Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 4

[n4th4n4]

Gambo is right.

No he isn't. He is overreacting to a cupcake December schedule and career nights from two of our youngest players.

[LukasBMW]

Our team is finally playing well, playing hard, and moving the ball. The "everyone loves everyone" multi-level marketing/real estate scam seminar bullsht that Watson implemented seems to have carried over ONLY now coach Triano is holding the team responsible.

I'm not trading any of our young players for big ego/big contract vets, especially ones like Cousin who can walk in the offseason and have character problems.

1. Jackson/Bender/picks for Cousins/Kemba/Dragic/etc? Hell no!

2. Bender/Jackson/4 picks for KP or Myles Turner? Hell yes.

Scenario 1 could backfire.

Scenario 2 is the equivalent of trading green houses in for a hotel.

[bwgood77]

Our team is finally playing well, playing hard, and moving the ball. The "everyone loves everyone" multi-level marketing/real estate scam seminar bullsht that Watson implemented seems to have carried over ONLY now coach Triano is holding the team responsible.

I'm not trading any of our young players for big ego/big contract vets, especially ones like Cousin who can walk in the offseason and have character problems.

1. Jackson/Bender/picks for Cousins/Kemba/Dragic/etc? Hell no!

2. Bender/Jackson/4 picks for KP or Myles Turner? Hell yes.

Scenario 1 could backfire.

Scenario 2 is the equivalent of trading green houses in for a hotel.

You sure do like Myles Turner. You'd trade Bender, Jackson and 4 picks for Myles Turner?

[WeekapaugGroove]

The easy bandaid here is to make a deal for Tyreke Evans ... a second round pick or two... then make a decision between him and Jeremy Lin (or?) in the off season. I dont think we have much of a chance trying to find a PG in the draft, especially one we need to start/effectively contribute right away.

Evans would be a tremendous upgrade over TinyUlis and allow for a more 'Harden-ish' role from Booker. I dont think Caanon is our long term answer except for a bench role. I see Ulis in China the moment Booker inks up long term. In fact, I'd trade him now so it wont be McD who is the one to cut him. Send him to memphis with a couple 2s and get Tyreke. All I can think of when I watch Ulis is Mars Blackmon.

One issue with this is I think much like Phoenix did with Tucker last year Memphis is going to hold out until the very last second trying to get a 1st rounder for Tyreke. If it's an hour before the deadline and nothing materialized then they probably take what they can get.

Other than seeing first hand how he fits next to Booker there really isn't much of a reason to trade for Tyreke since he's an FA this offseason and as I've stated before I don't think the math works out to make a run at the playoffs this year so I would pretty much stay away from acquiring guys who only help this year.

Heck I'd rather just give Reed a test run next to Booker.

[LukasBMW]

Our team is finally playing well, playing hard, and moving the ball. The "everyone loves everyone" multi-level marketing/real estate scam seminar bullsht that Watson implemented seems to have carried over ONLY now coach Triano is holding the team responsible.

I'm not trading any of our young players for big ego/big contract vets, especially ones like Cousin who can walk in the offseason and have character problems.

1. Jackson/Bender/picks for Cousins/Kemba/Dragic/etc? Hell no!

2. Bender/Jackson/4 picks for KP or Myles Turner? Hell yes.

Scenario 1 could backfire.

Scenario 2 is the equivalent of trading green houses in for a hotel.

You sure do like Myles Turner. You'd trade Bender, Jackson and 4 picks for Myles Turner?

He's a shot blocking big with post moves and a 3 point shot. Plus he plays with intensity. He'd be a serious problem at the 5 alongside of Chriss or Bender.

I'd trade one of Chriss/Bender + Jackson + picks for him in a heartbeat.

Miami, Miami, Bucks, and a top 5 protected Suns pick would be OK with me.

But I bet Indiana still says "NO" to that.

[Stark]

Trading for a fringe all star player would be stupid now but i'd still consider options if i were the fo. So let's check our options?

Marc Gasol : Meh. Too old and i don't think he'd like to play here.

Whiteside: Solid player but his contract is huge, pass.

