Team Canada Basketball Thread

[RaptorsLife]

I was watching nuggets warriors honestly Jamal Murray defense is not bad at all

he's gonna be nice in 2 years

[mojo13]

PS - He had a very good game tonight, helping to lead the Wolves with 25 points and +35 (I know, I know) in a blowout of the Cavs.

Wiggins, Muray and Lyles all had 20+ games last night. For the last two, it's becoming almost a routine, so no one seems to get excited anymore. Amazing how quickly you get used to good things.

Especially Lyles, who's averaging 20 and 8 in January (still a small sample size) and showing no signs of slowing down after his excellent December. People in the Nuggets must be starting to question the decision to give Milsap that 3-year 90mil contract in the summer. Lyles seems to give a similar production (minus the passing for now) in fewer minutes, but he's getting only 9mil for three years...

9 mill over the next three years? Damn.. that is outstanding value if he can continue to play well. Nuggets have been a fun team to watch this year with Murray/Lyle's.

Only two years right? Third year (19/20) would be Qualifying offer and you'd think they extend him before that.

Anyways - I am holding on with baited breath on Lyles due to the Millsap situation. You'd have to think Millsap starts when he comes back, but it seems Lyles should be the first big off the bench.

Yes...I'd certainly say they are regretting the Millsap signing, but it is only a 2 yr / 60 mil. commitment. The third year is a club option and coincides with Trey's Qualifying year (19/20). If that was today, they certainly extend Trey and not option Millsap.

Here are Denver's contracts:
http://www.spotrac.com/nba/denver-nuggets/contracts/
Click the names for details.





And here is the round up of Canadian playing pro last week:
http://www.usbasket.com/Canada/news/518714/Andrew-Nicholson's-39-points-make-him-top-Canadian-player-abroad-of-the-week

I'd sure love me some Andrew Nicholson in the February WC Qualifier games. He'd fill a gaping offensive hole. He is dropping over two 3s a game on 41% 3pt shooting. He'd be an automatic 20pts a game.
Bennett has been bad since he joined the Maine Red Claws - I do not think we should expect much out of him in Feb and really need some more help upfront. Ejim could still be in play. Or just go with Trasolini who can provide some offense.

Also looks like the Knicks might sign Trey Burke who has been tearing up the G. Which would give XRM more room to maneuver and develop. XRM continues to play well in the G.

Chris Boucher is still inactive with Santa Cruz - still no idea when he starts playing (but not available to Team Canada anyways this Feb.)

Also did anyone mention Khem Birch was extended by the Magic for the rest of the season? He had a partial guarantee and if kept after the 6th he would be guaranteed the rest of the season. He has been playing great in the G - just not real room for him with the Magic (yet) with Vuc, Biyombo and Speights all still in his way. His time will come I think.

[aminiaturebuddha]

Yes...I'd certainly say they are regretting the Millsap signing, but it is only a 2 yr / 60 mil. commitment. The third year is a club option and coincides with Trey's Qualifying year (19/20). If that was today, they certainly extend Trey and not option Millsap.

Here are Denver's contracts:
http://www.spotrac.com/nba/denver-nuggets/contracts/
Click the names for details.

The recent play of Lyles also has to make Denver feel a little better about that trade with Utah at draft time, since Donovan Mitchell has been tearing it up all year and is probably neck-and-neck with Ben Simmons in the Rookie of the Year race.

[TooBad]

I was watching nuggets warriors honestly Jamal Murray defense is not bad at all

he's gonna be nice in 2 years

Yea he actually a good defender when he wants to be. He takes plays off sometime though because I think he gets worn out from running around so much on offense.

[Hair Canada]

Some recent updates to rankings and predictions for the classes of 2017-2018:

Even after moving Shai GA to the 2018 draft (projected #11), DraftNet currently predicts 5 Canadians in the first round of the 2019 draft: Barrett (#1), Nickeil AW (#8), Brissett (#11), Simi (#15), and Wigginton (#25). Frankly, I think that's a bit of an over-hype for most (Brissett a lottery pick?), maybe with the exception of Simi. But nice to see them getting some love and attention. Jackson is now projected at the end of the second round, but I think much will be determined by how he comes back from the injury next year.

Rivals rankings for the class of 2018 seem more realistic (to me at least). They have 5 Canadians in their top-150, but they only rank those playing in the US. Barrett (1), Simi (7), and Nembhart (16) are all considered 5 stars, but now they also say Brezdaikas is, which means if he were ranked he would be a top-30 player (maybe higher). Dort is the other player not ranked. They give him 4 stars, but I would give him 5 and rank him as a top-30 talent. The two others are Llewellyn (90), who I would also put higher, and Kirkwood (126).

Altogether, a really good field of potential for these two classes, especially since they don't even mention Akot in these rankings, but I still have much faith that he'll bounce back.

[TooBad]

Wiggins, Muray and Lyles all had 20+ games last night. For the last two, it's becoming almost a routine, so no one seems to get excited anymore. Amazing how quickly you get used to good things.

Especially Lyles, who's averaging 20 and 8 in January (still a small sample size) and showing no signs of slowing down after his excellent December. People in the Nuggets must be starting to question the decision to give Milsap that 3-year 90mil contract in the summer. Lyles seems to give a similar production (minus the passing for now) in fewer minutes, but he's getting only 9mil for three years...

9 mill over the next three years? Damn.. that is outstanding value if he can continue to play well. Nuggets have been a fun team to watch this year with Murray/Lyle's.

Only two years right? Third year (19/20) would be Qualifying offer and you'd think they extend him before that.

Anyways - I am holding on with baited breath on Lyles due to the Millsap situation. You'd have to think Millsap starts when he comes back, but it seems Lyles should be the first big off the bench.

Yes...I'd certainly say they are regretting the Millsap signing, but it is only a 2 yr / 60 mil. commitment. The third year is a club option and coincides with Trey's Qualifying year (19/20). If that was today, they certainly extend Trey and not option Millsap.

Here are Denver's contracts:
http://www.spotrac.com/nba/denver-nuggets/contracts/
Click the names for details.





