Knicks-Heat PG Thread

[Greenie]

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Exactly.. step back for a second. As Knick fans we should be thrilled. One player doesn't win you a championship.

Of course not.
Now, how and where are we getting the second and third?

[Triple C]

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[Reign23]

I am against these vet-8th-spot-chasing more than anybody else but I don't understand the jack hate.
he is a 34 year old vet who has a non-guaranteed contract and had a torn achilles. in my opinion he is overarchieving BIG time this season. not his fault that our bum of a coach start him and plays him big minutes..

[FKF]

What a disappointing loss.

It is mind boggling that someone like Jeff Hornacek, who played under the greatness of Jerry Sloan, who played alongside the greatness of John Stockton and Karl Malone, can’t run P&R, P&P properly as a head coach.

As soon as he took Frank Ntilikina off the floor, the last minutes of the fourth, and the whole OT, our execution collapsed.

This was as frustrating as a loss as it can be. Hornacek had no business coaching an overtime anyway. He called a **** play late leading to a bad shot by Lee, and if not for KP’s awareness inside, and Mac draining that three, it would have been a loss in regulation. Which would have been a favour to fans to be honest, as it would have prevent us to watch that joke of extra period.

Spoelstra doesn’t have a great roster to use, but he vastly out coached Hornacek on this one. How many times did the Knicks got stuck with their offense into the Heat’s defense, and never adjusted ? The paint was closed, how about we try from deep ? We finish with more Fgs, more FT, and found a way to lose. We play like there’s no 3 pt line. I wanted to smash my ipad to the wall when Jack missed KP WIDE OPEN top of the arc.

This is becoming of an embarrassment, KP needs to play with Frank & Willy, not with Jack and Beasley!! Why the hell are we playing those dudes with no future on that squad ? One of them not even guaranteed ? Spoelstra and Riley must have laughed hard at us last night, post game.

Kp is elite. He’s not off, he can get you the points on the board and the wins if you get him the ball right. Same we did with Ewing for 15 years. Jarret Jack and Courtney Lee are just not getting him the ball!! Frank is!! Chris Herring tweeted it best!

Swap coaches and management, and the Knicks win this one by 30. Instead, we let Wayne f’ing Ellington beat us.

They’re just getting what they deserve (management & owner).

But hey, who the F am I to complain and talk basket-ball ?
Dolan would tell me i’m Not welcome if I had him in front of my face

[Greenie]

KP is a dominant defensive force and an elite finisher. He'll have some moves in his prime but I don't think he's a guy where you give him the ball and something happens. Physique and skillset more than anything. Hardaway is that a bit and they'll need another guy. Frank might have it too. I wouldn't count him out. He has the frame to do just about anything but with him I do think mindset is an issue. With these pieces it will have to be a committee.

I think with KP, Frank & Hardaway there is a potential of 3 GREAT two way players & we would be missing that one elite guy to put us over the top. Maybe we could get that player in the draft or through free agency.

Has to be the draft.
I truly don't see an elite FA signing here. That's why the "Tank" is important. Something has to give.

The only other option would be to pull another Melo draining type trade. That got us nowhere. I'm not here for it.

[Greenie]

Prime Pau Gasol is a heck of a player.. ask Kobe "the alpha" Bryant.

Who's going to play the role of Kobe?

[god shammgod]

I'm only up to page 7 of reading, but surprised it hasn't come up.

KP decided he needed to train all summer and also play for the Latvian team in the Eurocup, action which had all of us oohin and ahhing over his clips and how it helped him be "the man"

This activity took place for a player many many people on here and in the media speculated had stamina\anemia\something issues that made him tail off in the 2nd half of seasons

So, now he's tailing off HARD.

Gee, I wonder what the cause might be.

Here's the thread for anyone that wants to review

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1555750#start_here

thread is good. on page 2 i predicted that phil will attempt to trade kp on april 24th. where's my realgm trophy ?

