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Knicks-Heat PG Thread

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Re: Knicks-Heat PG Thread 

Post#321 » by j4remi » Sat Jan 6, 2018 4:15 pm

Well, it was Friday Night and the Knicks got Robert Randolph'ed. The curse of the Friday Night Knicks is well established, so a trash talking Beasley spraining his ankle was more suprising in that it took all game to happen. Leaving superstition behind, we've hit a point where I spend most of the first quarter waiting for the bench to come in. I watch KP surrounded by four guys that will only be here in a couple of years if we can't move them and wonder what the purpose is. This team is 2-8 over it's last 10 and outside of a 4 game winning streak against the dregs of the league, they've been struggling since early November. KP is tired, THJ is out and the team looks less like a playoff squad every day. The bench though...the bench has some serviceable role players, our lottery pick PG who doubles as our best on ball defender and a lot less isolation basketball. To illustrate this, everyone on the bench had a positive +/- last night while every starter was a negative. Time to vent...P.S. I'm going long on the guys we care about

KP: Close your eyes, repeat after me...Timmy has been replaced by Lance Thomas and Porzingis is only 22 years old. With alarmist headlines such as "scouts fear KP is only Pau Gasol" it feels like the tide is turning hard on him...as if having a floor of Pau "multiple championship winning HOF player" Gasol at 22 years old is a negative. But we should be fair; KP's rebounding lately has been inexcusable. I counted three second half offensive boards he gave up from superior positioning, that means he got outworked. His shot is off and his attempts are down. There are a lot of variables at play, but exhaustion seems like the Occam's Razor because this drop off has been routine for three seasons now. That's not a valid excuse for a franchise piece to fall off so hard in December/January. The silver lining? KP's interior presence on defense shines nightly and while he still loses men when they stretch the floor at times, I think there's a palpable improvement to his defense. No better example of that came than when Goran Dragic tried to take him with dribble drives into ball fakes, KP kept his feet and forced a TO. The only way to beat KP on defense right now is to get space to shoot or to be both strong enough and tall enough to beat him in the post which is rare in today's NBA.

37 minutes, 15 pts, 7 boards, 3 blocks, 2 TO's...those three boards I mentioned would have given him a double double and more reason for optimism. The 5/14 shooting is pretty scary because this has been happening a lot lately. He did drive to the basket early which I appreciated a LOT. Late in the game, pick and rolls where he dove toward the hoop were the most effective offense we've had from him in weeks. It wasn't done frequently but it got him pull-ups inside of fifteen feet or lay-up attempts. Enough pick and slips...make him a roll man more often.

Lee: 40 minutes, 24 pts, 3 boards, 1 ast and 4 TO's. He was 9/16 from the field and sprinkled in better defense than most. But the ball is in his hands way too much for 1 assist, especially as he gets pick and roll opportunities. If the guy can't make an entry pass or quick decision when the switch happens, than his success is at the detriment of ball movement.

Kanter: It'd be interesting for Jeff to at least TRY to find a way to get Kanter out there when we're aching for buckets. Yes, his defense is subpar but he's a real post-up threat and when the team is missing this is the guy that will get extra opportunities. 14 pts, 8 boards, 2 steals and 2 blocks over 25 minutes on the floor...he's productive while he's out there but can't seem to stay out there.

Lance: 1 pt, 2 boards, 1 block and 1 steal with 2 TO's, no field goals and 28 minutes of "stop wasting my time." His shining moment was a complimentary tweet they read at halftime...yuck.

Jack: 8 pts, 5 asts and a steal in 34 minutes. He was 4/12, had 3 TO's and his defense is on permanent FML. On pick and rolls, he's more likely to take a long midrange jumper than dive into the paint or create for the big lately. If he's guarding the ball handler, I'm hoping for a switch with a wing because we're better off on pick and roll defense with anyone but Jack getting screened. He used his entire Turbo bar in the third quarter and was pretty good there, kept us in it, but for 3 other quarters and OT it was more bad than good.

Doug: He hit 2/4 from three including the shot to force OT, that's promising after his shooting struggles lately. 9 pts and 2 boards in 24 minutes; as a cheap role player, I'd keep him around.