And here is the round up of Canadian playing pro last week:
http://www.usbasket.com/Canada/news/518714/Andrew-Nicholson's-39-points-make-him-top-Canadian-player-abroad-of-the-week

I'd sure love me some Andrew Nicholson in the February WC Qualifier games. He'd fill a gaping offensive hole. He is dropping over two 3s a game on 41% 3pt shooting. He'd be an automatic 20pts a game.
Bennett has been bad since he joined the Maine Red Claws - I do not think we should expect much out of him in Feb and really need some more help upfront. Ejim could still be in play. Or just go with Trasolini who can provide some offense.

Also looks like the Knicks might sign Trey Burke who has been tearing up the G. Which would give XRM more room to maneuver and develop. XRM continues to play well in the G.

Chris Boucher is still inactive with Santa Cruz - still no idea when he starts playing (but not available to Team Canada anyways this Feb.)

Also did anyone mention Khem Birch was extended by the Magic for the rest of the season? He had a partial guarantee and if kept after the 6th he would be guaranteed the rest of the season. He has been playing great in the G - just not real room for him with the Magic (yet) with Vuc, Biyombo and Speights all still in his way. His time will come I think.

Yeah, I was arguing Millsap vs Lyles over on the Nuggets forum and believe it or not I suggested that they should trade Millsap and whatever for Wiggins to fill their SF spot (me the Wiggins hater). Anyways, I thought I should post Lyles stats here so you can see how close this guy is to being an allstar since he has been getting minutes (December).


Since December
Lyles 26.12 mp 16 pts 6.9 reb 1.3 ast 50.30 3p% 55.20 fg% 66.10 TS% 10.7 FGA 127 ORTG 108 DRTG

Lyles Season 20.2 PER 2.5 WS .05 VORP

Defense

Opponents shoots 8.0% less than average when guarded by Lyles (since December)

http://stats.nba.com/player/1626168/defense-dash/?Season=2017-18&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&DateTo=01%2F10%2F2018&DateFrom=12%2F01%2F2017

[mojo13]

A few posts back people were discussing about who were currently the best Canadian bball players and it got me thinking about doing a “Top 25 Canadian Power Ranking” for the hell of it. Who doesn’t like hot take Power Rankings from some rando on a forum?

I am curious if we are generally on the same page or have serious disagreement.

This is merely my humble opinion but I have a few parameters running through my head used for this subjective ranking. This my current, right now ranking of the best Canadian players. Team fit, chemistry, future potential is all out the door. This is also a blend of NBA and FIBA competency which is admittedly a nefarious qualifier and even completely theoretical is some cases. We can obviously shift guys around somewhat if we are talking just FIBA or NBA. Blending the two means a guy like Olynyk gets a little air in his tires and a guy like Thompson gets a slight downgrade. And by no means if I was selecting a hypothetical Team Canada would the Top 12 guys certainly be the best team as you’d need to look at fit, rolls, experience, chemistry when crafting a team. This is also pro players only – no NCAA players, no highschoolers (aka Barrett) as it is just too hard to compare those kids at this point in time to pros and their development is so quick.

So here goes….

Top 25 Power Rankings – Canadian Professionals

1. Andrew Wiggins – I still think he is Canada’s best player, although maybe for not much longer. Still sky high potential but we all know the questions about him (no need to rehash yet again). Also questionable FIBA fit, but even at 20 was out best player at the 2015 FIBA Americas.
2. Jamal Murray – Rising fast as Canada’s top talent. Could be #1 by the end of the season. Starting SG (not PG) on my current Canadian Dream Team.
3. Kelly Olynyk – finally gelling with teammates in Miami, seems to be expanding his game. Strong FIBA fit. Pretty darn close between the top three in my mind right now. KO is might be my #1 in a FIBA only list.
4. Cory Joseph – steady, mature, nothing too flashy, solid all around, proven FIBA player, leader. Still the best starting PG for Canada IMO.
5. Trey Lyles – rising the ranks very quickly. He needs to maintain this recent level of high performance over a longer period to move him up. Could be a great FIBA fit, but unproven.
6. Dwight Powell – having a great (mini-breakout) season, finally figuring out his role in the NBA. Solid but limited, high efficiency, low usage NBA/FIBA role player.
7. Tristan Thompson – Falling down the ranks in both NBA and FIBA. Very limited role player, but very valuable in the right line-up with the right team mates (Needs to be paired with a Nicholson, Olynyk, Lyles, Wiltjer type)
8. Dillon Brooks – Surprised everyone by becoming a starter in Memphis. Boatload of intangibles, good two way game (an anti-Stauskas to me right now).
9. Andrew Nicholson – Still a very good player, but couldn’t find the right roll in the NBA. A very potent offensive player in FIBA. Always a pretty bad defender though.
10. Kevin Pangos – quickly becoming one of the best PGs in Europe. Physical measurements will likely keep him out of the NBA, but I’m convinced he is better than many NBA players who are in the league with better physical profiles and upside potential. Looks like a great FIBA fit.
11. Nik Stauskas – Time is running out on Nik as well, but could easily still revitalize himself in the NBA. I don’t see a mentally strong player who I’d want in pressure situations (unlike Pangos) which depresses his ranking.
12. Tyler Ennis – Borderline NBA player who could stick around in the league for years or be waived this season. Maybe on par with Pangos overall but a much worse outside shooter (he is back to horrible from 3 again this year). The lack of shooting is especially bad for FIBA and he is not getting the FIBA pressure/experience like Pangos.
13. Khem Birch – Not too far off from Tristan Thompson. Very similar player, maybe a better rim protector, but worse defender overall, over limited offensively. I never ever want to see TT and Khem on the floor together (nor either with Powell for that matter).
14. Aaron Doornekmap – underrated 3&D role player. Improved his game significantly over the last three years. Many people here hate the guy, but he has gotten much better and has that gritty, low usage, high efficiency glue guy game that teams need.
15. Melvin Ejim – solid undersized PF, gritty do-everything player with decent but not great 3 pointer. Seemed to me he was our 2nd best player in the 2016 Olympic Qualifiers
16. Kyle Wiltjer – The Bizzarro World version of Khem Birch? Starting to settle in and produce for Olympiacos. He could be a very potent FIBA role player, but lacks the physical profile for the NBA.
17. Dylan Ennis – excellent early season showing in the Adriatic league has drawn him into the EuroLeague where has been playing well.
18. Phil Scrubb – Starring in the German BBL (which I am not totally sure what that really means). He should move up to a better league next year and we’ll get a better feel for how good he is.
19. Dyshawn Pierre - solid undersized PF, gritty do-everything player with decent but not great 3 pointer. I see allot of Melvin Ejim in Pierre.
20. Xavier Rathan Maynes – young and on the rise. Not sure I see a NBA player in him, but I think he could play in the highest European leagues. Great size for FIBA.
21. Olivier Hanlan – mature enough now that we can see he is a solid, if unspectacular guard. Not sure he is a good FIBA fit. Never quite know if he is better as a SG or PG.
22. Anthony Bennett – I’m just seeing less and less with Bennett each game and he free falling down this list.
23. Marc Trasolini – I think he is quite under rated. Has performed well in solid European leagues. Way better stats (especially efficiency) than Sacre this year in Japan. Probably better than Bennett?
24. Robert Sacre – Not sure how he can be a 7 footer in Japan shooting well below 50%. Never been sure how he played so many years in the NBA.
25. Naz Mitrou-Long - still very unproven. Has played fairly well in the G-League but still fairly inefficient.