[god shammgod]

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where's the stat that shows how little the knicks run the pnr

[seren]

I miss Dantoni. Miami made 7 more threes than us. You can't win with this constant pounding the ball inside. Even when we need buckets Doug sits. The coach has no idea about the space. Our guards are not great but our coach makes them much worse. Heck even KP stopped taking threes. Phil must be proud. LOL

[Greenie]

Yup. Free agency is a tough go unless kanter opts out. Incremental trades could get us somewhere too.

The upside over the D'Antoni years is we actually have all our picks but it's a narrow path. Very little room for error. We need to hit home runs and maybe get some lottery magic. The upcoming draft is serious business.

Eloquently stated.

Do you think it’s possible we trade Lee & Quinn for a first? Enes would be a long shot but maybe something for him as well.

Perfect scenario is by draft time we have 2-3 picks and use them to trade up.

We have to be looking at those options. I'm not sure how good a pick we can get with those assets though. I looked at some of the teams awhile back and thought somewhere in the 20 range maybe? The other option some are bringing up is those two or Kanter could be moved for a guy like George Hill. That's playing with fire but on paper a lineup of him, Frank, and Tim at the 1-3 would be tough to stop... for a year. Probably too limited a window.

There's the Euro option with late picks again too. That guy Bonga could be another high upside grab.

I've soured on Hill.

[Greenie]

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Jeff's gotta go.

On the road to 18-64!!!!

I'd like to see him coach a young team, and not have this mandate to make the playoffs. I wish the Knicks would do as they said they would do before the season, and go young. This playoffs or bust crap is killing the team as it always has.

I don't think there is a mandate. We literally walked half-assed into this season.

Too many vets.

[Reign23]

Aren’t you a PBP? Sit down somewhere.

What does that have to do with Melo trolling?

You sit down. Melo isn't on the team anymore. Go discuss him somewhere else.

It has to do with everything, you were banned already, technically you’re not supposed to even be back on the board.

And who is trolling about Melo?

Capn (a mod) brought him up, and I brought him up along with Amare in context of the discussion of KP & not making a mistake.

So quit crying and understand the conversation that’s going on.

well said, sir.

[Greenie]

but im told it's jack's fault..smh

Jack is still boo boo though.

I can't believe how obvious it is and everyone is ignoring it or doesn't see it.

KP is tired. Not joking here and it's certainly NOT an excuse for KP because he SHOULDN'T be tired at this point.

But he is. He looks EXACTLY like mid season rookie KP and mid season last years KP.

And I used to wonder "why the f*ck are the Knicks guards looking him off?".

Two reasons. Well, one is obvious the and the other is conjecture. One is that they aren't, but he's being lazy, not moving, not getting good position, so they don't bother getting him the ball because, well, it's not a good play
The other, and I swear it's happening, is he gets position, no worse than any other time, and CLee will be like "ummm, yeah, f*ck you. Not giving you the ball" and swings it the other way.
I'm 90% sure this is Lee's way of saying "f*ck you, you aren't working hard enough out here"

Then Lee needs to go.
KP is the lead guy. Get him the fuqing ball.

[Reign23]

[Fat Kat]

I'm only up to page 7 of reading, but surprised it hasn't come up.

KP decided he needed to train all summer and also play for the Latvian team in the Eurocup, action which had all of us oohin and ahhing over his clips and how it helped him be "the man"

This activity took place for a player many many people on here and in the media speculated had stamina\anemia\something issues that made him tail off in the 2nd half of seasons

So, now he's tailing off HARD.

Gee, I wonder what the cause might be.

Here's the thread for anyone that wants to review

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1555750#start_here

thread is good. on page 2 i predicted that phil will attempt to trade kp on april 24th. where's my realgm trophy ?

So far it looks like KP's Latvian excursion was ill-conceived. Perhaps he should think about resting all-star weekend

[Greenie]

These Ls are on KP.