Deandre: Well...This might be interesting because his contract is for just two years and the last year has player option. I'd love a defensive 5 like him. If the price is not too high i'm okay with Deandre.

Kemba: NO. NO. NO. I love Kemba but he isn't the solution we need, he is just another Bledsoe, IT. As long as we have Booker and Warren + improvement of the rest of the roster we would be fine offensively we need players who knows how to play defence. (First, a coach who has defensive system ofc.)

My ideal solution for poing guard situation would be signing Avery Bradley this summer. Give the ball to Booker most of the time and let him crate like Harden but he can share the ball with Bradley too. I love Bradley and his defence first attitude , he has become a nice shooter over the years and he plays his role well in a system. So i'm saying no to Dragic,Kemba and Tyreke.

[bwgood77]

Our team is finally playing well, playing hard, and moving the ball. The "everyone loves everyone" multi-level marketing/real estate scam seminar bullsht that Watson implemented seems to have carried over ONLY now coach Triano is holding the team responsible.

I'm not trading any of our young players for big ego/big contract vets, especially ones like Cousin who can walk in the offseason and have character problems.

1. Jackson/Bender/picks for Cousins/Kemba/Dragic/etc? Hell no!

2. Bender/Jackson/4 picks for KP or Myles Turner? Hell yes.

Scenario 1 could backfire.

Scenario 2 is the equivalent of trading green houses in for a hotel.

You sure do like Myles Turner. You'd trade Bender, Jackson and 4 picks for Myles Turner?

He's a shot blocking big with post moves and a 3 point shot. Plus he plays with intensity. He'd be a serious problem at the 5 alongside of Chriss or Bender.

I'd trade one of Chriss/Bender + Jackson + picks for him in a heartbeat.

Miami, Miami, Bucks, and a top 5 protected Suns pick would be OK with me.

But I bet Indiana still says "NO" to that.

He shoots 33% from 3, isn't a particularly good rebounder and shoots less than 50% from the field. He is a pretty good shot blocker and I like him as a player but Bender is shooting far better from 3 this year and I think he could eventually be close to as good of a shot blocker and is probably a better perimeter defender.

But most of all, we may be able to get a C in the draft who has the potential to be better. I've always liked Myles Turner but that is a drastic overpay.

[bwgood77]

Trading for a fringe all star player would be stupid now but i'd still consider options if i were the fo. So let's check our options?

Marc Gasol : Meh. Too old and i don't think he'd like to play here.

Whiteside: Solid player but his contract is huge, pass.

Deandre: Well...This might be interesting because his contract is for just two years and the last year has player option. I'd love a defensive 5 like him. If the price is not too high i'm okay with Deandre.

Kemba: NO. NO. NO. I love Kemba but he isn't the solution we need, he is just another Bledsoe, IT. As long as we have Booker and Warren + improvement of the rest of the roster we would be fine offensively we need players who knows how to play defence. (First, a coach who has defensive system ofc.)

My ideal solution for poing guard situation would be signing Avery Bradley this summer. Give the ball to Booker most of the time and let him crate like Harden but he can share the ball with Bradley too. I love Bradley and his defence first attitude , he has become a nice shooter over the years and he plays his role well in a system. So i'm saying no to Dragic,Kemba and Tyreke.

I'd prefer him to the others too. I like Kemba, but with Bradley you get the defense, 3 pt shooting and he is a FA so it wouldn't cost us anything.

[jredsaz]

The easy bandaid here is to make a deal for Tyreke Evans ... a second round pick or two... then make a decision between him and Jeremy Lin (or?) in the off season. I dont think we have much of a chance trying to find a PG in the draft, especially one we need to start/effectively contribute right away.

Evans would be a tremendous upgrade over TinyUlis and allow for a more 'Harden-ish' role from Booker. I dont think Caanon is our long term answer except for a bench role. I see Ulis in China the moment Booker inks up long term. In fact, I'd trade him now so it wont be McD who is the one to cut him. Send him to memphis with a couple 2s and get Tyreke. All I can think of when I watch Ulis is Mars Blackmon.

Who do you move/cut in a deal for Tyreke?