Beas: He continues to put up outlandish production for the time he's out there. 23 minutes of play, 20 pts, 10 boards, 2 assists, 2 steals and 2 TO's on 8/11 shooting. If the sprain ankle doesn't affect him, he has a shot to be sixth man of the year with the way he has played since KP's last injury break. That said, he hurt himself running backwards to look at the opposing bench after a make. He always has a few weird rotations on defense. Also, for some reason he and Doug have no real chemistry yet...One's a slasher and the other is a cutter that can shoot, that's a match made in heaven for skillsets but they don't mesh well on either end of the floor somehow.

Frank: Are the Knicks giving him more pick and rolls? He hit KOQ on the roll quite a few times where O'Quinn would pull up instead of diving hard...so less assists for Frank than he could have had with say a Kanter or a KP as that option. But he also struggled scoring and kept going to KOQ in spite of the lack of success. 2 pts, 4 assists, a beauty of a block and 1 TO in 25 minutes. His defense stands out enough to make up for the lesser productivity on the box score imo but it's debatable I'll admit. The fact that he did make attempts in the paint, did find KOQ rolling and was a positive sum player all shows promise. KP is 22 and I'm preaching patience, this kid is 19 so you know damned well what I have to say. Let him grow, let him learn and be patient.

Baker: 12 minutes for 1 board and 2 steals. He played good defense and didn't do much else. But good defense at the 1 and 2 was a big reason for the second unit having success. Either way, he's not living up to 4.5 million a season which isn't even a lot of money.

KOQ: Like Frank, the big thing for KOQ is that he looks a lot better on defense than the starter in front of him. Kanter is slow on rotations just off footspeed and KOQ has a bit more mobility. Offensively, dude struggles at times inside but has flashed midrange jumpers lately that are opening up his game a bit...and the big man can really pass. 10 pts, 3 boards, 1 assist on 4/9 from the field in a 17 minute run. He was a positive on the night but damn I wish he'd catch the ball on pick and roll dives without slowing up his momentum before he rises.

Hornacek: 40 seconds are left in regulation and Beasley steps to the free throw line for a chance to tie and then take the lead. Lance Thomas approaches the scorer's table and I think "great, a smart defensive substitution...get one stop and we're in the driver's seat." Then Lance checked in for Frank instead of Jarrett Jack. The incoherence of Horny's decision-making illustrated perfectly. It's not just that though, amid a 2-8 skid with KP struggling mightily; Jeff refuses to switch things up to try and help. KP wasn't the shooter to close out regulation, but he did grab an offensive board and make the key pass to force OT. So in OT when that situation rose again, Courteny Lee got the shot. KP clutch, Lee ineffective in these situations all season; Jeff throwing curveballs again. This more and more feels like a team that was being propelled by the play of KP and THJ in spite rather than because of coaching. Another wrinkle here; the Knicks made 5 out of 13 three point attempts on the night. Wayne Ellington made 6/16 three point attempts. With KP facing constant doubles and defenses focused so much inside, the fact that the Knicks are barely attempting three's is doubly painful.

On the Rotations: With the Knicks looking more and more ISO heavy, it feels like a move toward a grinding defensive identity would be more effective. You're slowing the game down with isolations, stops will drive some fast break buckets. To truly establish that though, they'll need someone up top that can actually guard the ball handler. The offense isn't pretty whether Jack is handling the rock or not. The defense though...looks LOT better when Frank is at the top of key. 2-8 over their last 10 games, there aren't excuses to avoid change when the team is losing like that. Jeff tried starting Doug and Beasley over Lance...none of the three made a big difference. The next move is Frank over Jack.
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Re: Knicks-Heat PG Thread 

Post#322 » by HEZI » Sat Jan 6, 2018 4:20 pm

thebuzzardman wrote:
HEZI wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:
The degree to which you say he's a terrible defender in game threads doesn't sound like something that 2 years or ever will fix.

Bad at perimeter defense, bad man to man defender of bigs, just blocks shots because he leaves his man to pad shot block stats. Sounds terrible to me. Maybe I'm creating an amalgam of your and a couple of other posters. If I am though, that KP does indeed suck.


