Absurdly early 2018 NBA Draft Thread

Spud2nique · Post #681 » by **Spud2nique** » Sun Jan 7, 2018 4:24 pm

thr3ep01nte4 wrote:I don’t think Bagley is as good as Ayton/Doncic. His standing reach is only one inch higher than Doncic’s. From a post on Peachtree Hoops, Bagley is way too similar to John Collins. That pairing is too worrisome on both ends.
https://www.peachtreehoops.com/2018/1/2/16839514/luka-doncic-2018-nba-draft-prospects-atlanta-hawks-deandre-ayton

Do you like Ayton's footwork? He seems to be lumbering at times. I understand the footwork will get better and agree with duplicating talent like John Collins but we are rebuilding and if it came down to a taking a more talented player due to duplication, I wouldn't hesitate. Take the best talent regardless of position. Been saying that for about 30 years now.

MaceCase · Post #682 » by **MaceCase** » Sun Jan 7, 2018 6:02 pm

I like Ayton’s footwork. In the post he has that quick spin move to the goal either baseline or middle and a shot I’ve begged nearly every Hawk big man to have over the past decade, a turnaround jumper.

He’s mobile around the court, can rotate deep and let his length do the rest on kickouts and pick and rolls. I don’t see it as lumbering for Ayton, his issues are with awareness more so than effort on defense and he’s also methodical on offense because he’s got an actual toolkit to choose from.

Bagley is all flailing knees and elbows, the only pluses I see with him over Ayton are his motor and willingness to push the ball up himself in the open court. As far as skill though?

macd-gm · Post #683 » by **macd-gm** » Sun Jan 7, 2018 6:40 pm

I'm not saying Young will be a star in the NBA because honestly I don't know. But I'm also not going to discount a guy who is averaging 30/10 in big time college hoops. What's the comp for that? Despite his size he's kind of scoring at will. Curry was playing in the Southern Conference facing powerhouses like Wofford, Furman and East Tennessee State. Even so his shooting, quickness, and ball handling translated well to the NBA.

Spud2nique · Post #684 » by **Spud2nique** » Sun Jan 7, 2018 9:17 pm

MaceCase wrote:I like Ayton’s footwork. In the post he has that quick spin move to the goal either baseline or middle and a shot I’ve begged nearly every Hawk big man to have over the past decade, a turnaround jumper.

He’s mobile around the court, can rotate deep and let his length do the rest on kickouts and pick and rolls. I don’t see it as lumbering for Ayton, his issues are with awareness more so than effort on defense and he’s also methodical on offense because he’s got an actual toolkit to choose from.

Bagley is all flailing knees and elbows, the only pluses I see with him over Ayton are his motor and willingness to push the ball up himself in the open court. As far as skill though?

Good analysis I dig! I see flashes of star in both for sure...I guess I saw the eye of the tiger a bit more in Bagley but I'd take Ayton also for sure. You make me feel a lil more comfy with Ayton.

thr3ep01nte4 · Post #685 » by **thr3ep01nte4** » Sun Jan 7, 2018 11:24 pm

Spud2nique wrote:
thr3ep01nte4 wrote:I don’t think Bagley is as good as Ayton/Doncic. His standing reach is only one inch higher than Doncic’s. From a post on Peachtree Hoops, Bagley is way too similar to John Collins. That pairing is too worrisome on both ends.
https://www.peachtreehoops.com/2018/1/2/16839514/luka-doncic-2018-nba-draft-prospects-atlanta-hawks-deandre-ayton

Do you like Ayton's footwork? He seems to be lumbering at times. I understand the footwork will get better and agree with duplicating talent like John Collins but we are rebuilding and if it came down to a taking a more talented player due to duplication, I wouldn't hesitate. Take the best talent regardless of position. Been saying that for about 30 years now.