Teams have adjusted. He hasn't. Blame PG or whatever but #1 options don't have this many let down games in a row like he has.

Being an Alpha is much easier said than done. He's not a LeBron type dude, but since he's the leader he gets the blame(according to this board).

No one can carry these bums. Not even Melo. The team has been lacking talent for years. I watched a video last night Knicks come out to NWO theme and the lineup was

Larkin
Shumpert
Melo
Acy
Dalembert

Are you kidding meeeeeee

No. The Knicks are serious. That's what a few of us have been screaming for years.

Now this same **** is being laid at the feet of KP.

Jack
Lee
Thomas
KP
Kanter


FOH

[Red Vines]

Our offense was designed around KP, now that he's tired we'll have to re-strategize. I cut Jeff some slack for having no PG and not having Tim or KP carrying their weight.

[Greenie]

Our offense was designed around KP, now that he's tired we'll have to re-strategize. I cut Jeff some slack for having no PG and not having Tim or KP carrying their weight.

It's been over a month of KP coming back down to earth. If Jeff didn't adjust already then he's never going to.

This is why Phil started shoving the triangle down Jeff's laughing ass face last year.

Phil was right about needing a system. He just went about his mess the wrong way.

[Thugger HBC]

So he's not an alpha.. he's not a franchise player.. he's not a great 1 on 1 player.. so what do we do about it? As fans we're bummed and tear him down and what does the team do trade him?

My comment doesn't suggest that, and I'd hope no one thinks I meant that.

What I meant was change the course meaning if KP isn't the lead dog, ultimately the team needs to find one, via draft, trade or free agency or internally. But I haven't ruled him out in that aspect either, but it's obvious he isn't truly ready.

I do think he's tired...the young man has said it, and I think he was being honest when he said it. We see it.

He doesn't have an NBA body, his minutes are increasing, his load is without a doubt heavier. Every trip down KP is getting leaned on by defenders, he has to fight just to get position every single trip own. That alone is tiresome.

The first month of KP is what he's capable of. That's established to me. the question is how to maintain that for a longer period.

Get the kid some help.

Firstly, the coach is doo-doo. Better plays to get KP in motion and sets where he can get open shots would help alot, and not just pnr and pnp...any team can run those. Jeff doesnt have this in him. jeff has zero offensive creativity from his playbook and no defensive gameplan either. That one year in Phx was delusion.

Secondly, I didnt think the team as a whole would miss Hardaway so much, but they all do, especially KP. Timmy has the alpha in him, (he isn't that player imo though) and certainly can make up some of KP's offensive flaws and help take some pressure off. It's the one thing he has from his dad. Timmy also is really good in transition and picking up the pace. KP seems to excel in that area as well, as well as the rest of the team. Right now the team just plays too damn slow and seems to never get out in the open court, which brings to....

PG play. It's disgustingly bad. I know you especially see this, fam. It's your specialty.

Jack is awful, but not in respect as to where he is in his career. He's well above expectations. Quite honestly I expected nothing from him, so he's definitely met that. But he doesnt truly run the team. No flow, no change of pace, nobody in their sweet spots, just plain lack of direction. That's on Jack some, the coach mostly and Perry for putting this product on the floor.

Frank isn't ready either, but when the situation is this bad it makes no sense to not let the young fella get his run.

Overall perry got some work to do, and some decisions to make.

[Thugger HBC]

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Jeff's gotta go.

On the road to 18-64!!!!

I'd like to see him coach a young team, and not have this mandate to make the playoffs. I wish the Knicks would do as they said they would do before the season, and go young. This playoffs or bust crap is killing the team as it always has.

I don't think there is a mandate. We literally walked half-assed into this season.

Too many vets.

Sessions is an easy cut imo. I have no real issues with Noah or Lee being here. If they turn the keys over to Frank, then I'd be more than content to see them bring up Burke as his backup. jack should be seldomly played in games.