Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIV

[dangermouse]

Actually im wrong. Lopez is an UFA a year before Mahinmi, so it shaves a year off Mahinmi's deal.

In that case i dont think it has legs, the value isnt as fair.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

What about

Mahinmi, Morris, CMC, 2020 1st

for Lopez, Mirotic, and some other throw-in of theirs?

Lopez is ~2 years younger and better than Mahinmi, less money per year for the same number of years. Mirotic replaces Morris but he costs a little more per year.

Bulls take on Mahinmi but end up only paying a little extra per year that they were spending on Lopez anyway. They can afford it and they get a future pick for the rebuild and a look at CMC. Probably helps them tank a bit better too.

Bleep yeah.

I'm down for this. I can't see the Bulls going for it but why not offer it?

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[Dark Faze]

I would probably decline. Reason being I don't think it moves the needle enough in any capacity that matters. For example:

A. The cap space it frees up. It saves us some money BUT we're still a tax team.

B. Good chance we don't keep either player beyond the two year deals they are on

C. The needle it moves is probably purely regular season in nature. We'd win more regular season games, but it doesn't present much of a reason to get us past Boston or Cleveland in a series. It does make us more likely to beat some other teams in a series if the seeding is odd in that way.

Basically there's a high chance that the on court gain is marginal and then you're out of a first in a couple of years.

[pcbothwel]

I really like this core, and while EG has squandered many opportunities... the FO/scouting in general has been really good for us. Sato, Oubre, Sheldon Mac, and Devin Robinson all look like great/solid picks and UDFA's for where we got them.

While this entire board agrees that EG has no vision/creativity when it comes to trades and signings, I think we can all agree that our scouting has actually been quite good over the last 3-4 years and I have faith that whatever picks we actually keep will be used correctly in getting solid players.

My focus for any trade now and this summer is clear:
1) Get out of tax this year
2) Keep top 35 pick this year
3) Get out of tax next year

So I would open to trading our 2019 1st so long as we keep our 18 and 20 first. I would also be open to trading this years 1st so long as its a swap/trade back and we stay in top 35 picks and keep 2019 1st. Either scenario works for me so long as the value is right.

Fact is, the NBA is exploding with talent due to influx of money... It really is the easiest of the main 4 sports to market players and LeBron is really responsible for helping with this generations growth.
I think so much talent will be coming out over the next 5-10 years that early 2nds will get you the same quality of players as mid-late 1st.
Yes, there will always be the top 3-5 players in every draft that get generous comps to past greats... but solid talent will continue to be available and with the increase in position-less basketball, it will get even more fun/interesting in putting talent together.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I really like this core, and while EG has squandered many opportunities... the FO/scouting in general has been really good for us. Sato, Oubre, Sheldon Mac, and Devin Robinson all look like great/solid picks and UDFA's for where we got them.

While this entire board agrees that EG has no vision/creativity when it comes to trades and signings, I think we can all agree that our scouting has actually been quite good over the last 3-4 years and I have faith that whatever picks we actually keep will be used correctly in getting solid players.

My focus for any trade now and this summer is clear:
1) Get out of tax this year
2) Keep top 35 pick this year
3) Get out of tax next year

So I would open to trading our 2019 1st so long as we keep our 18 and 20 first. I would also be open to trading this years 1st so long as its a swap/trade back and we stay in top 35 picks and keep 2019 1st. Either scenario works for me so long as the value is right.

Fact is, the NBA is exploding with talent due to influx of money... It really is the easiest of the main 4 sports to market players and LeBron is really responsible for helping with this generations growth.
I think so much talent will be coming out over the next 5-10 years that early 2nds will get you the same quality of players as mid-late 1st.
Yes, there will always be the top 3-5 players in every draft that get generous comps to past greats... but solid talent will continue to be available and with the increase in position-less basketball, it will get even more fun/interesting in putting talent together.

Awesome post!