I do like his offensive footwork as well as his toughness willing to bang in the post. He is a better prospect for the Hawks than Bagley. However, I think the David Robinson comparison is kind of too much. He doesn't have the Admiral's excellent instincts on defense.

As someone else in the Ayton thread points out, he is most similar to Nene, who was a fantastic offensive weapon and an integral part of Wizards' upsets in the playoffs over the Bulls and the Raptors in '14 and '15. He completely exposed DPOY Joakim Noah in 2014 playoffs. Nene was a beast; wanted to dunk on people all the time and had great footwork with a nice midrange jumper. People don't remember he was the 7th pick in 2002, ahead of Stoudamire. Nene's main problems were injuries and being way too emotional on the court.

I think Ayton can develop into that type of offensive weapon with better rebounding, which will be a huge asset for the Hawks going forward.

Watch on YouTube

atlantabbq99 · Post #686 » by **atlantabbq99** » Mon Jan 8, 2018 5:36 am

macd-gm wrote:I'm not saying Young will be a star in the NBA because honestly I don't know. But I'm also not going to discount a guy who is averaging 30/10 in big time college hoops. What's the comp for that? Despite his size he's kind of scoring at will. Curry was playing in the Southern Conference facing powerhouses like Wofford, Furman and East Tennessee State. Even so his shooting, quickness, and ball handling translated well to the NBA.

I'm not a huge fan of Trae, but i can' understand a team taking him if they have the 3rd or 4th pick. Trae's game and evaluation does worry me, he could be Curry/Lillard, but on the other hand, he could be fool's gold like Kemba Walker/Brandon Jennings

Post #687 » by **Jamaaliver** » Mon Jan 8, 2018 12:27 pm

atlantabbq99 wrote:
macd-gm wrote:I'm not saying Young will be a star in the NBA because honestly I don't know. But I'm also not going to discount a guy who is averaging 30/10 in big time college hoops.

I'm not a huge fan of Trae, but i can' understand a team taking him if they have the 3rd or 4th pick.

Yeah, I also worry about how he projects as a NBA prospect.

But he answered the last question for me this past weekend against West Virginia.

WVU adjusted their entire scheme to slow/stop Trae Young. And it worked...sort of. West Virginia won comfortably and forced T Young into one of the worst performances of his young career. They pressed him the entire length of the floor, doubled him in the half court, set defensive ace Jevon Carter on him to deny the ball. They even doubled him on in-bound plays!

And yet the freshman phenom still dropped 29 points on 22 shots with 5 assists. He did have 8 turnovers as well. The biggest issue is that Oklahoma doesn't have another blue chip player to take advantage of all the attention Trae was attracting.

But it was a tightly contested game for most of the night. The more experienced Mountaineers were able to pull away at the end of each half.

Offensively, Trae has none of the measurables you want, but brings the entire arsenal.
Defensively, he's a train wreck. But a lot of it seems by design as he is their entire offensive attack and seems intent on avoiding fouls.

NOTE: WVU Senior PG Jevon Carter is a defensive stud in the mold of Patrick Beverley and could be a worthy addition in the 2nd round.

Spoiler:

Spud2nique · Post #688 » by **Spud2nique** » Mon Jan 8, 2018 4:46 pm

I'd like to dedicate this page to the possibility of us drafting #35 Marvin Bagley!

(I'm not a super fan just more of a numbers guy..)

Post #689 » by **Jamaaliver** » Mon Jan 8, 2018 5:42 pm

Spud2nique wrote:I'd like to dedicate this page to the possibility of us drafting #35 Marvin Bagley!

(I'm not a super fan just more of a numbers guy..)

His production is impressive. He's stated publically that he's modeling his game after Giannis. He's incredibly versatile and athletic. I've got him third on the big board. But I wouldn't be terribly put off if we selected him.

Just so long as we have a long term plan for his development.

Spud2nique · Post #690 » by **Spud2nique** » Mon Jan 8, 2018 5:53 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:
Spud2nique wrote:I'd like to dedicate this page to the possibility of us drafting #35 Marvin Bagley!

