Is Boston only one piece away from being able to hang with the Warriors?

[CeltsfanSinceBirth]

Personally, I'm mostly intrigued by what the Warriors decide to do from a financial standpoint in the coming seasons rather than additions to the Celtics roster. That repeater tax is going to be a massive punch in the mouth.

That team is moving to San Francisco to play in a new arena soon. Would not doubt for a second that Lacob keeps that team together so he can charge an exorbitant amount of money for season tickets, luxury suites, corporate sponsorship, etc. The dot com billionaires and millionaires in the city can afford it. I believe they'll be the only NBA team to charge a personal seat licence fee. Let's hope this business model fails miserably, because if it does work out, I can see other teams start charging it as well.

The salary with the luxury tax is going to be over a billion dollars in total over four years. No owner is paying that he can still charge the same amount of money at his arena and just have kd/steph +klay or dray.

We'll see about that. Ticket prices for Stubhub games only started jumping after they became a contender. No offense to the die-hard Warriors fans in Oakland, but those people ponying up stupid amounts of money are probably bandwagon fan, tech bros from Silicon Valley.

[HoopsterJones]

Depends on the piece. Don’t think think they can beat GS in the Finals before they have to re-sign Kyrie and maybe Horford. Depends on how the other guys develop too.

[Triple M]

Taking Horford out and adding AD might not be the benefit most assume just because of Al's role as an initiator of so much of the Celtics offense and I don't think we can just plug AD into that role despite Davis being the superior individual talent. Now that might change if Hayward returns close to 100 % and takes playmaking pressure off of Kyrie or Kyrie grows into the role as a playmaker the more he becomes accustomed to Stevens' system.

As for winning a title, I think they are one of few teams that has contender potential over the next five seasons, but it will be difficult to crack though given how strong the Warriors will be over the same time span. They are in a good position nevertheless just will need planets to align at some point over the next few seasons.

Brad Stevens isn't some incompetent coach who can't adjust his system to fit the skillsets of his players. Remember how everyone had the same concerns with Durant not fitting into the Warriors system just 2 summers ago? Yeah... Even Kerr figured that out pretty quickly, and he doesn't have half the coaching ability that Stevens does. Replacing a good role player with a young superstar is always the right move.

Yes you are right, and Stevens has already shown himself to be flexible, e.g. 2014-2015 season when the Celtics had 22 players on the roster at one point, and they were able to get them into the playoffs. However, a team that lacks playmaking ability and reling on Kyrie and AD might have difficulty in the playoffs and might be easier for opponents to game plan. As I mentioned someone would need to take on the playmaking role, and I don't see Kyrie being optimal in that position.

[Harry Garris]

Taking Horford out and adding AD might not be the benefit most assume just because of Al's role as an initiator of so much of the Celtics offense and I don't think we can just plug AD into that role despite Davis being the superior individual talent. Now that might change if Hayward returns close to 100 % and takes playmaking pressure off of Kyrie or Kyrie grows into the role as a playmaker the more he becomes accustomed to Stevens' system.

As for winning a title, I think they are one of few teams that has contender potential over the next five seasons, but it will be difficult to crack though given how strong the Warriors will be over the same time span. They are in a good position nevertheless just will need planets to align at some point over the next few seasons.

Brad Stevens isn't some incompetent coach who can't adjust his system to fit the skillsets of his players. Remember how everyone had the same concerns with Durant not fitting into the Warriors system just 2 summers ago? Yeah... Even Kerr figured that out pretty quickly, and he doesn't have half the coaching ability that Stevens does. Replacing a good role player with a young superstar is always the right move.

Yes you are right, and Stevens has already shown himself to be flexible, e.g. 2014-2015 season when the Celtics had 22 players on the roster at one point, and they were able to get them into the playoffs. However, a team that lacks playmaking ability and reling on Kyrie and AD might have difficulty in the playoffs and might be easier for opponents to game plan. As I mentioned someone would need to take on the playmaking role, and I don't see Kyrie being optimal in that position.

