Political Roundtable Part XVII

[stilldropin20]

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[stilldropin20]

solid article. Its definately not intended to be a "pro" trump article so you guys might enjoy it.

lead: We (finally) do NOT have another sit on his hands president. This man refuses to be couched!!!

NYT are jerks about subscriptions so If anyone wants me to copy and paste just ask.

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[queridiculo]

Ben Carson Discovers $516.4 BILLION In Mismanaged Funds

Nope:
https://www.factcheck.org/2017/04/carson-didnt-find-hud-errors/

Net result of differences(not discovered by Carson in any way) was:

“Overall, the combined adjustments to the consolidated financial statements resulted in a net adjustment of $3 million, but no change in HUD’s financial position or impact on our programs.”

Never let the facts get in the way of a good story. #alternativeFacts

[dckingsfan]

I would say a majority of Rs weren't for Moore, many came out publically and many more did it privately - and it showed at the ballot box.

That's an awfully charitable take considering the RNC gave Moore full support. Again, after the allegations came out, they offered full funding/backing for Moore.

On the other hand, Jeff Flake made a tweet, so #NotAllRepublicans I guess.

Trump was the driver in both backing Moore and not condemning Nazis. But then - do we lump Trump with all Rs? I don't.

How many Republicans condemned Moore's actions or Trump's actions after Charlottesville? Their silence on these issues should tell us what exactly?

Again back to the tribalism and the us/them thinking. Are there racists in the R camp - yep - but no where near a majority. Are there racists in the D camp - sure.

Do you actually believe there are an equal number of racists in both parties?

Have you watched Fox News in the last 15 years? Have you seen a Trump rally? Did you know Trump ran his campaign on deporting Muslims and building a border wall that Mexico will pay for? Have you seen Jeff Sessions' body of work? How about Breitbart and Steve Bannon?

I don't know what to tell you, man, if you think there are racists on both sides. Centrism is a helluva drug.

But realistically - don't we need both sides to improve for the countries sake?

No, we don't. We need two parties, but that doesn't mean we need the GOP.

DC, you're not making a strong case for Independents here. The GOP has drifted so far to the right that you're finding yourself defending abhorrent things in the name of centrism. This is a bad look for you, bro.

I get it - you are a single issue guy and it is us against them. You can't possibly see the actions of the majority of the Rs through any kind of lens other than "they are all racist".

And you made a point a long time ago that the chances of adding a third-party are nil. So, YES - we need the Rs to change back.

And YES, we need the Ds to change too! But I am not sure you can swallow that one either - your mantra is they don't need to change, just come out and vote.

[Pointgod]

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[Pointgod]

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[gtn130]

I get it - you are a single issue guy and it is us against them. You can't possibly see the actions of the majority of the Rs through any kind of lens other than "they are all racist".

We've covered this, but being a single issue voter and finding certain positions to be disqualifying are different things. Like if the Democrats supported ISIS and wanted to import ISIS soldiers into the US, I'd vote against them!

To your second point - why on earth should the GOP be afforded this type latitude? Only some Republicans are racist, the others merely aid and abet them! Well I'm sold.

Let me help you here. These honorable and statesmanly GOPe types who are complicit in the Trump presidency are all on the wrong side of history and will go down as the bad guys. Hope this helps.

[dckingsfan]

I get it - you are a single issue guy and it is us against them. You can't possibly see the actions of the majority of the Rs through any kind of lens other than "they are all racist".

We've covered this, but being a single issue voter and finding certain positions to be disqualifying are different things. Like if the Democrats supported ISIS and wanted to import ISIS soldiers into the US, I'd vote against them!

To your second point - why on earth should the GOP be afforded this type latitude? Only some Republicans are racist, the others merely aid and abet them! Well I'm sold.

Let me help you here. These honorable and statesmanly GOPe types who are complicit in the Trump presidency are all on the wrong side of history and will go down as the bad guys. Hope this helps.

You realize there was a huge never Trump movement. You neglect to see any nuance in that?

You realize Trump won the election and many that traditionally voted D swung over? Why? According to your narrative, they all racist and that just isn't the case.

I am a never Trump person. I am not an R. But the Ds haven't shown they can govern effectively enough for me to vote flat D - especially at the local and state level. How are you as a D going to improve your party?

I would ask the Rs the same question - how are they going to recover after Trump, what is going to make me want to vote for them?

[gtn130]

You realize there was a huge never Trump movement. You neglect to see any nuance in that?

What's chief #NeverTrumper Lindsey Graham up to these days? Let me help:

You realize Trump won the election and many that traditionally voted D swung over? Why? According to your narrative, they all racist and that just isn't the case.

No? I don't think every single person who voted Trump in 2016 is an evil racist, although the majority of them are. I do think, however, that the folks still carrying water for Trump today are evil racists and/or depraved political hacks seeking personal gain.

And, again, Ds didn't 'swing over' to Trump - they stayed home because Hillary had emails, Benghazi, Donna Brazile or something.

I am a never Trump person. I am not an R. But the Ds haven't shown they can govern effectively enough for me to vote flat D - especially at the local and state level. How are you as a D going to improve your party?

Do you think your political calculus is the same as everyone else's? The vast, vast majority of Trump voters give zero **** about local politics and were just voting on lib tears, racism and tax cuts. Dems lost because Hillary was a bad candidate who was villainized by Fox News for the last two decades.

You can revise history as much as you want, but the fact remains that identity politics played a far greater role in the election than economic anxiety. Again, look at what Trump ran on: deporting brown people and building a wall to keep other brown people out.

[dckingsfan]

No? I don't think every single person who voted Trump in 2016 is an evil racist, although the majority of them are.