Listen man, when the dude himself says he doesn't want to play center because he doesn't feel comfortable battling with the bigger stronger guys and taking punishment, then we see him struggle in situations when he does get matched up with guys in those situations, it's not hard to see his weakness. Then when we see his inability to guard guys on the perimeter, it's not hard to see his weakness. If you can't accept that he still has his weaknesses then that's on you.


Ah, much better. Just say he sucks.

I maintain his perimeter defense is average. The TEAM struggles to guard the 3. I'm not saying he never individually gets beat out there but so do lots of players, including good defenders. The Knick scheme has them overshading to the paint. If KP is a "bad perimeter" defender, then the Knicks don't have one decent one, except maybe Frank, because to a man they all give up a sh*t ton of 3's.

KP needs some work but I think you're getting a little carried away in your enthusiasm to say he sucks in general.


:crazy:

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Re: Knicks-Heat PG Thread 

Post#323 » by drekwins » Sat Jan 6, 2018 4:26 pm

ibraheim718 wrote:Prime Pau Gasol is a heck of a player.. ask Kobe "the alpha" Bryant.


I agree with you compeltely. I just think that people are a little dissapointed with 2 things:

1) we were hoping that we had the toughest piece of the puzzle to find (franchise player/creator - CP3, TMac, Kobe, KG, etc.)
2) we don't understand why we're not in an all-out tank since it's becoming more and more clear that he is not that piece.

It's not really as much to do with KP as it is with the overall frustration of our situation. With that said, the stuff from this Summer is still in my and everyone elses mind. His brothers comments about needing the Knicks to do better is still in my mind. At this point, KP needs to figure himself out before things like that are taken to the media.
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Re: Knicks-Heat PG Thread 

Post#324 » by thebuzzardman » Sat Jan 6, 2018 4:27 pm

HEZI wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:
HEZI wrote:
Listen man, when the dude himself says he doesn't want to play center because he doesn't feel comfortable battling with the bigger stronger guys and taking punishment, then we see him struggle in situations when he does get matched up with guys in those situations, it's not hard to see his weakness. Then when we see his inability to guard guys on the perimeter, it's not hard to see his weakness. If you can't accept that he still has his weaknesses then that's on you.


Ah, much better. Just say he sucks.

I maintain his perimeter defense is average. The TEAM struggles to guard the 3. I'm not saying he never individually gets beat out there but so do lots of players, including good defenders. The Knick scheme has them overshading to the paint. If KP is a "bad perimeter" defender, then the Knicks don't have one decent one, except maybe Frank, because to a man they all give up a sh*t ton of 3's.

KP needs some work but I think you're getting a little carried away in your enthusiasm to say he sucks in general.


:crazy:

You're always at the edge of some extreme. Step away and walk towards middle ground


What, by saying KP is an average defender on the perimeter and "ok" inside, if you combine the shot blocking/shot altering aspects of his inside play off the fact he'll get bodied by big C's?

Sounds pretty middle of the road to me.
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Re: Knicks-Heat PG Thread 

Post#325 » by F N 11 » Sat Jan 6, 2018 4:29 pm

These scrubs ain't been looking for Kp. Franks does and gets pulled. These losses are good bc it could mean no Jeff.

The problem is Jack and idc for lane oversttwd defense. When we were winning we got Kp involved now these dudes not looking for him. Esp In the clutch. It's sickening watching Jack and Lee in the clutch.

The bench with all positive plus minus but Jeff brings the starters back lmao.

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Re: Knicks-Heat PG Thread 

Post#326 » by Deeeez Knicks » Sat Jan 6, 2018 4:29 pm

thebuzzardman wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:
Deeeez Knicks wrote:The sooner we fall out of playoff contention, maybe the better. There were some nice moments but chasing the playoffs was probably fools gold. Trade the vets, play the kids, try to pick up some future picks even if we have to take on some contracts (pending the contract)

Get on with a youth movement


And maybe some prospects. I’d like us to try more lottery ticket guys like we did with MCD. You never who fits in with your youth movement. Some guys on teams trying to make the playoff push that might be available:

Huestis
Frank Jackson
Diallo
Ellenson
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Hood
Jones


Just to splash a little water on the "trade the vets for assets movement".