Yes, if I were a GM I would probably be getting rid of first round picks and try to acquire second rounders. Jevon Carter of West Virginia beat Trae Young of Oklahoma today. I realize that it is a team sport NCAA basketball. Trae Young is going to be a lottery pick. Jevon Carter is going to be a better pro for a couple of years perhaps--or not. He projects to be a second-rounder at the moment.

When I look at teams like Golden State I realize how they are rounding out their roster is with second round picks. Those picks tend to be plus defenders.

The NBA draft usually favors freshmen and tall guys. Players who show good offense tend to be valued higher then guys like Draymond Green was when he came out of college. NCAA seniors just are getting picked very high no matter how good they are.

What does this have to do with Ernie Grunfeld? I hope he's lurking.

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[80sballboy]

Mirotic is intriguing but I don't want Lopez and him. That would make us a much slower team. This is sacrilege to say but I'd rather have Ian. Not his contract but his defensive talent. Lopez is a million times better of an offensive player but his rebounds have come way down to under 5.0 per game and he was putting up great numbers on bad teams. Now he's not even putting up great offensive numbers. I'd rather have at least one strong defensive center than two offensive guys. Also Ian would be much better if we stopped throwing him the ball at the foul line (Sato) and only give it to him if he's under the basket and open.

[long suffrin' boulez fan]

Mirotic is intriguing but I don't want Lopez and him. That would make us a much slower team. This is sacrilege to say but I'd rather have Ian. Not his contract but his defensive talent. Lopez is a million times better of an offensive player but his rebounds have come way down to under 5.0 per game and he was putting up great numbers on bad teams. Now he's not even putting up great offensive numbers. I'd rather have at least one strong defensive center than two offensive guys. Also Ian would be much better if we stopped throwing him the ball at the foul line (Sato) and only give it to him if he's under the basket and open.

I think you’re right about Ian. I’m wondering if there is a way to alter our offense when he’s in there. He can’t catch, pass or shoot. So, can we put him in a position to grab or tip offensive rebounds without having to be in the flow?

[WallToWall]

Andrew Bogut is but a shell of his former self. Still, would there be interest in him? He would be a true center that we need to give us 6 hard fouls, grab a bunch of rebounds, and clog up the middle for 10 minutes a game. He is available...

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Andrew Bogut is but a shell of his former self. Still, would there be interest in him? He would be a true center that we need to give us 6 hard fouls, grab a bunch of rebounds, and clog up the middle for 10 minutes a game. He is available...

I think the Wizards should try to grab him because he may be a better rim protector at this point then Gortat or Ian Mahinmi.

Yes, the Wizards could certainly use those six hard fouls in the playoffs assuming they make them.

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[pcbothwel]

Yes, if I were a GM I would probably be getting rid of first round picks and try to acquire second rounders.

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CCJ, here is the issue and Leonsis mentioned as much a couple weeks ago. The NBA draft should be 3 rounds. RIght now, I agree that 2nds are valuable.. but it falls off a cliff and fast. Pick 37, or 41... sure, but once you hit near/at 50, I would much rather sell it for a couple mil and pick from UDFA. Again, Im talking from an operational POV, not as a fan.

I also think being in our situation instead of being a team like Philly does us good. Why would a UDFA sign with Philly over us knowing how many young players they have on contract and rights to Euros.
With us its "Hey, we will be in the 2nd round of the playoffs and contending... but we have 2-3 open spots where you can make it... see Sheldon Mac and now Devin Robinson."

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Yes, if I were a GM I would probably be getting rid of first round picks and try to acquire second rounders.

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CCJ, here is the issue and Leonsis mentioned as much a couple weeks ago. The NBA draft should be 3 rounds. RIght now, I agree that 2nds are valuable.. but it falls off a cliff and fast. Pick 37, or 41... sure, but once you hit near/at 50, I would much rather sell it for a couple mil and pick from UDFA. Again, Im talking from an operational POV, not as a fan.

I also think being in our situation instead of being a team like Philly does us good. Why would a UDFA sign with Philly over us knowing how many young players they have on contract and rights to Euros.
With us its "Hey, we will be in the 2nd round of the playoffs and contending... but we have 2-3 open spots where you can make it... see Sheldon Mac and now Devin Robinson."