Honorable Mentions –
Brady Heslip
Chris Boucher
Jordan Bachynski
Andy Rautins
Thomas Scrubb
Justin Edwards


Any major disagreements? Or omissions? It is pretty subjective list all around, but especially in the 15-25 range. I am trying to keep up to speed on all these guys but you better believe I am not regularly watching G-League games or Italian Series-A league games. But I am trying to watch boxscores and keep up to date on how they guys are preforming, improving and what people are saying about them. Might be worth updating this list every few months with risers and fallers...

[Mirotic12]

A few posts back people were discussing about who were currently the best Canadian bball players and it got me thinking about doing a “Top 25 Canadian Power Ranking” for the hell of it. Who doesn’t like hot take Power Rankings from some rando on a forum?

I am curious if we are generally on the same page or have serious disagreement.

This is merely my humble opinion but I have a few parameters running through my head used for this subjective ranking. This my current, right now ranking of the best Canadian players. Team fit, chemistry, future potential is all out the door. This is also a blend of NBA and FIBA competency which is admittedly a nefarious qualifier and even completely theoretical is some cases. We can obviously shift guys around somewhat if we are talking just FIBA or NBA. Blending the two means a guy like Olynyk gets a little air in his tires and a guy like Thompson gets a slight downgrade. And by no means if I was selecting a hypothetical Team Canada would the Top 12 guys certainly be the best team as you’d need to look at fit, rolls, experience, chemistry when crafting a team. This is also pro players only – no NCAA players, no highschoolers (aka Barrett) as it is just too hard to compare those kids at this point in time to pros and their development is so quick.

So here goes….

Top 25 Power Rankings – Canadian Professionals

1. Andrew Wiggins – I still think he is Canada’s best player, although maybe for not much longer. Still sky high potential but we all know the questions about him (no need to rehash yet again). Also questionable FIBA fit, but even at 20 was out best player at the 2015 FIBA Americas.
2. Jamal Murray – Rising fast as Canada’s top talent. Could be #1 by the end of the season. Starting SG (not PG) on my current Canadian Dream Team.
3. Kelly Olynyk – finally gelling with teammates in Miami, seems to be expanding his game. Strong FIBA fit. Pretty darn close between the top three in my mind right now. KO is might be my #1 in a FIBA only list.
4. Cory Joseph – steady, mature, nothing too flashy, solid all around, proven FIBA player, leader. Still the best starting PG for Canada IMO.
5. Trey Lyles – rising the ranks very quickly. He needs to maintain this recent level of high performance over a longer period to move him up. Could be a great FIBA fit, but unproven.
6. Dwight Powell – having a great (mini-breakout) season, finally figuring out his role in the NBA. Solid but limited, high efficiency, low usage NBA/FIBA role player.
7. Tristan Thompson – Falling down the ranks in both NBA and FIBA. Very limited role player, but very valuable in the right line-up with the right team mates (Needs to be paired with a Nicholson, Olynyk, Lyles, Wiltjer type)
8. Dillon Brooks – Surprised everyone by becoming a starter in Memphis. Boatload of intangibles, good two way game (an anti-Stauskas to me right now).
9. Andrew Nicholson – Still a very good player, but couldn’t find the right roll in the NBA. A very potent offensive player in FIBA. Always a pretty bad defender though.
10. Kevin Pangos – quickly becoming one of the best PGs in Europe. Physical measurements will likely keep him out of the NBA, but I’m convinced he is better than many NBA players who are in the league with better physical profiles and upside potential. Looks like a great FIBA fit.
11. Nik Stauskas – Time is running out on Nik as well, but could easily still revitalize himself in the NBA. I don’t see a mentally strong player who I’d want in pressure situations (unlike Pangos) which depresses his ranking.
12. Tyler Ennis – Borderline NBA player who could stick around in the league for years or be waived this season. Maybe on par with Pangos overall but a much worse outside shooter (he is back to horrible from 3 again this year). The lack of shooting is especially bad for FIBA and he is not getting the FIBA pressure/experience like Pangos.
13. Khem Birch – Not too far off from Tristan Thompson. Very similar player, maybe a better rim protector, but worse defender overall, over limited offensively. I never ever want to see TT and Khem on the floor together (nor either with Powell for that matter).
14. Aaron Doornekmap – underrated 3&D role player. Improved his game significantly over the last three years. Many people here hate the guy, but he has gotten much better and has that gritty, low usage, high efficiency glue guy game that teams need.
15. Melvin Ejim – solid undersized PF, gritty do-everything player with decent but not great 3 pointer. Seemed to me he was our 2nd best player in the 2016 Olympic Qualifiers
16. Kyle Wiltjer – The Bizzarro World version of Khem Birch? Starting to settle in and produce for Olympiacos. He could be a very potent FIBA role player, but lacks the physical profile for the NBA.
17. Dylan Ennis – excellent early season showing in the Adriatic league has drawn him into the EuroLeague where has been playing well.
18. Phil Scrubb – Starring in the German BBL (which I am not totally sure what that really means). He should move up to a better league next year and we’ll get a better feel for how good he is.
19. Dyshawn Pierre - solid undersized PF, gritty do-everything player with decent but not great 3 pointer. I see allot of Melvin Ejim in Pierre.
20. Xavier Rathan Maynes – young and on the rise. Not sure I see a NBA player in him, but I think he could play in the highest European leagues. Great size for FIBA.
21. Olivier Hanlan – mature enough now that we can see he is a solid, if unspectacular guard. Not sure he is a good FIBA fit. Never quite know if he is better as a SG or PG.
22. Anthony Bennett – I’m just seeing less and less with Bennett each game and he free falling down this list.
23. Marc Trasolini – I think he is quite under rated. Has performed well in solid European leagues. Way better stats (especially efficiency) than Sacre this year in Japan. Probably better than Bennett?
24. Robert Sacre – Not sure how he can be a 7 footer in Japan shooting well below 50%. Never been sure how he played so many years in the NBA.
25. Naz Mitrou-Long - still very unproven. Has played fairly well in the G-League but still fairly inefficient.

