnt exactly a good way to measure overall performance.

And Assts and 3PT%s, and STLs in vacuum are? How about you compare STLs to other Starting SFs, oh look, he's on par with the league average at his position. Let's look at Assts...21st amongst other starters, so top of the lower 3rd. Yep, he's bum. Let's forget about all these other areas he ranks against "starting" SFs

FTAs = 5th
FT% = 9th (for those with more than 100 FTAs)
FG% = 7th
2PT% = 3rd
PPG = 5th (And did you know the next 5 all play more MPG than he does?)
ORB = 1st
TRB/gm = 9th (PJ doesn't count, since he plays most minutes at PF)
TOs/gm = 13th
Blks/gm = 12th
Dbl-dbls = 6th

But hey, let's look at Assts, the most critical skillset for a SF, 2nd only to Stls, of course, and deem him "not anywhere near an all star level"

I almost hope we do trade him to a team with fans that would actually covet him for what he is.
let's take a look here...yep, these guys will do...how about...

Joe Ingles. A little light on the Steals...only half of Warren's, what was it? 'less than a steal' (.95), but he has 3X the assists at 4.2...AND he's shooting .435 from 3...never mind the fact he can't shoot from TWO (.440 FG%), averages just 75% of TRB, 28% of Blks, and 50% of Pts.

or if Stls are more important, we could go after...

Josh Richardson. He's averaging about 25% more than Warren in Stls, so he should be ideal. Plus, he averages 70% more Assts than Warren, too. Then add in his .358 vs .177 3PT%. Surely , he's much better than Warren, and closer to and All-Star than Warren. Never mind his 55% of TRB, or 65% of PPG.

Bottom line, you are trying make your point based upon 3 skillsets that are secondary in importance.

Let me ask you this. When fans, media, whoever, talk about a Forward and what he 'slashed', what numbers are placed in that 'stat' that is quoted? Stls?? Asts?? 3PT%?? No. When someone says Warren 'slashed' 21/5.5 the month of December, they are saying he scored 21 Pts and 5.5 TRB per game. Those are the 2 stats that REALLY matter...everything else is complimentary.

If Warren can't shoot 3PT shots, then we will have to rely on our other positions to provide this aspect of our offense, and with Booker, Bender or Chriss, and whatever PG/Combo Guard we employ next season, we can surely cover using that 60% of our offensive positions for our 3s.

Lets compare him with the last small forward that the Suns had that was an All-star in Shawn Marion. Does he defend? Marion does. Does he rebound high numbers nightly? Marion did. Block shots? Marion did. Great outside shooter? nope both of them are not that good. Steals? Marion. Asssists? Marion? Do the little things that make the team successful? Marion. Can Warren get better? Yes but he hasnt really added anything to his game since college where he was known as an amazing mid range shooter but nothing more. Warren is a secondary player to Booker who is a 3d player but you get more out of him if you are covering his weakness or making it easier for him to do his job. Warren doesnt defend or spread the floor to make it easier for Booker. That is why he would be an amazing 6 man but he is no where close to being an all-star level talent.

[bwgood77]

Yeah no, he's not playing at an all-star level. He's scoring fairly efficiently from 2. Dude avgs 1ast, less and than a steal, shoots 18% from 3. Decent year, not anywhere near all star level. Using PER as barometer isnt exactly a good way to measure overall performance.

And Assts and 3PT%s, and STLs in vacuum are? How about you compare STLs to other Starting SFs, oh look, he's on par with the league average at his position. Let's look at Assts...21st amongst other starters, so top of the lower 3rd. Yep, he's bum. Let's forget about all these other areas he ranks against "starting" SFs

FTAs = 5th
FT% = 9th (for those with more than 100 FTAs)
FG% = 7th
2PT% = 3rd
PPG = 5th (And did you know the next 5 all play more MPG than he does?)
ORB = 1st
TRB/gm = 9th (PJ doesn't count, since he plays most minutes at PF)
TOs/gm = 13th
Blks/gm = 12th
Dbl-dbls = 6th

But hey, let's look at Assts, the most critical skillset for a SF, 2nd only to Stls, of course, and deem him "not anywhere near an all star level"

I almost hope we do trade him to a team with fans that would actually covet him for what he is.
let's take a look here...yep, these guys will do...how about...

Joe Ingles. A little light on the Steals...only half of Warren's, what was it? 'less than a steal' (.95), but he has 3X the assists at 4.2...AND he's shooting .435 from 3...never mind the fact he can't shoot from TWO (.440 FG%), averages just 75% of TRB, 28% of Blks, and 50% of Pts.

or if Stls are more important, we could go after...