I talk badly about him a lot...but I totally agree with Ted Leonsis on this issue. The NBA draft should be three rounds. (It could even be five rounds or more as far as I am concerned. Might improve the quality of the product, the NBA game.)

I think he is absolutely right that three rounds makes a whole bunch more sense.

Back in the 80s I believe there were several rounds in the NBA because I remember a Maryland player named Jeff Atkins got drafted to the Bulls the very same time that Michael Jordan went to the Bulls. I think he went in something like the sixth round.

Off the top of my head I want to say Sedale Threatt that made the NBA from one of those low rounds. Another used to play with the Philadelphia 76ers. It was either Mo Cheeks or Clint Richardson (??) I think his name was. It was not uncommon for a lower round player to outperform even first and second round picks.



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[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Yes, if I were a GM I would probably be getting rid of first round picks and try to acquire second rounders.

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CCJ, here is the issue and Leonsis mentioned as much a couple weeks ago. The NBA draft should be 3 rounds. RIght now, I agree that 2nds are valuable.. but it falls off a cliff and fast. Pick 37, or 41... sure, but once you hit near/at 50, I would much rather sell it for a couple mil and pick from UDFA. Again, Im talking from an operational POV, not as a fan.

I also think being in our situation instead of being a team like Philly does us good. Why would a UDFA sign with Philly over us knowing how many young players they have on contract and rights to Euros.
With us its "Hey, we will be in the 2nd round of the playoffs and contending... but we have 2-3 open spots where you can make it... see Sheldon Mac and now Devin Robinson."

Pcbothwel, I do not believe the talent drops off after the mid-30s.

There are so many guaranteed contracts and so few roster spots that the likelihood of a person being able to make the team drops off after the mid thirties. Manu Ginobili was the 57th pick.

There is a Manu Ginobili in this draft class I'm sure who will not be drafted in the NBA.

That has nothing to do with your point but I'm just saying I don't think the talent drops. Just my opinion.

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[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Sheldon Mac and Devin Robinson are very exciting players. I just hope we have the right coach to get them in the game before we lose their rights.

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[WallToWall]

They may decide to blow it up in la-la land. So how about this for a trade:
Ingram + Randle for first round pick + Jason Smith + Meeks
Trade ID #6987961 works in trade checker.

Follow that up with signing Bogut.

[Ruzious]

Andrew Bogut is but a shell of his former self. Still, would there be interest in him? He would be a true center that we need to give us 6 hard fouls, grab a bunch of rebounds, and clog up the middle for 10 minutes a game. He is available...

He also sets the hardest picks in the NBA - I think that's why GS acquired Zaza - who's right up there. Bogut's no scoring threat at this point, but he can still help with the little things that help win games, imo.

[pcbothwel]

Pcbothwel, I do not believe the talent drops off after the mid-30s.

Maybe I should clarify my point. The talent doesnt necessarily drop off, but the advantage of pick 40 over pick 50 goes beyond just the ten players in between. You have to factor how close you are to the end of the draft and every team starts from Zero again and have free reign to sign any UDFA.
I.E. Look at the Bucks and LAC situation this last draft. Bucks sitting at pick 48 have a number of players in the same tier with different pros and cons. I could simply take one of the players within that tier, or I take the LAC offer of 2.5M for the pick and hope one of those players fall past 60 to UDFA. If Im not a GM for a rich franchise or their isnt a clear cut player I want... I definitely sell the pick and put 2.5M in my owners pocket for a rainy day.

Now, I may miss out on Monte Morris, Alec Peters, and Alpha Kaba... But I just pocketed 2.5M and can just sign Devin Robinson, Beachem, Cam Oliver, or John Motley.

Also, all UDFA's are having their agents look at each offer and say "What team has a good organization for development and who has open roster spots?"
A team like the Wiz with less certitude at the end of the roster gets the leg up.
Why would Devin Robinson choose a team like Philly when his agent would see young, cheap, and controlled players like Korkmaz, Anderson, Bolden, TLC, and McAdoo on the roster.