Honorable Mentions –
Brady Heslip
Chris Boucher
Jordan Bachynski
Andy Rautins
Thomas Scrubb
Justin Edwards


Any major disagreements? Or omissions? It is pretty subjective list all around, but especially in the 15-25 range. I am trying to keep up to speed on all these guys but you better believe I am not regularly watching G-League games or Italian Series-A league games. But I am trying to watch boxscores and keep up to date on how they guys are preforming, improving and what people are saying about them. Might be worth updating this list every few months with risers and fallers...

Pangos is a very good player, and as I said about a year ago, could definitely play in the NBA. So I rate him higher than you do. However, one of the best point guards in EuroLeague is a bit of a stretch. It's one thing to be an important player in Zalgiris, and a completely different thing to be one in a big EuroLeague team.

He's a tremendous shooter, a good ball handler, and a decent passer, solid at pick and pop, but that's about it. He can't create much in general, he's not good at screen roll, he is better off the ball than on the ball, he plays more like a shooting guard than a point guard, he needs specific plays setup for him with screens, or he can't really get his shot off for the most part, and he absolutely cannot score in the paint or around the rim.

He's a very good player in general, and he is better than some guards in the NBA for sure, but I wouldn't say he's a top level point guard in EuroLeague. I would even take someone like Huertel (that I don't like) over him. Really, you should view him as more of a shooting guard, because he's honestly much better as a two guard.

Phil Scrubb is quite underrated I think in this forum. He has all the tools and skills. I think he's better overall than Pangos for example, or at least he's definitely a more skilled player overall on offense.

As far as Kyle Wiltjer goes...he's a really strange player. He's incredibly good on individual offense, but does not offer much on team offense, other than his ability to stretch the floor. So he kind of gets locked into being a stretch four, despite having great offensive skills in general.

On the other hand....he can't guard anyone. Just about every opponent goes off on him. I was watching the Greek League game between Olympiacos and PAOK, and as soon as he was in the game, Linos Chrysikopoulos (a super talent that never really materialized, due to tons of early career injuries) just immediately went into attack mode and was just going right at Wilter.

I'm not sure I have ever seen a player with such an extreme gap in how they play on either side of the court, as is the case with Wiltjer. He's so skilled offensively as a one to one scorer, and he's so ridiculously bad as a man defender. The other problem with Wiltjer is that he won't rebound. He's 6-10, but he won't go for rebounds.

If he was even half-way decent on defense, and put forth some effort on the boards, he could be an amazing player.

Doornekamp had a great season last year in ACB and in BCL (Champions League) with a smallish club (Tenerife). He's not doing so good this year in a mid-sized club like Valencia, that also plays in EuroLeague. He's still a good defender, good team player, and a glue guy type, but his offense went south immediately at the higher level of competition.

[super_balls]

Some recent updates to rankings and predictions for the classes of 2017-2018:

Even after moving Shai GA to the 2018 draft (projected #11), DraftNet currently predicts 5 Canadians in the first round of the 2019 draft: Barrett (#1), Nickeil AW (#8), Brissett (#11), Simi (#15), and Wigginton (#25). Frankly, I think that's a bit of an over-hype for most (Brissett a lottery pick?), maybe with the exception of Simi. But nice to see them getting some love and attention. Jackson is now projected at the end of the second round, but I think much will be determined by how he comes back from the injury next year.

Rivals rankings for the class of 2018 seem more realistic (to me at least). They have 5 Canadians in their top-150, but they only rank those playing in the US. Barrett (1), Simi (7), and Nembhart (16) are all considered 5 stars, but now they also say Brezdaikas is, which means if he were ranked he would be a top-30 player (maybe higher). Dort is the other player not ranked. They give him 4 stars, but I would give him 5 and rank him as a top-30 talent. The two others are Llewellyn (90), who I would also put higher, and Kirkwood (126).

Altogether, a really good field of potential for these two classes, especially since they don't even mention Akot in these rankings, but I still have much faith that he'll bounce back.

Shai is looking like the second coming of Delon Wright. Similar builds, similar games (not great shooter, not super athletic but amazing at using PnR and using hesitations) and length/height as a PG. I'm not sure about being at 11 but a lot of scouts are noticing him and pegging him as the 2nd best prospect on Kentucky after Knox.

[frumble]

A few posts back people were discussing about who were currently the best Canadian bball players and it got me thinking about doing a “Top 25 Canadian Power Ranking” for the hell of it. Who doesn’t like hot take Power Rankings from some rando on a forum?

I am curious if we are generally on the same page or have serious disagreement.

This is merely my humble opinion but I have a few parameters running through my head used for this subjective ranking. This my current, right now ranking of the best Canadian players. Team fit, chemistry, future potential is all out the door. This is also a blend of NBA and FIBA competency which is admittedly a nefarious qualifier and even completely theoretical is some cases. We can obviously shift guys around somewhat if we are talking just FIBA or NBA. Blending the two means a guy like Olynyk gets a little air in his tires and a guy like Thompson gets a slight downgrade. And by no means if I was selecting a hypothetical Team Canada would the Top 12 guys certainly be the best team as you’d need to look at fit, rolls, experience, chemistry when crafting a team. This is also pro players only – no NCAA players, no highschoolers (aka Barrett) as it is just too hard to compare those kids at this point in time to pros and their development is so quick.

So here goes….