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Trading for a fringe all star player would be stupid now but i'd still consider options if i were the fo. So let's check our options?

Marc Gasol : Meh. Too old and i don't think he'd like to play here.

Whiteside: Solid player but his contract is huge, pass.

Deandre: Well...This might be interesting because his contract is for just two years and the last year has player option. I'd love a defensive 5 like him. If the price is not too high i'm okay with Deandre.

Kemba: NO. NO. NO. I love Kemba but he isn't the solution we need, he is just another Bledsoe, IT. As long as we have Booker and Warren + improvement of the rest of the roster we would be fine offensively we need players who knows how to play defence. (First, a coach who has defensive system ofc.)

My ideal solution for poing guard situation would be signing Avery Bradley this summer. Give the ball to Booker most of the time and let him crate like Harden but he can share the ball with Bradley too. I love Bradley and his defence first attitude , he has become a nice shooter over the years and he plays his role well in a system. So i'm saying no to Dragic,Kemba and Tyreke.

I'd prefer him to the others too. I like Kemba, but with Bradley you get the defense, 3 pt shooting and he is a FA so it wouldn't cost us anything.

#metoo

[jredsaz]

Trading for a fringe all star player would be stupid now but i'd still consider options if i were the fo. So let's check our options?

Marc Gasol : Meh. Too old and i don't think he'd like to play here.

Whiteside: Solid player but his contract is huge, pass.

Deandre: Well...This might be interesting because his contract is for just two years and the last year has player option. I'd love a defensive 5 like him. If the price is not too high i'm okay with Deandre.

Kemba: NO. NO. NO. I love Kemba but he isn't the solution we need, he is just another Bledsoe, IT. As long as we have Booker and Warren + improvement of the rest of the roster we would be fine offensively we need players who knows how to play defence. (First, a coach who has defensive system ofc.)

My ideal solution for poing guard situation would be signing Avery Bradley this summer. Give the ball to Booker most of the time and let him crate like Harden but he can share the ball with Bradley too. I love Bradley and his defence first attitude , he has become a nice shooter over the years and he plays his role well in a system. So i'm saying no to Dragic,Kemba and Tyreke.

I'd prefer him to the others too. I like Kemba, but with Bradley you get the defense, 3 pt shooting and he is a FA so it wouldn't cost us anything.

I remember hearing that Avery was McDs guy at Boston. McD pushed hard for them to draft Avery and I would bet he is banking on that relationship and our cap space to convince him to move west. Feel like it depends on how the Pistons finish.

[King4Day]

Anyone interested in Mirotic? Bulls want a first for him.
He'd prob hog time from someone but he's good. Has 2 years left on a solid contract.

[bwgood77]

Anyone interested in Mirotic? Bulls want a first for him.
He'd prob hog time from someone but he's good. Has 2 years left on a solid contract.

I saw they were looking to trade him and thought "Not sure I want him if another rebuilding team, the one with the most cap space in the league, is trying to get rid of him." That and the fact that we have two young 3s and two young 4s.

[Walt_Uoob]

I'll have to pay more attention to Bradley next time I get the chance. His stats don't jump off the page but if he's a true game-changer defensively and a three-point specialist on offense I could see that working with Booker.

Is Bradley expected to draw a big contract? If we could get him for Warren-level money then he seems like a nice complementary piece, but if he's expecting $20m+ per year I'm not sure how you build a contender around that.

It would also be funny to see us go from three point guards to basically none, with three shooting guards (Bradley, Booker, Knight) instead.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

I'll have to pay more attention to Bradley next time I get the chance. His stats don't jump off the page but if he's a true game-changer defensively and a three-point specialist on offense I could see that working with Booker.

Is Bradley expected to draw a big contract? If we could get him for Warren-level money then he seems like a nice complementary piece, but if he's expecting $20m+ per year I'm not sure how you build a contender around that.

It would also be funny to see us go from three point guards to basically none, with three shooting guards (Bradley, Booker, Knight) instead.

I think the settlement over the alleged sexual assault is likely to dampen his value a bit (which is what my #metoo comment above was referring to).