[trast66]

Yes, if I were a GM I would probably be getting rid of first round picks and try to acquire second rounders.

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CCJ, here is the issue and Leonsis mentioned as much a couple weeks ago. The NBA draft should be 3 rounds. RIght now, I agree that 2nds are valuable.. but it falls off a cliff and fast. Pick 37, or 41... sure, but once you hit near/at 50, I would much rather sell it for a couple mil and pick from UDFA. Again, Im talking from an operational POV, not as a fan.

I also think being in our situation instead of being a team like Philly does us good. Why would a UDFA sign with Philly over us knowing how many young players they have on contract and rights to Euros.
With us its "Hey, we will be in the 2nd round of the playoffs and contending... but we have 2-3 open spots where you can make it... see Sheldon Mac and now Devin Robinson."

I talk badly about him a lot...but I totally agree with Ted Leonsis on this issue. The NBA draft should be three rounds. (It could even be five rounds or more as far as I am concerned. Might improve the quality of the product, the NBA game.)

I think he is absolutely right that three rounds makes a whole bunch more sense.

Back in the 80s I believe there were several rounds in the NBA because I remember a Maryland player named Jeff Atkins got drafted to the Bulls the very same time that Michael Jordan went to the Bulls. I think he went in something like the sixth round.

Off the top of my head I want to say Sedale Threatt that made the NBA from one of those low rounds. Another used to play with the Philadelphia 76ers. It was either Mo Cheeks or Clint Richardson (??) I think his name was. It was not uncommon for a lower round player to outperform even first and second round picks.



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If the NBA were to add a round to the draft either have to take off the age restriction or allow guys that get drafted in 3rd the option of turning down the pick and returning to school, like baseball players. The NCAA and the players union would have to be part of the discussion when adding another round to the draft so assume it's complicated.

[trast66]

I really like this core, and while EG has squandered many opportunities... the FO/scouting in general has been really good for us. Sato, Oubre, Sheldon Mac, and Devin Robinson all look like great/solid picks and UDFA's for where we got them.

While this entire board agrees that EG has no vision/creativity when it comes to trades and signings, I think we can all agree that our scouting has actually been quite good over the last 3-4 years and I have faith that whatever picks we actually keep will be used correctly in getting solid players.

My focus for any trade now and this summer is clear:
1) Get out of tax this year
2) Keep top 35 pick this year
3) Get out of tax next year

So I would open to trading our 2019 1st so long as we keep our 18 and 20 first. I would also be open to trading this years 1st so long as its a swap/trade back and we stay in top 35 picks and keep 2019 1st. Either scenario works for me so long as the value is right.

Fact is, the NBA is exploding with talent due to influx of money... It really is the easiest of the main 4 sports to market players and LeBron is really responsible for helping with this generations growth.
I think so much talent will be coming out over the next 5-10 years that early 2nds will get you the same quality of players as mid-late 1st.
Yes, there will always be the top 3-5 players in every draft that get generous comps to past greats... but solid talent will continue to be available and with the increase in position-less basketball, it will get even more fun/interesting in putting talent together.

Agree with all this, but I'm afraid Ted's order to Ernie is to maximize wins while Wall here and stay out of luxury tax, which Ernie will do by trading picks for salary dumps and occasional Kieff type players along with low vet (Scott, Meeks) type signings. I truly doubt we make one draft pick for 2 years, maybe 3.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

CCJ, here is the issue and Leonsis mentioned as much a couple weeks ago. The NBA draft should be 3 rounds. RIght now, I agree that 2nds are valuable.. but it falls off a cliff and fast. Pick 37, or 41... sure, but once you hit near/at 50, I would much rather sell it for a couple mil and pick from UDFA. Again, Im talking from an operational POV, not as a fan.

I also think being in our situation instead of being a team like Philly does us good. Why would a UDFA sign with Philly over us knowing how many young players they have on contract and rights to Euros.
With us its "Hey, we will be in the 2nd round of the playoffs and contending... but we have 2-3 open spots where you can make it... see Sheldon Mac and now Devin Robinson."

