Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIV

[nate33]

They should expand it to 3 rounds and remove the age restriction. However, NBA teams should have the right to send any young draftee to their G-League team, pay them $60,000 a year, and postpone the start of their rookie scale contract for up to 2 years as long as they're playing in the G-League.

Each year of NCAA experience would reduce the number of years a team could postpone the start of the rookie deal. So a player drafted after his freshman year could only be "stashed" in the G-League for 1 year before his rookie scale contract starts. A player drafted after his sophomore year could not be stashed at all and would begin his rookie scale contract immediately. Any player who is so good that a team wants to play them on their NBA team instead of the G-League team would be considered on their rookie scale contract if they played more than 200 NBA minutes.

The idea is to give young athletes who have no real intention of getting a college degree a pathway to the NBA, but also to ensure that going the college route doesn't put a player at a significant monetary disadvantage. It also adds young talent to the G-League farm system and gives fans a motivation to go watch G-League games. Finally, the really good players capable of making an NBA team would still get right into the rookie scale contracts and make big money immediately.

[queridiculo]

Mirotic is intriguing but I don't want Lopez and him. That would make us a much slower team. This is sacrilege to say but I'd rather have Ian. Not his contract but his defensive talent. Lopez is a million times better of an offensive player but his rebounds have come way down to under 5.0 per game and he was putting up great numbers on bad teams. Now he's not even putting up great offensive numbers. I'd rather have at least one strong defensive center than two offensive guys. Also Ian would be much better if we stopped throwing him the ball at the foul line (Sato) and only give it to him if he's under the basket and open.

Mahinmi's activity is confused with effectiveness if you ask me, any positive on the defensive end is negated by his inability to defend without fouling and combined with his penchant for turnovers he's a net negative pretty much every time he steps out on the court.

Lopez would be a definitive upgrade of Mahinmi. Yeah, he's not swift, but when you watch him play you can tell that he's learned when to move and when to just hold his ground and he is an effective defender as a result more often that not.

Just by virtue of his length he's a deterrent inside and any deficiencies he has on the defensive end he more than makes up for on the offensive end where he extends possession with his rebounding, manages to get involved as a distributor and is an legit scoring threat on the elbow.

If the Wizards could swap Mahinmi for Lopez they'd be a better team.

[queridiculo]

Two moves that accomplish Grunfeld's yearly quest for a jolt, makes his work easier in the offseason and gets Washington out of paying luxury tax this year, while giving them more flexibility next.

Was: Mahinmi, Smith, 2019 1st top 20 protected or unconditional 2020 1st
Chi: Lopez

Was: Meeks, 2019 2nd
Mem: Evans

[trast66]

Two moves that accomplish Grunfeld's yearly quest for a jolt, makes his work easier in the offseason and gets Washington out of paying luxury tax this year, while giving them more flexibility next.

Was: Mahinmi, Smith, 2019 1st top 20 protected or unconditional 2020 1st
Chi: Lopez

Was: Meeks, 2019 2nd
Mem: Evans

Both very feasible, though you know Ernie would cave and send a first rounder to Memphis.

I have no idea on Meeks league value, would he opt out of player option next year? Assume he opts in.

[80sballboy]

Mirotic is intriguing but I don't want Lopez and him. That would make us a much slower team. This is sacrilege to say but I'd rather have Ian. Not his contract but his defensive talent. Lopez is a million times better of an offensive player but his rebounds have come way down to under 5.0 per game and he was putting up great numbers on bad teams. Now he's not even putting up great offensive numbers. I'd rather have at least one strong defensive center than two offensive guys. Also Ian would be much better if we stopped throwing him the ball at the foul line (Sato) and only give it to him if he's under the basket and open.

Mahinmi's activity is confused with effectiveness if you ask me, any positive on the defensive end is negated by his inability to defend without fouling and combined with his penchant for turnovers he's a net negative pretty much every time he steps out on the court.

Lopez would be a definitive upgrade of Mahinmi. Yeah, he's not swift, but when you watch him play you can tell that he's learned when to move and when to just hold his ground and he is an effective defender as a result more often that not.

Just by virtue of his length he's a deterrent inside and any deficiencies he has on the defensive end he more than makes up for on the offensive end where he extends possession with his rebounding, manages to get involved as a distributor and is an legit scoring threat on the elbow.

