Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 4

[jredsaz]

I'm curious how this team is going to look Friday. I don't expect a win, but I'd like to build on our impressive game against the Thunder and be competitive. It's not too often that you have 4 full days between game days, and I'm sure Triano is happy to get in a few practices in a row at home.

I think with the long break and preparation time, it being at home, and with Harden out, we have a pretty good shot. They will likely be pumped too since it's on national tv.

This has big Booker game written all over it.

[NavLDO]

I agree that McD will wait until the summer to make any significant moves. At that time, he might be able to add one player via trade and another via free agency.

Assuming we do not draft Bagley, Ayton or Young, whomever we draft will start their careers at the back end of our rotation. The holes at PG and C will need to be filled by vets for a couple years. I guess it's possible that if Jackson improves his 3 ball and his defense, he and Booker could start in the back court.

The real question in my mind is what will be done with Knight. Perhaps he earns that starting PG spot and we don't need to look outside the roster for that vet. But if we add a vet and a draftee, how don't know how we move Knight. Complicated.

You think Doncic would start at the back end of our rotation?

So literal, BW! No. I'm just not sure we would draft him in any case. If we're so high on him as to overlook the positional issues, maybe we pull a Boston and trade down for Ayton, Bamba or Young. If we do draft him, I imagine he's in the starting lineup pretty quickly, but I do think that creates more immediate problems with positional overlap that we would have to address on a more advanced timeline than we'd likely prefer.... but yeah, I guess we probably do take him #1.

What would your starting lineup look like in that case? You can't seriously be thinking Donkic/Booker/Warren/Chriss/Chandler, can you?

Yes, exactly. I wasn't aware of Doncic's PG abilities until I started reading more up on him; he truly does seem to be a 'super-baller' that can play anywhere from 1-3...and well. He's like Simmons, except SF-sized instead of PF-sized, and of course, 'hyped' to be EVEN better. I'll have to 'see it to believe it' on the last assertion. But even if he's 'almost' as good, that's a win,

So if by some miracle (it ain't happening...we're actually 'too good' for it to happen), we were to be able to draft him, then yes, we put him at PG and forget about him for years.

Doncic/Booker/Warren/Chriss or Bender/Len or Chandler

However, in all likelihood, we draft around 10th-12th and take Sexton, Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, or Troy Brown at PG or Williams, Carter, or McCoy at PF/C, and make due.

[RaisingArizona]

Gambo is right.

[LukasBMW]

Here were a couple of suggestions from the Hornets board, though I'm for keeping our picks and young guys...

There have been several OK ideas mentioned so far. I thought that the Knicks trade mentioned not long ago was OK. Phoenix could be a good partner.

The Suns were reportedly interested in trading Jackson for Kyrie till they learned that Kyrie wouldn’t resign in Phoenix so I can see them offering the same for Kemba.

The Bucks pick, and Heat pick plus Josh Jackson and Tyler Ulis for Kemba Walker seems like a decent return.

Would this be in the ball park for a Kemba Walker trade to Phoenix:

Phoenix 2018, Miami 2018, Milwaukee 2018, Brandon Knight and Dragan Bender.

No way. F-no!

[bwgood77]

I'm curious how this team is going to look Friday. I don't expect a win, but I'd like to build on our impressive game against the Thunder and be competitive. It's not too often that you have 4 full days between game days, and I'm sure Triano is happy to get in a few practices in a row at home.

I think with the long break and preparation time, it being at home, and with Harden out, we have a pretty good shot. They will likely be pumped too since it's on national tv.

Weirdly, we play much better in road games than at home.

It's been about the same. We've won 8 at each place, and lost 14 at home and 12 on the road. But our first two games of the season were at home too, when we didn't start so well.

[bwgood77]

There are far more teams chasing wing players -- shooting guards/small forwards -- than quality talent available at those positions. Drafts have been lean on those spots in recent years, and they're in great demand now.

Detroit, New Orleans, New York and Portland are a few of the teams most interested in upgrades, but the true list is much longer.... ... Teams are targeting the availability of Brooklyn's DeMarre Carroll, Utah's Alec Burks, Orlando's Evan Fournier and Atlanta's Kent Bazemore, among others. The Lakers have made it clear that Clarkson, Julius Randle and Larry Nance are available.

Atlanta is pushing to unload veterans and gather more draft picks and young players. Bazemore, Ersan Ilyasova and Marco Belinelli are expendable.

The Bulls are still planning to trade forward Nikola Mirotic, which can't happen until Jan. 15 or without his permission, based on his contract. Mirotic has been intrigued with the Utah Jazz, whose coach, Quin Snyder, has a reputation for maximizing offensive talent.