Top 25 Power Rankings – Canadian Professionals

1. Andrew Wiggins – I still think he is Canada’s best player, although maybe for not much longer. Still sky high potential but we all know the questions about him (no need to rehash yet again). Also questionable FIBA fit, but even at 20 was out best player at the 2015 FIBA Americas.
2. Jamal Murray – Rising fast as Canada’s top talent. Could be #1 by the end of the season. Starting SG (not PG) on my current Canadian Dream Team.
3. Kelly Olynyk – finally gelling with teammates in Miami, seems to be expanding his game. Strong FIBA fit. Pretty darn close between the top three in my mind right now. KO is might be my #1 in a FIBA only list.
4. Cory Joseph – steady, mature, nothing too flashy, solid all around, proven FIBA player, leader. Still the best starting PG for Canada IMO.
5. Trey Lyles – rising the ranks very quickly. He needs to maintain this recent level of high performance over a longer period to move him up. Could be a great FIBA fit, but unproven.
6. Dwight Powell – having a great (mini-breakout) season, finally figuring out his role in the NBA. Solid but limited, high efficiency, low usage NBA/FIBA role player.
7. Tristan Thompson – Falling down the ranks in both NBA and FIBA. Very limited role player, but very valuable in the right line-up with the right team mates (Needs to be paired with a Nicholson, Olynyk, Lyles, Wiltjer type)
8. Dillon Brooks – Surprised everyone by becoming a starter in Memphis. Boatload of intangibles, good two way game (an anti-Stauskas to me right now).
9. Andrew Nicholson – Still a very good player, but couldn’t find the right roll in the NBA. A very potent offensive player in FIBA. Always a pretty bad defender though.
10. Kevin Pangos – quickly becoming one of the best PGs in Europe. Physical measurements will likely keep him out of the NBA, but I’m convinced he is better than many NBA players who are in the league with better physical profiles and upside potential. Looks like a great FIBA fit.
11. Nik Stauskas – Time is running out on Nik as well, but could easily still revitalize himself in the NBA. I don’t see a mentally strong player who I’d want in pressure situations (unlike Pangos) which depresses his ranking.
12. Tyler Ennis – Borderline NBA player who could stick around in the league for years or be waived this season. Maybe on par with Pangos overall but a much worse outside shooter (he is back to horrible from 3 again this year). The lack of shooting is especially bad for FIBA and he is not getting the FIBA pressure/experience like Pangos.
13. Khem Birch – Not too far off from Tristan Thompson. Very similar player, maybe a better rim protector, but worse defender overall, over limited offensively. I never ever want to see TT and Khem on the floor together (nor either with Powell for that matter).
14. Aaron Doornekmap – underrated 3&D role player. Improved his game significantly over the last three years. Many people here hate the guy, but he has gotten much better and has that gritty, low usage, high efficiency glue guy game that teams need.
15. Melvin Ejim – solid undersized PF, gritty do-everything player with decent but not great 3 pointer. Seemed to me he was our 2nd best player in the 2016 Olympic Qualifiers
16. Kyle Wiltjer – The Bizzarro World version of Khem Birch? Starting to settle in and produce for Olympiacos. He could be a very potent FIBA role player, but lacks the physical profile for the NBA.
17. Dylan Ennis – excellent early season showing in the Adriatic league has drawn him into the EuroLeague where has been playing well.
18. Phil Scrubb – Starring in the German BBL (which I am not totally sure what that really means). He should move up to a better league next year and we’ll get a better feel for how good he is.
19. Dyshawn Pierre - solid undersized PF, gritty do-everything player with decent but not great 3 pointer. I see allot of Melvin Ejim in Pierre.
20. Xavier Rathan Maynes – young and on the rise. Not sure I see a NBA player in him, but I think he could play in the highest European leagues. Great size for FIBA.
21. Olivier Hanlan – mature enough now that we can see he is a solid, if unspectacular guard. Not sure he is a good FIBA fit. Never quite know if he is better as a SG or PG.
22. Anthony Bennett – I’m just seeing less and less with Bennett each game and he free falling down this list.
23. Marc Trasolini – I think he is quite under rated. Has performed well in solid European leagues. Way better stats (especially efficiency) than Sacre this year in Japan. Probably better than Bennett?
24. Robert Sacre – Not sure how he can be a 7 footer in Japan shooting well below 50%. Never been sure how he played so many years in the NBA.
25. Naz Mitrou-Long - still very unproven. Has played fairly well in the G-League but still fairly inefficient.

Honorable Mentions –
Brady Heslip
Chris Boucher
Jordan Bachynski
Andy Rautins
Thomas Scrubb
Justin Edwards


Any major disagreements? Or omissions? It is pretty subjective list all around, but especially in the 15-25 range. I am trying to keep up to speed on all these guys but you better believe I am not regularly watching G-League games or Italian Series-A league games. But I am trying to watch boxscores and keep up to date on how they guys are preforming, improving and what people are saying about them. Might be worth updating this list every few months with risers and fallers...

Good list.

These are very minor, but among guards I would move Scrubb, XRM, and Hanlan ahead of D. Ennis. And I would move Heslip and Rautins ahead of Long.

Among bigs, maybe add Bhullar to the HM list (I think he is about on par with Bachynski). Maybe Klassen as well.

If Lyles keeps up his recent play (has any Canadian other than Nash ever had a one-month stretch* like the one Lyles is on now?), I can see putting him in the first tier with Murray, KO, and Wiggins.


* Since Dec 10 (a period of 15 games), Lyles has averaged 17.7 points and 7.1 rebounds (in 28.6 minutes) on 57.5% shooting (including 50.7% from 3).

[mojo13]

Pangos is a very good player, and as I said about a year ago, could definitely play in the NBA. So I rate him higher than you do. However, one of the best point guards in EuroLeague is a bit of a stretch. It's one thing to be an important player in Zalgiris, and a completely different thing to be one in a big EuroLeague team.

He's a tremendous shooter, a good ball handler, and a decent passer, solid at pick and pop, but that's about it. He can't create much in general, he's not good at screen roll, he is better off the ball than on the ball, he plays more like a shooting guard than a point guard, he needs specific plays setup for him with screens, or he can't really get his shot off for the most part, and he absolutely cannot score in the paint or around the rim.

He's a very good player in general, and he is better than some guards in the NBA for sure, but I wouldn't say he's a top level point guard in EuroLeague. I would even take someone like Huertel (that I don't like) over him. Really, you should view him as more of a shooting guard, because he's honestly much better as a two guard.