What assets, and what are they bringing back?

The Knicks aren't good. Not Good teams are generally a collection of not good players. That's the Knicks.

The players they have that have "value" aren't that valuable, fantasies we as fans tell ourselves otherwise.

About the only tradeable pieces on the entire team other than the guys we are obviously keeping are:
CLee, big ol KOQ, Beasley (maybe), McD (maybe), Kanter (unlikely)

CLee - at best fetches a low first round pick from some random playoff team that needs a veteran guard. Since most organizations aren't the Knicks, they value guard play and have a bunch. So, basically we have to hope a contender has injury depth concerns at guard. Can't think of anyone like that but basically Lee's max value is pick like 25-30 where fate hands a team an injury. Not likely.

KOQ - Knicks are at least good at stockpiling centers and I guess a team that could use some bench scoring a a couple of offensive fouls a game might surrender a low 1st/high 2nd here.

Beasley - playoff team that needs scoring punch would surrender a 2nd rounder

McD - see above just a lot less so

Kanter - really don't see anyone surrendering anything for a C with limitations about to opt in and get paid 18 million a year

Knicks better hit some home runs in the draft. Oh, and keep losing this year. Every ping pong ball helps.


Lee is def the main guy. He should be able to fetch at least a late first. Teams are always looking for 3D guys. No reason we shouldn't be able to move him.

I would alsp see if any teams are looking to move contracts for assets. Id be willing to take on a bad deal (that expires same time as Noah) if we can pick up some assets. Really depends on the contract and what we are getting back.

Yea, not sure what we can for everyone else. Beas has been really impressive and could help a lot of teams. Id take a 2nd or something along that lines. No real worries if we can't move anyone else though.

I also realize more teams are usually more interested closer to the trade deadline so maybe itll take a month or 2 but there has to be moves we can make to improve our situation even if just by a little.

Overall, would be nice to free up some time for Dot or pick up some g-league guys to give a shot. Move the tank into the next gear.
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Re: Knicks-Heat PG Thread 

Post#327 » by thebuzzardman » Sat Jan 6, 2018 4:29 pm

Knicks should start games with:

Frank
Lee
McD or Beasley (leaning McD because of cutting and theoretical outside shooting)
KOQ
KP

Team is basically KP and 14 bench players, so why care who starts?
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Re: Knicks-Heat PG Thread 

Post#328 » by F N 11 » Sat Jan 6, 2018 4:33 pm

KP is not an iso scorer. Jesus do the coaching staff watch tape? Lord help us with a real coach for once.
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Re: Knicks-Heat PG Thread 

Post#329 » by F N 11 » Sat Jan 6, 2018 4:34 pm

thebuzzardman wrote:Knicks should start games with:

Frank
Lee
McD or Beasley (leaning McD because of cutting and theoretical outside shooting)
KOQ
KP

Team is basically KP and 14 bench players, so why care who starts?

I've been saying Kanter on the bench for the longest. Jeff can't make adjustments. He's acting like the bench is so good.
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Re: Knicks-Heat PG Thread 

Post#330 » by drekwins » Sat Jan 6, 2018 4:34 pm

thebuzzardman wrote:Knicks should start games with:

Frank
Lee
McD or Beasley (leaning McD because of cutting and theoretical outside shooting)
KOQ
KP

Team is basically KP and 14 bench players, so why care who starts?


I think it has to be either:

Frank
Lee
McD/Beasley
KP
Kanter

It all depends if KP is being assertive. If he is, I want McD on the floor. If not, Beasley should be on the floor. Kanter + Beasley add a lot of solid offense when he's struggling.
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Re: Knicks-Heat PG Thread 

Post#331 » by F N 11 » Sat Jan 6, 2018 4:39 pm

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Re: Knicks-Heat PG Thread 

Post#332 » by thebuzzardman » Sat Jan 6, 2018 4:39 pm

drekwins wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:Knicks should start games with:

Frank
Lee
McD or Beasley (leaning McD because of cutting and theoretical outside shooting)
KOQ
KP

Team is basically KP and 14 bench players, so why care who starts?