I talk badly about him a lot...but I totally agree with Ted Leonsis on this issue. The NBA draft should be three rounds. (It could even be five rounds or more as far as I am concerned. Might improve the quality of the product, the NBA game.)

I think he is absolutely right that three rounds makes a whole bunch more sense.

Back in the 80s I believe there were several rounds in the NBA because I remember a Maryland player named Jeff Atkins got drafted to the Bulls the very same time that Michael Jordan went to the Bulls. I think he went in something like the sixth round.

Off the top of my head I want to say Sedale Threatt that made the NBA from one of those low rounds. Another used to play with the Philadelphia 76ers. It was either Mo Cheeks or Clint Richardson (??) I think his name was. It was not uncommon for a lower round player to outperform even first and second round picks.



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If the NBA were to add a round to the draft either have to take off the age restriction or allow guys that get drafted in 3rd the option of turning down the pick and returning to school, like baseball players. The NCAA and the players union would have to be part of the discussion when adding another round to the draft so assume it's complicated.

Both great ideas IMO, trast.

Take off the age restriction.
Allow guys to turn down their selection after a certain pick, say round 3.

The NCAA is essentially banking on freshmen like Marvin Bagley Jr. Free (slave IMO) labor that feeds the BILLIONS MADE before and during March Madness. There should NOT be an age restriction. Tennis doesn't do that. Far as I know neither do NHL, MLB, or NFL.

[80sballboy]

I talk badly about him a lot...but I totally agree with Ted Leonsis on this issue. The NBA draft should be three rounds. (It could even be five rounds or more as far as I am concerned. Might improve the quality of the product, the NBA game.)

I think he is absolutely right that three rounds makes a whole bunch more sense.

Back in the 80s I believe there were several rounds in the NBA because I remember a Maryland player named Jeff Atkins got drafted to the Bulls the very same time that Michael Jordan went to the Bulls. I think he went in something like the sixth round.

Off the top of my head I want to say Sedale Threatt that made the NBA from one of those low rounds. Another used to play with the Philadelphia 76ers. It was either Mo Cheeks or Clint Richardson (??) I think his name was. It was not uncommon for a lower round player to outperform even first and second round picks.



Sent from my Moto G (4) using RealGM mobile app

If the NBA were to add a round to the draft either have to take off the age restriction or allow guys that get drafted in 3rd the option of turning down the pick and returning to school, like baseball players. The NCAA and the players union would have to be part of the discussion when adding another round to the draft so assume it's complicated.

Both great ideas IMO, trast.

Take off the age restriction.
Allow guys to turn down their selection after a certain pick, say round 3.

The NCAA is essentially banking on freshmen like Marvin Bagley Jr. Free (slave IMO) labor that feeds the BILLIONS MADE before and during March Madness. There should NOT be an age restriction. Tennis doesn't do that. Far as I know neither do NHL, MLB, or NFL.

I think they should come out and if they want to ruin their lives fine (if they are not ready). They can go to Europe and the G-Legue before they go to the NBA if they are not ready (most aren't). Not everybody has to go to college or is college material. But if you go to college, you should stay at least 2 years. The one-and-done is a joke. A lot of dudes are not Marvin Bagley Jr. and need 2-3 years. But sure, if they don't want a college eduction (what is wrong with that), they now have more options with the G-League.

Baseball makes you go 3 years if you do not go from HS to the minor leagues. The NFL says you have to go to three years in college and can come out as a junior or r-sophomore. That's understandable because 18-year olds are physically not ready for the NFL. That's not f-ing tennis and tennis has changed their rules over the years because players like Jennifer Capriati were playing at 13 or 14 and ruining their lives thanks to overbearing fathers. I think you can be 16 and play a limited schedule and be 18 to play regularly.

Not sure what the NHL does, but from what I know, most of the players either come from college or they get drafted and go to juniors and then the minors. The rare great players go right to the NHL at 19 but there are a lot of different avenues.