Phil Scrubb is quite underrated I think in this forum. He has all the tools and skills. I think he's better overall than Pangos for example, or at least he's definitely a more skilled player overall on offense.

As far as Kyle Wiltjer goes...he's a really strange player. He's incredibly good on individual offense, but does not offer much on team offense, other than his ability to stretch the floor. So he kind of gets locked into being a stretch four, despite having great offensive skills in general.

On the other hand....he can't guard anyone. Just about every opponent goes off on him. I was watching the Greek League game between Olympiacos and PAOK, and as soon as he was in the game, Linos Chrysikopoulos (a super talent that never really materialized, due to tons of early career injuries) just immediately went into attack mode and was just going right at Wilter.

I'm not sure I have ever seen a player with such an extreme gap in how they play on either side of the court, as is the case with Wiltjer. He's so skilled offensively as a one to one scorer, and he's so ridiculously bad as a man defender. The other problem with Wiltjer is that he won't rebound. He's 6-10, but he won't go for rebounds.

If he was even half-way decent on defense, and put forth some effort on the boards, he could be an amazing player.

Doornekamp had a great season last year in ACB and in BCL (Champions League) with a smallish club (Tenerife). He's not doing so good this year in a mid-sized club like Valencia, that also plays in EuroLeague. He's still a good defender, good team player, and a glue guy type, but his offense went south immediately at the higher level of competition.

Thanks for the input on the European based players. It is always helpful to hear from someone actually watching the games. I am mostly viewing highlight packages which don't give the full picture.

I do want to point out Pangos is 4th in the EuroLeague in assists, but I am sure that could be a symptom of the system they are running. Doornekamp is definitely not playing like he did at Tenerife last year (he was excellent and 1st All BCL last year), but he is still top three in MPG, rebounding, three pointers made for Valencia and leading the team in steals so he is doing something right for them. I assume he his role is to do the rough, gritty defensive work and expected to hit the open three. But he certainly could be ranked to high here.

Where do you think Phil Scrubb goes next year? Is he lead PG material for a EuroLeague team? I have been really high on him this season, but then he was awful in our WC Qualifier game versus Dominican Republic (wildly out of control) - so that knocked him down a bit.

[mojo13]

Good list.

These are very minor, but among guards I would move Scrubb, XRM, and Hanlan ahead of D. Ennis. And I would move Heslip and Rautins ahead of Long.

Among bigs, maybe add Bhullar to the HM list (I think he is about on par with Bachynski). Maybe Klassen as well.

If Lyles keeps up his recent play (has any Canadian other than Nash ever had a one-month stretch* like the one Lyles is on now?), I can see putting him in the first tier with Murray, KO, and Wiggins.


* Since Dec 10 (a period of 15 games), Lyles has averaged 17.7 points and 7.1 rebounds (in 28.6 minutes) on 57.5% shooting (including 50.7% from 3).

I'm with you on most of this.
Agree with Long vs Heslip/Rautins but it is close. I have perhaps and irrational beef with Heslip as I think his defensive awfulness is wildly underrated. Casual fans love him (chicks dig the three ball!), but I am believe he hurts most teams he plays on more than he helps.

Lyles - Trunks are on and I'm about to jump into the pool, but am waiting a little longer.

Dylan Ennis has been a revaluation at Mega Bemax and has jumped right in Crvena Zvezda playing quite well. He doesn't have the history, is a more mature rookie but I think what he has done in Europe this year is very under the radar. He sure seems better than Hanlan right now, probably XRM (but he has way more upside), but I agree I am not sure about Scrubb.

I put Bachynski well ahead of Bhullar mostly due to the comparison of their 2015/16 G-League performances. Sim is so darn limited and immobile. How does a coach play him, unless the team is crappy enough to be built around him. Bachynski is near the same size, a better rim protector and much, much more mobile.
http://gleague.nba.com/player/sim-bhullar/
http://gleague.nba.com/player/jordan-bachynski/
Also among the real basketball minds, one is deemed good enough to sign in Spain's ACB, the best the other can do is Taiwan. Sim is on par with Liam McMorrow not Jordan Bachynski. Maybe not even on par with Dallin Bachynski.

And Kyle Landry should be added to the HM list, if Klassen is.

[slothrop8]

Good list.

These are very minor, but among guards I would move Scrubb, XRM, and Hanlan ahead of D. Ennis. And I would move Heslip and Rautins ahead of Long.

Among bigs, maybe add Bhullar to the HM list (I think he is about on par with Bachynski). Maybe Klassen as well.

If Lyles keeps up his recent play (has any Canadian other than Nash ever had a one-month stretch* like the one Lyles is on now?), I can see putting him in the first tier with Murray, KO, and Wiggins.


* Since Dec 10 (a period of 15 games), Lyles has averaged 17.7 points and 7.1 rebounds (in 28.6 minutes) on 57.5% shooting (including 50.7% from 3).

I'm with you on most of this.
Agree with Long vs Heslip/Rautins but it is close. I have perhaps and irrational beef with Heslip as I think his defensive awfulness is wildly underrated. Casual fans love him (chicks dig the three ball!), but I am believe he hurts most teams he plays on more than he helps.

Lyles - Trunks are on and I'm about to jump into the pool, but am waiting a little longer.

Dylan Ennis has been a revaluation at Mega Bemax and has jumped right in Crvena Zvezda playing quite well. He doesn't have the history, is a more mature rookie but I think what he has done in Europe this year is very under the radar. He sure seems better than Hanlan right now, probably XRM (but he has way more upside), but I agree I am not sure about Scrubb.

I put Bachynski well ahead of Bhullar mostly due to the comparison of their 2015/16 G-League performances. Sim is so darn limited and immobile. How does a coach play him, unless the team is crappy enough to be built around him. Bachynski is near the same size, a better rim protector and much, much more mobile.
http://gleague.nba.com/player/sim-bhullar/
http://gleague.nba.com/player/jordan-bachynski/
Also among the real basketball minds, one is deemed good enough to sign in Spain's ACB, the best the other can do is Taiwan. Sim is on par with Liam McMorrow not Jordan Bachynski. Maybe not even on par with Dallin Bachynski.

And Kyle Landry should be added to the HM list, if Klassen is.