AD has some passing ability. It's just not his role in the Pelicans offense to create for others very often. I think he could develop into a good facilitator if it was emphasized for him to do that in Boston. He already has the skills to handle the ball on the perimeter so he wouldn't just be relegated to passing from the post, either.

[Pelly24]

Talent level would have to be at least 4 top 30ish or better players. Not sure how to pull that off.

It'd be very close. I think Kyrie and Hayward are both probably top 20, with Kyrie being possibly top 15 after this year. Tatum could be a top 15 player as soon as two years from now, when the former two will still be in their primes. Then Brown should be at least a fringe all star 3&D guy. Horford will always be useful if they can get him at a reasonable price.

[Duke4life831]

Talent level would have to be at least 4 top 30ish or better players. Not sure how to pull that off.

Are they that far from that already? Kyrie and Hayward are no brainier top 30 players. Horford right now is a top 30 player as well. So if they add one more, wouldn't be hard if they traded away Brown and the Lakers pick (if they get it) and there you go, that's 4 players in the top 30, plus a young guy in Tatum that I don't think would shock too many people if he became a top 30 player. By the time Horford's age catches up to him, Tatum should be making the next step.

[kabstah]

Current Celtics are only about as good as the 2015 Atlanta Hawks, and no single player in the history of the NBA is enough to make them even remotely competitive against GSW. If the Warriors gave Kevin Durant to the Celtics FOR FREE right now, Boston still might not be good enough to make the Finals, and even if they did, Celtics + Durant would lose in 4 or 5 to Warriors - Durant.

[zronv7]

warriors have't even been able to beat this C's squad yet

[Dopeness]

That team is moving to San Francisco to play in a new arena soon. Would not doubt for a second that Lacob keeps that team together so he can charge an exorbitant amount of money for season tickets, luxury suites, corporate sponsorship, etc. The dot com billionaires and millionaires in the city can afford it. I believe they'll be the only NBA team to charge a personal seat licence fee. Let's hope this business model fails miserably, because if it does work out, I can see other teams start charging it as well.

The salary with the luxury tax is going to be over a billion dollars in total over four years. No owner is paying that he can still charge the same amount of money at his arena and just have kd/steph +klay or dray.

We'll see about that. Ticket prices for Stubhub games only started jumping after they became a contender. No offense to the die-hard Warriors fans in Oakland, but those people ponying up stupid amounts of money are probably bandwagon fan, tech bros from Silicon Valley.

Are the Celtics going to pay Hayward+Kyrie+Tatum+Brown all max contracts?

Cause all 4 of them will be worth max deals all at the same time. Plus whatever rookie you get with the Lakers pick if he turns out anywhere decnet will be worth a max deal in 4 years.

Celtics have just as many decisions to make in the next 2-3 years as the Warriors do. It will be tough to keep both teams together.

[HeartBreakKid]

Current Celtics are only about as good as the 2015 Atlanta Hawks, and no single player in the history of the NBA is enough to make them even remotely competitive against GSW. If the Warriors gave Kevin Durant to the Celtics FOR FREE right now, Boston still might not be good enough to make the Finals, and even if they did, Celtics + Durant would lose in 4 or 5 to Warriors - Durant.

Really? Horford was the best player on that team, and he's probably the 3rd best player on this team with Hayward back. Not to mention Tatum will likely become an all-star caliber player sooner than later.

They're easily better than the Hawks.


EDIT: I forgot about Millsap for a second. Horford was rather close to him though.

[Edrees]

I don't think any (sane) person thinks Pels would trade AD but if you do ask me to name who would allow Boston to be on their level no matter how unrealistic, AD is a good answer. I also think with Gobert they would too but only if Tatum and Brown take significant strides next season.

[itrsteve]

Personally, I'm mostly intrigued by what the Warriors decide to do from a financial standpoint in the coming seasons rather than additions to the Celtics roster. That repeater tax is going to be a massive punch in the mouth.