(I'm not a super fan just more of a numbers guy..)

His production is impressive. He's stated publically that he's modeling his game after Giannis. He's incredibly versatile and athletic. I've got him third on the big board. But I wouldn't be terribly put off if we selected him.

Just so long as we have a long term plan for his development.

Nice! I have him at 2 or 3 on my big board. Based on feel alone, and I may be completely wrong here, I like him better than Ayton right now. Please bball Gods, give us a shot at one of these dudes.

Spud2nique · Post #691 » by **Spud2nique** » Mon Jan 8, 2018 5:56 pm

Speaking of the draft...last night I watched a replay of the 2017 draft drawing...if you haven't watched it I suggest checking it out...overall pretty boring but the Celtics drew the first pick...then they were drawing for the 2nd pick and the Celtics combination of numbers came up again...then a third time! And the Celts rep threw his fist up in the air...

http://www.nba.com/video/2017/05/16/2017-nba-draft-lottery-drawing#/

Post #692 » by **Jamaaliver** » Mon Jan 8, 2018 6:43 pm

A couple of prospects not among the top 10:

Dzanan Musa (Bosnia & Herzegovina, SG/SF, 1999)

Every so often, Dzanan Musa goes cold or quiet. But at 18 years old, he's standing out for his production and consistency, as well as his undeniable scoring instincts and expanding overall game.

Between Adriatic League, Eurocup and Croatia's A-1, he's averaging 12.0 points in 21.2 minutes, shooting 48.4 percent and 36.4 percent from three. Musa has already had a handful of baskets or key stretches late in games that point to his confidence and competitiveness.

There will be questions about his athleticism and posture leading up to the draft, but Musa has been successful at too many levels. He's looking more like a first-round lock each month.

Anfernee Simons (USA, PG, 1999)

Scout.com's No. 9 recruit, Anfernee Simons is visiting schools, but he's also draft eligible, which he's previously expressed interest in exploring, per ESPN's Jonathan Givony.

With the talent likely to dry up in the 20s, NBA teams could look at Simons as a hit-or-miss, high-reward, high-risk gamble.

He'd need a year in the G League to strengthen his body, confidence and floor game. But Simons' athleticism and scoring should be worth a first-round grade based on long-term potential.

Watch on YouTube

Miles Bridges (Michigan State, SF/PF, Sophomore)

Miles Bridges was operating on cruise control in recent weeks, with Michigan State winning each of its previous five contests by at least 30 points. He couldn't do enough to keep the Spartans in the game against Ohio State on Sunday, though.

He hasn't made any significant changes or improvements since last year. His agility and explosive leaping at the rim continue to show, and he's averaging 2.0 three-point makes again.

But he still looks limited in the half court when forced to put the ball on the floor, as he's shooting just 27.6 percent on dribble jumpers and 22.2 percent on his right drives out of spot-up situations.

Post #693 » by **Jamaaliver** » Tue Jan 9, 2018 2:41 pm

Great in-depth read on Trae and Luka--

Read on Twitter

Luka Doncic and Trae Young Are Changing the Top-Prospect Archetype

The two hottest names on NBA draft boards don’t look like no. 1 picks of years past.

The 2018 draft’s most pressing question: Would you rather have the next Steph Curry or the next unicorn?

If the NBA selected players on stats alone, Luka Doncic and Trae Young would be the top two picks in this year’s draft. The two teenagers are doing things no player their age has ever done before. Even more unusual than what they are doing is how they are doing it.

They are average athletes who have made themselves indefensible by taking 3s at rates that would have been unheard of even a few years ago. They are part of the first generation of players to grow up watching Steph Curry...

Doncic and Young are aggressive players who are always looking to attack, and they aren’t afraid to raise up from way behind the 3-point line. The two players shoot so many 3s off the dribble that defenders can’t afford to give them any breathing room, which makes it easy for them to generate contact and get to the free throw line.

