Markelle Fultz Discussion III: For Fultz and going forward (see 2017 draft thread for trade discussion)

[gdog2004]

Jumper looked fine even being a funny one.

I've come to realize just how little the general public knows about shooting, forms, and which ones are good, which are bad, and which look good. It really is astonishing. You'd think these people never watched an NBA game in their lives. I guess that's what happens in the era of social media and technology. No one goes outside or plays sports anymore, so you have these wannabes who never picked up a basketball in their entire lives trying to break down a dude's form. It's cringe-worthy to say the least.

You see these frauds all over social media and the interwebs micro-analyze players forms like they're some expert when they have no idea what in the hell they're even talking about. "The elbow needs to be here and the angle needs to be there" lol dorks.

There are like 2 perfect orgasmic looking forms in the entire NBA. Every other form is unique and has their own quirks. You can find technical flaws in anything. At the end of the day only one thing matters: does it go in? That's it. When Fultz comes back, if nothing else, it'll expose the wannabes who want to give off the facade of knowing ball from those who actually do.

Can't wait to see the nerdy blog posts with GIFs analyzing the form frame by frame from dudes who never stepped foot on a basketball court in their entire lives.

Completely disagree. Process matters more than outcome in an attempt to optimize the performance, analyzing the process and improving it will result in a better outcome in the long term.
Just because this shot from Fultz went in, doesn't mean that the next 50 will. Analyzing the process can help you predict the future outcome better.

There's indeed no perfect form, every body is different and players have own preferences. However, completely inconsistent shooting motions or shooting forms which cause a lot of tension in the body lead to poor results in the majority of the cases.

Can't believe that someone with a username "LongLiveHinkie" has the opinion that short term result is the only thing that matters.

Your missing his point. He's basically saying that theres a bunch of nerds on the internet analyzing Fultz form, saying its wrong because of this and that and that they couldn't possibly know its wrong because they themselves have no clue how to actually shoot a basketball with consistency because they never played the sport on any level. He's not basing it upon ONE shot going in, hes saying if most of Markelles shots look funky but they go in, who cares. That's how I read what he's saying.

[Eyeamok]

I’d be perfectly content if Fultz came back averaging 10-12 points, with 2-3 asts/reb. Expecting baby steps, really just wanna see flashes of what his game will be later on and improvement in his shot form and confidence. Also good defense would be the icing on the cake. Anything more would be a bonus.

All I want to see is his shot back and to see him confidently chucking the ball. I want to see a little bit of cockiness and aggression from him offensively. Other than that I liked what I saw from him in terms of his defense, hustle, willingness to move the ball earlier this season. He did show he can be a team player when his shot is off or he is not right. However, for my sanity I just want to see him come out knock down a 3 pointer or two with confidence and show me he can make a free throw without giving me heart palpitations.

And don't forget the interview after the game.

Interviewer :"So Markelle how does it feel to be back and get your first double double?"
Markelle: "I just want to say Hi to my mom, hi to the doctors in Kentucky and to the haters I love you too!"

I would gladly eat crow at that point "In the process".

[Kolkmania]

Jumper looked fine even being a funny one.

I've come to realize just how little the general public knows about shooting, forms, and which ones are good, which are bad, and which look good. It really is astonishing. You'd think these people never watched an NBA game in their lives. I guess that's what happens in the era of social media and technology. No one goes outside or plays sports anymore, so you have these wannabes who never picked up a basketball in their entire lives trying to break down a dude's form. It's cringe-worthy to say the least.

You see these frauds all over social media and the interwebs micro-analyze players forms like they're some expert when they have no idea what in the hell they're even talking about. "The elbow needs to be here and the angle needs to be there" lol dorks.

There are like 2 perfect orgasmic looking forms in the entire NBA. Every other form is unique and has their own quirks. You can find technical flaws in anything. At the end of the day only one thing matters: does it go in? That's it. When Fultz comes back, if nothing else, it'll expose the wannabes who want to give off the facade of knowing ball from those who actually do.

Can't wait to see the nerdy blog posts with GIFs analyzing the form frame by frame from dudes who never stepped foot on a basketball court in their entire lives.

Completely disagree. Process matters more than outcome in an attempt to optimize the performance, analyzing the process and improving it will result in a better outcome in the long term.
Just because this shot from Fultz went in, doesn't mean that the next 50 will. Analyzing the process can help you predict the future outcome better.