I think it has to be either:

Frank
Lee
McD/Beasley
KP
Kanter

It all depends if KP is being assertive. If he is, I want McD on the floor. If not, Beasley should be on the floor. Kanter + Beasley add a lot of solid offense when he's struggling.


On talent, you'd think Beasley over McD, but I'm not sure how well he and KP mesh and it's more KP's issue than anybodies.
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Re: Knicks-Heat PG Thread 

Post#333 » by j4remi » Sat Jan 6, 2018 4:40 pm

thebuzzardman wrote:Knicks should start games with:

Frank
Lee
McD or Beasley (leaning McD because of cutting and theoretical outside shooting)
KOQ
KP

Team is basically KP and 14 bench players, so why care who starts?


I'd be really curious to see some KOQ/KP high/low action with KP being a cutter. Also, I feel like that'd be a legitimate tough defense. The second unit could run PnR or Kanter post-ups.
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Re: Knicks-Heat PG Thread 

Post#334 » by Jalen Bluntson » Sat Jan 6, 2018 4:42 pm

Deeeez Knicks wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:
And maybe some prospects. I’d like us to try more lottery ticket guys like we did with MCD. You never who fits in with your youth movement. Some guys on teams trying to make the playoff push that might be available:

Huestis
Frank Jackson
Diallo
Ellenson
Vonleh
JHG
Beasley
Exum
Hood
Jones


Just to splash a little water on the "trade the vets for assets movement".

What assets, and what are they bringing back?

The Knicks aren't good. Not Good teams are generally a collection of not good players. That's the Knicks.

The players they have that have "value" aren't that valuable, fantasies we as fans tell ourselves otherwise.

About the only tradeable pieces on the entire team other than the guys we are obviously keeping are:
CLee, big ol KOQ, Beasley (maybe), McD (maybe), Kanter (unlikely)

CLee - at best fetches a low first round pick from some random playoff team that needs a veteran guard. Since most organizations aren't the Knicks, they value guard play and have a bunch. So, basically we have to hope a contender has injury depth concerns at guard. Can't think of anyone like that but basically Lee's max value is pick like 25-30 where fate hands a team an injury. Not likely.

KOQ - Knicks are at least good at stockpiling centers and I guess a team that could use some bench scoring a a couple of offensive fouls a game might surrender a low 1st/high 2nd here.

Beasley - playoff team that needs scoring punch would surrender a 2nd rounder

McD - see above just a lot less so

Kanter - really don't see anyone surrendering anything for a C with limitations about to opt in and get paid 18 million a year

Knicks better hit some home runs in the draft. Oh, and keep losing this year. Every ping pong ball helps.


Lee is def the main guy. He should be able to fetch at least a late first. Teams are always looking for 3D guys. No reason we shouldn't be able to move him.

I would alsp see if any teams are looking to move contracts for assets. Id be willing to take on a bad deal (that expires same time as Noah) if we can pick up some assets. Really depends on the contract and what we are getting back.

Yea, not sure what we can for everyone else. Beas has been really impressive and could help a lot of teams. Id take a 2nd or something along that lines. No real worries if we can't move anyone else though.

I also realize more teams are usually more interested closer to the trade deadline so maybe itll take a month or 2 but there has to be moves we can make to improve our situation even if just by a little.

Overall, would be nice to free up some time for Dot or pick up some g-league guys to give a shot. Move the tank into the next gear.


Deadline is a month away. Trade talks should be happening already.

They have to move a center. Most likely that's KOQ. The only other player with value is Lee. Beasley may get you a 2nd. Kanter is not likely traded because he has 18.5 due next year and gives 25 mpg. Doug? Not sure what you get for him.

You may be able to pair up Doug/Baker/Beasley with one of Lee/KOQ to try for more value. That's about all I see on the trade market.

Cutting Sessions for 10 day deals must happen soon. Burke is first in line.

At the very least...I think KOQ is gone in the next few weeks and, the Sessions/Burke move happens. Other than that...who knows?
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Re: Knicks-Heat PG Thread 

Post#335 » by thebuzzardman » Sat Jan 6, 2018 4:50 pm

Here's some fun thoughts that sort of middle ground the KP sucks/is good/is franchise/is not idea.