[rajahell]

I am really on board with the Avery Bradley signing this summer. If we can pull that off, and get a guy like bamba in the draft (I’d be fine with moving another pick in order to go get him) then we are in a great position in my opinion. Point booker seems to be the way to go, and Avery is the type of defender we need next to him (plus he’s shooting 39% from 3.) if bender continues to grow I like that starting line up next year, plus we would have some expiring contracts to move in order to go get a big name next year.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

I am really on board with the Avery Bradley signing this summer. If we can pull that off, and get a guy like bamba in the draft (I’d be fine with moving another pick in order to go get him) then we are in a great position in my opinion. Point booker seems to be the way to go, and Avery is the type of defender we need next to him (plus he’s shooting 39% from 3.) if bender continues to grow I like that starting line up next year, plus we would have some expiring contracts to move in order to go get a big name next year.

Given the way we're shaping up, I think Bamba is starting to look like the best "fit." Obviously we'd have to trade up. I've said it before - I could see Memphis being down to trade one pick for a pile.

[Saberestar]

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[darealjuice]

Avery Bradley would be a really interesting signing if we wanted to commit to Booker being the primary ball handler. Advanced stats don't love him, but he can be low usage, is a solid 3-point shooter, and is one of the better perimeter defenders in the league, so he's a solid fit next to Booker. Booker would get have a lot more space and assists if he had a knock down 3 point shooter next to him instead of a non-shooter.

Our Free Agency is probably going to be shaped a lot by the draft though. If we get one of the centers in the draft we'll have to find some way to address point guard if we want to try being competitive next year. Point guards are pretty thin in free agency though, so I feel like we'd probably have to address that through trade if not in the draft. If we draft a point guard like Young or Sexton I have a hard time seeing us going after another point guard/making Book lead guard with how much playing time is for the taking at PG. In that case I'd assume we make it more of a priority to keep Len, draft a center with the Miami pick, and/or chase Boogie and other FAs.

[NavLDO]

I have a hard time considering TJ a #3 option on a contender. Not having a 3-ball really hurts. We already see it now with our lack of spacing when he's on the floor. We also see when his defender completely disrespects his shot and batters down closer to the hoop baiting him into shooting the 3. Perhaps if we had 35%+ 3PT shooters in at least 3 other positions on the floor with him at the same time his weakness can be mitigated but right now, we have some of the worst spacing because we don't shoot the 3 ball well and TJ having the 2nd highest USG% and not having a 3 ball is a big part of it. Josh Jackson shoots the 3 better than him right now and that's scary.

Maybe he's fine if we are OK with being just a fringe playoff team but if we wanted to get to the next level and for TJ to be a major part of that, I do believe he needs to shoot the 3 reliably. It might not be that evident now since we're not a good team and he's still putting up an efficient 20ppg but on the highest levels, his weakness will 100% be exploited.

All this and we haven't even talked about his total lack of a passing game. In 1283 minutes played this season, TJ has logged 57 assists. JJ has 12 less assists in over 400 less min played. Marquese Chriss who has ZERO playmaking responsibilities has 6 less assists in 400 less min played. His assist rate is almost identical to that of a notorious black hole and who many considered would never get a ring with his style of basketball and that's 33 year old Melo which is a career low for him.

Let me put it in another way, in the last 5 seasons, of the 12 players with USG% higher than .25% (suggesting they are a considerable part of a team's offense), an AST% less than .10% (suggesting they aren't good passers), virtually all of them were big men. Of the 4 wings, Klay, TJ, Nick Young, Barnes, only Klay played on a winning team.

The only reason TJ gets a pass is because he's young, we don't have many shooters and he's an efficient scorer. I'm not hating on TJ, I'm not saying he's a bad player and I'm not saying he can't be on a good team but as I said, it might be OK for now but if we want to be a better team collectively and if he wants to take his game to the next level, he can't JUST be an efficient scorer.