There's indeed no perfect form, every body is different and players have own preferences. However, completely inconsistent shooting motions or shooting forms which cause a lot of tension in the body lead to poor results in the majority of the cases.

Can't believe that someone with a username "LongLiveHinkie" has the opinion that short term result is the only thing that matters.

Your missing his point. He's basically saying that theres a bunch of nerds on the internet analyzing Fultz form, saying its wrong because of this and that and that they couldn't possibly know its wrong because they themselves have no clue how to actually shoot a basketball with consistency because they never played the sport on any level. He's not basing it upon ONE shot going in, hes saying if most of Markelles shots look funky but they go in, who cares. That's how I read what he's saying.

Yeah I get that, I was exaggerating with the one shot sample size. However how many shooters in the NBA score efficiently from behind the line with inconsistent shooting mechanics? Especially when we're trying to evaluate young players it makes just as much sense to me to look at their shooting mechanics instead of the actual result of ~100 attempts (a SS which is quite often).

Josh Jackson shot a great percentage from three last year, however those results weren't backed up with his mechanics. In the end of the day the shot went in, and according to LongLiveHinkie that's all what matters. Completely disagree with that.

Also I found the tone quite self-complacent. "Look at those nerds, sitting behind their computers, they know nothing about basketball". However there are plenty of successful trainers/scouts/GM's in the sports brand who were never capable sportsmen themselves.

[gdog2004]

Completely disagree. Process matters more than outcome in an attempt to optimize the performance, analyzing the process and improving it will result in a better outcome in the long term.
Just because this shot from Fultz went in, doesn't mean that the next 50 will. Analyzing the process can help you predict the future outcome better.

There's indeed no perfect form, every body is different and players have own preferences. However, completely inconsistent shooting motions or shooting forms which cause a lot of tension in the body lead to poor results in the majority of the cases.

Can't believe that someone with a username "LongLiveHinkie" has the opinion that short term result is the only thing that matters.

Your missing his point. He's basically saying that theres a bunch of nerds on the internet analyzing Fultz form, saying its wrong because of this and that and that they couldn't possibly know its wrong because they themselves have no clue how to actually shoot a basketball with consistency because they never played the sport on any level. He's not basing it upon ONE shot going in, hes saying if most of Markelles shots look funky but they go in, who cares. That's how I read what he's saying.

Yeah I get that, I was exaggerating with the one shot sample size. However how many shooters in the NBA score efficiently from behind the line with inconsistent shooting mechanics? Especially when we're trying to evaluate young players it makes just as much sense to me to look at their shooting mechanics instead of the actual result of ~100 attempts (a SS which is quite often).

Josh Jackson shot a great percentage from three last year, however those results weren't backed up with his mechanics. In the end of the day the shot went in, and according to LongLiveHinkie that's all what matters. Completely disagree with that.

Also I found the tone quite self-complacent. "Look at those nerds, sitting behind their computers, they know nothing about basketball". However there are plenty of successful trainers/scouts/GM's in the sports brand who were never capable sportsmen themselves.

My take on it is, its not that the nerds know nothing about basketball, its that a good many of them don't know anything specifically about SHOOTING because they have not done it themselves and yet here some are breaking it down like they have been there and done that. I have played basketball my whole life...(which consists of up to high school and coaching some kids) and I can tell you 100% there are NO shooting coaches who teach people correct shooting form and can't do it themselves. They may not be able to do it cardio vascular wise in a game with a bunch of young men, but what they teach, they know how to do and can demonstrate. After all, would you listen to someone tell you how to shoot if they didnt know how to do it themselves ? or for that matter, do ANYTHING without the ability to do it ?

[LongLiveHinkie]

Pretty much every shooter in the NBA has inconsistent shooting mechanics. Players shoot differently situationally. Coming off screens, spotting up, pull ups, etc. It's almost impossible to have the same exact form and mechanics every time you shoot. Some are more inconsistent than others, but Fultz is a rookie, so he's not going to be as consistent as a 10 year vet.

Anyway my overall point is kinda like gdog said. You have people not qualified to break down shooting mechanics breaking down shooting mechanics thinking they know what is right and wrong. Also, sometimes shooting isn't an exact science. Some players just shoot better with funky looking forms. It's what they're comfortable with. Might be something innate in them, I don't know. I think breaking down Fultz's jumper is a total waste of time. Aesthetically you want his form to be beautiful, and maybe it will be, but at the end of the day I just want him to be a great shooter. If he shoots well, then what it looks like is irrelevant.