If the Wizards could swap Mahinmi for Lopez they'd be a better team.

Better team on the offensive end yes. Not on the boards or defense. I wouldn't mind Lopez but I don't want Mirotic and Lopez to slow us the eff down. This is all fantasy. Nobody is taking Mahinmi's contract unless you take another sh-tty contract.

[bsilver]

Two moves that accomplish Grunfeld's yearly quest for a jolt, makes his work easier in the offseason and gets Washington out of paying luxury tax this year, while giving them more flexibility next.

Was: Mahinmi, Smith, 2019 1st top 20 protected or unconditional 2020 1st
Chi: Lopez

Was: Meeks, 2019 2nd
Mem: Evans

It would be great to have Evans for this years's playoffs. Since he'll be getting a big payday next year, he'll be going somewhere other than here or Memphis next year. It makes sense for Memphis to trade him for a future asset at the deadline. They definitely wouldn't want Meeks because he'll opt in next year. They'll probably get a better offer from a team that has the money to sign him next year.

[payitforward]

I'm traveling & haven't had the chance to check in to the Board since Friday. I'll catch up on some things here.

Nance can start in this league but he would require a stretch 5. He's got not game outside of 3 feet, but he's a good defender and plays extremely hard.

Wow. You don't judge a player based on what he can't do. You do so based on what he can do. I like what Ruz wrote about him a month or so ago. He's "one of the best two-way forwards in the NBA." Nance was the single biggest bargain in the '15 draft -- yes, bigger than Oubre.

I wonder if Kieff for Mirotic straight up might be a good deal.

It would, & especially based on how Mirotic is playing this season. But Chicago would never do that deal. & anyway, we can't do it either -- adds $4.5m to our salary load this year.

I really like this core, and while EG has squandered many opportunities... the FO/scouting in general has been really good for us. Sato, Oubre, Sheldon Mac, and Devin Robinson all look like great/solid picks and UDFA's for where we got them...

What? While I'm glad Sato has improved so much, picking him & waiting 4 years for him even to join the team when Draymond Green, Jae Crowder, Will Barton & Khris Middleton were all available, are all better players, & were all in the league & benefiting their teams for 3 years while Sato played in Europe -- that can't be called a "great/solid pick." Oh, & I forgot to mention your guy Mike Scott! -- & several others who've delivered more value so far than Sato.

As well, to put Devin Robinson among "great/solid" anything at this point is wishful thinking.

I applauded & still applaud the trade up for Oubre, but in fact there were outstanding players available at our original spot had we not made the trade.

I see no evidence whatsoever that our scouting has been particularly good -- have we changed personnel a lot since we grabbed Vesely & Singleton? Have we gotten better at assessing players since we waived Shelvin Mack & let Booker walk while giving Seraphim a qualifying offer? How about when we took some cash instead of Jordan Clarkson? Good scouting? When we picked GRIII? When we gave away a pick that would have gotten us Kyle O'Quinn?

So, no, I sure don't...

...think we can all agree that our scouting has actually been quite good over the last 3-4 years...

Nor do I, like you,...

...have faith that whatever picks we actually keep will be used correctly in getting solid players....

[payitforward]

...I agree that 2nds are valuable.. but it falls off a cliff and fast. Pick 37, or 41... sure, but once you hit near/at 50, I would much rather sell it for a couple mil and pick from UDFA. ...

Right, otherwise you might wind up with E'Twaun Moore or Isaiah Thomas or Darius Miller or Kyle O'Quinn or Lavoy Allen or De'Andre Liggins or Raul Neto or James Ennis or Dwight Powell or... -- that's only 3 drafts, btw.

Worse yet, using those late R2 picks, you might wind up with Patty Mills or Danny Green or Manu Ginobili or Joffrey Lauvergne or Davis Bertans or Bryn Forbes or Brandon Paul or Dejounte Murray. You know what team all those guys are on....

How long has it been -- not that long -- since the last post on this board about how the last 3d of R1 was guys with "marginal talent?" Or references to players with "Round 2 talent?"

All of this is myth. & yet, surely, in our era of incredible scouting, no one would trade away top 12 picks -- you might miss a chance at Mario Hezonja, Jahlil Okafor, Emmanuel Mudiay, D'Angelo Russell, Derrick Williams, Jan Vesely, Brandon Knight, Jimmer Fredette, Thomas Robinson, Kendall Marshall, Meyers Leonard, Anthony Bennett, Ben McLemore or Trey Burke. That's also from 3 drafts.