KP is good but he's not consistently good at anything offensively (over the course of a season) and it creates a number of challenges for any team and especially a mid-low talent team like the Knicks.

"On KP"
Unicorn in the making, nailing jumpers and 3's, so he spreads the floor yet is still effective inside. So now you can play Kanter or any other low skillish P&R big who rebounds with him as the offense is balanced by having a 7'3" guy playing almost like a 6'7" stretch 4. Height means shot blocking on defense is added bonus over other stretch 4's.
This version of KP also still has the energy to effectively post up and actually do something with it, so spread the floor role players like McD etc look better.

"Off KP"
Can't hit 3's for sh*t. Bad enough to let teams not guard him and they'll live with the odds. Mid range jumper is off. Forces him to be a post player, which at "best of off KP" he's not that effective at and immediately puts him in the same area as the lower skilled bigs (Kanter/KOQ). Truly off KP winds up in the post and is pretty much completely ineffective, wrecking sets with lazy positioning and bad shots, which just compounds the issue.

When KP is "on" (which so far in his career is first 30 games of a season) he's borderline "franchise" but not totally because he lacks enough one on one moves. But he's damn close. He's like 1b. But when KP tails off due to injuries and fatigue (3 for 3 in years so far) he drags down the entire team, especially this year as focal point, because he becomes a tall guy out there with a lot of touches who isn't really great at anything - on offense.

Generally his defense will hold up a shot altering presence and a decent enough man to man defender but when "Off KP" is really present, even his defense disappears for stretches of games.
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Re: Knicks-Heat PG Thread 

Post#336 » by thebuzzardman » Sat Jan 6, 2018 4:53 pm

j4remi wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:Knicks should start games with:

Frank
Lee
McD or Beasley (leaning McD because of cutting and theoretical outside shooting)
KOQ
KP

Team is basically KP and 14 bench players, so why care who starts?


I'd be really curious to see some KOQ/KP high/low action with KP being a cutter. Also, I feel like that'd be a legitimate tough defense. The second unit could run PnR or Kanter post-ups.


Thanks. I mean, KOQ is a better defender than Kanter. Kanter slight edge on offense but not enough. McD tries on defense/is active. the rest we know about. I just think it's the best combination of offense and defense the KNicks have. Why not start it?

I mean, so LFT, Kanter, Jack have to come off the bench. They are BENCH players. F*ck whatever feelings they might have falsely developed from Knicks training camp. If the team is full of bench guys, at least mix and match them in a sensible way.
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Re: Knicks-Heat PG Thread 

Post#337 » by louisorr » Sat Jan 6, 2018 4:57 pm

Not sure why Doug never touched the ball in OT.
Why not take 10 more threes a game.
And KP is a finesse player. He is not physically tired so much as mentally tired because he is mentally frustrated. Like many people have said, stop posting him up and use him coming off screens for catch and shoot. But what's on KP to improve is, he needs to set his pick before he comes off it, look for the passing opportunity then quickly shoot. He's a skinny guy and I don't blame him for not wanting to be physical, but he has to own it and make the game work for him. Finally, we all thought his ceiling was Dirk. Well, reminder, Dirk was a tall guy who could shoot. He was questioned his whole career as being soft, a poor defender, bad rebounder etc. Let's not expect KP to be all time goat. If he's Dirk-lite than he's a better Frank the Tank and we should be happy.
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Re: Knicks-Heat PG Thread 

Post#338 » by HEZI » Sat Jan 6, 2018 4:59 pm

thebuzzardman wrote:
HEZI wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:
Ah, much better. Just say he sucks.

I maintain his perimeter defense is average. The TEAM struggles to guard the 3. I'm not saying he never individually gets beat out there but so do lots of players, including good defenders. The Knick scheme has them overshading to the paint. If KP is a "bad perimeter" defender, then the Knicks don't have one decent one, except maybe Frank, because to a man they all give up a sh*t ton of 3's.

KP needs some work but I think you're getting a little carried away in your enthusiasm to say he sucks in general.


:crazy:

You're always at the edge of some extreme. Step away and walk towards middle ground


What, by saying KP is an average defender on the perimeter and "ok" inside, if you combine the shot blocking/shot altering aspects of his inside play off the fact he'll get bodied by big C's?