Memphis wants to find a first-round pick for Tyreke Evans, but that is likely to prove difficult. The Grizzlies have missed in several drafts on first-rounders, including the waiving of 2015 No. 17 pick Wade Baldwin, and need to replenish their stock of picks. As a rental on an expiring deal, it is hard to imagine Evans delivering that kind of a return.

So far, New Orleans is determined to re-sign center DeMarcus Cousins and hasn't invited trade offers on him.

Teams are curious to study Memphis' plans with center Marc Gasol, but so far, the Grizzlies say they're planning to keep him.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/page/Woj22002854/nba-trade-deadline-biggest-storylines-potential-deals-watch-adrian-wojnarowski

A guy I like a lot is Bazemore if the Suns could unload Knight in the deal.

Possibly Knight, MIA 1st for Bazemore? Probably not enough given the apparent dearth in the wing market.

I can't stand Bazemore, but that's probably because I have had him in fantasy basketball. I don't really like him period, but on top of that he is drastically overpaid. I would also say that it would take a first rounder to unload Knight anyway, so I guess in this scenario we'd be taking Bazemore for free basically, though I'm not sure I want that contract.

[SideSwipe]

Tyreke....fits the mold of both now and future. The price should be decent, and we get to try before we buy. We have capspace to sign him this offseason, and his size and talent in the backcourt would cause absolute fits to opposing defenses, while giving us versatile defense at the other end.

Reke/Booker offense on would open up the inside like a can of beans at a campfire, leaving Warren, Chriss, Bender, Len to play foil to the lane penetration. If Reke came and looked good, maybe take a look at DJ this summer, if Reke doesn't look good or gets injured, then we might only be out a #2 pick.

Reke
Booker
Warren
Bender
DJ

[lilfishi22]

No, it really doesn't. At least it doesn't have to. Am I the only person that can be creative? Coaches, players, media, and fans alike all talk about this 'positionless' NBA, but yet can't seem grasp its meaning or impact. We have PFs that take the majority of their shots from outside the arc (252 vs 206), SGs and PGs that need to be able to soot the 3, so be it Booker, Daniels, Reed, or whoever our PG/Combo Guard will be, can shoot the 3s, leaving the Warren and our Center to shoot twos...and 40+% of his twos are over 10ft.

But, whatever, I guess we could just do things the way we always do, and not think outside of the box at all...

I have a hard time considering TJ a #3 option on a contender. Not having a 3-ball really hurts. We already see it now with our lack of spacing when he's on the floor. We also see when his defender completely disrespects his shot and batters down closer to the hoop baiting him into shooting the 3. Perhaps if we had 35%+ 3PT shooters in at least 3 other positions on the floor with him at the same time his weakness can be mitigated but right now, we have some of the worst spacing because we don't shoot the 3 ball well and TJ having the 2nd highest USG% and not having a 3 ball is a big part of it. Josh Jackson shoots the 3 better than him right now and that's scary.

Maybe he's fine if we are OK with being just a fringe playoff team but if we wanted to get to the next level and for TJ to be a major part of that, I do believe he needs to shoot the 3 reliably. It might not be that evident now since we're not a good team and he's still putting up an efficient 20ppg but on the highest levels, his weakness will 100% be exploited.

All this and we haven't even talked about his total lack of a passing game. In 1283 minutes played this season, TJ has logged 57 assists. JJ has 12 less assists in over 400 less min played. Marquese Chriss who has ZERO playmaking responsibilities has 6 less assists in 400 less min played. His assist rate is almost identical to that of a notorious black hole and who many considered would never get a ring with his style of basketball and that's 33 year old Melo which is a career low for him.

Let me put it in another way, in the last 5 seasons, of the 12 players with USG% higher than .25% (suggesting they are a considerable part of a team's offense), an AST% less than .10% (suggesting they aren't good passers), virtually all of them were big men. Of the 4 wings, Klay, TJ, Nick Young, Barnes, only Klay played on a winning team.

The only reason TJ gets a pass is because he's young, we don't have many shooters and he's an efficient scorer. I'm not hating on TJ, I'm not saying he's a bad player and I'm not saying he can't be on a good team but as I said, it might be OK for now but if we want to be a better team collectively and if he wants to take his game to the next level, he can't JUST be an efficient scorer.

And I'm not necessarily at odds with you, but as I alluded, once Chriss/Bender become more consistent, we have PFs that shoot the 3 at a clip of 38% or higher; we have Booker that does as well; once we bring in a 3rd, be it Reed with Booker as the Combo, or some PG with Booker as the SG...whatever. That's 3 of 5 'shooters'. Using the 'traditional' model, most teams only have 2-3 3PT threats...some have 4...but it's certainly not a requirement.