Josh Richardson. He's averaging about 25% more than Warren in Stls, so he should be ideal. Plus, he averages 70% more Assts than Warren, too. Then add in his .358 vs .177 3PT%. Surely , he's much better than Warren, and closer to and All-Star than Warren. Never mind his 55% of TRB, or 65% of PPG.

Bottom line, you are trying make your point based upon 3 skillsets that are secondary in importance.

Let me ask you this. When fans, media, whoever, talk about a Forward and what he 'slashed', what numbers are placed in that 'stat' that is quoted? Stls?? Asts?? 3PT%?? No. When someone says Warren 'slashed' 21/5.5 the month of December, they are saying he scored 21 Pts and 5.5 TRB per game. Those are the 2 stats that REALLY matter...everything else is complimentary.

If Warren can't shoot 3PT shots, then we will have to rely on our other positions to provide this aspect of our offense, and with Booker, Bender or Chriss, and whatever PG/Combo Guard we employ next season, we can surely cover using that 60% of our offensive positions for our 3s.

Lets compare him with the last small forward that the Suns had that was an All-star in Shawn Marion. Does he defend? Marion does. Does he rebound high numbers nightly? Marion did. Block shots? Marion did. Great outside shooter? nope both of them are not that good. Steals? Marion. Asssists? Marion? Do the little things that make the team successful? Marion. Can Warren get better? Yes but he hasnt really added anything to his game since college where he was known as an amazing mid range shooter but nothing more. Warren is a secondary player to Booker who is a 3d player but you get more out of him if you are covering his weakness or making it easier for him to do his job. Warren doesnt defend or spread the floor to make it easier for Booker. That is why he would be an amazing 6 man but he is no where close to being an all-star level talent.

Good example. Marion was an all around all star caliber player. He defended, rebounded, put shots back, developed an ok 3 pt shot, etc.

I love Warren and watching him play, and he might be one my favorite Suns, but he's not more than an elite mid/short range and motion scorer at this point. He has had some nice rebounding games, and he has played ok defense here and there, and had 4 steals and 5 assists the other night. If he adds more to his game, and I hope that he can, he can take the next step. But he HAS to become either a good defender or a good 3 pt shooter to really take the next step.

Yes, many scoring metrics, outside of TS% or eFG% or raw stat #s or straight FG% will make him look good because he doesn't shoot 3s.

But he can still evolve in some of these areas. Oladipo and Tobias Harris have taken major steps and are both in all star conversations at this point while in their second contracts. I think he can add some things to his game, but these arguments with various cherry picked raw stats get redundant and begin to sound like a broken record.

[TOO]

Yeah no, he's not playing at an all-star level. He's scoring fairly efficiently from 2. Dude avgs 1ast, less and than a steal, shoots 18% from 3. Decent year, not anywhere near all star level. Using PER as barometer isnt exactly a good way to measure overall performance.

And Assts and 3PT%s, and STLs in vacuum are? How about you compare STLs to other Starting SFs, oh look, he's on par with the league average at his position. Let's look at Assts...21st amongst other starters, so top of the lower 3rd. Yep, he's bum. Let's forget about all these other areas he ranks against "starting" SFs

FTAs = 5th
FT% = 9th (for those with more than 100 FTAs)
FG% = 7th
2PT% = 3rd
PPG = 5th (And did you know the next 5 all play more MPG than he does?)
ORB = 1st
TRB/gm = 9th (PJ doesn't count, since he plays most minutes at PF)
TOs/gm = 13th
Blks/gm = 12th
Dbl-dbls = 6th

But hey, let's look at Assts, the most critical skillset for a SF, 2nd only to Stls, of course, and deem him "not anywhere near an all star level"

I almost hope we do trade him to a team with fans that would actually covet him for what he is.
let's take a look here...yep, these guys will do...how about...

Joe Ingles. A little light on the Steals...only half of Warren's, what was it? 'less than a steal' (.95), but he has 3X the assists at 4.2...AND he's shooting .435 from 3...never mind the fact he can't shoot from TWO (.440 FG%), averages just 75% of TRB, 28% of Blks, and 50% of Pts.

or if Stls are more important, we could go after...

Josh Richardson. He's averaging about 25% more than Warren in Stls, so he should be ideal. Plus, he averages 70% more Assts than Warren, too. Then add in his .358 vs .177 3PT%. Surely , he's much better than Warren, and closer to and All-Star than Warren. Never mind his 55% of TRB, or 65% of PPG.

Bottom line, you are trying make your point based upon 3 skillsets that are secondary in importance.