I like the list as well. I've got some quibbles though too! Jamal Murray has surpassed Wiggins - he put up 19/4/3 on 60.8% TS in December and is at 19.5/3/3 on 59.9% TS so far this month. Wiggins has a 50.2% TS for the year n a league where league average is 55.6% - that is frankly outright bad. Given that Wiggins contributes minimally in other ways - a guy whose biggest contribution is scoring being that inefficient, there's an argument that he's hurting you more than helping you at this point. I think Wiggins is way better than he's shown this year and I have hopes (albeit increasingly fading hopes) that light will eventually come on for Wiggins - but you wouldn't have to argue too hard with me to persuade me most of our better NBA guys are actually better overall players than he is right now. At the very least Murray definitely is, and Lyles is playing way better than Wiggins is right now too.

Secondly, I love the guy - but Sacre has to be out of the top 25 and at the bottom of the honourable mention pile. He's just so offensively limited he's virtually unplayable in any serious professional league.

Appreciate the effort that went into pulling that together - made for an interesting read.

[BilboBanginz]

Lindell Wigginton dropped 27 on Kansas last night.

Watch on YouTube

Iowa State isn't very good this year but i've been keeping my eye on him due to the Nova Scotian connection. He's looking good so far. Doubt he goes in the draft this year though.

[Hair Canada]

Thanks, mojo, that's a great idea and really appreciate the time you put into it. Hope you can make it a tradition and update the list a couple of times a year. I also agree with the majority of your rankings and write up (great write up on players like Joseph and Olynyk. Couldn't agree more).

But of course, the whole fun with this sort of list is to debate them a bit. So here's my two cents.

First, I agree with slothrop and would put Murray first. He's just a better player than Wiggins already when all considered. Better shooter, better defender, and contributing more in other aspects of the game. Would also put Phil Scrubb higher -- right after the NBA guys (before Stauskas). For me, he's currently our best player out of the league. Pangos may be better offensively, but Phil is a better two-way player. Would make my final 12 even if every eligible player showed up.

But let me also make a more interesting argument. For me, some of the younger guys have already shown enough to be considered among our top-25. Specifically, I'm thinking two:

RJ Barrett is already I think a better player than some of those on the list. If Doncic at 18 was the best or second best player on a European champion Slovenia this summer, why not Barrett, who is not less talented? And it's not just future talent. I would argue that if you put him today on one of the best college teams, he would be their best player (just as he was as a freshman at Montverde, right after he joined) and perhaps he could even already find some minutes on an NBA team. The level he showed in the U19 against some talented college players would be enough for me to put him as a top-20, perhaps even top-15.

SGA (Shai) is the second. Honestly, I would already take him to my team before XRM. Just look at XRM's stats from his last year at Florida State (last year) and compare to SGA stats at a better Kentucky team. SGA has more point, on much better percentage from 3 and from the line, twice as many rebounds, and about the same number of assists. He's also clearly superior defensively, with three times the steals and many more blocks and deflections. I know he can seem a bit slow and not very athletic, but he just has his way of affecting the game with great size and a very deceptive game. And he has an alpha mentality. For me, he's now the best player on a Kentucky team that is full of future NBA players. So I think he also has a place in this power 25 list.

[aminiaturebuddha]

Has anyone seen any Virginia Tech games this year? NAW has really tailed off after his hot start, although from the box scores it seems as though it's mostly a result of not getting as many shots in recent games. In tonight's game, for example, he was 6th on the team in shot attempts.

Has Virginia Tech changed their offence since the beginning of the year? Lost confidence in NAW? Is it just a case of other teams keying in on him and taking the ball out of his hands? Anyone know what's been going on there?

[Hair Canada]

Has anyone seen any Virginia Tech games this year? NAW has really tailed off after his hot start, although from the box scores it seems as though it's mostly a result of not getting as many shots in recent games. In tonight's game, for example, he was 6th on the team in shot attempts.

Has Virginia Tech changed their offense since the beginning of the year? Lost confidence in NAW? Is it just a case of other teams keying in on him and taking the ball out of his hands? Anyone know what's been going on there?

Haven't seen NAW at Virginia, but caught quite a few games of his last year at high school (Hamilton Heights). He has a bit of a tendency to take a back sit in games. Even though he was by far one of the two best players on that team, there were games where he just stood on the perimeter without too much movement and was waiting for someone to pass the ball. Usually doesn't really take over games. In some ways, it might be good, because if and when he gets to the NBA he's unlikely to be a star and would be more of a complimentary shooter. But he can look a bit anemic on the court sometimes, especially when opponents are very physical with him. For me, he's more naturally gifted and skilled than SGA, but the latter is much more of an alpha dog.

[mojo13]

Pangos is a very good player, and as I said about a year ago, could definitely play in the NBA. So I rate him higher than you do. However, one of the best point guards in EuroLeague is a bit of a stretch. It's one thing to be an important player in Zalgiris, and a completely different thing to be one in a big EuroLeague team.

He's a tremendous shooter, a good ball handler, and a decent passer, solid at pick and pop, but that's about it. He can't create much in general, he's not good at screen roll, he is better off the ball than on the ball, he plays more like a shooting guard than a point guard, he needs specific plays setup for him with screens, or he can't really get his shot off for the most part, and he absolutely cannot score in the paint or around the rim.

He's a very good player in general, and he is better than some guards in the NBA for sure, but I wouldn't say he's a top level point guard in EuroLeague. I would even take someone like Huertel (that I don't like) over him. Really, you should view him as more of a shooting guard, because he's honestly much better as a two guard.

Phil Scrubb is quite underrated I think in this forum. He has all the tools and skills. I think he's better overall than Pangos for example, or at least he's definitely a more skilled player overall on offense.

As far as Kyle Wiltjer goes...he's a really strange player. He's incredibly good on individual offense, but does not offer much on team offense, other than his ability to stretch the floor. So he kind of gets locked into being a stretch four, despite having great offensive skills in general.

On the other hand....he can't guard anyone. Just about every opponent goes off on him. I was watching the Greek League game between Olympiacos and PAOK, and as soon as he was in the game, Linos Chrysikopoulos (a super talent that never really materialized, due to tons of early career injuries) just immediately went into attack mode and was just going right at Wilter.

I'm not sure I have ever seen a player with such an extreme gap in how they play on either side of the court, as is the case with Wiltjer. He's so skilled offensively as a one to one scorer, and he's so ridiculously bad as a man defender. The other problem with Wiltjer is that he won't rebound. He's 6-10, but he won't go for rebounds.