Regarding his assists, he had 5 just 2 games ago...he had 4 back on 12/20...and is averaging 1.8 per game his past 10 games. Overall, his AP48 is 2.1. Porter's is 2.8. Wiggins is 2.3. Ariza is 2.2. Tobias Harris is 2.6. And Bojan Bogdanovich is 2.2. Not to mention Covington (2.8), Stan the Man (2.5), and MKG (2.2). So, rather than just looking at it in a vacuum against another stat of his, look at other starting SFs and their numbers, and you see the while Warren's number are less, we're talking, in many cases, just fractions less.

But the big piece here, is again, understanding that Warren is a different animal than any other SF out there; he's special in that regard. Rather than look at that as a problem that needs to be hidden, why not find a way to take advantage of the skillset so that we have a weapon that no one else has...an unconventional offense that will require extra attention to defend against.

But whatever, I'm not a coach, not a player...just a fan. What do I know? Maybe there's no way to make it work in it's current form...

My whole point is that TJ right now is a fine player but for us to take our game to the next level collectively, he needs to do more than just be an efficient 2PT scorer. We're going to struggle getting up to the upper echelon of the playoff brackets if our 2nd/3rd best scorer is a wing that can't shoot 3's or pass very well. It's just the way the NBA is today. You need to spread the floor for your star players to flourish and be most effective. If we want a great complementary scorer next to Booker, we need someone that can hit the 3 because Harden didn't become Harden and averaging double digit assists by playing next to guys who can't hit 3's. I want that complementary scorer to be Warren but he needs to have a reliable 3 ball if we are to be a contender.

Regarding the assists, the only 2 players who comes close to TJ in USG% is Wiggins and Harris. Neither guys are great passers but neither players a liability from the 3 either, in other words, they provide an outlet for passers. TJ doesn't pass much and he doesn't shoot the 3 ball. As I mentioned already, if we want TJ to be a 2nd option on a upper echelon playoff team, he needs to be able to pass and/or spread the floor for your #1 option.

And to say TJ is a 'different animal' means very little. He's different in that he's only very good at one thing. He's different in that he can't hit 3's like many of the top SF's. He's different in that he has a low assist rates compared to his high usage. I'm not saying he can't be on a good team but his weakness is very apparent already. When teams scout out team better and see what TJ can and can't do, it's going to be an issue for us.

[jredsaz]

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/page/Woj22002854/nba-trade-deadline-biggest-storylines-potential-deals-watch-adrian-wojnarowski

A guy I like a lot is Bazemore if the Suns could unload Knight in the deal.

Possibly Knight, MIA 1st for Bazemore? Probably not enough given the apparent dearth in the wing market.

I can't stand Bazemore, but that's probably because I have had him in fantasy basketball. I don't really like him period, but on top of that he is drastically overpaid. I would also say that it would take a first rounder to unload Knight anyway, so I guess in this scenario we'd be taking Bazemore for free basically, though I'm not sure I want that contract.

He can shoot and has high assist and rebounding percentages for his position. He can guard accross multiple positions with his length and has shown good consistent defensive numbers.

I would consider it to dump Knight and get a productive player back. But when push comes to shove I don't pull the trigger. I think we can get a better player with that asset and Monroe.

[jredsaz]

Tyreke....fits the mold of both now and future. The price should be decent, and we get to try before we buy. We have capspace to sign him this offseason, and his size and talent in the backcourt would cause absolute fits to opposing defenses, while giving us versatile defense at the other end.

Reke/Booker offense on would open up the inside like a can of beans at a campfire, leaving Warren, Chriss, Bender, Len to play foil to the lane penetration. If Reke came and looked good, maybe take a look at DJ this summer, if Reke doesn't look good or gets injured, then we might only be out a #2 pick.

Reke
Booker
Warren
Bender
DJ

That's the best bang for your buck if you can get him for a second round pick or two.

[bigfoot]

There are far more teams chasing wing players -- shooting guards/small forwards -- than quality talent available at those positions. Drafts have been lean on those spots in recent years, and they're in great demand now.

Detroit, New Orleans, New York and Portland are a few of the teams most interested in upgrades, but the true list is much longer.... ... Teams are targeting the availability of Brooklyn's DeMarre Carroll, Utah's Alec Burks, Orlando's Evan Fournier and Atlanta's Kent Bazemore, among others. The Lakers have made it clear that Clarkson, Julius Randle and Larry Nance are available.