Let me ask you this. When fans, media, whoever, talk about a Forward and what he 'slashed', what numbers are placed in that 'stat' that is quoted? Stls?? Asts?? 3PT%?? No. When someone says Warren 'slashed' 21/5.5 the month of December, they are saying he scored 21 Pts and 5.5 TRB per game. Those are the 2 stats that REALLY matter...everything else is complimentary.

If Warren can't shoot 3PT shots, then we will have to rely on our other positions to provide this aspect of our offense, and with Booker, Bender or Chriss, and whatever PG/Combo Guard we employ next season, we can surely cover using that 60% of our offensive positions for our 3s.

[TOO]

An allstar does more than score. That all warren does, at a decent rate at that, not anywhere near special. He's a guy, a decent player, but if you wanna think he's more than that, enjoy floating around on your cloud of silliness because you are wrong. If he played defense, rebounded better, or got others involved at a high rate, then sure, I'd buy some allstar talk, but he doesn't.

[Frank Lee]

Yet he is still our second most talented player and there is not a team he wouldn’t be welcomed on. The notion TJ can’t improve in his areas of weakness is equally silly.

His skills are much harder to teach than his deficiencies to correct

[Qwigglez]

An allstar does more than score. That all warren does, at a decent rate at that, not anywhere near special. He's a guy, a decent player, but if you wanna think he's more than that, enjoy floating around on your cloud of silliness because you are wrong. If he played defense, rebounded better, or got others involved at a high rate, then sure, I'd buy some allstar talk, but he doesn't.

Kawhi averaged 5.8 boards last year and Warren is averaging 5.6 this year. Kawhi also averaged just under 4 FTA's per game in his 4th season and Warren is at 4.3 FTA's per game. I wouldn't say he is just a decent player, he's been improving every year. Is he an all-star? Nope, and I'm not sure if he ever will be just based off his style, but he's a special kind of player IMO.

[bwgood77]

An allstar does more than score. That all warren does, at a decent rate at that, not anywhere near special. He's a guy, a decent player, but if you wanna think he's more than that, enjoy floating around on your cloud of silliness because you are wrong. If he played defense, rebounded better, or got others involved at a high rate, then sure, I'd buy some allstar talk, but he doesn't.

Kawhi averaged 5.8 boards last year and Warren is averaging 5.6 this year. Kawhi also averaged just under 4 FTA's per game in his 4th season and Warren is at 4.3 FTA's per game. I wouldn't say he is just a decent player, he's been improving every year. Is he an all-star? Nope, and I'm not sure if he ever will be just based off his style, but he's a special kind of player IMO.

The two keys are defense or 3 pt shooting and preferably both. His last game with 4 steals and 5 assists was exciting and if he can become a playmaker/passer that would be huge too. He's been great with steals at times, but at other times hasn't. He rarely turns it over too, which is good.

[thamadkant]

Love Warren's scoring... but he really exudes a one dimensional type player at this time. He tries defensively, but he isnt the impact player all around like most starting SFs in the league.

I for instance would choose Otto Porter over him ANY day, even though Warren runs circles around Porter in regards to scoring arsenal. Why? Because Porter brings in many things outside of scoring...

[Mulhollanddrive]

Interesting hearing these thoughts on Warren.

[Revived]

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I sometimes forget Dudley is even on the team. When was even the last time he played more than like 5–10 mins?

[RaisingArizona]

Read on Twitter

I sometimes forget Dudley is even on the team. When was even the last time he played more than like 5–10 mins?

He's getting paid Gruden money to sit on the bench

[NavLDO]

are the rumors true about McD turning down Kyrie for Bled and our pick ? If so, wtf is McD waiting for? Thats a gift wrapped all-star. Instead we have ???? I dont know, but it sure looks like a no brainer to me now. You dont get that many chances to get top players. And thinking you will be drafting them seems to have a 2-3 yr window of 'lets see' and less than a 50/50 chance of success.

Looking at what we got for Bled, likely a net zero, Jackson was a small price to pay.

I'm just curious, Frank, how come when you bring this up, you don't get responses with .gifs ridiculing you, along with the associated post including sentiments such as you being crazy for bringing it up because Kyrie was never the type of PG we wanted, and it would've cost us Jackson or our '18 pick in a loaded draft...oh wait, we're currently 8th, and nowhere near top 3...

Anyway, rhetorical question Frank...but I agree wholeheartedly; I don't care WHAT style of play he has, etc., etc. -- we were trading non-All-Star pieces for an All-Star--something that was 'promised' to us back in 2013 when McD came aboard. Now he's being picky and choosy? And now we get to choose between Ulis and Canaan each night at PG??