Sounds pretty middle of the road to me.


I was talking about taking it to the extreme in regards to what I was saying. I didn't say his overall defense sucks in general, I was pointing out specific situations when it's been poor. When you say inside defense, your including his coming over to help, whereas I wasn't talking about that. I already said he's an excellent help defender when it comes to weakside shot blocking. Where I see him being a poor defender is in 1 on 1 coverage against legit centers. He gets overpowered, gives up deep position, is foul prone, etc. Where I also see him being poor is on recovery to the outside when the ball gets swung around by the other team. Yes a part of that is scheme but the scheme is designed to have him in position to rotate on both the inside and the outside, almost all teams have this designed scheme. Porzingis just happens to be really slow and/or lazy when it comes to coming out to contest an outside shot because he prefers much more to stay around the paint. His pick and roll defense is also not that good, he often drops back way too deep and allows guys to shoot right over the top of him and if he does play them tighter he gets beat off the dribble. These are all areas where he could improve over the years.
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Re: Knicks-Heat PG Thread 

Post#339 » by thebuzzardman » Sat Jan 6, 2018 4:59 pm

Last post crowding up the post game thread by me.

Knicks need someone to goon up when KP is getting manhandled. I know they all love to club together etc in today's NBA, but the Knicks need a player of size to be a little "Russell Westbrookish" and have an attitude problem during games, specifically when it comes to teams bodying/undercutting KP etc. I've seen bigs go at him a lot and seen enough dubious sh*t from guards. And some players need a shove to the floor and a Knick to get some T's and fines to help with this situation.

Hockey has this right. If your team has a skill guy who isn't the most physically imposing guy and team run at him, they are going to be hard hits and retaliations.

Knicks need to protect their gangly semi franchise skilled player and put in certain players minds if they do that stuff, some level of unpleasantness ensure. Elbow to the head, shove in the back, hard foul, shoving match, fight - whatever.
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Re: Knicks-Heat PG Thread 

Post#340 » by OpiumDose » Sat Jan 6, 2018 5:00 pm

thebuzzardman wrote:Here's some fun thoughts that sort of middle ground the KP sucks/is good/is franchise/is not idea.

KP is good but he's not consistently good at anything offensively and it creates a number of challenges for any team and especially a mid-low talent team like the Knicks.

"On KP"
Unicorn in the making, nailing jumpers and 3's, so he spreads the floor yet is still effective inside. So now you can play Kanter or any other low skillish P&R big who rebounds with him as the offense is balanced by having a 7'3" guy playing almost like a 6'7" stretch 4. Height means shot blocking on defense is added bonus over other stretch 4's.
This version of KP also still has the energy to effectively post up and actually do something with it, so spread the floor role players like McD etc look better.

"Off KP"
Can't hit 3's for sh*t. Bad enough to let teams not guard him and they'll live with the odds. Mid range jumper is off. Forces him to be a post player, which at "best of off KP" he's not that effective at and immediately puts him in the same area as the lower skilled bigs (Kanter/KOQ). Truly off KP winds up in the post and is pretty much completely ineffective, wrecking sets with lazy positioning and bad shots, which just compounds the issue.

When KP is "on" (which so far in his career is first 30 games of a season) he's borderline "franchise" but not totally because he lacks enough one on one moves. But he's damn close. He's like 1b. But when KP tails off due to injuries and fatigue (3 for 3 in years so far) he drags down the entire team, especially this year as focal point, because he becomes a tall guy out there with a lot of touches who isn't really great at anything - on offense.

Generally his defense will hold up a shot altering presence and a decent enough man to man defender but when "Off KP" is really present, even his defense disappears for stretches of games.



What? As bad as KP has been lately, there has never been even a moment where opposing teams have decided not to guard him (on and off the ball) - he has been tightly guarded in every single game this season :lol: Even when he is "off" he still stretches the defenses with his gravity on the offensive side of the court. The problem here is the fact that Knicks are pretty much clueless on how to consistently make use of it - that's part coaching and part lack of talent. Also I don't really correlation between him being "off" and him playing more in the post. He has been "off" for a while, but he still shoots threes (3.8 per game in last 10) and long twos.

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