If he was even half-way decent on defense, and put forth some effort on the boards, he could be an amazing player.

Doornekamp had a great season last year in ACB and in BCL (Champions League) with a smallish club (Tenerife). He's not doing so good this year in a mid-sized club like Valencia, that also plays in EuroLeague. He's still a good defender, good team player, and a glue guy type, but his offense went south immediately at the higher level of competition.

Thanks for the input on the European based players. It is always helpful to hear from someone actually watching the games. I am mostly viewing highlight packages which don't give the full picture.

I do want to point out Pangos is 4th in the EuroLeague in assists, but I am sure that could be a symptom of the system they are running. Doornekamp is definitely not playing like he did at Tenerife last year (he was excellent and 1st All BCL last year), but he is still top three in MPG, rebounding, three pointers made for Valencia and leading the team in steals so he is doing something right for them. I assume he his role is to do the rough, gritty defensive work and expected to hit the open three. But he certainly could be ranked to high here.

Where do you think Phil Scrubb goes next year? Is he lead PG material for a EuroLeague team? I have been really high on him this season, but then he was awful in our WC Qualifier game versus Dominican Republic (wildly out of control) - so that knocked him down a bit.

Eurohoops.net article names Pangos/Jankunas the #1 passing duo in the EuroLeague.
http://www.eurohoops.net/en/euroleague/590730/best-euroleague-passing-duos/
This might be meaningless content filler, but I find it interesting the publicity/coverage Pangos is getting this year.



And MavsMoneyball.com did their midseason grades of Mavs players.
Here is the write up on Powell - who has had a fantastic turnaround year.
https://www.mavsmoneyball.com/2018/1/11/16861958/mid-season-grades-dallas-mavericks

By far the best thing about Powell this season is that he’s stayed in his lane, so to speak, and is thriving by doing the things he’s really good at and avoiding the stuff he’s bad at.

Powell is still taking way too many threes and not making a lot of them, but for now, he’s solidified his role as an off-the-bench rim runner extraordinaire. I touched on this last season, but it’s pretty cool to see Powell go from a sort of aimless, hilariously overpaid big to a narrowly focused, regular overpaid big. Powell is an honest-to-god elite rim-runner and his speed and explosiveness in the pick and roll is the only thing besides Dirk that invokes dreamy memories of the buttery Dallas offense from years past. When Powell is in the game, the Mavericks, for brief moments, look like the 2015 Tyson Chandler-Brandan Wright team. He rolls so hard and so fast that he catches defenders napping, and he’s developed some great chemistry with the Mavs bench guards. The fact that Powell has become elite at anything is a major win considering where he was two years ago.

He’s still an inconsistent rebounder and one of the worst rim defenders I’ve ever seen. In a league where centers who can’t shoot are nearing extinction, it’s definitely fair to ask why Powell commands as much of the cap as he does if he never tops out as anything more than what he is right now.

I get it, I really do. But I’m still pretty smitten that Powell has turned into something. A few years ago, we wondered if he’d be anything.



And for anyone in the vicinity - the G-League showcase is going on in Mississauga over the next few days. Anthony Bennett had his first good game for Maine Red Claws. 22 points, 7-12 FG, 6-10 3s!, 11 rebounds, 1 block. Seemed to be playing PF, but wondering if anyone watched the game.
XRM, Hanlan, Mulder are all in town for this. Not sure about Birch or Long yet ( I think Long is).
Also noticed Richard Armadi hasn't been with the 905 for a while - looks like he turned up signing in Slovakia's SBL.

[TooBad]

Wiggins, Muray and Lyles all had 20+ games last night. For the last two, it's becoming almost a routine, so no one seems to get excited anymore. Amazing how quickly you get used to good things.

Especially Lyles, who's averaging 20 and 8 in January (still a small sample size) and showing no signs of slowing down after his excellent December. People in the Nuggets must be starting to question the decision to give Milsap that 3-year 90mil contract in the summer. Lyles seems to give a similar production (minus the passing for now) in fewer minutes, but he's getting only 9mil for three years...

9 mill over the next three years? Damn.. that is outstanding value if he can continue to play well. Nuggets have been a fun team to watch this year with Murray/Lyle's.

Only two years right? Third year (19/20) would be Qualifying offer and you'd think they extend him before that.

Anyways - I am holding on with baited breath on Lyles due to the Millsap situation. You'd have to think Millsap starts when he comes back, but it seems Lyles should be the first big off the bench.

Yes...I'd certainly say they are regretting the Millsap signing, but it is only a 2 yr / 60 mil. commitment. The third year is a club option and coincides with Trey's Qualifying year (19/20). If that was today, they certainly extend Trey and not option Millsap.

Here are Denver's contracts:
http://www.spotrac.com/nba/denver-nuggets/contracts/
Click the names for details.





And here is the round up of Canadian playing pro last week:
http://www.usbasket.com/Canada/news/518714/Andrew-Nicholson's-39-points-make-him-top-Canadian-player-abroad-of-the-week

I'd sure love me some Andrew Nicholson in the February WC Qualifier games. He'd fill a gaping offensive hole. He is dropping over two 3s a game on 41% 3pt shooting. He'd be an automatic 20pts a game.
Bennett has been bad since he joined the Maine Red Claws - I do not think we should expect much out of him in Feb and really need some more help upfront. Ejim could still be in play. Or just go with Trasolini who can provide some offense.

Also looks like the Knicks might sign Trey Burke who has been tearing up the G. Which would give XRM more room to maneuver and develop. XRM continues to play well in the G.

Chris Boucher is still inactive with Santa Cruz - still no idea when he starts playing (but not available to Team Canada anyways this Feb.)

Also did anyone mention Khem Birch was extended by the Magic for the rest of the season? He had a partial guarantee and if kept after the 6th he would be guaranteed the rest of the season. He has been playing great in the G - just not real room for him with the Magic (yet) with Vuc, Biyombo and Speights all still in his way. His time will come I think.

Bennett 22 pts 11 reb 6-10 from 3

Watch on YouTube

[frumble]

The February qualifying games (VI and Bahamas) are both on the road, right?

Anyone know if a location has been announced for the home games against DR and VI over the Canada Day weekend?

Thanks.