[TFK]

I’d give anything to be able to channel Denny Green in 3 months and say “he is who we thought he was”

[James40]

I’d give anything to be able to channel Denny Green in 3 months and say “he is who we thought he was”

The old Dennis Green line huh.

[HartfordWhalers]

The idea that someone could not know what good form is supposed to be because they haven't shot is absurd garbage.

I would also assume that the guys assumed to have never shot have indeed shot a bunch, but that is an assumption just like the one running the opposite direction.

[76ciology]

Pompey said he's sources says he's not ready yet. Needs a practice or two. Not yet that in shape.

Got me thinking.. Why did we fly him to London eating fish and chips (alternative to chicken ans fries) rather than spend his time in philly to practice and get in shape? Maybe we really arent rushing him and would rather build long term chemistry huh?

[cksdayoff]

^sight seeing

[Sixerscan]

Pompey said he's sources says he's not ready yet. Needs a practice or two. Not yet that in shape.

Got me thinking.. Why did we fly him to London eating fish and chips (alternative to chicken ans fries) rather than spend his time in philly to practice and get in shape? Maybe we really arent rushing him and would rather build long term chemistry huh?

He's practicing with the team?

They want to see him play 5 on 5 against NBA players enough that he's comfortable. They aren't going to have another chance to really practice after the Toronto game until the all star break.

[76ciology]

Pompey said he's sources says he's not ready yet. Needs a practice or two. Not yet that in shape.

Got me thinking.. Why did we fly him to London eating fish and chips (alternative to chicken ans fries) rather than spend his time in philly to practice and get in shape? Maybe we really arent rushing him and would rather build long term chemistry huh?

He's practicing with the team?

They want to see him play 5 on 5 against NBA players enough that he's comfortable. They aren't going to have another chance to really practice after the Toronto game until the all star break.

The team seems to be just doing light practices. While he can work on his shooting and conditioning better in Philly. Oh well.. Honestly guessing also.

[ivysixer2000]

^sight seeing

Yeah probably never been to Europe, why leave him home cause I figure he wants to go.

He's 19, rather him be happy.

[Kolkmania]

Read on Twitter

edit: Already several videos of Fultz warming up on Twitter, just use the search function.I

Read on Twitter

Markelle in the background shooting off the dribble. I try to be positive, but not acting like I'm impressed with the results after months of training.

[Ericb5]

Pompey said he's sources says he's not ready yet. Needs a practice or two. Not yet that in shape.

Got me thinking.. Why did we fly him to London eating fish and chips (alternative to chicken ans fries) rather than spend his time in philly to practice and get in shape? Maybe we really arent rushing him and would rather build long term chemistry huh?

Because he is a member of the team, and this is a team building week, and he is practicing with the team.

It would be strange for him not to be included, and would indicate that he was farther away.


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[MR28]

I'm salty as ****; this kid really broke the **** out of his shot.

[OFWGKTA]

I'm salty as ****; this kid really broke the **** out of his shot.

Same thing happened to Smart. His rookie year he shot 33.5%, not great, but definitely blows the 27.5% he's been shooting since then out of the water. Anyways, he changed his form after his rookie year and it's been inconsistent ever since. Every now and then he's spot on with the "new" form and is lights out for a few games, but often times the form is like a cross between the old and new. I'm not saying Fultz form is gonna be as **** as it is at this moment, but his shot may never be what it could have been.

[lpennington]

I gotta admit I'm a little concerned seeing what Markelle was doing in Pompey's video from today. His UW release point what much higher. I will not waste more energy worrying until I see the ultimate test of his jumper in a real game.

[Mrcrockpots]

I gotta admit I'm a little concerned seeing what Markelle was doing in Pompey's video from today. His UW release point what much higher. I will not waste more energy worrying until I see the ultimate test of his jumper in a real game.

It looks like he's pushing the ball as if his normal shot don't have the distance to make it to the rim from 3. Anyone else see that?

[gdog2004]

The idea that someone could not know what good form is supposed to be because they haven't shot is absurd garbage.

I would also assume that the guys assumed to have never shot have indeed shot a bunch, but that is an assumption just like the one running the opposite direction.

So you would take advice on shooting from someone who has never shot before ?
Would you take lessons from a driving instructor if they have never driven before but have watched good drivers drive ?
of note I'm not saying everyone who comments on Fultz shooting has never shot, Im sure plenty have. But I am sure there are plenty who have not as well.