Of course, unlimited shooting range is no guarantee of NBA stardom. Just ask Jimmer Fredette, Doug McDermott, and Buddy Hield.

Three-point shooting is the key that opens up the rest of their game. Doncic and Young are faster with the ball than they are without it because defenders have to honor their ability to shoot.

Young and Doncic are so dynamic with the ball that their coaches have given them complete control of the offense. There’s no need to complicate things: Give an elite shooter and passer a ball screen at the top of the key, and good things will happen.

It’s hard to see either Young or Doncic being a bust at the next level. They are too skilled, and their abilities are too valuable given the way the game is played these days.

The concern for skeptics in NBA front offices is more about their ceiling, especially in comparison to some of the hyper-athletic freaks that will be available at the top of the draft.

Defense is going to be a huge question mark for both players at the next level...and there are legitimate questions about how they will fare against elite length and athleticism in the NBA.

Their careers at the next level could depend on the answers to two interrelated questions:

How much more skilled can they become as they get older?
And how much more skilled can we expect basketball players to become?

The Ringer

Post #694 » by **Jamaaliver** » Tue Jan 9, 2018 2:52 pm

Spud2nique wrote:You guys can talk about Trae Young or Ayton....well you really need to put all your eggs in one basket.

LUKA DONCIC!!!

New hashtag sweeping the nation:

Read on Twitter

thr3ep01nte4 · Post #695 » by **thr3ep01nte4** » Tue Jan 9, 2018 3:41 pm

Based on Tony Ressler and the pedigree of Travis Schlenk, the team may lean towards Doncic in a perimeter-oriented league. Last time a team won a championship with a big man as its best player was 2011 Mavs, and people can argue Dirk wasn’t a true low post big man either.

Post #696 » by **Jamaaliver** » Tue Jan 9, 2018 4:27 pm

thr3ep01nte4 wrote:Based on Tony Ressler and the pedigree of Travis Schlenk, the team may lean towards Doncic in a perimeter-oriented league.

You are probably right.

Passing on D Ayton will be really hard to do at #1, though.

If he was healthy, M Porter Jr. seemed like a legit possibility based on his scoring prowess and ability to play effectively at both ends of the court.

Luka Doncic and Coach Mike Budenholzer do seem like a match made in heaven.

Spoiler:

Post #697 » by **Jamaaliver** » Tue Jan 9, 2018 7:51 pm

Read on Twitter

Spud2nique · Post #698 » by **Spud2nique** » Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:21 am

I'm happy here...

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/2018-nba-mock-draft-trae-young-joins-lebron-james-after-cavs-pick-him-at-no-4/

Post #699 » by **Jamaaliver** » Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:24 pm

Spud2nique wrote:I'm happy here...

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/2018-nba-mock-draft-trae-young-joins-lebron-james-after-cavs-pick-him-at-no-4/

That Mock Draft makes no sense.

It has CLE drafting at #4 with the Brooklyn pick.

But Brooklyn is slated for the 8th worst record in the league. Meaning...they literally can't select at #4 right now.

They'd either win the lottery and garner a top 3 selection or pick 8th or worse. Picking fourth (based on recent standings) is mathematically impossible.

Post #700 » by **Jamaaliver** » Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:01 pm

Read on Twitter

So I watched this game to see the #3 ranked defensive team and how'd they fare guarding Trae Young.

They roughed him up and forced him into some bad shots.

And yet...I come away from this game more comfortable with T Young's NBA prospects.

He is a legit floor general. He's carrying an offensively limited team and he creates 70% of the offense directly.

He had another rough game...and still put up 27 points & 9 assists in a 10 point victory.

If he can have that level of success in some of the worst circumstances, just wait until he gets some good coaching and NBA caliber teammates.

I still don't think he's worthy of #1, but he's definitely top 10 and possibly top 5 worthy selection.

Are you happy with the draft?