I also think being in our situation instead of being a team like Philly does us good. Why would a UDFA sign with Philly over us knowing how many young players they have on contract and rights to Euros.
With us its "Hey, we will be in the 2nd round of the playoffs and contending... but we have 2-3 open spots where you can make it... see Sheldon Mac and now Devin Robinson."

So our FO has managed to gain us an advantage over Philly in signing UDFAs? That's their big accomplishment? Thing is... can you provide an example?

Are we back to achievements like signing Devin Robinson to a 2-way contract?

[payitforward]

Pcbothwel, I do not believe the talent drops off after the mid-30s.

There are so many guaranteed contracts and so few roster spots that the likelihood of a person being able to make the team drops off after the mid thirties....

This is exactly correct.

Not only doesn't talent drop off, but in fact past the first few picks there is no statistically significant correlation between where a guy was picked & how good he is in the NBA. The subject has been studied; that's the conclusion.

[payitforward]

...Maybe I should clarify my point. The talent doesnt necessarily drop off, but the advantage of pick 40 over pick 50 goes beyond just the ten players in between. You have to factor how close you are to the end of the draft and every team starts from Zero again and have free reign to sign any UDFA.
I.E. Look at the Bucks and LAC situation this last draft. Bucks sitting at pick 48 have a number of players in the same tier with different pros and cons. I could simply take one of the players within that tier, or I take the LAC offer of 2.5M for the pick and hope one of those players fall past 60 to UDFA. If Im not a GM for a rich franchise or their isnt a clear cut player I want... I definitely sell the pick and put 2.5M in my owners pocket for a rainy day...

This is good common sense, but it leaves out one key point -- the cap & the tax.

B/c of the cap/tax provisions, you do your owner a bigger favor when you buy R2 picks than when you sell them. R2 picks make trivial $. R2 player contracts always give all the contractual advantages to the team -- i.e. it's easy to dump the player & easy to control him over several long years so that if he works out well you can extend him early (his low salary means he has less leverage in negotiation) or use him as a valuable asset to trade. R2 picks, including late ones, are cheap insurance.

That's why smart franchises like OKC & GS buy R2 picks -- including late ones (OKC bought #56 for cash in 2016) -- rather than selling them.

Plus, of course, even if what you hope comes true, & one of the guys you wanted at #48 slips past #60, some other team may sign him instead of you. That's why a draft pick is an asset worth $$ in the first place!

Now, of course, if you have 3 guys slotted at the same level, & you have the #59 pick, & you are 100% certain you'll get the one who drops below #60 (which you can't be of course), why then... any cash offer for your #59 is a good one.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Pcbothwel, I do not believe the talent drops off after the mid-30s.

There are so many guaranteed contracts and so few roster spots that the likelihood of a person being able to make the team drops off after the mid thirties....

This is exactly correct.

Not only doesn't talent drop off, but in fact past the first few picks there is no statistically significant correlation between where a guy was picked & how good he is in the NBA. The subject has been studied; that's the conclusion.

Yeah for the most part if you go to Duke you'll get drafted. If you go to Kansas you'll get drafted. If you go to Kentucky you'll get drafted. If you really really tall and have a pulse with athleticism; and if you're at one of those schools you go in the lottery. (Willie cauley-stein for example).

I just assumed have Robert Carter Jr on my team. I digress....

Thanks payitforward for providing that factoid. I always suspected that statistically proven stuff that you just quoted...

Sent from my Moto G (4) using RealGM mobile app

[pcbothwel]

Quick salary dump:
Smith, CMC, 2018 1st to Mavs for 2018 2nd (#36) and 2019 2nd
- This gets us under the Lux tax this year while still getting us two early 2nds.

If we dont want to drop that far, then we could bring in a 3rd team like Atlanta. They have picks 24, 28, and 31. We could trade down from 22 and get 28 and 31...

So CMC and 22 to Atlanta for Tyler Dorsey, 28, and 31
- This saves us over 600k and puts us now at only 5.2M over the Lux tax (Smiths Salary)

We then follow that up with trading 28 and Smith to a team under the cap (Pacers, Bulls, Mavs, or Suns) for a mid to late 2nd.