Great job, McD! Way to trade for that disgruntled All-Star, as promised. One that might have made the Suns a bit more of an attractive destination for other FAs--all it takes is ONE year, and we had Kyrie locked up for 2, so that 'excuse' of 'he'd never re-sign with us' is a load of hooey as well.

I'm not saying this would have happened, but there's a fair chance that with Kyrie, we're an 8 seed this year, and we attract another all-star-ish player this summer--take your pick: Boogie, Lopez, Noel, Jordan...

Let's say the best we can get is Noel, another 'Len-ish' player who hasn't really had an opportunity to be THE guy. Glancing at his recent historical stats, he appears to be a 13/8 type player with near 2 Blks per game when he gets 28+ minutes. We might get lucky an snag Boogie, since not many teams can make that long-term monetary commitment, and with Kyrie and a Playoff entrance, Boogie may see a future here with young players on an upward trajectory...anyway...this season, we would be

Kyrie / Booker / Warren / Chriss / Chandler

...definitely well enough for playoffs, and next year, we'd have

Kyrie / Booker / Warren / Chriss / Boogie

So, All-Star / All-Star / Near-All-Star (in his own special way) / 22 YO break-out phenom / All-Star

...and likely a top 3 seed.

So, season is over; we didn't win...let's say we were ousted in the 2nd Round. Kyrie is up for UFA, and we have the money to Max him out. Now, remember, he didn't commit. What do you think Kyrie is going to do? Go somewhere else??? Possibly. If he does, how hard do you think it will be for us to find a replacement for him? Considering we were just a 3-Seed, and still have 2 x All-Stars...

So all this 'junk' about Kyrie not wanting to be here after his 2 years are up...I don't care...2 years is enough to get a lot accomplished. Let him go then...good riddance, right?

...but instead, now...now we sit at 15-26, still needing a stud/all-star PG to put us over the edge into the playoffs...with none in sight...

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[NavLDO]

Very few wanted to trade Jackson for Kyrie at the time. Sure, many wanted to trade for Kyrie, but most who did were coming up with alternative packages that they said "Cleveland should take" with some of our other picks, or Chriss or Bender or Warren, etc.

There may have been a couple people wanting to trade Jackson at that time but most were against it. We had a poll about it at the time and it was heavily lopsided.

But the stuff out there was that Kyrie had the list of teams he wanted to play for and that he wanted to play for a solid coach and system and rumors that his team wanted no part of Phx. We had already dealt with disgruntled point guards, had one, and had another disgruntled one in Kyrie on the block who had a list of teams we were not on. Many signs pointed to him not wanting to be here, and we were not about to trade Jackson...and the fans didn't want to trade him for Kyrie's likely limited stay. It is what it is.

I was for trading Kyrie but eventually moved away from including the #4 pick when it didn't seem like Kyrie/his camp was saying much to put the Suns near the top of his list. The risk of Kyrie leaving in two years priced the #4 pick out of the package. I still would have given up a good package for him but I didn't think it was worth the #4 pick. JJ kinda sucks right now and Kyrie may have turned this ship around and resign with us but hindsight is 20/20 and I don't think it's worth reviewing the decision right now. Maybe it's worth it from a McD job security point of view but not from a we are where are are perspective.

See above...

...it's all about vision. One year? Yeah, that's not a lot of time. But 2 years?? And if he was the 'architect' of the rebuild--the center piece of our 'Phoenix rise from the ashes', he would've been a mega-star, and received exactly what he wanted...to be...
"The Man"

(I guess I'm full of video-emphasis today)

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[Mulhollanddrive]

Would Kemba Walker or Hassan Whiteside get us to playoffs next season?

[NavLDO]

Lonzo with more votes than Devin. What a joke.

Big Baller Brand, baby, in LA, beats just a normal guy in Phoenix, every time, you can 'Book' it.

See, that's that Booker needs...a catch phrase or something, like "When Devon shoots a 3, you can Book it"

Or, for you older types that remember the show, somehow come up with a way to play off the TJ Hooker with our hoop defending duo TJ Booker,or something...IDK...

Watch on YouTube

[Mulhollanddrive]

I wonder what Markelle Fultz would cost at this point.

[Saberestar]

Would Kemba Walker or Hassan Whiteside get us to playoffs next season?

I think so.

[hollywood6964]

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I sometimes forget Dudley is even on the team. When was even the last time he played more than like 5–10 mins?

He's getting paid Gruden money to sit on the bench

And eat.