That team is moving to San Francisco to play in a new arena soon. Would not doubt for a second that Lacob keeps that team together so he can charge an exorbitant amount of money for season tickets, luxury suites, corporate sponsorship, etc. The dot com billionaires and millionaires in the city can afford it. I believe they'll be the only NBA team to charge a personal seat licence fee. Let's hope this business model fails miserably, because if it does work out, I can see other teams start charging it as well.

It’s a pretty bold plan. But as you know, it’s one of the few regions that can sustain it. IIRC, it will be paid back in 30 years at face value, which is a hell of a liability to keep on the books but a great way to get an interest-free loan from the seat holders while they’re riding the wave of success.

[kabstah]

Current Celtics are only about as good as the 2015 Atlanta Hawks, and no single player in the history of the NBA is enough to make them even remotely competitive against GSW. If the Warriors gave Kevin Durant to the Celtics FOR FREE right now, Boston still might not be good enough to make the Finals, and even if they did, Celtics + Durant would lose in 4 or 5 to Warriors - Durant.

Really? Horford was the best player on that team, and he's probably the 3rd best player on this team with Hayward back. Not to mention Tatum will likely become an all-star caliber player sooner than later.

They're easily better than the Hawks.


EDIT: I forgot about Millsap for a second. Horford was rather close to him though.

No matter if you go by W/L, SRS, or point differential, every objective metric puts the present day Celtics and 2015 Hawks on the same level. Right now we have no reason to believe that Boston can be significantly better in the PS than the RS, a la the 2001 Lakers or recent Cavaliers. If anything we should expect them to be worse, because 19 year old rookies like Jayson Tatum have not performed well at all in the playoffs.

Now a full healthy Gordon Hayward would put them another step above the Hawks which would make them a fringe contender in a normal year, but still does absolutely nothing for their chances against GSW. It's like trying to get to the Moon by standing on your desk.

[Splashin]

With Hayward, they can maybe beat the cavs not the warriors. They get someone like Anthony Davis? They can beat the warriors.

[itrsteve]

Are the Celtics going to pay Hayward+Kyrie+Tatum+Brown all max contracts?

Cause all 4 of them will be worth max deals all at the same time. Plus whatever rookie you get with the Lakers pick if he turns out anywhere decnet will be worth a max deal in 4 years.

Celtics have just as many decisions to make in the next 2-3 years as the Warriors do. It will be tough to keep both teams together.

Wyc has been on the record stating they’ll dig into the tax when the time is right. They can do the extensions for Jaylen and JT to buy some time.

Granted I’m a homer, but I don’t feel they’re that far away from a talent perspective when Hayward is back. We’ll have to see what shakes out in the 2019 playoffs.

[Froob]

why do people assume the pels would trade their franchise player in AD to Boston?

The Pels will be screwed if Boogie doesn't stick. AD's last two years of his contract (FA summer of 2020) is something to monitor, a lot of reason to believe AD won't want to stick around. Pels really don't have anyway to improve. At best, they can keep their core intact.

[Patsfan1081]

I think we should wait to see how they fair in the playoffs before making comments like this. IMO they're still a piece away from even competing with the Cavs

With Thomas know back every night for the Cavs will be a shootout as their team is horrendous on defense. The Cavs def aren't a elite team on the same teir as the Warriors, maybe not even the Rockets. They have a lot more to prove then Boston going into the playoffs, who are set for winning down the road. Boston that totally overhauled their team from last season to one that is set up for the future, you can't judge them from previous playoff matchups.

[PierceFan4ever]

Current Celtics are only about as good as the 2015 Atlanta Hawks, and no single player in the history of the NBA is enough to make them even remotely competitive against GSW. If the Warriors gave Kevin Durant to the Celtics FOR FREE right now, Boston still might not be good enough to make the Finals, and even if they did, Celtics + Durant would lose in 4 or 5 to Warriors - Durant.

Really? Horford was the best player on that team, and he's probably the 3rd best player on this team with Hayward back. Not to mention Tatum will likely become an all-star caliber player sooner than later.