There you have it... past that - there is no real discussion. Us vs. them (the evil racists). This is tribalism.

[gtn130]

No? I don't think every single person who voted Trump in 2016 is an evil racist, although the majority of them are.

There you have it... past that - there is no real discussion. Us vs. them (the evil racists). This is tribalism.

Is there a particular reason you are resolute in your belief that Republicans aren't racist?

[popper]

No? I don't think every single person who voted Trump in 2016 is an evil racist, although the majority of them are.

There you have it... past that - there is no real discussion. Us vs. them (the evil racists). This is tribalism.

Which is why I don't participate on this thread anymore. Impossible to have an intelligent discussion with people that believe you're an evil racist. Tribalism at its finest.

[dckingsfan]

...Dems lost because Hillary was a bad candidate...

that had no solid political message, that was backed by an incompetent, morally bankrupt DNC.

Oh, and she is an elitist that came out with the deplorable comment - and that buried her. And you would have the Ds run on that again, sigh.

[gtn130]

No? I don't think every single person who voted Trump in 2016 is an evil racist, although the majority of them are.

There you have it... past that - there is no real discussion. Us vs. them (the evil racists). This is tribalism.

Which is why I don't participate on this thread anymore. Impossible to have an intelligent discussion with people that believe you're an evil racist. Tribalism at its finest.

Snowflake retreating to his safe space! Sad!

[popper]

There you have it... past that - there is no real discussion. Us vs. them (the evil racists). This is tribalism.

Which is why I don't participate on this thread anymore. Impossible to have an intelligent discussion with people that believe you're an evil racist. Tribalism at its finest.

Snowflake retreating to his safe space! Sad!

Seven year participant that realizes there is no value in debate with the hopelessly and tribal ignorant.

[gtn130]

...Dems lost because Hillary was a bad candidate...

that had no solid political message, that was backed by an incompetent, morally bankrupt DNC.

Oh, and she is an elitist that came out with the deplorable comment - and that buried her. And you would have the Ds run on that again, sigh.

Huh? Hillary running again would be a disaster. If any replacement level Democrat ran vs Trump in 2016, they would have won. No idea why you think I'm defending the DNC here.

And I'm not really sure what your point is. You originally claimed, incorrectly, that Democrats flipped to Trump - now you agree that Trump won because Hillary was a weak candidate?

Obviously the solution is that Hillary simply shouldn't run. Absolutely no one in this thread has suggested Hillary should run again.

[gtn130]

Which is why I don't participate on this thread anymore. Impossible to have an intelligent discussion with people that believe you're an evil racist. Tribalism at its finest.

Snowflake retreating to his safe space! Sad!

Seven year participant that realizes there is no value in debate with the hopelessly and tribal ignorant.

Your contributions will be missed. Godspeed

[stilldropin20]

No? I don't think every single person who voted Trump in 2016 is an evil racist, although the majority of them are.

There you have it... past that - there is no real discussion. Us vs. them (the evil racists). This is tribalism.

dont tell me that you are just now catching on to their venomous outright lies? I kid. i know you have been paying attention.

But this is why i went full twitter on them. there is no talking to them. no negotiation. they lost the election. so now they are taking their ball and going home. kicking and screaming and crying whining. and crying. and moaning. and whining. and kickicg. and screaming. and moaning. and whining. every step of the way. but mostly just bold facing lying about anything and everything. making things up. everyone is a racist!!!

meanwhile,

Trump wont be this harsh but he is going end up with a compassionate daca bill. I can smell it in the air. But he is going to get his wall in the process. and an end to some/most chain migration. Given half of my family is from Mexico/Native North america, i fully support a wall, and an end to chain migration, as well strict voter ID laws(a simple current ID to vote). Continue to deport criminals. Illinois senator Dick Durban is in the White house right now talking DACA. Directly at Trumps side. Just spoke and Trump said, I agree with that.

Trump is going to get this done. and in 3 weeks or less!! Guarantee it!! DACA, end chain migration, Wall!!!!

Dis **** can govern da shxt outta da white house!!!!

This will put legal and current mexican americans and african american back to work!! And most importantly raise wages in that demographic!!

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[I_Like_Dirt]

There you have it... past that - there is no real discussion. Us vs. them (the evil racists). This is tribalism.

Here's the thing, I sort of agree with your take, but there's a catch. This whole evil racists thing is basically being co-opted for the purposes of creating tribalism. As the message that racism will no longer be tolerated gets pushed increasingly further (as it should), the reality that racism isn't actually a yes/no question becomes easier to exploit.

I mean, think of it logically here. The argument is that people make all sorts of (wrong) assumptions based on immediately identifiable traits, such as skin color, gender, etc. and that biases are born out even more through other means as social norms and levels of comfort tend to reinforce those existing biases. On one hand, you have a side that suggests that we really do need to look at the systemic discrimination and racism (or sexism or whatever) and on the other side we have a side that essentially shuts down whenever they're labeled intolerant in some way, shape or form, as though intolerance, be it racism or something else, is a yes/no question and clearly they fall into the no category.

In the end, you're right, it's tribalism, but the cause of that tribalism isn't quite from the place you imply, and the responsibility for the solution is much, much farther from your implications in your posts.

[stilldropin20]

No? I don't think every single person who voted Trump in 2016 is an evil racist, although the majority of them are.

There you have it... past that - there is no real discussion. Us vs. them (the evil racists). This is tribalism.

Which is why I don't participate on this thread anymore. Impossible to have an intelligent discussion with people that believe you're an evil racist. Tribalism at its finest.

bro, ignore that (guy with) clown thoughts and the 3-4 other clown(ish thinkers) in this thread with nothing but hatred in their hearts. Just ignore them. keep posting. keep putting your thoughts out here.