And I'm not necessarily at odds with you, but as I alluded, once Chriss/Bender become more consistent, we have PFs that shoot the 3 at a clip of 38% or higher; we have Booker that does as well; once we bring in a 3rd, be it Reed with Booker as the Combo, or some PG with Booker as the SG...whatever. That's 3 of 5 'shooters'. Using the 'traditional' model, most teams only have 2-3 3PT threats...some have 4...but it's certainly not a requirement.

Regarding his assists, he had 5 just 2 games ago...he had 4 back on 12/20...and is averaging 1.8 per game his past 10 games. Overall, his AP48 is 2.1. Porter's is 2.8. Wiggins is 2.3. Ariza is 2.2. Tobias Harris is 2.6. And Bojan Bogdanovich is 2.2. Not to mention Covington (2.8), Stan the Man (2.5), and MKG (2.2). So, rather than just looking at it in a vacuum against another stat of his, look at other starting SFs and their numbers, and you see the while Warren's number are less, we're talking, in many cases, just fractions less.

But the big piece here, is again, understanding that Warren is a different animal than any other SF out there; he's special in that regard. Rather than look at that as a problem that needs to be hidden, why not find a way to take advantage of the skillset so that we have a weapon that no one else has...an unconventional offense that will require extra attention to defend against.

But whatever, I'm not a coach, not a player...just a fan. What do I know? Maybe there's no way to make it work in it's current form...

My whole point is that TJ right now is a fine player but for us to take our game to the next level collectively, he needs to do more than just be an efficient 2PT scorer. We're going to struggle getting up to the upper echelon of the playoff brackets if our 2nd/3rd best scorer is a wing that can't shoot 3's or pass very well. It's just the way the NBA is today. You need to spread the floor for your star players to flourish and be most effective. If we want a great complementary scorer next to Booker, we need someone that can hit the 3 because Harden didn't become Harden and averaging double digit assists by playing next to guys who can't hit 3's. I want that complementary scorer to be Warren but he needs to have a reliable 3 ball if we are to be a contender.

Regarding the assists, the only 2 players who comes close to TJ in USG% is Wiggins and Harris. Neither guys are great passers but neither players a liability from the 3 either, in other words, they provide an outlet for passers. TJ doesn't pass much and he doesn't shoot the 3 ball. As I mentioned already, if we want TJ to be a 2nd option on a upper echelon playoff team, he needs to be able to pass and/or spread the floor for your #1 option.

And to say TJ is a 'different animal' means very little. He's different in that he's only very good at one thing. He's different in that he can't hit 3's like many of the top SF's. He's different in that he has a low assist rates compared to his high usage. I'm not saying he can't be on a good team but his weakness is very apparent already. When teams scout out team better and see what TJ can and can't do, it's going to be an issue for us.

Well, since I gave you 'my argument' opinion, I'm curious--no snarkiness, or attitude in this question at all--just pure curiosity. What do you think we should do during the off-season, presuming Warren does not start shooting the 3 better; I don't honestly think it's getting much better this season. Also presuming his assists hover around his current season average, as does his usage rate. Do think Warren would be amenable to a reduction in status, so long as maintains his minutes...say 28-30 per game or so? Or should McD shop him while he's 'hot' to a contender as a 6th-Manwho doesn't shoot 3s, or whatever he can market Warren as, in order to improve our pick status, obtain a pick, or package him with Monroe, maybe, and Dudley, for a young 'star in the making' and a bad contract?

I ask because if you do not see Warren as a 3rd piece on a contributor, and we want to contribute, that would mean we would 2 more contributors, and I don't think we can keep Warren, Chriss, JJ, and Bender and get two more contributors (assuming the other 3, since they are currently 'worse' than Warren, are not your idea of a contributor either? Maybe JJ improves, and one of Chriss and Bender to become the #2 and #3 guys..

I personally think we need a stud at PG, and then #s 2 & 3 can come from other positions. But maybe not? I guess I am just wondering what your ideas or ideal scenarios are to pair with Booker to become our 'Big 3', and, can Warren exist on this type of team in Phoenix if he isn't part of it (basically, he not being a starter...if we have a Big 3, and he's not one of the 3, yet he's a starter, then we have a Big 4 that no one recognizes as such, I guess, because he'll still be, at worst, an 18/5 guy).