Atlanta is pushing to unload veterans and gather more draft picks and young players. Bazemore, Ersan Ilyasova and Marco Belinelli are expendable.

The Bulls are still planning to trade forward Nikola Mirotic, which can't happen until Jan. 15 or without his permission, based on his contract. Mirotic has been intrigued with the Utah Jazz, whose coach, Quin Snyder, has a reputation for maximizing offensive talent.

Memphis wants to find a first-round pick for Tyreke Evans, but that is likely to prove difficult. The Grizzlies have missed in several drafts on first-rounders, including the waiving of 2015 No. 17 pick Wade Baldwin, and need to replenish their stock of picks. As a rental on an expiring deal, it is hard to imagine Evans delivering that kind of a return.

So far, New Orleans is determined to re-sign center DeMarcus Cousins and hasn't invited trade offers on him.

Teams are curious to study Memphis' plans with center Marc Gasol, but so far, the Grizzlies say they're planning to keep him.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/page/Woj22002854/nba-trade-deadline-biggest-storylines-potential-deals-watch-adrian-wojnarowski

A guy I like a lot is Bazemore if the Suns could unload Knight in the deal.

Possibly Knight, MIA 1st for Bazemore? Probably not enough given the apparent dearth in the wing market.

Yeah I like him a lot too. He would definitely improve the defense and 3 point shooting with Ulis out. Delivers a decent number of assists as well. I think he could be pried from Atlanta for some of our picks and Monroe.

[NTB]

I think with the long break and preparation time, it being at home, and with Harden out, we have a pretty good shot. They will likely be pumped too since it's on national tv.

Weirdly, we play much better in road games than at home.

It's been about the same. We've won 8 at each place, and lost 14 at home and 12 on the road. But our first two games of the season were at home too, when we didn't start so well.

When you check team stats and player stats, most of our players seem to be better on the road. Booker, Len, Bender, Jackson, Canaan has better stats. (Daniels, Chandler, Chriss is better at home)

Also our PPG on road is 106.2 while it is 105.3 at home.
22.5 APG on road, 19.2 APG at home.
45.6 RPG on road, 44.6 RPG at home.
7.4 SPG on road, 6.3 SPG at home.

[Mulhollanddrive]

I'd wait for free agency for Tyreke Evans we need to know how much he'll cost for the next 4 years.

[jredsaz]

I'd wait for free agency for Tyreke Evans we need to know how much he'll cost for the next 4 years.

If you can get him for a 2nd round pick you have to pull the trigger. Gives the Suns the edge in free agency.

[Mulhollanddrive]

I'd prefer Ricky Rubio is we're going to trade for an established PG.

[Christine-In-AZ]

What makes people think Miami would trade Dragic? They are currently the 5 seed and a half game out of the 4 seed. Sure it's pretty tight in the conference but why would a team a half game out of HCA in the first round trade their best player?

+ I doubt he would want to come back here.
+ He doesn't fit the timeline

Not advocating for a Dragic return but him and Ryan have buried the hatchet, should anyone think Goran is still upset with PHX

Minute 35:30
http://c.espnradio.com/audio/3447709/lowepost_2018-01-04-163209.mp3

[jredsaz]

I will also say about Tyreke that his 3pt shooting has been consistantly good for the last 3 seasons.

[bigfoot]

Weirdly, we play much better in road games than at home.

It's been about the same. We've won 8 at each place, and lost 14 at home and 12 on the road. But our first two games of the season were at home too, when we didn't start so well.

When you check team stats and player stats, most of our players seem to be better on the road. Booker, Len, Bender, Jackson, Canaan has better stats. (Daniels, Chandler, Chriss is better at home)

Also our PPG on road is 106.2 while it is 105.3 at home.
22.5 APG on road, 19.2 APG at home.
45.6 RPG on road, 44.6 RPG at home.
7.4 SPG on road, 6.3 SPG at home.

Playing at Talking Stick arena is a road game !!!! ... 2/3 people in Arizona aren't from Arizona. Almost 60% crowd is going to be rooting for the opposing team.

[jredsaz]

I'd prefer Ricky Rubio is we're going to trade for an established PG.

Couldn't disagree more. Need shooters around Booker, Warren, and Jackson.

[Revived]

In that article I saw Jordan Clarkson's name come up again. Is he someone worth pursuing? If so, what would it cost to get him?

I imagine Monroe and a Bucks first if he's still good.

He is an scorer. Kind on Lou Williams/Jamal Crawford but a little bit less talented. Not good defensively, but not terrible.
I don't like the fit here, I wouldn't trade for him.

He will look better away from LA imo. I’d trade Monroe/2nd for him.