They're easily better than the Hawks.


EDIT: I forgot about Millsap for a second. Horford was rather close to him though.

No matter if you go by W/L, SRS, or point differential, every objective metric puts the present day Celtics and 2015 Hawks on the same level. Right now we have no reason to believe that Boston can be significantly better in the PS than the RS, a la the 2001 Lakers or recent Cavaliers. If anything we should expect them to be worse, because 19 year old rookies like Jayson Tatum have not performed well at all in the playoffs.

Now a full healthy Gordon Hayward would put them another step above the Hawks which would make them a fringe contender in a normal year, but still does absolutely nothing for their chances against GSW. It's like trying to get to the Moon by standing on your desk.

They're not the Hawks, not even close. They weren't the Hawks last year. The Hawks got swept without Love and with Kyrie out for like half the series. Celtics last year without IT took a game from a healthy Cavs team. This year's team is much stronger. It's a poor argument to suggest any team that wins possibly 60 or more games is the Atlanta Hawks. Outside of Horford and Millsap, they were relying on Korver, Caroll, and Teague lol. That Hawks team should have lost to Washington if Wall wasn't injured half the series and were being threatened by Paul Pierce in his last legs. Boston has much more talent and better coaching on their side. Awful take

[Patsfan1081]

The salary with the luxury tax is going to be over a billion dollars in total over four years. No owner is paying that he can still charge the same amount of money at his arena and just have kd/steph +klay or dray.

We'll see about that. Ticket prices for Stubhub games only started jumping after they became a contender. No offense to the die-hard Warriors fans in Oakland, but those people ponying up stupid amounts of money are probably bandwagon fan, tech bros from Silicon Valley.

Are the Celtics going to pay Hayward+Kyrie+Tatum+Brown all max contracts?

Cause all 4 of them will be worth max deals all at the same time. Plus whatever rookie you get with the Lakers pick if he turns out anywhere decnet will be worth a max deal in 4 years.

Hayward will be up by the time Tatum is due an extension and I seriously doubt if both he Tatum and Brown prove worthy of max deals they'll give Hayward another huge contract. Boston will still be lacking a good big man by that time and will most likely need to pay out for that.
Celtics have just as many decisions to make in the next 2-3 years as the Warriors do. It will be tough to keep both teams together.

[kabstah]

Really? Horford was the best player on that team, and he's probably the 3rd best player on this team with Hayward back. Not to mention Tatum will likely become an all-star caliber player sooner than later.

They're easily better than the Hawks.


EDIT: I forgot about Millsap for a second. Horford was rather close to him though.

No matter if you go by W/L, SRS, or point differential, every objective metric puts the present day Celtics and 2015 Hawks on the same level. Right now we have no reason to believe that Boston can be significantly better in the PS than the RS, a la the 2001 Lakers or recent Cavaliers. If anything we should expect them to be worse, because 19 year old rookies like Jayson Tatum have not performed well at all in the playoffs.

Now a full healthy Gordon Hayward would put them another step above the Hawks which would make them a fringe contender in a normal year, but still does absolutely nothing for their chances against GSW. It's like trying to get to the Moon by standing on your desk.

They're not the Hawks, not even close. They weren't the Hawks last year. The Hawks got swept without Love and with Kyrie out for like half the series. Celtics last year without IT took a game from a healthy Cavs team. This year's team is much stronger. It's a poor argument to suggest any team that wins possibly 60 or more games is the Atlanta Hawks. Outside of Horford and Millsap, they were relying on Korver, Caroll, and Teague lol. That Hawks team should have lost to Washington if Wall wasn't injured half the series and were being threatened by Paul Pierce in his last legs. Boston has much more talent and better coaching on their side. Awful take

Don't let the one game fool you. The Celtics-Cavs ECF was a much less competitive affair than the Hawks-Cavs ECF. You guys got outscored by 100 points over 5 games, they got outscored by 53 points over 4 games. Your team is better this year than last, no one says they aren't, but they're only now reaching the level of those Hawks.