We end up under the Lux tax and with:
Tyler Dorsey, #31, #52, and another mid-late 2nd

[Rafael122]

Pretty much the only way to get Mirotic is to trade Morris + Smith (remember he has a player opt next season) for Mirotic. IDK if the Wiz still have to include a pick in that deal, but trading Morris is so risky, just because he's developed chemistry with the rest of the team.

[deneem4]

Pretty much the only way to get Mirotic is to trade Morris + Smith (remember he has a player opt next season) for Mirotic. IDK if the Wiz still have to include a pick in that deal, but trading Morris is so risky, just because he's developed chemistry with the rest of the team.

Then we would have no one to defend bigger forwards...

[deneem4]

We should go after la bench mob...

Find a team with expirings that would take gortat and a 1st
send those expirings to la...
Go in the playoffs with depth...
Worry bout the offseason in the offseason

[payitforward]

Quick salary dump:
Smith, CMC, 2018 1st to Mavs for 2018 2nd (#36) and 2019 2nd
- This gets us under the Lux tax this year while still getting us two early 2nds.

If we dont want to drop that far, then we could bring in a 3rd team like Atlanta. They have picks 24, 28, and 31. We could trade down from 22 and get 28 and 31...

So CMC and 22 to Atlanta for Tyler Dorsey, 28, and 31
- This saves us over 600k and puts us now at only 5.2M over the Lux tax (Smiths Salary)

We then follow that up with trading 28 and Smith to a team under the cap (Pacers, Bulls, Mavs, or Suns) for a mid to late 2nd.

We end up under the Lux tax and with:
Tyler Dorsey, #31, #52, and another mid-late 2nd

I don't know if the exact specifics here would work, but for sure this is just the kind of creative thinking we need. Great stuff, pcbothwei!

[long suffrin' boulez fan]

Quick salary dump:
Smith, CMC, 2018 1st to Mavs for 2018 2nd (#36) and 2019 2nd
- This gets us under the Lux tax this year while still getting us two early 2nds.

If we dont want to drop that far, then we could bring in a 3rd team like Atlanta. They have picks 24, 28, and 31. We could trade down from 22 and get 28 and 31...

So CMC and 22 to Atlanta for Tyler Dorsey, 28, and 31
- This saves us over 600k and puts us now at only 5.2M over the Lux tax (Smiths Salary)

We then follow that up with trading 28 and Smith to a team under the cap (Pacers, Bulls, Mavs, or Suns) for a mid to late 2nd.

We end up under the Lux tax and with:
Tyler Dorsey, #31, #52, and another mid-late 2nd

All of whom we would flip for cash considerations.

So, CMC and a first for Tyler Dorsey. We’d then have cap room to fill out the roster with the exoskeleton of Lance Stephenson.

Cynical, I know. But we are talking about the ‘stache.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

They should expand it to 3 rounds and remove the age restriction. However, NBA teams should have the right to send any young draftee to their G-League team, pay them $60,000 a year, and postpone the start of their rookie scale contract for up to 2 years as long as they're playing in the G-League.

Each year of NCAA experience would reduce the number of years a team could postpone the start of the rookie deal. So a player drafted after his freshman year could only be "stashed" in the G-League for 1 year before his rookie scale contract starts. A player drafted after his sophomore year could not be stashed at all and would begin his rookie scale contract immediately. Any player who is so good that a team wants to play them on their NBA team instead of the G-League team would be considered on their rookie scale contract if they played more than 200 NBA minutes.

The idea is to give young athletes who have no real intention of getting a college degree a pathway to the NBA, but also to ensure that going the college route doesn't put a player at a significant monetary disadvantage. It also adds young talent to the G-League farm system and gives fans a motivation to go watch G-League games. Finally, the really good players capable of making an NBA team would still get right into the rookie scale contracts and make big money immediately.

Very well-thought, nate.

I like the way MLB does it. They draft guys out of HS but also, have provisions for NCAA players. Some guys go to the minors, whether A, AA, etc. Others get called up to the bigs. The college game is good and competitive to the point that players can improve while they are NCAA student athletes. Everybody wins.

[Dark Faze]

The Heat looking to make some deals...

[pcbothwel]

The Heat looking to make some deals...

Lol. Good for them, but they have nothing of value outside of Bam. Any player worth playing on their team (Dragic, Richardson, KO, Johnson, and Whiteside) Are all overpaid and/or old.